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File: 141347826233.jpg (162.99 KB, 960x538, mjrJ3_zpse0bd1a4b.jpg)

The bronies are keeping me from liking MLP 36781280[View All]

I just want to like the five key episodes for what they did, and not bother with the S4 finale and the way it discarded the Mane Five's efforts to earn their keys, in-exchange for Twilight's over-empowerment. Unfortunately, too many bronies have mixed feelings about the five key episodes, disliked the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle, but constantly praised the Twilight/Tirek fight scene for making MLP dark and edgy, like all of those Dark Age comics from the 90's, even though the Mane Five were victimized and disposed of along the way.

This is most especially true with Tommy Oliver, aka Brony Curious. He liked Rarity Takes Manehattan and Pinkie Pride, but ruthlessly criticized Breezies, Rainbow Falls, and Leap of Faith. He also praised the fight scene in that finale, but disliked the way the Rainbow Power was presented, namely as the same thing as the Elements of Harmony, but more spruced up.

In other words, I'm in the minority of opinions when it comes to the S4-long story-arc, and I need help dealing with this.

Last edited at Thu, Oct 16th, 2014 09:52

310 posts and 138 image replies omitted. Click View to see all.

36782069

>>36782064
It's okay. Twilight's friends did go through their own key episodes, after all... despite the fact that too many people are constantly calling them out for their "execution" compared to their extreme love for Twilight's Kingdom and its bloated fight scene.

Last edited at Thu, Oct 23rd, 2014 12:15

Geldon 36782070

File: 141409172651.jpg (58.44 KB, 800x600, Xena_Gabrielle.jpg)

>>36782064
Maybe, but I figure if he's going to find any lasting contentment in watching any show, it really ought to be good enough. Because look at the premises we've got here:
* Mane character seems to get central spotlight in season intros and finales.
* But I like the other characters!
* What if the mane character is going to replace the other characters completely?!!
It's a stupid line of thought. Did Kirk replace Spock? Did Luke Skywalker replace Han Solo? Did Xena replace Gabriell? NO! These were important support characters, and main characters in their own right. That is the mane six of MLP:FIM.

About the only good example we've got is Goku in DBZ, but what do you expect for a manga that's based on getting ridiculously powerful? DBZ is the exception, it defines a genre where raising above your peers is a thing, but that's not the norm.

>But I don't waaaant Twilight Sparkle to be the main of the mane six, I want [insert favorite mane six] to be the main of the mane six.
Open your goddamn eyes. It's been going on since the pilot in season 1. Twilight Sparkle was hand-designed by Faust herself to the main of the mane six. The good news for you is that this doesn't necessarily diminish her friends, it just means that they're the Gabrielle to her Xena. A lot of people enjoyed Gabrielle better, and that's just fine.

Last edited at Thu, Oct 23rd, 2014 12:17

Fluttershutter!vBKzsttvbU 36782071

File: 141409197540.png (120.75 KB, 193x299, no one cuts forever.png)

>>36782070
Oh boy, here we go, some "Twilicorn is the main character," I'm surprised this took so long.

I don't even have the drive to argue about it, what a sad thing. I'm sure the implied "I disagree" will be enough since we both know neither of our opinions are going to change from the potential argument.

36782072

>>36782070
Which was why we have the five key episodes, and I can't like them without a whole bunch of people going on about their "lackluster execution".

Anonymous 36782073

>>36782072
You mean in places where discussion is had, there are people who have criticisms for an episode you personally enjoyed? You could avoid that by just not going to those sorts of places if other people's opinions affect you that much.

Or if you're enjoying episodes in your own home and people are barging in telling you to cut that out, just call the cops.

Geldon 36782074

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>>36782071
Now you're catching on to my style of Internet argument: the recognition of futility in changing anyone's mind anywhere.

But I don't really like the idea of fortifying my argumentative position, as those walls tend to trap one inside. Being a stubborn mule accomplishes dick. I want to base my assertions on something reasonable. What external information am I operating upon here?

* A certain character was the main character/conflict resolver for virtually every episode of season 1.
* A certain character was the main character/conflict resolver for every season intro and finale.
* A certain character was the main character/conflict resolver in both Equestria Girls mov- actually, in Rainbow Rocks, I'd say Sunset Shimmer did the heavy lifting, but everybody treated Twlight Sparkle like that was her job.

To look at that and hold the argument, "Nooo, Twilight Sparkle is not really the main character/conflict resolver, and something must be wrong with the series if she ever remotely looks like she might be" shows a far greater level of stubbornness than my own.

But the thing is, you don't have to be afraid that means your favorite mane six character is going to be pushed out of the limelight. Each one has important roles to the story, and we've plenty of evidence to establish that being a bestie to the main character in this series elevates a character so much that they get episodes of their own where Twilight Sparkle isn't even around anymore! This is not DBZ balance, this is Star Trek/Star Wars/Xena balance. How is this a problem of yours anymore?

Last edited at Thu, Oct 23rd, 2014 12:39

36782075

>>36782074
Again, the key episodes. It's why we had the key episodes, because they gave Twilight's five friends importance to the S4-long story-arc, as well as character-development of their very own.

Geldon 36782076

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zzSqL--d_I
>>36782075
If you're trying to limit this to just key episodes, you're so deep in No True Scotsman territory that it's not even funny.

The series operates as a whole, not as the key cherry picked sections you use to support your preferred brand of self-delusion. Really, noticing you did this should have been your first warning sign.

To an extent, you could say I'm doing this by pointing out the episodes in which Twilight Sparkle was given the lead means she must be the main character. But I would say this is justified because the episodes in question were quite deliberately picked by the developers as the framing episodes of the series. The first episode of the series. The first and last episode of each season. The movies. If you want some key episodes, these are obviously them.

Last edited at Thu, Oct 23rd, 2014 12:57

36782077

>>36782076
Not until you stop making a huge deal out of Twilight's Kingdom, its bloated fight scene, and Twilight's Super Saiyan bad-assery at the expense of her friends.

Nº 441 !fOINzMA0KU 36782078

>>36782074
The problem is less about Twilight being the main character and more about Twilight being the only character.

Season 4 was fine with this, but in Season 3, it seemed like Twilight was 20 times more competent than all her friends put together, only she was allowed to actually accomplish something in a plot. Look at Crystal Empire, in which the Mane Six are basically shoved to the side so that Twilight can have her arc where she learns about saving the day.

I'm fine with Twilight being the mainest character, what I'm not fine with is her friends being demoted to supporting cast. Friendship is Magic, Twilight should be nothing without her friends to back her up.

Fluttershutter!vBKzsttvbU 36782079

File: 141409446312.png (1.09 MB, 418x1964, cutmanfall.png)

>>36782077
You know not everyone is doing that. Plenty of people find McCarthy's fanfiction where Twilicorn goes Super Sand and saves da day frum da bad guise to be dumb.

Geldon 36782080

File: 141409475087.png (946.99 KB, 1000x1000, 2001 - thermometer shocked _D …)

>>36782077
You cannot forward the assertions, "its bloated fight scene, and Twilight's Super Saiyan bad-assery at the expense of her friends" in the same sentence that you're saying I'm the one "making a big deal" about Twilight's Kingdom without establishing it is you who are making a big deal out of it. That is only your interpretation of what happened in that episode, it's not literally what happened, and the person who can't tell the difference is the one who is certain the sky is falling.

To engage in a bit of ad hominem, I'm beginning to understand why you've been banned from five forums already. You're not the most self-deluded fellow I've seen around here, but to make the mistake the previous paragraph without being aware of it is enough proof to me that you're there.

You can tire us all out with your incessant replies until none of us have the energy to reply to you anymore (as for me, I put myself on a time limit with leechblock for FireFox) but it won't make you right. You were never universally right about this, and you never will be. You were only subjectively right, via your lopsided interpretation of Twilight's Kingdom.

So am I. My advice to you: learn to see more the value in more than one subjective interpretation at a time. As human beings, we're dreadfully limited creatures. Many of us go our entire lives without learning to do this, and are comfortably deluded in everything we do as a result. But if you can prop up a second perspective, you will get closer to the truth that you are now. If you could prop up all the perspectives, you'd have to be God, so you should always acknowledge we're all at least a little ignorant about all things.

You cannot come here and start a thread where you claim it is problematic others hold conflicting opinions and pretend you are anywhere near having accomplished anything other than accepting one single limited perspective, that of your own. You've opened your mouth and removed all doubt.

Last edited at Thu, Oct 23rd, 2014 13:13

Crimson Risk !RISkQqf4EM 36782081

>>36782079
+1, I thought that scene was stupid as hell and could have easily been omitted. But it's not a huge deal.

The Scyphozoa!SCIPIOB65. 36782084

>>36782079
>>36782081
so are we talking about the part where she failed or

Crimson Risk !RISkQqf4EM 36782085

>>36782084
No, just that giant laser battle DBZ fight scenes don't really belong in MLP, but whatever.
I guess they always did have some sort of lasers in defeating big villains, but it felt like it actually took itself too seriously or something this time.
Like I said though, not a huge deal, just kinda stupid. I hope it doesn't become a trend, but it probably will.
But hey it's also a cartoon show for kids, I personally can't fault it for being a bit stupid sometimes.
Maybe it's actually the FANS who take it too seriously...

Last edited at Thu, Oct 23rd, 2014 14:42

36782093

>>36782055

Maybe that should tell you something about what you are doing.

>>36782077

YOU are the one making a big deal out of it!

Unlikeable Pony (element of being banned. again) 36782119

File: 141413125882.jpg (147.91 KB, 1000x750, pinkie_nope.jpg)

>>36781608
>>36781609


Thank you very much! bleh, been a bit hectic on my end so haven't been able to check my e-mail till today, i'll download them tommorrow and read them :)
(fucking pissed at sister showing up out of the blue and basically saying "hey, heard you had a vacation this week, babysit my crotchspawn for me so I can visit family while I'm in town).



>>36781610


Dude, don't be a douche. Flutters is a great guy and one of my favorite people on the chan.


>>36781634


I do have to say, Fluttershy bawling felt really well done in that you could feel alot more emotion out of that scene then normal. no Comedy, no silliness, it was kind of a serious sadness moment.

like, I didn't feel that Discord telling her how sorry he was later on felt nearly as heartfelt as the delivery of andrea's lines there.


>>36781686


I think that the mane six sacrificing themselves could work well if it wasn't permanent, and was set up well.

specifically, if they had the other five staying behind or doing something to Save twilight and help her along to her goal with the party Dwindling SPECIFICALLY to show that twilight's utterly Helpless without the aid of her friends could be a good lesson.

Then at the end when she reaches the macguffin have her give a speech to the villain where she realizes that she doesn't feel triumphant or anything, but rather the only reason she reached the macguffin was because of her friends. Have her sadness or feelings for her friends end up activating the macguffn to Return her friends to live and then Defeat the villain, like how in Breath of fire 2 the Ultra secret "magic" that you can get is just realizing how important one's friends are and that no matter how strong you get you'll always need friends, which brings Ryu's friend's back to life.

>>36782057


The fact that DBZ abridged actually deconstructs this by pointing out just how BAD that would be to someone's mental state really makes me like that series more.
Goku telling him "you're my friend" to try and keep him from committing suicide in the future was actually rather touching.

36782124

>>36782078
Which was why the Mane Five had their own key episodes in Season Four. They all had character-development and roles to play in the S4-long story-arc.

It's just too bad they were victimized and depowered as an excuse to demonstrate how much of an all-powerful monster Tirek was, and to get to a bloated fight scene that only demonstrated a huge power gap between Twilight and her friends. Plus, the five key episodes kept getting mixed reactions galore, even though I found nothing wrong with them compared to Twilight's Kingdom, which again traded the disempowerment of Twilight's friends for the empowerment of Twilight herself.

Last edited at Fri, Oct 24th, 2014 07:20

Anonymous 36782129

>>36782055
>I was banned from five entire message boards, four of them MLP message boards. I was also banned from commenting on Equestria Daily, and I was blocked by Tommy Oliver/Brony Curious on Tumblr.

This is more than enough of an indication to stop replying to OP. He doesn't seem to know when to quit, and will not change his mind no matter what anyone says.

Stop feeding the parasprite, kthx.

36782141

>>36782129
That's because I had to deal withy you changing my mind and telling me to hate the key episodes but love the finale for its fight scene! You can't tell me what I can and cannot like or consider good!

Fluttershutter!vBKzsttvbU 36782148

File: 141417929969.png (33.59 KB, 578x378, 8-man gang bang.png)

>>36782141
>I can't change my mind because you changed my mind! Don't try to change my mind!

You know, if you're such a big fan of the key episodes, you could, you know, like them and then argue why they're good while also thinking they're good.

In fact, saying things you think are true is a very good way to make your argument strong, as opposed to saying things you believe the opposite of. Unless you're trying to score brownie points, but if that's your intention there are a lot of problems with your approach there as well.

36782153

>>36782148
Then let me defend them again, and even compare them to Twilight's Kingdom.

The five key episodes gave Twilight's friends meaningful character-development based on their Elements of Harmony. Fluttershy, for example, had to learn about being strict without losing her kindness. Meanwhile, Applejack had to help her grandmother find happiness without any intervention from Flim and Flam's placebo drink, just so that she could stay true to her element of Honesty. Rarity had to stay true to her generosity without letting it manipulate her, and Rainbow Dash had to stay loyal to friends who care for her over a team of fliers who were better than hers'. Finally, Pinkie Pie had to realize that other ponies' fun and laughter were more important than her own pride. All of those moments resulted in them teaching somepony else about their Elements, and they received keys as a result.

Hell, if anything, I might as well go so far as to compare the key episodes to the loyalty missions from Mass Effect 2, or the social links from Persona 4. Both the loyalty missions and party-member social links were party-member/squadmate-specific storylines that all eventually intersected into a climactic finale, whether it's the suicide mission in ME2, or the True Ending in Persona 4. Same for the six storylines in Sonic Adventure 1, or the five character-specific stories in Odin Sphere, or Golden Sun and the way it told its two-part story through both Isaac and Felix's opposing perspectives.

However, it was when Twilight went through her own key episode, that the Mane Five's were rendered meaningless by their disempowerment and Twilight's over-empowerment. Not even the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle could salvage that finale from that particular problem, because it was at the last minute and was included to justify the victimization of the Mane Five and the over-empowerment of Twilight Sparkle.

Last edited at Fri, Oct 24th, 2014 14:24

Fluttershutter!vBKzsttvbU 36782154

File: 141418561409.png (626.45 KB, 798x505, cutrock.png)

>>36782153
Do you believe that wholeheartedly despite the opinion you wrote not being unanimous?

If so, then there shouldn't be a problem and you can enjoy the series as much as you want, since you believe what you just wrote and value your opinion.

36782156

>>36782154
Yes.

Also, how was that not unanimous? Was it because of the five key episodes' "execution"? Or, was it the way I described the Season Four finale?

Fluttershutter!vBKzsttvbU 36782157

>>36782156
What I mean is, the fandom doesn't unanimously agree with you. Nor does any fandom unanimously agree with anything.

So, to answer your question, the key episodes and the Season 4 finale are both not unanimously thought of.

36782192

>>36782157
Except for the fact that they are episodes. We managed to agree on that.

Anonymous 36782218

>>36782141
>You can't tell me what I can and cannot like or consider good!

And yet, you're telling other people that what they like is wrong and bad.

◔ᴗ◔

36782232

>>36782218
Okay, so I'm some paranoid, delusional psycho who fears becoming an outcast, and so tries to force an opinion down other people's throats out of fear of them.

And, out of that paranoia, I come up with this delusion that the bronies have given up on the show's friendship themes by murdering Twilight's friends, making Twilight overpowered, and making the rest of the entire show be Dragon Ball Z from this point on. And, it's all based on them liking the fight scene, considering the key episodes mixed, and disliking the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle...

Really, I just don't know what to do with myself, anymore. I mean, there are plenty of other franchises that did this whole "friendship and teamwork" spiel just as much as MLP, such as the Avengers, Power Rangers, and the huge majority of party-based RPG's. But MLP is just too awesome to let go of!

36782237

>>36782232
Then just stay off of the message boards.

Fluttershutter!vBKzsttvbU 36782239

File: 141426281929.jpg (163.33 KB, 1280x720, Long Live the King.jpg)

>>36782232
>Really, I just don't know what to do with myself, anymore.

Just don't let anyone's opinions get to you. And, if you can't do that, just take a break from imageboards and forums until you're able to. And for future reference, if you know you won't like an episode or a show or any such for its subject matter, you don't have to watch it. I skipped about a third of Season 4's episodes because I knew or heard what they consisted of, and I'm better off having not watched those three-or-so hours of content since I wouldn't've enjoyed it. Would've been better if I spent those three hours doing something other than bitching about other things on the Internet, but my point stands.

36782251

>>36782239
Then let me ask you this question:

What would happen if Tirek just murdered Twilight's friends, even if she willingly gives up the alicorn magic? And what if afterward, the rest of the entire series was just that one fight between Twilight and Tirek? Would that be even worse than the Rainbow Power, Rainbow Castle, and your worst key episodes?

I mean, DBZ's fights dragged on for too many chapters/episodes, and the same went for Naruto and Bleach. All three manga had villains so invincible and unstoppable, that they didn't even have any weaknesses at all, and took too many chapters/episodes to be defeated as a result. At least with One Piece, the villains were much more fallible, and didn't take an unnecessarily long period of time to be defeated. Sosuke Aizen? Madara Uchiha? They were so all-powerful and almost immortal, that even though it was supposed to raise the stakes, it instead reduced the fights with these villains into tedious, repetitive chores.

And that's what would've described Twilight's fight with Tirek, especially if Meghan McCarthy went so far as to actually murder Twilight's friends. It could've dragged for the rest of the entire series, thus destroying everything that made MLP good in the first place, perhaps more so than the one-minute fight actually did.

Last edited at Sat, Oct 25th, 2014 13:40

Fluttershutter!vBKzsttvbU 36782252

File: 141426998423.png (12.93 KB, 320x352, 1403055610729.png)

>>36782251
>Would that be even worse than the Rainbow Power, Rainbow Castle, and your worst key episodes?

Yes. I don't know why that's even a question to ask, of course it would be. I just find it unrealistic; the rest of the mane six may not hold the #1 spot in toy sales but Hasbro isn't going to let them be axed because they do make money.

Do you think I'm one of those guys that shills McCarthy and Twilicorn? You seem to act like I don't find Twilicorn to be worst pony.

36782255

>>36782251
>What would happen if Tirek just murdered Twilight's friends, even if she willingly gives up the alicorn magic?

Then the show would be over and it would win the award for the most depressing series ever. The End.

Fluttershutter!vBKzsttvbU 36782260

>>36782255
And then Madoka and Eva fans would praise it as being deep and artsy and all the mane six deserved it.

36782288

>>36782252
That's because Twilight's Kingdom was constantly being praised for its "genre transcending" (and I mean it loosely) fight scene, but then people are like, "I hate the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle because of their designs and purposes in the story." Meanwhile, the five key episodes backing up the finale were just mixed, with three of them considered the worst, and the other two considered the best.

As a result, I had to come up with those ridiculous assumptions that either Meghan McCarthy or the bronies had given up on the show's friendship themes, just to turn it into DBZ, both aesthetically as well as thematically (as in no friendship and teamwork at all, but rather racial supremacy of the alicorns/saiyans at the expense of almost every other species).

But really, if I can't mention these assumptions, then what am I supposed to believe, aside from this whole "execution" business?

Last edited at Sun, Oct 26th, 2014 10:37

Fluttershutter!vBKzsttvbU 36782289

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>>36782288
McCarthy has a Twilicorn fetish. And probably a Twilicorn body pillow. We already have fucking racial supremacy because McCarthy never lets problems be solved non-magically, and some people on this site act like it's meant to be like that because "muh dystopian tyrannical headcanon."

Despite that, the show isn't going to turn into DBZ. McCarthy might violate it fifty other ways, but they aren't going to start killing off main characters unless toy sales absolutely tank.

36782292

>>36782289
Well, I'd rather that the Mane Five were equal to Twilight. Sure, they can't blow up stuff the same way as her, but they possess multitudes of other talents that differentiate themselves from her, and by extension from each other. It's why we had the key episodes, to show that even though the Mane Five were disempowered and victimized by Tirek, they at least earned their own keys by resolving problems based on their Elements of Harmony, and teaching somepony else about their Elements as a result -- that is, go down fighting.

And yeah. Despite me calling the Mane Five victims, I've all of a sudden turned around and said that they earned their keys, and thus went down fighting! And before you ask why, I don't really know, myself.

36782294

File: 141434827522.png (147.99 KB, 377x459, 624166__safe_spoiler-colon-s04…)

>>36782288
>That's because Twilight's Kingdom was constantly being praised for its "genre transcending" (and I mean it loosely) fight scene

No it wasn't. People thought it was new and different and exciting, but no one said 'genre transcending'. Got a source for that?

>then people are like, "I hate the Rainbow Power and Rainbow Castle because of their designs and purposes in the story."

Because Rainbow Power LOOKS silly but the CONCEPT of it is widely accepted.

And the same goes with Twilight's Castle, they think it is a gaudy crystal mess. ((See image for one person's idea of how it should have looked. Not much different, but the colors are now easier to look at.) But as before, the CONCEPT is still widely accepted.

>Meanwhile, the five key episodes backing up the finale were just mixed, with three of them considered the worst, and the other two considered the best.

OH dear God, people have different opinions, what a travesty! You can run a poll on the ratings of each of those episodes ten times and get ten different ideas.

36782438

>>36782294
The fight was superficially exciting, but as multitudes of people kept telling me, Twilight didn't even win that fight. She ended it in a draw, and by the time Tirek held all of her friends hostage, she willingly gave up the alicorn magic to save her friends, earning herself her final key from Discord in the process, just so that they could unlock Rainbow Power and use it to love and tolerate the shit out of Tirek.

Unfortunately, people kept saying that the fight scene was actually done better than the Rainbow Power, Rainbow Castle, and some of the five key episodes. That technically implied that Meghan McCarthy had given up on the show's friendship themes, just so that she could turn it into Dragon Ball Z. Now, I'm perfectly aware that there are people who constantly told me otherwise. But if that's the case, then what the hay am I supposed to believe, instead?

Last edited at Tue, Oct 28th, 2014 06:07

36782439

>>36782438
>Unfortunately, people kept saying that the fight scene was actually done better than the Rainbow Power, Rainbow Castle, and some of the five key episodes.
Who?

>That technically implied that Meghan McCarthy had given up on the show's friendship themes
No it doesn't.

>just so that she could turn it into Dragon Ball Z.
Does she even know what that show is?

> Now, I'm perfectly aware that there are people who constantly told me otherwise. But if that's the case, then what the hay am I supposed to believe, instead?
We don't care! Just stop bitching about things that don't exist.

36782596

>>36782439
>Who?

When you said, "who?", did you mean that no one said that the Twilight/Tirek fight was done better than the key episodes, the Rainbow Power, and the Rainbow Castle?

36782626

>>36782596
I don't remember it.

36782868

>>36782626
Also, you said that I could run ten different polls on the five key episodes, and receive ten different results.

Then what explained that Episode Battle poll on Equestria Daily? Breezies, Rainbow Falls, and Leap of Faith received the least votes out of those key episodes. Rarity Takes Manehattan took third place, while Pinkie Pride took second. But Twilight's Kingdom defeated all of them by a landslide, mostly because of that bloated fight scene that discarded the Mane Five in-exchange for a Super Saiyan bad-ass Twilight Sparkle.

36782871

>>36782868
Everything you said was very well grounded, and a very good question.. right up to this:

>mostly because of that bloated fight scene that discarded the Mane Five in-exchange for a Super Saiyan bad-ass Twilight Sparkle.

YOU do not know why those people voted the way they voted. So stop assuming you do.

And that isn't even a very good counter to my statement as it is ONE POLL. Not all of Bronydom visits Equestria Daily and does it's polls. For example: ME. I saw it and didn't care about keeping up with it. I just want news and move on.

36782875

>>36782871
Wait. Are you saying that people disliking Breezies, Leap of Faith, and Rainbow Falls were grounded in reality? As in everyone hated these episodes?

Because I liked those episodes but hated the finale. AJ, RD, and Fluttershy all received character-development and relevancy to the S4-long story-arc, alongside Pinkie Pie and Rarity, long before all five of them were discarded and disposed of to make way for Twilight's power levels.

Last edited at Tue, Nov 4th, 2014 11:32

36782877

>>36782875
You must be delusional! I said nothing of the sort!

You had ONE POLL made up mainly of people who visit EqD and GIVE A FUCK. It is not even scientific in the slightest! Stop using it as a basis for your madness!

Anonymous 36785343

>>36781280
Are you Thomas?

Anonymous 36785344

>>36781280
Are you Thomas?>>36781280

36785346

Are you Thomas?>>36781280

36785349

>>36781293
Are you Thomas

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