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File: 130672083731.png (131.25 KB, 277x337, 130246792285.png)

Trixie thread Rainbow!Dash.YvksECountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488956[Last 50 Posts]

>I'd like to address my opinion on the trixie episode, as i saw it again recently.

As i saw it, the whole Trixie thing was kind of a misunderstanding. Trixie was never a showoff.

She arrives at this town, promoting her magic show. She says that she's going to perform magic tricks never seen by pony eyes. Of course this was to keep the audience in a mood, as this is a magic show. She wasn't going to say "Um.. i'm going to do some magic i hope you like it".

The main six then start saying that one shouldn't be saying that one is best than the other and that you shouldn't be a showoff when:

1)She isn't being a showoff, she's just using her talents for a purpose (magic shows)
2)She hasn't said that she's better than other ponies.

Then RD starts to boo her and the whole thing starts. Apparently the whole cast got butthurt, because, as you see, the other ponies always seem amused and happy by the show.

So, my point is: Trixie was forced to act in a harsh way by the main cast.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488957

That makes some sense, but what about the nonsense about "I defeated an ursa major", etc.? I mean, you can put on a target shooting show without telling everybody that you were on the team that killed Osama bin Laden.

Carnifex!BRistlePpkCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488958

riiiiiight and because of that she keeps that attitude the whole rest of the episode?
i do not think so.
also, attacking your opponent is really bad form. (she could've made a more beautiful dress than rarity instead of messing up her hair f.ex. - if she could)

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488959

Showmanship. I assure you that whenever a magician says he is the greatest ever or that he learn this trick from a series of super-secret-ninja-shaolin-monk-turtles he doesn't actually mean it, he is just using a hyperbole so that he can create am aura of grandeur around what you see.

Country code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488960

For the sake of keeping her magic show floating she had to say something, but she was hardly forced to act the way she did.

You're correct in that the mane six shouldn't have heckled in the first place, but being able to manage heckling is a part of the live stage; She didn't handle it very well. Additionally, most of her tricks when she invited the neigh-sayers on stage were antagonistic. Showbiz or not, there's many ways that act could have been both entertaining and not humiliating to the guests on stage.

That said, the most common reaction by many stand up performers is actually a lot worse than trixie. I won't post links to that here, just look up heckling and follow it towards the butt-end of the internet. >_>

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488961

RD has a habit of bringing out the worst in situations. But Trixie hopefully learned from the experience.

Dewdrop DazzleCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488962

...Then why is she a colossal bitch for the rest of the episode too?

The Mailpony Always Knocks TwiceCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488964

File: 130672464168.jpg (75.16 KB, 800x655, 130192635862.jpg)

The way I see it, Trixie was treated badly. Sure the Ursa Major thing was a lie but she lied to draw in a crowd. Most entertainers have to boast about themselves or they will never make enough money to live off of so she used the Ursa Major story because it was something incredible and it would be very unlikely to be proved otherwise. Rainbow Dash, Apple Jack, Spike, and Rarity started heckling her while she was performing. Now a lot of you will say she went overboard but that's because she had to. She has to prove she's better than everyone else to get money and the best and quickest way is to humiliate them into submission. Not only will you make them shut up with little effort but if done right, the crowd will be on your side as well which means more profit. She now has to keep up the persona because she will be doing another show in Ponyville and it would draw in a bigger crowd.

Now when the 2 hillbillies bring the Ursa Minor into town, Trixie could have fled town immediately. Instead, she tries to take it down knowing full well she most likely cannot. She also admits the Ursa Major story was a lie. Now I know some of you will be all like "but then she ran away like a bitch". Well, why would you stay? You just admitted you can't beat an Ursa Minor, another unicorn has just proven she's much stronger than you, you'd probably get blamed for the Ursa Minor, and worst of all for a traveling performer, they'd probably want their money back. Leaving was the correct choice to do. Granted you can never visit that town again without ridicule and your reputation will take a hit but at least you can keep living for a while longer.

tl;dr: Trixie was acting the only way you should as a traveling performer to make a living

MintyRest!xMcCHESToYCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488965

File: 130672465231.jpg (100.02 KB, 1280x720, snapshot20110529200353.jpg)

>>2488962

It's all about maintaining stage presence. She's has to stay in character when dealing with marks. I mean the audience.
She's flash and show and a touch of magic on the side.

For the first few minutes, I hoped the reveal was going to be that she wasn't a unicorn.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488966

If we simply look at the events, then sure, it's possible Trixie was misunderstood and wouldn't allow her stage presence to drop even when off-stage - a true showpony.

But that would be foalishly ignoring the context of what thr creators of the show clearly intended the episode to be: a lesson that there's a difference between being talented and being a showoff. It was necessary for Trixie to provide the example of the haughty showoff and so, by necessity, she was every bit in the wrong as the mane cast perceived.

AnsiCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488967

>>2488964

While humilation is the most common tactic to deal with heckling, it doesn't really justify the practice. In addition to her showmanship she does have more magic than given credit for; The roses I suspect aren't merely slight of hand, and despite the cartoonish, elastic nature of the atmosphere bending a rainbow is easier thought of than done. She *could* have wowed both the mane six and the crowd, without resorting to humilation. I'm sure of it.

On the other hand, your right, while her solution to her problem was bitchy, it was not her that provoked the incident. If they had just shut up and enjoyed the show, it wouldn't have come to that.

Snips and Snails bringing the minor might still have happened though.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488968

>>2488966
I frankly didn't see this as the strongest way to carry out this lesson.... mainly because I always saw trixie as being attack by 5 very bitchy ponies rather than being a show-off.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488969

>>2488967
They are fanboys, they always end up causing horrible disasters.

Mooshi!GrAVitY3XgCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488970

Holy new perspective, Batman! When you really focus, it appears it was the main cast who started off with a nasty "Who does she think she is?!" attitude. Like when friends gossip about someone and then you have that one friend (Dash) that just HAS to be rude loud enough for the other party to hear it.

That isn't to excuse Trixie's own attitude, but she's an entertainer. Everything about a magician is stage presence. I mean..it's a magic show...over the top comes with the turf. Like any performers, when you have a heckler, that can ruin their mood. Some play it off and others rage. Care to guess where Trixie falls? Looking back on it, it looks more or less "This pony is rude! I must do something to keep their attention.." and so Trixie resorts to playing dirty and even overexaggurating to not lose the crowd. Unfortunetly, she got too caught up in the fabrication, it blew up when Inuyasha and Bling Bling boy lol if you got that brought an Ursa Minor into Ponyville...which Spike is somewhat responsable for since he treated Trixie's magic with the same seriousness as Twilight's.

Look at her cutie mark for Celestia sake. It screams magic performer! Twilight's magic is different. It's not about flashy tricks to wow a crowd, it's more a technical type of magic.

Dewdrop DazzleCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488971

Wow, this thread is really making me rethink my whole stance on Trixie. I absolutely hated her since the first words I saw her speak on-screen. But rewatching it DOES look like the mane cast are just being bitches. I mean, no other pony in the crowd seemed to care about Trixie's big-talk, so you can't really say that what she was doing was that offensive/annoying in context, unless you assume the rest of Ponyville has the personality of Fluttershy and is unable to speak up.

I've never seen a magician be an asshole, they at least come off charming with the hyperbole. I still think she's a major bitch though, and really lame for lying about the Ursa Major. It was really pretty stupid of her from a business standpoint.

AnsiCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488972

>>2488970

While Spike is clearly biased, he isn't heckling nor did he outright suggest that they should bring a Ursa Major in for Trixie to defeat. Inasmuch as it gave Snips and Snails the idea to, he is not responsible for their actions.

The Real AnonPonyCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488973

File: 130672943390.jpg (60.47 KB, 720x540, Goofy Pie Star.jpg)

Did anyone think that in Equestria, magic shows are, at the very least, rare, seeing as about a third of the population can perform some level of magic. what money could be made doing a magic show, when its such a common 'talent'. So its understandable that everypony thought she was merely boasting, and not trying to entertain.

My thoughts, Trixie WAS boasting. but She just wanted to impress some people and maybe make some friends. However, she went about it in a terrible way if that was her objective.

If we see her in season 2, I hope she tries to redeem herself, but still has a slight arrogance to her. Kind of like Rainbow Dash, but more so.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488974

At the very least, Trixie was in the wrong because her boasts resulted in the town confronting an Ursa Minor.

But, to go a little deeper, the fact that she chose rank humiliation as a way to address the neighsayers in the audience suggests she really was quite haughty, well beyond merely being a showpony.

Mooshi!GrAVitY3XgCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488975

>>2488971
Not the best example, but think of the guy who played Kramer. Funny guy. One night he was heckled by a black guy at a comedy club and kinda sorta went Trixie on him verbaly with racial slurs. That was a major PR disaster.

The difference between Kramer and Trixie is that Kramer had an established career complete with many fans. Trixie, however, was introduced automatically with heckling thrown her way without any background. Our first impression was an egotistical bitch. She is kind of one, but we never got a proper introduction to see her "real" personality. Towards the end, she did show fear. Trixie as a 2D dimensional egomaniac? Not buying it.

mimimilalalaCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488976

Nice to know I'm not the only one who noticed this. While I don't think she's a super wonderful person or anything, Trixie definitely isn't as bad as she's often perceived. The main characters took issue with her when it was completely unnecessary, and while one could argue that her methods were a little extreme, and fact is that she was basically just dealing with some really bold hecklers.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488977

>>2488976
Were they really such bold hecklers? For the most part, I think the mane cast were talking amongst themselves. She might have overherd Rainbow Dash's halfhearted, "boo." I think Trixie went out of her way to call them out.

The Mailpony Always Knocks TwiceCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488978

>>2488977
>moved up to front row
>starts talking shit
>not wispering

Country code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488979

I would say Trixie's powers are analogous to ANOTHER tuned up Bugatti Veryron, decked out in ricetastic chrome paint, in GT5 online.

It's fast, it's flashy, and it can be own3d in seconds if you know the trick.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488980

The whole "Trixie is a showpony" angle seems to be extrapolation on the part of the fandom - it's not established that she's a performer beyond aesthetical similarities to real-world stage magic, but that's not the way she presents herself, and that's not the way the writers present her. It is, however, established that she is an egotistical bitch. And an annoying one at that.

EponaCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488981

Epona thinks that they just hated her talking in the 3rd person all the time. Epona finds it very annoying when somepony does that, however, Epona finds a lot of things annoying.

DogCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488982

File: 130674083685.jpg (19.84 KB, 400x300, IMG_1809.jpg)

>>2488980
If she wasnt a Showpony then why the heck was she in town for?
We know for a fact that there is indeed currency used in Equestria so she likely has to earn some money somehow.

All points and evidence point towards her being a performer of some kind.


And I would like to point out that while while a portion of the population has the ability to use magic I think it's been well established that the levels of magical abilty greatly vary from pony to pony.

Rarity for example seems to know only a handful of magic spells that suits whatever their talents of professions require.

Thats what makes characters like Trixie and Twilight so unique as since their special talents ARE indeed magic they have a larger repitoire then most other Ponies.
Meaning it sorta makes sense for her to be a Magician.

Country code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488983

>>2488980

She lives (or, well, lived) in a cart that unfolds into a stage set with props. What more do you want?

DogCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488984

>>2488983
Her showpony liscense and the permit to operate a traveling magic show? :3

Brony Millers(Member of the Lunar Uprising)!GDXDFUuO1ECountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488985

She isn't perfect, I'll give you that.

The Ursa Major thing, I believe she has tried to face one in the past for some unknown reason and lost, hence both the story (nobodys going to pay a loser) and her reaction to it.

The counter heckling. Judging by the fact that everyone apart from Dash, Rarity and Applejack was enjoying themselves, she probably doesn't get many hecklers.

For Applejack, maybe that's just Trixie's style, not to be better than the other person, but to be as good, then take them down a peg. That's pretty dirty, but this ain't no Pen and Teller.

For Dash, Trixie Can't fly, and she's forced to watch somepony who can fly show off get all the cheering. 'Trixie doesn't need a supporting act, now toot off'

For Rarity, she probably took that as an insult. Green hair for you.

She then looked at the group of friends, there was one who hadn't heckled yet. Is she interested? No, she has laundry calling. That's it for today. Tough crowd.

An Ursa Major? Not again! I will try again. I have to. I can't let this town get destroyed.
Wow, that purple one is really powerful. I'm kinda glad she didn't challenge me now after all. Who am I kidding, I would have found a way to show her up.

Oh no! they're about to start blaming people. I'm outta here.

AnsiCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488986

File: 130674719134.jpg (115.86 KB, 600x400, Trixie's Showpony Licence…)

>>2488984

Anything else, officer? :3

Mooshi!GrAVitY3XgCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488987

Welp, I don't care about what anypony else says. I've grown to adore Trixie. I don't think nopony will disagree that Trixie does have a an ego, but to be fair, so does Rainbow Dash. Let's face it. The rainbow filly is cool, but she's the type that can rub you the wrong way if you wasn't already her friend to tolerate and love the SHIT out of her.

Then we have Applejack. She's a simple gal through and through. Hard work gets her to respect you, not flash. From her perspective, it isn't a magic show, it's showing off. How many vegas style acts have you seen in a farming community lately? Exactly. AJ isn't used to that stuff.

This brings us to Rarity. You know those kids that sag their pants, the PC gamers that have a Transformers looking computer case or someone alittle too obsessed with the Fast & Furious franchise? Things of that nature are straight up gaudy to somepony that prefers elegant things. Like AJ, Rarity has her own opinion on what's fabulous or not.


Be they BG or not, nopony else had a negative expression - only the main cast. I know this is a cartoon, but had this been in real life, things would have went down waaaaaaaay less dramatic without the heckling (which is just rude especially if the show hasn't even started) AND without immature children *cough* Spike, Snips and Snails *cough* adding more fuel to the fire. Honestly, even with her ego, you can't help but feel Trixie did get caught up in the mess.

Speaking of which...older people do this all the time when telling story to kids. We exaggurate to make things more appealing to them. I love Spike and all, but he was totally a humbug in this ep. Like the guy that tells happy kids "Santa doesn't exist". I can't believe I am defending Snips and Snails...but could it have hurt Spike to let them indulge in childish wonder over Trixie's tales instead of being all PROVE IT *BOASTS ABOUT TWILIGHT*? ;l

The_Clop_Guy!HerabekIIgCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488988

File: 130675073038.jpg (174.95 KB, 1115x750, twi vs trixie.jpg)

>>2488987
Because spike is a baby Dragon and my dad can beat up your dad.

In this case, the mane cast (Twilight especially) is our dad. Snips and Snails are the unlikable twerps that are bragging on theirs, so we (spike) call them out on it.

That's what the writers were appealing to, I think. Wether or not it works depends on the audience member. Personally, I wanted twilight to give Trixie a real trouncing, because there's a difference between showmanship and being braggadocios.

Mooshi!GrAVitY3XgCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488989

File: 130675321035.png (374.1 KB, 640x480, Can_I_has.png)

>>2488988

Works for me!

>totally ignoring the fact Hasbro/The Hub would never EVER give an epic showdown between the two unicorn in a magic to the death type battle.

Brony Millers(Member of the Lunar Uprising)!GDXDFUuO1ECountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488990

>>2488989

Why would Trixie ever face Twilight in a battle to the death? Trixie isn't the jealous type. She knows she has no real power. At the beginning, Twilight and Spike are talking about how Twilight's talent IS magic, but Trixie's talent is magic TRICKS.

If Twilight had gone up first, Trixie would have welcomed her as a guest performer and made her do a few spells. That's how I percieve their relationship.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488991

>>2488990
Why do people forget that she actually did magic (she made a real lightning storm, frankly a very small one that didn't do much but you can clearly see sear marks on the Ursa minor coat) meaning she isn't just doing tricks, she has real magic under her sleeve, a fact Twilight recognize by saying she was very good. Considering she is Dr. Manehattan and has been in Canterlot (city of unicorns) all her life there must be something to Trixie.

BritPony!CWPCjBf/2wCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488992

Originally I didn't like Trixie at all, but over time I have definately come to see that she got a pretty raw deal.

I mean, the hypocrisy in Rainbow Dash booing her for acting better than others is hilarious. She even says herself shortly before they start heckling her that it's because they already have her around "being better than the rest of us". How fucking egotistic can you get?! But it's okay that Dash does it because she isn't on a stage?

As for how she reacted, did she honestly do anything that bad? All she did is tie AJ up, spin Dash around and mess with Rarity's hair. If I was a performer and somepony started talking shit (and we were ponies, lol) I would do that without a moment's hesitation.

kamerad!KpNyYEHO9wCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488993

idk

I saw it not very long after I saw Water for Elephants, so I didn't see anything wrong with Trixie hamming it up. It's just show biz, people.

Brony Millers(Member of the Lunar Uprising)!GDXDFUuO1ECountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488994

>>2488991

Ok, Twilight remarked that Trixie was good because she's using some pretty nifty spells, but since she admitted defeat after that pitiful lightning cloud, we can assume that's her max power. All her spells are style over substance because that's part of her job.

She is at least twice as magical as other unicorns because her chosen field required twice as much magic, but she hasn't nearly as much raw power as the element of magic herself.

DogCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488995

>>2488994
Well I think it has more to do with her magic having to do with being an entertainer more then anything.
If you saw what she was capable of while it was MAGIC it was Magic designed to entertain and bedazzle.
Even the lightning is an element of that (Anyone ever just watch a lightning storm for fun?).

Once again a Ponies raw magical talent typically has to do with their special skills and talents.
Twilights talent is being Pure Mage so not only does she have a shit-ton of magical talent, but she's also been studying at the hoof of Celestia for most of her life. And it's helped considerably as she's a Workaholic.

Trixie though probably has more raw magic then most normal Unicorns and I'd be willing to bet that Trixie has a a stunning amount of Control over the spells she does know.
But nothing close to Twilights got packing in both terms of raw power and the amount of magic she knows.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488996

>>2488995

So if there was a duel Trixie would have to rely on cunning and creative usage of spells.

DogCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488997

>>2488996
Yes pretty much and even then it's not assured victory.

Trixie is first and foremost an Entertainer. She just so happens to be an Entertainer who specializes in Magic.
She has a great aptitude for magic, more so then other Unicorns.
(Which sorta supports her intial idea of her being the most magical pony in Equestria becuase as far as she knew SHE was. Twilight prior to the show had been a shut-in and seemed more concerned with magical theory and private practice.)

She's likely self taught unless she went to the Magical School Twilight was trying to get into to. But I sorta like the idea of her being self tuaght.

She also probably doesnt have the vast amount of magical knowledge Twilight does and instead probably focuses on Magic she can use in her show. Despite not knowing as much Magic as Twlight or having the same raw strength behind her abilties she probably makes this up with a stunning degree of control and skill. Which is probably why her show's are entertaining.

Twilight on the other hand is an EXTREMELY powerful pony with a tremendous amount of raw talent. But I think she suffers from lack of control and has to practice a lot so she can develop a proper control over the typical spell she's working on.
She also seems to suffer from tiring herself or straining herself when she works with certain spells.
This is supported in several episodes where we see Twilight struggling to cast a new magic spell she hasnt really worked on. (The straining.)
Or in the same episode we see Trixie in she starts to tire out as she tries to send away the Ursa Minor.

However it still doesnt change several facts.
1. Twilight has tremendous magical ability as her talent IS actually magic.

2. She's a workaholic who studies everything she can about magic and magical theory. While she may not have the same level of control over some of her spells as Trixie, she makes up for this in the fact that she know's more spells.
Her spells are frequently more powerful. (Transformation of dense stones to clothing....Turning Mice to some hideous crossbreed of mice and horses....Sending away the Ursa Minor to name a few.)

3. She has formal training from Celestial herself and has been training with her for a long time.

Bogeypony!adtcifLOssCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488998

>>2488989
To me I think a magic contest duel instead of a full on battle would suffice. Plus this idea is more likely to happen in the show since it's less violent and would also add a reason for Trixie to come back after a long time (she begins to practice REAL magic). A big plus would be if she redeems herself and learns the lesson of the day after this whole ordeal ends.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2488999

>>2488985
We can confirm she didn't confront an Ursa Major in the past because she was surprised when Twilight Sparkle revealed that was only an Ursa Minor. That, and Trixie flat out admitted that she made the story up.

Further, I don't think she confronted the Ursa Minor out of a desire toe defend Ponyville, but rather because her gigantic ego was on the line with her biggest fans, Snips and Snails, watching.

DogCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489000

>>2488999
I disagree as....Well first of all she doesnt like Snips or Snails. Why she'd risk her neck just to try and save face in front of THOSE particular two is beyond me.
I mean seriously those two are grating.

She know's she couldn't tackle an Ursa but she tried to take it down anyway which is laudable even though it was an effort doomed to failure.

Re-Watching the Episode? Yeah...The Mane Cast came off as real bitches.

Rarity was offended at a Performers boasting.

Applejack started jawing off on how a Performer is showing off. *Headdesk*

Rarity then goess off on how just becuase someone can PERFORM lots of magic doesnt mean their better then the rest of them.... :wtf:
Where did Trixie in her opening say she was better then anyone? She's a Performer!

Then we see Dash go off and actually SAY she was better then everyone. *Headdesk!* Before getting the evil eye from Applejack prompting her to boo.

It's only then does Trixie react to them....After they'd interrupted her Show to talk about how she's a bad pony becuase she's a perfomer while she was trying to ply her trade. O_o

She makes a comment how she's the best magic user in Ponyville.
Which would be true if it werent for Twilight. But she's a complete unknown factor to Trixie.

And then the Mane-Cast begins their own rounds of boasting and showboating in an effort to show Trixie up....

*Sighs*
Yeah crazy episode...

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489001

>>2488983
I said "aesthetic similarities." At no point do any of the characters say "she's a performer." At no point does *Trixie* say "I'm a performer." No, she says "I am the most powerful unicorn, look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair." The way she's presented, she acts like she honestly believes she's the most powerful unicorn evah, and if Snips and Snails are any indication, the other ponies take it at much more face value than "performance."

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489002

>>2489001
Continuing, all the points about "she's a performer" are extrapolation that's based purely off of aesthetic similarities. Here's what I extrapolate from that - the similarity to stage magic is used to foreshadow the fact that she is a fraud. Not a performer, a fraud. A very, very obnoxious fraud.

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>>2489001
She's a Unicorn that does magic tricks.
And she was saying she was the most magically talented Unicorn in Equestria.
Which as far as she knew was an accurate assemption given that she didnt know of or about Twilight. (Twilight having been a shut-in and very anti-social probably kept her head down low enough that it would be easy to now know about here.)

And second is the fact that WHY ELSE would she come in a wagon performing magic tricks if she wasnt a performer? You think someone just goes around from town to town boasting on their greatness performing magic tricks and NOT being a magic show?
How do you plot that course?

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>>2489002
*Bangs Head*
Then why is she in town performing magic tricks to a large crowd for the town square if she wasnt a Stage Magician?
What do you CALL a pony who has a Wagon that turns into a stage with fire-works, stage curtain, stage props who ALSO performs what you even called Stage Magic for crowds of people?

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>>2489004
I call it foreshadowing and visual puns.

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>>2488956

I agree with this assessment which is why I still LOVE Trixie as a character and she is one of my favorite ponies. I think the writer gave her the raw deal on that episode. Gilda's situation was kind of a misunderstanding too but that's another thread.

Trixie will be back for season 2 and she will probably be in an episode where the moral is making assumptions or judging a book by its cover or something.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489007

>>2489006
Trixie's contents aren't any better from the cover.

I honestly have no idea why anyone likes her. She's obnoxious. She has an irritating voice. Her episode is boring. She isn't even fucking cute.

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>>2489007
*Looks at OP's Pic*
I think she's cute when she takes the hat and cloak off.

When she turns off her Show-Pony mode towards the end of the episode she also sounds normal.

And there are other ponies.... (Rainbow Dash)
Who are obnoxious who we love anyway.

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>>2489007
and opinions aren't facts.

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I swear this thread is turning into an excuse for Trixie Lovers and Trixie Haters to shout at each other, over-analyze the show, and abuse the word "extraploation". But that's kinda how I feel about a lot of Internet arguments.

Anyway, I don't <i>hate</i> Trixie (I'd like to see them do something with her in season 2), but I certainly don't think any amount of heckling justifies her lashing out like she did. And she was definitely laying it on thick with the boasting and self-praise.

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>>2489011
I don't think anyone is going to change their opinions really.

I look at Trixie and Rainbow Dash and basically see them as Jim from The Office.

Some people think he's awesome, funny, and cool. Others think he's smug, a jerk, and a smartass. It's all perception and opinion.

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>>2489011
Yeah well I'm not argueing that the Stage Magacian isnt really a stage magacian. :3

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>>2489007
>I honestly have no idea why anyone likes her.

I do.
From all the overanalysis, fanfictions and fanon that revolves around her.

Also this >>2489012

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489015

One problem I have is that everyone kind of seems to be pretty...uh...judgmental about Trixie. I mean, Gilda was kind of a thug, but Trixie was just...un-nice.

But having an abrasive personality hardly makes her history's greatest monster.

Maybe she was kind of overly jerky, but she got her home and possessions stomped and everyone thinks it's perfectly fine. Not to mention all the hate. Dang. Kind of disproportionate, I'd say.

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>>2489015
Gilda is a thug. No body likes a thug, but you understand how they come into being.

Trixie is a braggart. It's really easy to hate some one who brags, especially when they're shown up. Not to mention she's smug, and it's hard to like a smug bastard. Worst of all they have to make her a smug, self righteous bastard compared to Rainbow Dash.

Trixie comes in, breaks Rainbow Dash, Rarity, and Applejack, which is like 60% the fanbase right there, proceeds to humiliate Twilight in public, then continues to smug up the place for the entirety of Act 2.

You have to over analyze her character to get anything more then dislike for her, and some people don't put that much effort into it.

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>>2489014
It's actually the same with Luna.
She had less than a minute of screen time.
She's more loved that some of the main chars *cough*spike*cough*.

DogCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489018

>>2489016
1. No we don't really know how Gilda came into being. All we know is she's an over aggressive jerk who's a supremely negative influence on Rainbow Dash.

Trixie is a little more complex then that and opens up a little more in the way of speculation.

2. How did she come across as a Smug Bastard? A lot of the Mane-Casts complaints don't really make sense when you make her a Traveling Performer and that many of their complaints. (Rarity complaining that Trixie thought she was better then everyone...Which begs the question of where Trixie said that in the context she was bringing up?)

3. The Mane-Cast were loudly complaining about her and her show while she was performing. She then challenged them to come up and prove that she was full of hot air.
While she went a little overboard in humiliating the mane cast the entirety of Ponyville thought the show was great.
And thats what a lot of it was, was a show to entertain the citizens and the cast could have backed out or refused but they kept lining up in an attempt to knock her down a peg and failed.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489019

"Ooooo, what's the matter? Afraid you'll get a hair out of place in that rat's nest you call a mane?"

Who's the instigator there?

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How about we all just agree that whoever wrote that episode wrote a hypocritical pile of manure in which no one except maybe Twilight, comes off as "good" at all? We can argue this 'til the cows come home but the fact remains that this whoever wrote this episode messed up in the logic department.

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>>2489000
Well, there was another pretty big reason why she confronted the Ursa Minor even though she had no interest in defending Ponyville besides Snips and Snails watching while her ego was on the line: they were backed into a corner. (See pic) Yeah, they escaped anyway after her attempts failed, but that was sort of a cartoonish "when all else fails" unlikely escape.

I would go so far as to agree that the Mane cast were behaving fairly rudely at her performance, and that it's not a stage magician's role to be humble - on the contrary, a stage magician would indeed trump themselves up.

However, I'd say that no classy stage magician would calling out members of the audience in order to humiliate them as a means to counter rude audience members. That this was Trixie's solution (not to mention the smarmy expression she wore throughout it out) should establish that she wasn't feigning superiority.

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>>2489020
Well even Twilight comes across as a little jerky when she told Snips and Snails to clean up 'the mess'
(Referring to Trixies home and were she kept her personal possesions.)

Unless we later find out Twilight had them salvage as much as possible and put it somewhere safe in case they ever came across the stuff...Otherwise....Yeah so far as we know Twilight came off as the best out of all of them...

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>>2489022

well, all said and done I believe has Trixie stayed they would have repaired her wagon at least, despite everything. Just that kind of show, right?

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>>2489021
I can agree with that, she wasnt feigning superiority when it came to her magical abilty becuase up until Boast Buster's it's very likely she was the most magical Unicorn she'd seen. (I think the number of Unicorn's whose special talent is related to magic is quite low.)

While amusing her handling of her hecklers was going to far.
She wasnt a classy stage magician for sure, but that doesnt really excuse the behavior of the mane cast when she first arrived in actually disrupting the show.
But their are likely better ways for her to have handled it.

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>>2489023

I should hope so.

Honestly, they would have been better off just making Rainbow Dash the braggart instead of creating a new character to put in a convoluted storyline that tells kids to treat entertainers like manure.

Ten seconds flat anyone? I'm the one who should be saying I'm better than anyone else, anyone?

I rest my case.

DogCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489026

>>2489023
They might have, though the air would have been very chilly while they had done so and the quality might have been off.

Though I have my doubts they'd have done that as everyone would likely been pissed off at her....Thus the reason why she made such a quick exit....

I wonder what Dash was wanting to do to her?

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489027

Wholly different catcher of grass. Mannerisms matter - Trixie lied about things she didn't have to lie about and her body language, expression, and tone was all gittish. You can't blame people for thinking she was a git, especially since it was subsequently proven she was a lying git.

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>>2489027

She is a freaking entertainer!

Do you think David Blain goes " Hey guys, I'm going to make this pool full of puppies disappear with smoke and mirrors and try to trick you."

NOOOOO

He would say " Watch and be amazed as I use my magic talents to make this huge empty pool of puppies disappear in front of your eyes"

Do you not freaking get it?

What the heck is a git anyway? I don't speak Cockney.

DogCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489030

>>2489027
She lied about the one story and it was likely just a Tall Tale she was telling to get her audiance pumped up and excited and to get the Mane-Cast to back down.

And I don't think your using the word git correctly.

DogCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489031

>>2489029
Git typically refers to a ill mannered person who behaves like a child.

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>>2489031
much appreciated.

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>>2489026

Eehhhh, I thought it was reasonably clear that the townsfolk understood it was Snips and Snails that brought the Minor to town, rather than Trixie. There would be bruised egos because of her personality sure, but I don't really see twilight or the town as drastically upset. Even then the most culpable were only tasked with cleaning up what was destroyed and given mustaches. Rarity/AJ/RD and whoever got their house bit are probably grumble-level mad, but I don't quite see pitchfork levels of anger from ponyville here.

You have to admit, with her house the only one destroyed in the momentary chaos, she's pretty much already got whatever comeuppance she might have deserved.

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>>2489027
One thing you've gotta keep in mind about Trixie is that she was a git because she was intended to be a git.

Yes, the mane cast were acting rudely at a performance, but they had reason: they were explaining to the viewer what the problem was with Trixie.

Now, if Trixie turned out to just be acting her role as a stage magician, then the mane cast would have been wrong to accuse her.

But Trixie did everything possible to confirm she was genuinely haughty. Why? Because the story just wouldn't work if it turned out Trixie was in the right.

Now, some of the bronies here like Trixie, and I think it's okay to like her. She's a fun character, I'd like to see her again in season 2. But you really need to realize that the portrayal of her as an innocent is pure fanon.

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>>2489028
Four times. She's also in the upper right. next to bon bon

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>>2489028

At once. And I think there's another one in the back there, to the right side.

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>>2489034

I don't see her as innocent, but on the other hand the clear intent and the delivery of that intent are at best hypocritcal. She's bitchy, but it was the mane six heckling and disrupting that started the situation at the stage in the first place. She said she could defeat a Major, but she both didn't bring the Minor to demonstrate and was the primay victim of the Minor's rage.

In short, the intended villan has a lot for which the viewer can be rightly sympathetic for. It's not that we can't see the intent, we just don't agree with the lesson, because of the situation presented.

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>>2489034

nobody is portraying her as pure innocent, Bro. We are saying she is an entertainer and boasted and told lies to make herself seem more impressive so that she could do her JOB and make BITS.

Like I said, everyone in that episode except maybe Twilight was a mule. Rainbow Dash consistently boasts all the time and noone gives a pile of manure. But oh gosh, some character comes in who is a magician who is just doing an act ( who is haughty because she genuinely believed she was the most magical pony because Twilight stayed on the downlow)

Basic logic says she got into a mess because of her mouth but technically so did the entire mane cast. Noone was a good character in that episode pretty much and to say Trixie is pure evil IS entirely fanon given the evidence.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489039

>>2489034

Pretty much this. You can project into the story a layer of sophistication that's not there to imply that Trixie is fine, but consider how she handled it when she was outed as useless; consider the smug, condescending attitude she had to her genuine fans with no audience around to check her behaviour; consider her lack of gratitude to Twilight Sparkle for saving the day.

Fact is, she's a git.

(Also: "Git is mild profanity with origins in British English for a silly, incompetent, stupid, annoying, senile elderly or childish person. It is usually an insult, more severe than twit or idiot but less severe than wanker or arsehole.")

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Trixie is form over function.

Form over function is automatically uncool.

/thread

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>>2489038
I meant to say:

But oh gosh, some character comes in who is a magician who is just doing an act ( who is haughty because she genuinely believed she was the most magical pony because Twilight stayed on the downlow) and she is so evil she eats boiled pony fetuses.

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>>2489039

so was the mane cast. What is your point?

if you can't admit that, you're a hypocrite.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489043

>>2489042

I'm not sure 'You're a hypocrite' is a very meaningful line to draw here. I haven't said squat about the mane cast - but I have said that Trixie is a git, and not innocent at all.

Based on my memory of the episode, Trixie turned up, made a big song and dance, and the mane cast reacted as if she was being a git.

Tell me there's not a time when you meet someone and your first reaction is 'Wow, that guy's a dingus' within a few moments of him first opening his mouth?

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489044

Bonus: Rainbow Dash talks about her prowess at clearing clouds, then backed it up. She boasts about her ability to perform the once-in-a-lifetime Sonic Rainboom, which she's done twice. Dash is certainly a noisesome girl, but by and large, she's not making empty boasts like Trixie's Ursa Major claims.

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>>2489043

Reacting that way is one thing. Then disrupting their show or work? quite another.

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>>2489043

if someone was calling me out in a show in which I was sure I was very talented to be performing, I'd say the heckler's who started the whole thing were the gits.

If the mane cast had kept their mouths shut, none of it would have happened. They were heckling the equivalent of David Blain or Chris Angel or Houdini. Again, flawed writing is flawed.

And if you can't understand this Bro, I honestly am going to try really hard to just tolerate and love the shit out of you and agree to disagree.

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>>2489038
If your point is that the mane cast was less than perfect, my reply would be along the lines of, "so you finally noticed."

One of the things that make MLP:FIM so interesting is that the mane cast really isn't perfect. Each one of them seems to snap at some time or another. This is cool because it's a contributing factor that makes them a multidimensional character.

Trixie doesn't get that luxury. Maybe in the future she'll learn her lesson, but in the present of Boast Busters she was a pure antagonist. That the mane cast reacted in their usual, oft-imperfect, way doesn't change that this was Trixie's role in the story.

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>>2489043

besides, it's showbiz.

Do you know what they do in showbiz? fudge the truth to make a buck. You know who works in showbiz? arrogant "gits".

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>>2489047

apparently you didn't notice I've been saying this all along. >>2489020

So please read the thread next time.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489050

>>2489046

You get the impression that Trixie was genuinely as good as she said she was - barring for the grotesque lie?

*shrug*

She put herself out there, and the people in the crowd didn't get the read of 'this amazing entertainer is about to entertain, I must mess with this' they got the read of 'what an ass.' Is it fair to say that you think the inverse? That the mane cast, out of typical standing, decided this time that they would be nasty people without ANY prior reason to do so?

You can assert that it's bad writing, and therefore the mane cast are hypocrites, but I'm less inclined to do that - saying 'bad writing' and then using that as the grounding for an interpretation you prefer for a character is sweeping the whole matter under the rug.

Besides; isn't it better to love and tolerate Trixie because of and in spite of her flaws, not to pretend they're not there?

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>>2489039
No trouble.

>>2489033
For the most part I agree I just think from Trixies PoV she thinks she'd be culpable for what happened if people started to think.....
And I don't think losing your home, method of doing buisness and all your worldy posseasions for telling a Tall Tale is a comeuppance.

>>2489034
No one said she's 'innocent' though thats not the word I'd use for her.
Fanon from all that I've seen tries to EXPLAIN why she acts like a bitch and tries to paint her as a more sympathetic character instead of a raging bitch.

>>2489037
To make the lesson even worse each of the Mane-Cast who went up there went UP there to strut their stuff and prove that they have skills/abilties that puts them above Trixies.

Though personally I don't see how she'd be the Villian as all she did was upstage the Main Cast and act a little bitchy.


>>2489039
Calling her useless is disengenious as she simply didnt have the raw power to beat back the Ursa Minor.
And in fact Twilight couldnt actual defeat it and instead just put it back to sleep and sent it back to the Everfree Forest. (Though the fact she was able to do that much was extremely impressive.)

And seriously....Snips and Snails are ANNOYING as all get out. (Not to mention being stupid to the point of endangering people around them.)
I'm surprised she put up with them AT ALL.

And in regards for Trixie showing gratitude? Her home was just destroyed and she was thrust into a horribly embarassing position of being shown as not as great as her show would have had people to believe.

Hell I would'nt be surprised if we found out the next time we see her as soon as she get out of LoS she collapsed and started crying or something.

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>>2489048

I'm reminded of my favourite stage magician, James Randi, who says 'The magician is the only honest entertainer; he stands on stage and says 'I will deceive you,' and then does so.'

That's just a matter of methods, though. My run-ins with showbiz sorts has yet to show me someone whose on-stage persona of a blustering, boasting liar is completely at odds with their real self.

And we don't even have to assert that; we see what Trixie's like, off-stage, we see how gracious she can be when she's just been rescued, and we can see the ease with which she can admit her failings.

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>>2489047

YES,for the purpose of story she is " antagonist ". However, in reality, if we flesh her out with what we can deduce with logic, she thought she was really great and told lies to make herself seem better than she was (for an act), which is common in entertainment. Most commercials barely tell you the truth about their products. Everybody spins.

Also in reality, the whole episode is shades of grey with no real meaningful message beyond " magicians are jerks" and spoiling kids' birthday parties everywhere.

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>>2489053
Well, that and 'You don't have to tell everyone about how great you are.' Perhaps even 'Examine carefully all the claims to hear.' Perhaps 'Mustaches when out of place are hilarious.' Maybe even 'Don't fear the judgement of your friends.'

I dunno, just throwing it out there.

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>>2489049
Hah, if I had a bit for every time I said that to somebody.

No, I'm quite aware that you disagree with the logic of this episode in the way that the mane cast could be seen as instigating the conflict. You're not giving me adequate credit in that you don't realize I've moved past that.

I'm saying that, even if the mane cast's behavior could be seen as instigating the conflict, Trixie's behavior confirmed the mane cast were completely right to react in the way that they did.

In other words, if we look at them as being disruptive during her performance because she was overly haughty, it was haughtiness that transcended merely being a showpony and they were right to have disrupted the performance by observing it.

No, brony, take a moment to consider this: what's really going on here is that you want this logically clean-cut story to be more muddled because it's more interesting than what actually happened.

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>>2489050

but the problem is, we ARE dealing with bad writing that is hypocritical and makes the mane cast act out of character. That is fact and not opinion.

Therefore, bad story is bad. Trying to make Trixie look bad while making the main characters look like jerks in the process is counterproductive. There is no clear good guy.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489057

Considering the sweet nature of the show, and the tone and tenor of the characters, I'm surprised how many people feel the need to apologise for an outright lie.

It's one thing to say 'our spread is the best you'll ever taste.' It's another thing to say 'our spread cures cancer.'

It'd be cool if when we see Trixie again, she's doing the same thing, but she's being truthful, if not honest; that she still puts herself out there, still makes some noise, but doesn't lie to do it - because you don't have to.

(Isn't Honesty one of the elements of harmony...?)

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>>2489056

You just posted that picture, and then asserted that your opinion was a fact.

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>>2489046

Well, it would have halted the humilating displays Trixie resorted to. However, the lack of heckling doesn't seem to have bearing on whether the Ursa Minor would be lured; Given who she is I find it likely she would have still boasted about it in part of her act, and the mane six, even if polite would likely dismiss it; Spike would still speak his mind (as he has right to) after the show to Snips and Snails and we'd still have the Minor nibbling houses and smashing carts.

>>2489047

I think the point of the pro trixie faction here is that she is not the clear antagonist she was perhaps meant to be.

But as I think on it, perhaps that was what was intended after all. Both that the mane six aren't shallow automatic-morally-and-politically-correct choice AND that their foils aren't merely that.

Is the easiest lesson to take from the episode at odds or even hypocritical given the situation presented. Perhaps. Is that bad writing? ... No, not quite. Given the thinking it's drummed up it seems rather good writing, and evidence that their characters are very human.

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>>2489055

Well I'm sorry but you're wrong. The episode is not logical. Mane cast acts like jerks. Says antagonist is jerk. Antagonist acts like jerk.

Mane cast gets of scot free and acting out of character? It's bad writing and we wouldn't be discussing this if it HAD been more clean-cut. I would be completely agreeing with you.

Trixie showed her true colors after the fact, but that doesn't excuse the fact that the mane cast were the instigators all along and not the Antagonist. The antagonist instigates, the Protagonist reacts.That's how stories work.

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>>2489058
That's because what I stated was fact backed up by facts. You have not shown sufficient proof that Trixie was in fact the clear antagonist. Until then, it's your opinion and nothing more.

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>>2489055
A magacian rolls into town and sets up shop.
You and a few friends arrive and get up towards the front of the crowd in time to see the start of the show.

The performer is loud, blustery and has a slightly inflated ego but overall seems to know what the fuck he/she's doing.

You and your friends then decide to IGNORE the fact that someone's putting on a good show and start jawing off IN THE MIDDLE OF THE SHOW on how bad a person the performer is for 'Showing off' his Talents and Abilties as well as saying that his/her Magic Sucked and in one case the person got booed.

First off your disrupting EVERYONE else who's watching the show as from everything we could see the other Ponies were having a good time watching the show (We see in the show other ponies laughing and cheering.)

And next your disrupting the Performer as he/she tries to work.

Using YOUR logic that if you talk and make yourself out to be a jackass during the show and if the Performer reacts in a negative manner and slightly antagonistic manner to this disruption....Then you have the right to do so?
O_o

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>>2489054

that's pretty funny. Thanks for the levity.

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>>2489060
Not to turn this into a "last reply" war, I'm pretty sure you're severely overreacting if you think you think "bad writing" leading to a little wiggle room means you can declare rights and wrongs here.

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>>2489061

You have READ the picture you posted, right?

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489066

Didn't Trixie ask for challengers?

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>>2489064
*sigh* I'm not mad, bro. I just want you to understand that the story is bad. If Trixie was the clear antagonist of the story like everyone claims, the mane cast would have been enjoying the show, then Trixie would call them out for no particular reason and single them out for the crap she did. In the end, she was a mule. But she was protagonist reacting to antagonist mane characters. The story was poorly written and quite frankly rank tripe now that I think about it.

But if you don't agree, then whatever. I can't make you see logic so we'll just agree to disagree like all Bronies. *brohoof* No hard feelings.

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>>2489067

>>For no particular reason,

So you could call that bad writing?

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>>2489067

Oh, and I don't think you should offer a brohoof to people you just insulted. That's not real cool, man. :(

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>>2489062
The way I'm looking at it, the performance was one of those where the performer stinks out loud because they have a terrible character flaw that is undermining their performance.

In that scenario, they're not being disruptive, the disruption is already up there on stage. There's not a whole lot of ponies who are going to sit there without comment when that's going on. So the mane six can be excused for commenting to themselves.

What happened then? Trixie called them out. As if their disruption wasn't excusable enough, they were made a part of her performance, so their disruption became toot.

Now, the right thing to do when your performer stinks out loud is to politely leave. However, you have to be a perfect little saints to pull that stunt off.

Would their politely leaving have really suited the personality of many members of the mane six? Definitely not, I could see Rarity, Rainbow Dash, and Applejack (not coincidentally the three that ended up on stage) as having too much pride to do that. It would have cheapened their personalities to go against that.

Would their politely leaving have allowed the story to work? Definitely not.

So, ultimately, the writing works. Perhaps a better question is along the lines of could you have written it better, and if so, how?

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>>2489065
yes. Again I am stating fact and basing it on fact. There is no clear antagonist. Both the mane cast and Trixie acted like antagonists. No one was innocent at all.

I'm sorry but objectively that is fact regardless of whether or not Trixie was MEANT to be the Antagonist.

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>>2489070

You make a good point. I concede to your logic.

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>>2489069

I have not insulted you at all unless your definition of insulting is arguing passionately against your position. It doesn't matter because I just conceded that you were correct.

I was giving you a brohoof to throw an olive branch and tolerate and love. That is the brony way. I'm sorry if I came across as harsh. I did not mean to hurt your feelings.

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>>2489055

And that is were I will have to disagree; Even if a person is a colossal jerk does not give another person the right to interfere with their livelyhood. It does not give an audience member the right to disrupt the show for the performer or the rest of the audience. Seeing someone ill-mannered isn't a licence to treat them badly.

You don't like a show? Leave, and let anyone who's entertained stay that way. That's all there is to it.

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>>2489073

I think the reason it came across as insulting was 'I can't make you see logic, so, brohoof.'

It felt like you were trying to get a last-minute snipe in. Anyways, it's all good.

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>>2489075
no, no sniping, man.I promise you. I was just at the point that we should agree to disagree to get along because we were not getting anywhere and it was getting a little intense.

But in the end you were right and I was wrong, so I'm sincerely sorry, if that means anything.

Nighstorm | Jericho!tSLL90172ICountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489077

Something that all of you defenders of Trixie seem to ignore is the fact that she still acts like a smug little "holier than thou" flankhurt when she was OFF stage as well, even going by "THE GREAT AND POWERFUL" when she was talking to Snips and Snails after the show AND when they came and knocked on her door when the Ursa Minor was coming to town, and she had no clue who that would be at the time of night it was.

Now I still like Trixie, and the first time we see her off-stage makes sense: She's still hamming it up for the audience. But the fact that she speaks like that to whoever knocked on her door without knowing who it was shows that she's just like that in general.

I admit that the mane cast shouldn't have heckled her too much, but her retaliation, imo, was a bit too harsh in that she pretty much attacked them with humiliation rather than performing her own stunts that would have been better. She could have easily done something with a tone of apples and the rope, she could have changed the rainbow into an exact replica of RD and then she could have simply made a better color design for Rarity's dress rather than ourtright humiliating them with what she did.

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>>2489072
It's always a doozy when somebody changes their mind on the Internet. I return your brohoof with gusto, fellow brony!

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>>2489078

That anony guy proved his point with flawless logic I could not refute. Therefore I was wrong and had to admit it.

I'm usually open to changing my mind if someone can prove their argument is correct and mine is false. To do otherwise would be dishonest.

Mooshi!GrAVitY3XgCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489082

Trixie returns

Dash: "Not her again!"

Twi: "Rainbow Dash..do you remember what happened last time?"

AJ: "Yeah...she might have been a showboat, but we weren't exactly being neighborly, either."

Dash: "But!"

Twi: "No buts."

Spike: "Hmph! She still lied.."

Twi: "I know, bu-"

Trixie: "Um...hey Everypony."

Rarity: "I dunno about you ponies, but a lady stays graceful. Hello, dahling!"

And thus Trixie returns in season 2 and her and the cast try to make up the bad first impression. Trixie appologizes for the way she acted and Dash, Spike, AJ and Rarity do the same. This time around, Trixie has been practicing even more magic because Twilight impressed her. The ep then jumps into a flashback sequence of Trixie after the event with the Ursa Minor. You see the old Trixie all bitter and that transitions to her studying more magic to outmagic Twilight. Eventually, she breaks down because she feels her ego shattered when she realizes that Twilight is better at controling magic. Think of Vegeta when he first became a Super Saiyan. The real hard work and how Goku was STILL one step ahead.

The flashback ends and Trixie decides to put on a private magic show for the main 6. Not to show them up, but to show how much better she got. Even Dashie is amazed "Yeah! She's still not as awesome as me-...whao!" *WINNING Dash expression*" All is going well until...

Snips & Snails: "We didn't do it this time!! We swear!!!!"

An Ursa Major shows up in Ponyville! - The show is cut short. One more flashback sequence takes place. It's Trixie near the end of her training and her magic is on par with Twilight the last they met. (Naturally, Twi herself would know even more magic by this point) The duo unicorn combine their magic to defeat an Ursa Major.

Yay or nay?

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I'm a slow poke, but where Twilight is a fanatical scientist of magic, Trixie is definitely the clown of magic. Where if you were to argue with Twilight, she'd bring facts to play as to engage in discussion, argument, or debate and either learn something new or teach her opponent.

On the other hand, when clowns are made fun of they stay in character. Often they bring the neighsayer out in a way of "calling them out," and humiliating them in front of the entire crowd. And why not? It's just a form of entertainment reaction being that in Trixie's case she would have been humiliated in front of an audience. As an entertainer, her entire purpose would then be to remove the stain of embarrassment from herself and then place it onto another but not really an innocent person who has not made a fool of her. None of Trixie's magic was ever harmful to any pony unless the mane ponies were to challenge her. It was right to even antagonize herself because it makes a character interesting. See if she were tolerant and charming through and through, there wouldn't be a show for all people. Some ponies do enjoy a good laugh directed at a laughing stock.

In addition to the Ursa Major story, it was to produce awe and wonder. Embellishment is a very important virtue of expressive arts. You don't normally see broadway shows where people hunch up and waddle from stage right to stage left. No, they leap and twirl and open their bodies so they literally soak the entire stage presence. So yes her story is justified, because it inspires amazement and wonder to her audience. Her life is entertainment, so she has to spruce up her own story some how. The happier and more excited her target audience becomes, the less likely they'll be self conscious about throwing coins her direction.

Also if you read all of this, you are now aware that you are breathing heavily.

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It's not embellishment if you flat-out state something that never happened as having happened. That's called a lie.

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There's many people to quote so:


>Trixie starts show
>Everyone's amused
>Main 6 except twilight starts talking shit without reason
>Trixie and the main 6 fight
>Everyone's STILL amused by the show.

Trixie never said she was better than anyone.

See the episode again to see how the main 6 start talking without trixie making a harsh comment.

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>>2489082

That would be nice. To illustrate forgiveness perhaps.

Anyway, we need a version of this where the guy says "Trixie!" and the Bronies start fighting, because that seems to happen every time. She's controversial apparently.

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I need to call "Bull" on a couple items.

1) Trixie is in fact a boastful asshole. She spends most of the show talking about how great she is and when faced with someone who disagrees, she shoots them down with a "You suck, and I'm better than you," and continues talking about how great she is. You could argue she's just performing, but when I watch a performer, I want you to SHOW me how cool you are. Not spend the whole time talking about it with fireworks every now and again. Also, when two of your fans decide to get you a shake, you say, "Thank you." You do not tell them to buzz off. Yes, Snips and Snails are annoying, but they're kids. If you want them to go away, you have a hundred better ways of handling it the way Trixie did.

Not to mention that when she was challenged by the mane cast, what she did was completely unnecessary! She could have just done a fancy rope trick, she could have just made a prettier rainbow, and she could have just made a fancier dress or, heck, even messed up Rarity's dress. The humiliation was absolutely uncalled for.

2) Trixie enjoyed what she did. And I mean really enjoyed it. As I've said, she spends most of the show jerking off her ego. You can argue that that's what a performer does, but a performer does it to either enhance the show or as a joke. You do it once or twice, and then back it up with some cool stunts. Trixie isn't putting on a show; she's having a great big "Look at me guys! I'm awesome!" just to get attention.

Then, during her "Talent Off" she relishes in humiliating the mane six. Look at her face throughout the scene. A performer would do it in fun, as a joke. A performer would think, "This will be funny!" Trixie's eyes are full of pure malice. She didn't find it necessary to simply shut up the six and carry on. No, she had to put them down for daring to challenge her. And look at her face when she calls out Twilight. Twilight had done absolutely nothing at all during the whole show. So why would she point at Twilight? And why would she do so looking like that?

3) The mane six hardly instigated anything. They were making comments to each other and that was all. They were hardly interrupting any more than someone watching a film saying, "This movie sucks." The only instigators were Rainbow Dash and Spike. They started it, Trixie escalated it and got everyone involved. The mane cast could have backed down, but it would hardly have been in Rarity's, Applejack's, or Rainbow's character.

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>>2489088

You are ignoring many key facts and showing a distinct bias.

If you approach it objectively, yes Trixie acted like a royal pain, yes she had an ego. In her mind, she WAS the most magical pony in Equestria aside from Luna and Celestia of course.

But the Mane cast, while they were acting within character and being prideful, were not without fault. Looking at the story objectively, it's just mistake after mistake compounded by everybody. Everybody messes up in some way and does the wrong thing and it all snowballs to a big blue magic bear making a celebrity magician homeless because of a couple bumpkins taking her showmanship lies too seriously. And Trixie was an idiot to act the way she did even after that. But like Twilight said, she'll learn her lesson one day.

Clearly, Trixie was meant to be the antagonist here and on a black and white kids'-show basis I will agree to that. But as adults, we must also admit that the entire episode was just shades of grey, which is what life is pretty much. There was no clear antagonist if you ignore the "lesson" that was supposed to be learned.

SO, if you're going to participate in this discussion, at least have the decency to hide your bias and disdain and approach this subject objectively.

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>>2489093

>> SO, if you're going to participate in this discussion, at least have the decency to hide your bias and disdain and approach this subject objectively.

You probably wanna relax a little, bro.

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>>2489094

Lol, we've been at this all day. It's really just boils down who we excuse less for their actions.

That was until someone said trixie wasn't cute. Then I raged. :3

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mfw we will never get a trixie redemption episode

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>>2489088
Actually, you know I really have to break down this post, because there is so much opinion and extrapolation that is so " completely unnecessary" that it's bugging the heck out of me.
Let me whittle this down to facts for you and leave out your opinions and extrapolation and projection.


>>I need to (give you my opinion because I don't agree with you).

>>1) Trixie is in fact boastful. She spends most of the show talking about how great she is and when faced with someone who disagrees, she shoots them down with a "You suck, and I'm better than you," and continues talking about how great she is. She's just performing... (When you) watch a performer, (you want them) to SHOW (you) how cool(or skilled) (they) are. (Magicians and showman) spend the whole time talking about (themselves and how awesome they are) with fireworks. Also, when two of your fans decide to get you a shake, you say, "Thank you" (if you are a polite person or not a spoiled celebrity.) Yes, Snips and Snails are annoying, but they're kids. If you want them to go away, you have a hundred better ways of handling it the way Trixie did.

>> When she was challenged by the mane cast, she could have just done a fancy rope trick, she could have just made a prettier rainbow, and she could have just made a fancier dress or, heck, even messed up Rarity's dress.

>>2) Trixie spends most of the show jerking off her ego (because she's a performer and she thinks she's hot manure and doesn't realize the third most powerful unicorn in the world is standing in the audience too nervous to bring her down a peg). You can argue that that's what a performer does. A performer does it to either enhance the show or as a joke. You do it once or twice, and then back it up with some cool stunts. Trixie is putting on a show (because that's her Cutie Mark job and she has to make money from her talents like every other pony); she's having a great big "Look at me guys! I'm awesome!" just to get attention (because then she can wow the crowd and, again, make money)

>>Then, during her "Talent Off" she didn't find it necessary to simply shut up the six and carry on. No, she had to put them down for daring to challenge her (because they will cost her money in Ponyville by making the crowd turn against her and because they really had no chance against Trixie anyway). Twilight had done absolutely nothing at all during the whole show. So why would she point at Twilight? (Probably because she had been hanging out with the other three that called her out and assumed she had something to say too).

>>3) The mane six instigated (the whole) thing. They were making comments to each other (out loud in the front row, telling a performer they are subpar while they are trying to make a meager living going town to town to entertain others.) They were interrupting as much as someone watching a film (yelling) , "This movie sucks." They started it, Trixie escalated it and got everyone involved. The mane cast could have backed down, but it would hardly have been in Rarity's, Applejack's, or Rainbow's character.


There... much better. And more accurate.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489099

And really not a very clear way of communicating your point.

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>>2489097
Stranger things have happened in the magical world of cartoons.

Calm doooown. It's a children's cartoon.

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>>2489099

No I communicated it well enough. I mean I hope so. They're your own words whittled down...sooo..... I don't see how you wouldn't understand what's being said.

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>>2489094

I'm completely calm. I just find it disturbing on a board where we analyze and discuss things, someone can't approach a subject rationally, logically, and without an appeal to emotion, leaving bias, projection, and opinion out of their statement.

I don't think that's too unreasonable to ask. I am trying to be as nice as possible. Honestly.

Mooshi!GrAVitY3XgCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489103

Trixie is a cool looking blue pony with an ego...like Rainbow Dash. Only difference is that Rainbow Dash is made out to be a face while Trixie is made out to be a heel. Also, OPINIONS.

There, mystery solved. :D

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>>2489102
They're not my words. You're talking to more than one person. As a person reading the argument, rather than taking part, your post was not very clear at communicating what you thought, or why the other person you're talking to was wrong to think the way he thought. It was just kinda there.

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>>2489099

I mean I agreed with most of what you said, like before. Trixie was what you said, but you had so much visceral opinion and projection, I had to weed that out and also insert facts. So I hope you aren't offended. I am just trying to help you understand the situation from an objective standpoint. I am no longer that crazy about Trixie. I do realize she was not a good pony. I'm just saying the mane cast were no angels either and in the end, some pony is left homeless, even if she wasn't a pleasant pony. That's not very nice in a children's cartoon don't you think?

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489106

Trixie is my favorite pony because Trixie would not give a single fuck about this thread.

That or give everyone green hair.

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>>2489104

Well how should I know when you're both anonymous? Just ignore it and pretend it was for the poster I was referring to and not you, please.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489108

If you're dealing with people who are anonymous, maybe you shouldn't presume they're the same person and weight each post on its merits, rather than project a personality onto it.

And you really, really should stop using the word 'objective' in this thread.

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>>2489104

Anyway, the key difference is I left out his opinions and projections and inserted facts so that his post is more objective and doesn't appeal to emotion and leave out key facts. If it is not evident to you what I am putting across, then I'm sorry. No offense but maybe you just need to work on your reading comprehension skills?

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>>2489108
* sigh* you know what it means and it fits the situation.

>> not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.

>> intent upon or dealing with things external to the mind rather than with thoughts or feelings, as a person or a book.

I politely ask that you not tell me what to say and what not to say when I am trying to make a civil statement in a debate here.

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>>2489106
Something like this.

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>>2489103

Yes, Mooshi. My thoughts simplified. Thank you.

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>>2489111
wow that was pretty funny. Saved.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489114

>>2489110

So you call people stupid, you imply they can't follow basic logic, you phrase your arguments as if anyone who disagrees with you is at fault, and then call into question the reading comprehension of others.

And you think you're being the reasonable one?

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>This thread

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>>2488956
150+ replies. 8/10

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Remeber my Bugatti analogy?

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>>2489118

yeah, but I don't think Trixie drives much.

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>>2489114

>>So you call people stupid, you imply they can't follow basic logic, you phrase your arguments as if anyone who disagrees with you is at fault, and then call into question the reading comprehension of others.

>>And you think you're being the reasonable one?

Show me where I ever wrote that anyone was stupid in this thread. You can't because I haven't. It might be implied that I'm not quite sure where their intelligence lies. Or you could be taking my Pinkie Pie picture, which says "NOT SURE IF TROLL OR VERY STUPID", seriously to which I say this is a common picture to post when you aren't sure if someone is trolling or if they really do just disagree for whatever reason. Maybe I should have used a more sensitive picture, I concede that. But anyone who takes that silly picture to heart, even though its an established meme, is really just looking for a reason to be offended.

In a discussion involving logical explanation of the true situation, yes, I will call someone out on their logic. It is not my fault they are being illogical. I am simply stating a fact. If someone finds that offensive then I've probably hit close to home since their first reaction to being called illogical is an immediate emotional response rather than a careful reconsideration of their position with intellectual honesty. That's all I'm asking for here, intellectual honesty and rationality. Being logical and not appealing to emotion or feelings to express an argument one favors.

I don't phrase my arguments the way you say. I phrase them in a way that shows where the facts lie. Facts are facts regardless of one's personal stake in the argument. If those facts are ignored or perhaps the other person is not aware of those facts, then I will politely inform them of this. I'm not sure why you have a problem with trying to keep truth in an argument in the interest of intellectual honesty.

I reiterate that objective as an adjective means:

not influenced by personal feelings, interpretations, or prejudice; based on facts; unbiased: an objective opinion.

Otherwise known as intellectual honesty.

And yes, I said you might have problems with reading comprehension. That is not to say you are slow or stupid but that you may be having a problem comprehending the abstract argument I am constructing using that person's own words and editing them to make them accurate without extraneous opinions about who is bad who is good blah blah blah. Opinions don't matter here, only facts.

So anyway, if you're still offended after ALL THIS reasonable explanation, then I'm not sure what to tell you. It tells me you appeal to an emotional response, which is what I am arguing against. But it also tells me maybe your skin is a little thin and you are just looking for a reason to be offended when in fact, I have not been impolite to you in the slightest.

Anyway, I'm sorry our discussion came to this (although I would like to point out that at least I kept my trip to have responsibility for what I type here), and I wish you well and apologize if whatever I said, though factual, offended your sensibilities.

Even Bronies can disagree sometimes, but the difference between everyone out there and our community is the way you walk away from the argument, respecting the other person's point of view. I do respect your point of view even though I disagree with it. I hope you will read this post with an open mind and understand that I am not here to insult anyone. I am just trying to turn the discussion towards a more rational, fact-based debate rather than the over-emotional drama that I unfortunately participated in earlier in this thread and for that, I have already apologized to the Brony in question. However, I should not have to apologize for asking for intellectual honesty. So I won't, even if that still offends you.

I guess it really is true that you can please some of the people all of the time, and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time.

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>>2489118

No I am not familiar with this analogy. Please go on.

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AndrewCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489125

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I think a lot of you don't watch stand-up comedy a lot. Look on YouTube, and see how professional comedians deal with hecklers. When comedians get hecklers, they jack 'em up, make em wish they'd never been born, then kick 'em out. They have to, because people are paying to see THEM, not the other people in the audience. How many people do you imagine would come back to see you if you're regularly being upstaged by an average citizen at your own craft? The simple matter is she did nothing wrong. She has to oversell herself to keep her audience. Honestly, I don't blame her for doing what she did, and I think to try and justify the way RD, Rarity, and AJ behaved is rationalization at best. Would YOU want to see a showman that was shown up by the crowd?

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>>2489125
When the showman is a complete and utter jackass, yes.

Also, in the case of Rarity, it was *Trixie* who was doing the instigating.

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>>2489127

You have no idea what you are talking about. The audience would rather be entertained than have hecklers ruin the show. Say you were at a concert watching a really cool band that you are starting to like. Then I run up, pull the plugs on the mics and speakers and my friends and I begin telling the band that they suck and you shouldn't listen to them.

Would that not put you off? Be honest.

Andrew is correct. This stuff is very common. You don't see it on t.v. specials because they edit it out. Go to a live comedy club, where they are premiering amateur comedians (some of which are very terrible) and you will see this happen.

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>>2489128

Exactly. No other pony in the crowd seemed displeased except for the mane five (lack of Pinkie makes me sad) and Spike. Seems to me like they were the ones who went out of their way to start trouble.

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>>2489128
Do the comedians physically assault the hecklers?

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>>2489130
No that's usually a bouncer's job.

Trixie has no bouncers.

You do the math.

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>>2489130

You say that as if Trixie beat them within an inch of their lives. She used enough magic to humiliate them and re-establish control over the crowd, and she didn't even assault Rarity, she changed her hair color.

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>>2489127
dude don't be dumb, watch the episode, rarity starts all this.

its like if you go to a show and the performer is a total cock and then you start going all "you suck bro", you cant say "he started it because he was a cock" because if you don't say anything to him nothing happens.

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>>2489129

Which again reiterates what I've said before in the thread. Trixie was meant to be the antagonist. You are SUPPOSED to not like her. Congratulations, guys, you got brainwashed.

Meanwhile, while you are busy hating on Trixie, who has rationale for everything she does, the mane 5 act like juvenile delinquents at a concert and that's all hunky dory. Yes, they had their reasons as well, but to ignore this glaring point is pretty much like Andrew said. Rationalization and denial.

Just wasn't a good way to illustrate the lesson they were trying to put across.

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>>2489133

OMG I read this in Dane Cook's voice. Celestia help me.

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>>2488965

Not a unicorn? What an awesome plot concept.

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Some thoughts I had:

a.)She is a performer and probably has for some time, meaning she has had to focus on spells that awe the audience rather than learning the esoteric secrets of magic. Thus, the fact she can make an actual lightning storm seems to me to be important, she is capable enough to use her mist and mirrors for more than just entertaining. As for her power compared to Twilight, it has already been mention Twilight has been impressed by her display but until Trixie also goes Dr. Manehattan or they decided to do a magic show-off we will never know. As for the Ursa episode, Twilight did go to her library to look up how to deal with Ursa’s and probably had a better idea than Trixie.
>pic related.

b.)As showpony, she must make sure that her crowd is mystified and impressed if she is to make any money (I assume that’s why she goes around doing the show, if not then she truly is a jerk). What does this mean? Her lies, reaction to the main six and her general presentation to others is all part of a mindset she must have gotten from all those years (probably since a very young age) of trying to amaze people into giving her money. Assume she hadn’t responded the way she did, then what? If she had refused to accept the challenge she would have made herself look like a boasting fool and thus her business in Ponyville would have died out right there. Her lies also go with this as you make hyperboles to emphasize your own greatness, such as when the magician say he learn the trick from chinese mystics, in order to make the crowd actually be interested. Now, add years of doing this and you will arrive to a pony with a high sense of self-worth (because she had to break out and get the skills she had on her own) which in general will look down upon people because she succeed in becoming good at what she did, so why not the other ones?

c.)Her cart also tells us a lot. Trixie could easily just settle herself in some place where there is a lot of traffic (Canterlot, Manehattan, etc.) and make a living by making a show every week or so. She having to go around can be seen in two ways: she is unskilled enough to do this; she feels unconfortable staying too long in any one place. Assuming the first one is true, then her cart is just a way for her to escape actual scrutiny of her skills and makes her have to move around a lot, still making the action of the main six wrong but justifying their believe she is simply being too boastful. Now, assuming the second one Trixie then becomes a tragic figure really, as that cart would probably have meant a lot to her as the sign of her personal independence and self-reliance which she acquire through years of practice. This then makes the whole episode be kind of a giant ass ram for Trixie, because the main six quite literary ruined the live she had tried to build.

I’m done.

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>>2489137

Everything I wanted to say and more. Much more eloquent and ordered than I could put across. Well done.

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>>2489137
Wonderfully done...And yeah she's now currently homeless.

I also lean more towards her moving around becuase of her not being comfortable in one place and also maybe the dream of being well known and famous for her magic.

Twilight did say her tricks were pretty good so we do know she was pretty skilled and talented.

Anyway your points are all spot on.

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>>2489137

Can we really assume it's profitable to stay in one place all the time, though? Why do circuses travel all the time? Why do comedians and musicians travel all over the world. Even the most famous and profitable musicians go on tours. Maybe she IS capable of making a comfortable living staying in one spot, maybe she isn't, but people in the entertainment industry (and by extension, Trixie) must be convinced that traveling all over to perform leads to the most profit, and I don't think anypony here believes that trying to make the most of your abilities is a negative character trait. If they do, I will just have to abandon this thread altogether.

After a while, people will stop coming to your performances simply because they don't want to see the same thing over and over again. Best case scenario is the same number of people who last saw you will show up, and that's assuming you're performing in a large city like Manehattan, In any other city, this is likely impossible, and even that is not repeatable on a regular basis in a big city. You always need a fresh audience, and by the time you make your circle around, you need fresh entertainment to get people who saw your last show to see you again.

Tl;dr: We can theorycraft about whether or not she needs to travel all we want, but realistically, she has no choice.

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>>2489116
>>2489124
hahaha, apparently, but my point is still true anyways.

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>>2489142
Mainly because the other conclusion are not too well thought out, demonizing her only works if you take it for granted you are suppose to hate her.

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>>2489141
Also the experience Trixie will probably pick up along the way is a big plus for her performances.
Traveling the world opens your eyes to new possibilities.

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>>2489028

Trixie is in that image FOUR times, my friend.

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Looking at it, there's the off chance that the mane cast are supposed to appear in somewhat the same light as Trixie. Not only does this set up some of the moral of the story (particularly with Dash), but it shows that Twilight has reason to worry. While the others are going off on Trixie for simply running her show, Twilight is stuck worrying about whether the rest of the cast is going to jump her in the same way.

Even though the mane cast is still "on Twilight's side", it could be implied that this flaw isn't just for the bad ponies, but something to watch out for with everyone.

Of course, it could all just be vague story-writing, but eh.

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>>2489142

I know, I was your most ardent supporter

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>>2489137

I don't think Trixie's going to go Dr. Manehatten and experience any special power surges. I've pretty good reason to believe that's something very unique to Twilight Sparke.

If you look at about 1:20 in the Boast Buster's episode, Spike wonders at Twilight Sparkle's magic, explaining that unicorns are only supposed to "have a little magic that matches their special talents." Twilight Sparkle answer: what if her special talent is magic?

In the episode, just look at how well the two of them handled the Ursa Major. Also, pay attention to the nature of Trixie's spells. About the most impressive thing she does is make small rainbow substantial enough to spin Rainbow Dash for a loop.

I think it's supposed to be clear that Trixie's special talent is flashy show magic, all glitz and little substance.

I suppose it's only natural that Trixie has a personality to match. She's a flake, through and through, one whose boasts go far beyond mere showponyship and into the realm of undermining her performance through sheer arrogance.

Earlier, I mentioned that the best way to look at it is could you have written it better, and if so, how? I think my chosen tweak would be to try make it more evident that her show would only really fish in the more simple-minded ponies. Although, how to do this any differently than they already did is a good question - it's pretty clear from the reaction of Twilight's friends they felt this way, but they were outnumbered by the background ponies' oohing an aahing.

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When I think of Trixie I can help myself to not think about Lina Inverse from the Slayers anime series. In fact they're almost the same: they're egocentrical and somewhat vicious and they're both very talented in magic (yeah okay,Lina is a LOT more talented than Trixie XD ).

Anyway,I think that Trixie acted bitchingly because she had to show everyone about her great powers so that could still maintain her notoriety. Sure she could avoid to act like a bitch,but again nobody is perfect in FiM's universe (hell not even Celestia is like that XD !).

Also I won't say that the main six act like bitches,tey were sharing they're own opinions. If it wasn't for RD's ''boo'', Trixie would'nt even notice theme.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1p08hGlDm_Y
relevant.

Warning! Lots of cussing at the end. Most of it is tame though.

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>>2489149

No one's denying that if she was doing this free of charge, that would make her a massive cunt, we're assuming she's doing this to turn a profit, though. If Trixie could hear her from the stage, how well do you think other ponies herd them criticize herd them from a few feet away? While it's impossible to please all ponies all the time, as evident in Suited for Success, but if someone is paying to see you do something, you'd better do your best to try. If one person isn't entertained, and they voice their displeasure, it's the job of the performer to eliminate any possibility that someone else will be unpleased, because that opens the possibility of changing someone's opinion. I bet if you went to go see a magic show and the performer was talking like Fluttershy, you would feel underwhelmed by it because show business is flashy and glamorous, and you have to give off that vibe.

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>>2489148

Somepony once said to me on here that it's possible that Trixie is the antipode of Twilight like Celestia is the antipode of Luna.

So it's unlikely, but POSSIBLE, that her real magical talent is hidden beneath brash boasting and simple card tricks and fireworks and she never really worked at it. I mean can you really see Trixie picking up a book to read about spells for hours like Twilight? They practically mirror each other in many ways.

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>>2489151
I have to say, of all the defenses of Trixie, the idea that she was a secret shock comedian is one of the more desperate grasping at straws.

Here's some of the assumptions I'd have to make for that to work:

* That the creators would have been comfortable with putting a secret shock comedian in a family show.

* That it's in-character for Equestria to have shock comedians. We do actually have an example, that being the comedy interpretation of the CMC's failed performance in The Show Stoppers. But, even then, it's a heck of a stretch from there to flat out insulting your audience. The thing is, that kind of shock humor is what you expect out of a world that entertains snide, sleazy behavior, not a land of unicorns and magic.

* That Trixie's flat out arrogant behavior was supposed to be some kind of shock comedian standup routine (in which case, it was a very poor way to go about it).

That said, if you're willing to overlook all of that, this fairly outlandish interpretation is one of the few ways the logic that Trixie was innocent would work.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489155

>>2489148
Never said she would, just saying that it's futile to say "TRXIE IS UBERPOWERFUL AND WOULD KICK TWILIGHT ASS HURRRR!!!!!!!" because from the episode we didn't get that but going to the other side "TRIXIE SUCKS, SHE CAN MAGIC SHIT HERPPPPPP!!!!" is also as wrong because she clearly has talent on magic, just that she learn what she actually need, flashy spells, after all she is a show pony. Thus, until we get an actual competition, where Twilight and Trixie dunk it out so to speak in their Manehattan state, we can't really make any arguments other than that Twilight was impress by her level of magic and thus she isn't totally incompetent.

Additionally, we have no clue what is trixie cutie mark for, it could mean magic as well as even ponies with similar function (applejack and big mac) have different cutie marks because the cutie marks are also affected by unique things to each pony.

As for your last point, a simple change would be to make Trixie begin the challenging rather than the contrary. Suppose she just went to the crowd and said "you, come up, what your special talent? Cause I can do it better because I'm so great and powerful" humiliates them and then proceed with the main cast booing and all falls into place, trixie becomes an ass, regardless of what has happened on her life.

>>2489153
I think someone made a fanfic about that, elements of discord with trixie as the element of whatever is contrary to magic.

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>>2489154

I'm not saying she is a shock comedian. I'm pointing out an example of an entertainer ( Jim Gaffigan) dealing with a heckler. He made fun of them. He didn't go as far as Trixie, but that's what these people who go out on the road to entertain people have to do. It's practically in the job description.

If you don't understand this, then there is no way for me to get through to you.

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>>2489154

I mean if we want to talk about straws here, that entire post was one big strawman.

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>>2489155
> As for your last point, a simple change would be to make Trixie begin the challenging rather than the contrary. Suppose she just went to the crowd and said "you, come up, what your special talent? Cause I can do it better because I'm so great and powerful" humiliates them and then proceed with the main cast booing and all falls into place, trixie becomes an ass, regardless of what has happened on her life.

Arguably, that's exactly what she did in the episode. The mane cast were talking to themselves in the front row, yes, and Rainbow Dash let out a halfhearted, "boo" right before Trixie calls them out, but there's a least a few of things to consider there:

* Proximity. Sure, the mane cast is in the front row, but at a fairly large distance from the stage.

* A good stage magician wouldn't let a few of hecklers provoke them into making those hecklers a part of the act unless it was originally planned.

* Trixie's performance was annoying them, and it's not really suitable to the personality of Rainbow Dash, Rarity, or Applejack to sit there without comment or quietly leave.

These points applying, just how much instigation were the mane cast really doing here?

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>>2489157
Prove it.

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>>2489154

and another thing:

nopony is saying she is innocent in all this. Good lord why do I have to keep saying this?

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>>2489159

you said I was implying that Trixie was a shock commedian.

I was not. We all know she is a magician. But you built your ENTIRE argument in that post on something I never said was true. You built a straw man to beat my argument. But all you did was beat up something you made up from a simple youtube post showing an entertainer dealing with the heckler
I mean seriously. Come on.

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>>2489156

Exactly! We're not saying Trixie = Jim Gaffigan, we're saying that they have very similar jobs and face very similar problems in their execution of their jobs, and the writers could've done a better job of establishing her stereotype of a showboater less deserving of the BotD.

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>>2489158

all of it.

Without them there to say and do what they did, Trixie would have just done a magic act, get paid, and move on.

They created the inertia of the plot. Without their action, there is no reaction from Trixie.

( would have been interesting to see how Pinkie Pie would have done something about it. She probably would have easily shown up Trixie with her physics-bending and then the story would have been maybe 10 mins tops)

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>>2489160
Maybe you should restate exactly what you're looking to prove here. And no, you shouldn't tell me I'm bad at reading, because I'm challenging you to prove that you still have a point to make.

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>>2489165
I sense troll..... a good one to boot......

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>>2489166
If I was trolling, I wouldn't be asking to get to the point, I'd be looking to drag it out.

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>>2489165

I have already stated my point numerous times. I don't see a reason to restate something you can just scroll up and read again.

Honestly, at this point I feel like I am debating a child. But I'm still going to just love and tolerate even though you're the only Brony on here that has ever made it Nightmare Mode for me.

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>>2489165



read this.

>>2489137

everything he says are my points.

I'm done.

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>>2489166
It occurs to me in hindsight you were referring to him, not me.

>>2489168
Failure to reiterate when requested doesn't exactly elevate you as a pillar of logic and maturity among children. It just reinforces my point that, even if you had stated your point "many times before," I'm pretty sure you lost it along the way, and just don't want to admit it.

"But I'm still going to just love and tolerate even though you're the only Brony on here that has ever made it Nightmare Mode for me!"

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>>2489170

my point is several things, all of which have been discussed on this thread already. Read at your leisure.

I'm tired of arguing with people about this. That's the only reason I'm not reiterating my point. Because I have reiterated it and reiterated until I am blue in the face. That does not mean that I lost my point. It just means there are more people on Ponychan than I thought who cannot grasp the obvious. And so I just don't care anymore.

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>>2489169
> everything he says are my points.

Well, okay, I can sympathize. But if these are the points you've made, do realize that the greater bulk of what's said there isn't exactly a point so much as fan conjecture you support.

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>>2489171
Amen to that. I'm not sure how much love and tolerance is left in my heart.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489174

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>>2489171
I suppose it's only fair if I reiterate my point since I asked you to.

Personally, I've been advocating the straightforward "as presented in the episode" approach that Trixie was 100% wholly in the wrong because I'm taking into consideration that that was the author's intent, which is sort of important when you're trying to establish what is or isn't canon.

That's just my opinion. The thing is, taken into context we're on /pony/ trying to fill the void of pony until Season 2, I don't want to tell you that you're not allowed to make conjectures.

What I do want to tell you that you shouldn't argue with anyone who disagrees[/b] because fan conjecture is not provable.

Whether or not you're aware of it, you have been. Look up this thread where you pulled the "people who disagree with me are bad readers and/or illogical children" card from time to time.

The reason why I asked you if you had a point was because you can't play those cards unless you have a logically provable point to make. However, as you've indicated your point was fan conjecture, you didn't. So why with the logic card?

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489175

>>2489174
....... wait..... what is whole freaking thread about now?

I thought this was all fan conjecture...... then I read this..... so you guys are seriously considering if Trixie was good or bad?

WerewoofyCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489176

>>2488987
I agree with you on all points but the one about Spike. Granted, he could have just dealt with her bragging and went about his business, but then he wouldn't have been acting either in character or like a dragon. Dragon's are exceedingly arrogant and vain creatures, even the good ones. However, with the good and social ones, this vanity also extends to those they deem worthy of being their friends. A true dragon would not be able to just stand by and allow someone to show off and claim to be better than their friends. A dragon would demand that their friends show up the bragger at their own game (especially considering the fact that his friend, Twilight, was a master of the same game). This is simply dragon philosophy and I've been incredibly impressed with how knowledgeable the writers have been when dealing with obscure mythological facts.
On a side not, it really was RD's fault that things got out of hand, but Trixie must take the blame equally for making things as bad as they got. Trixie was just another RD and the two of them were examples of what happens when an unstoppable force encounters another unstoppable force (however, I found it kind of unbelievable that RD would simply leave things how they ended between herself and Trix; if RD had been acting in character, she would have escalated things even further by rainbow tornadoing Trix or something after Trix physically turned her magic against her, but that could have ended up monopolizing the rest of the episode). However, before this even occurred, I distinctly remember Trixie insulting Twilight (and perhaps the entire community) referring to her as "Little Hay Seed". She sought out a confrontation, making her far more than just some poor innocent performer trying to make a living. I'm wanting to see how she returns in season two to reconcile her mistakes and possibly befriend the main cast.

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>>2489175
> so you guys are seriously considering if Trixie was good or bad?

Maybe some people are, but I think the greater bulk are thinking more along the lines of how much of Trixie's arrogance during her performance was just striking back at the mane cast's behavior?

That's a good question. I'd like to see an Equestria Daily poll on it that looks like this:

A) It was all Trixie.
B) About 75/25 Trixie/Mane Cast
C) They were both roughly equally at blame.
D) About 25/75 Trixie/Mane Cast
E) It was all the mane cast's fault for provoking Trixie.

I'm betting the greater amount of votes will be at the top of the poll, towards Trixie blame, because that was the intent of the story.

However, for those who vote lower, I respect their opinion, and I really can't disprove them, per se. At most, I probably point out parts of the episode that might weaken their position because the author's intent would have showed in little touches throughout the episode, but I couldn't establish that it was logically impossible.

But ultimately, the most important thing to remember is this: If it's a thread about fan conjecture and you're taking up every one out of four posts, maybe you should back off a bit, you're smothering your fellow bronies with your opinion.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489178

>>2489177
Considering fanon as is, I don't think you would be right, for example I believe D and see the creators attempt as a feeble one, if they wanted me to dislike trixie for being boastful there are better ways to establish she is just being obnoxious and wrong rather than just feeling insulted by a group of random ponies which try to ruined her ability to make a living.

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that the defense of trixie is based on the idea she is a show pony can be seen as conjecture. Personally, I don't really see who else would live in a travelling cart that unfolded into a showstage with prepared fireworks but stilll valid.

the most well-crafted rebuttal is that we are 'supposed' to vilify trixie leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Dismissing actions to one group and magnifiying others due to percieved "who's supposed to be at fault" is a kind of sheep-like, unobjective method of evaluating a situation that's dangerous if applied in general. The luxury of guessing what the writer meant by the episode isn't a method we can use outside of this context, and for that reason I discard the premise. Besides, for all we know, the portrayal we see, for all its flaws, was the writer's exact intent.

My conclusion is thus: WHY OH GOD IS THIS THREAD STILL HERE?! ABANDON SHIP!!1!

TL/DR? Seriously guys, we've been here and back again like five times now in this thread alone.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489180

>>2489179
Cause we can.
And I am quite certain there will be no more post after this one.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489181

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>>2489180
I'm gonna post just to spite you.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489182

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Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489183

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>>2489174

Last post I am making in this thread because you are being civil. This is my last say in the matter. After this, I will not post in this thread again.

Everything I have said goes like this:

Whether the Author's intent was to make Trixie the "bad guy or not", he did a poor job of doing it. The facts that are not fan conjecture do not support Trixie as a full-on antagonist and actually make the mane cast no better.

What results is a story with a confusing message. It's okay to insult people who are trying to entertain others and embellishing to advertise their expertise. And if that person is homeless, you don't offer to take them in and you throw their possessions in the trash.

The plot centers around the single Ursa Major boast, pretty much the McGuffin. But if that boast had not happened, the mane five had kept their mouths shut and let people enjoy a show that only comes to a small town every once in a while (because it's displayed on a traveling wagon), and Snips and Snails had not gotten the Ursa Minor, none of it would have really mattered. Trixie could have done her show, embellished about the Ursa Major to sell herself and her skill, made her money, and move on. Instead a conflict was created and instigated by the mane 5. They called Trixie out for no real reason. "OMG someone is trying to advertise their skills and bending the truth. We must get bitchy and put her in her place." This makes the mane 5, in this instance, the Mean Girls of Ponyville. They are no less innocent than Trixie is. They heckled an entertainer, gossiping about her in the front row to her face. I'm pretty sure gossiping is considered wrong in most cultures.

So here's how it went. These are facts, not your so-called fan conjecture (and you talk about me pulling cards out).

Trixie is an entertainer.

Trixie has to make money because she lives in a wagon, goes town to town, and has to eat.

Kids come up, heckle entertainer, ruin show for everyone else. All the other ponies are too polite to point this out. In our world, people would have shouted them down and told them to stfu "We're trying to enjoy the show, idiots. Go away and bitch somewhere else." Or a hired bouncer would have gotten rid of them if Trixie could afford that (which she obviously can’t. She obviously doesn’t even have a real house and most likely lives hoof to mouth) But nopony did that because ponies simply do not have it in their nature.

Trixie feels threatened. She has to make money using her natural talents given by her cutie mark. The mane 5 are actually hampering her from doing the job the universe appointed her to. Think about that. What would you think of a pony that burned all of Twilight's books and the library and said gtfo? Or maybe somepony goes into Rarity's shop and tears up all her dresses, ruins her tools ect. Maybe somepony purposely releases a parasite to kill all of Applejack's apple trees. How about somepony purposely sends a hungry manticore into Fluttershy's tree to eat her animals and wreck her house. Or maybe somepony decides Rainbow Dash's just mouths off about how great she is all the time and breaks her wing on purpose in a fit of anger. And let’s not forget how wronged Pinkie Pie felt when she believed her friends did not want to go to her parties, which just so happens to be her speciality. Yeah.

So Trixie goes a little overboard because the Mane 5 have gone extreme in their heckling , which was bad. She loses her temper, which was also bad. She is so caught up in her stage persona and anger that she does not stop to say " Excuse me, I'm trying to do a show here. Go somewhere else if you don't like it. I'm trying to entertain some ponies here." She has a big ego as most entertainers do. Maybe she really does believe she’s the most “magical” pony in Equestria. The word magical could be taken two ways. It could mean she is saying she has magic like Twilight (which we know is not true) or it could be her magic tricks. Hmm let’s see…. Her name is Trixie. She has a wand on her flank. She is obviously a showpony. Which do you think it is? I’m pretty sure she meant her magic tricks.

No, the real lesson in this episode is that Trixie loses her temper because someone mocked her instead of handling it in a mature way such as what I stated above. So she humiliates her hecklers in the most vile way possible. This was not right for her to do. She is not innocent either.

Twilight is scared about her friends thinking she is like the strange new mare from out of town who thinks she's all that so she bugs out, blah blah blah. We're seeing the story from their point of view, so of course it will favor them.

Mane 5 are pissed because Trixie made short order of them after they heckled her. " How dare she do that to us? What a bitch!" when, in fact, the mane 5 brought it on themselves for doing something nopony who believes in friendship and harmony should be doing. What part of harmony is insults and business obstruction? I'd love to know.

However, this point is swept right under the rug and never addressed. " Princess Celestia, I learned today that it's okay to ruin a pony's day if they are a strange pony from out of town and they dare to say they are better than anyone else at their craft for the purpose of putting on a show." The author made the situation far more complex than black and white. You are meant to hate Trixie. And that's fine. She lied to boost her image. She's the "supposed" antagonist set up against the mane 5 by the author. If you do "hate" her, then he did his job well assassinating her character while completely ignoring the wrongdoing of the mane 5. Like I said, congratulations, you've been brainwashed. Great job you did there, letting someone lead you by the nose to believe a character is the black against the white in a shades-of-grey situation.

If you reverse the story and tell it from Trixie's perspective, it makes Trixie a sympathetic and tragic character who lost her temper because of her pride (which by the way, Rarity, Applejack, and Rainbow Dash did as well but that is also shoved under the rug) and got caught up in a disaster that rendered her homeless, made her lose all of her possessions, and made it much more difficult for her to continue her cutie mark calling (which should be noted, drives ponies nucking futs, and further multiplies the damage they have done to her). The Mane 5 come off as stuck up upstarts ruining a show someone is trying to perform. They, along with Snips and Snails, have ruined her life. Completely. For no other reason than that she was embellishing a little to do her job so that she can make money so she can put food in her mouth and go to the next town.

And yet this is shown as okay. This is fine in the author's mind. All this is ignored and shoved under the rug because, frankly, the main characters only matter. They're allowed to make asses of themselves at a show and children are taught that that it is to be okay to be malicious. Someone comes in out of town who is strange and says they're good at something " OMG we need to put so-and-so in their place because we're the ones who are the shit around here. We're going to give them their comeuppance." It’s ridiculous how this part of their behavior is completely ignored.

You can say whatever you want about "fan conjecture" or whatever. I don't care because I've proven without a shadow of a doubt that the story is a muddled shades of grey trying to pretend to be black and white which was my whole “POINT” along. And people who can't think for themselves buy into this half-baked garbage of a story and convince themselves that the point of view that they were shown is the only right one.

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489184

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>>2489183

None of these things I have stated are opinions or conjectures, they are simple facts that can be gathered from the very situation as it unfolded in front of our eyes if you are open-minded enough. Nobody has proven these facts wrong in this thread. In fact, a lot of ponies went out of their way to dance around the idea that the mane five might not be the little angels in this situation we're supposed to buy into. It ruins and warps their world view so it is anathema and must be extinguished.

My view may be unpopular and you may very well believe that in your opinion I am completely wrong. But not everything that is right is popular and not everything that is popular is right.

Think honestly about what I have stated here. Approach it with an open-mind. Observe the situation from other angles like an adult is supposed to do. Consider all the facts and put them in perspective. Contemplate alternative views on the matter and follow them to their conclusions. See the Forest and not the Trees.

That's the last I have to say on the matter. Continue flogging each other over it. I won't be here to give a pile of manure.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489185

>>2489183
I know you already said you weren't going to respond any more, but... well you were just plain wrong on several points.

You talk about having no conjecture, but so much of your post was stuff that never happened on the screen or could be directly inferred to occur from the episode's events.

I'm sorry to be one of the people who has to keep bringing you back, but I honestly believe you need to rewatch the episode more carefully.

Country code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489186

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no one is ever letting this go, I'm guessing. lol.

Sigh AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489187

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I come here looking for overnalysis threads and find this.......
Overnanalysis requires a ceartain distancing from the character, a little insight into many small details to make out any details from.... well.... anything.

This whole thread has been a constant re-interpetration about the same facts seen from different lights. What does that tell you? That the discussion has reached a dead point and repeating them over and over again will do nothing.

Whoever is the anon, you are wrong to simply say "authors had a certain intent, lets just believe that" because overnalysis doesn't work that way. At the end of the day the intent of any person is irrelevant as to how the final results should be perceived, if he did a good job it would be self-evident, otherwise we are left with doubts and thus make up our own to our desire. And that's the crux, to our desire. Coming here to do what you have done fulfill nothing of the above, you appear to do it for the whole sake of getting on a pedestal. Please don't do it.

As for Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpM please refer to the picture, it helps. Don't take this the wrong way but you are being a bit stubborn about the whole thing, mainly because by this point you should have yielded the fact his explanation is just as possible because we lack any canon to prove it either way. You have a theory you like better and others support you, good, but unless you are willing to let yourself be actually interested in another's person argument then why do this to begin with.

As for the actual discussion, amidst all the bickering good points were made, even if some of my ideas were taken and then posted here without letting me know.....

Now don't go hating, I'm just point out a couple of things. Or do hate, but center upon me rather than each other with this silly discussion. Love and tolerance or something like that is your motto right? Do that or something.

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I have canon to support meh now. All arguments are invalid.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489189

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>>2489188
This was the only response that came to me for that.

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489190

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>>2489188
Well shoot, looks like this thread's done. See y'all later.

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489191

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>>2489187

Here I go going back on my promise to leave the thread *facehoof*. I must be a glutton for punishment.

You think I'm being stubborn. I understand that. I have been sticking to my guns ( although I have conceded many points in this thread, but I don't blame you if you don't want to search them out). I believe my view is validated by many facts, some of which MAYBE might be fan conjecture but are grounded in an analysis of the situation. See? I already conceded that.

Fan conjecture is what this board is for, so arguing that I can't use well-founded fan conjecture based on logic to back up my position is like telling a fish they cannot use water to swim. Perhaps that annoyed me a little. We can all be emotional creatures at some point and it can get the best of us sometimes.

I really can see the other interpretations and how they would make sense to people. I REALLY want someone to prove to me that my view is wrong. I would be open to it. So far, I haven't seen it. Here and there, I let some of my argument go.

But for the most part I have not seen much of a compelling argument that says my objective view of this situation as shades-of-grey is wrong. If someone could produce it, I would be glad to change my opinion because that would be intellectually honest and I hold myself to high standards as much as I can, given that we can all be blind about ourselves at times.

I am not arguing for the mane 5 obviously, or for Trixie for that matter. I am arguing for an objective perspective where not everything is black and white in this story. That's all.

I appreciate that you at least acknowledge my points. Maybe I have gone overboard in this thread, but I just feel passionate about this objective perspective. Please do not mistake my passion for anger or dismissal of other views.

In my opinion, I did not break any of the 4 rules in your picture but if I have, I would be open to a lesson in how I have done so.

I feel I have been trying to argue my point in as civil a manner as possible under the circumstances. Very few people were willing to see the "third option" . Some wanted to see it from the mane cast. Some wanted to see it from Trixie. I was dismissed by almost everyone but expected to respect and see their point of view. You can imagine how that would make me feel, I hope.

Anyway, I'll check in the morning (10 pm here) to see what you have posted in response, if anything. To everyone else, I really am open to changing my mind if you can with something that makes sense.
I'm not a total mule. I just felt backed up into a corner.

So... sorry. For what it's worth. Love and Tolerance.

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>>2489191
Brony, when you're 59 posts in a 221 post thread, and have come back the second or third time after you said you wouldn't, you might want to consider if this is evidence that you're a little too emotionally invested to be logically flawless.

You want to talk about being unable to see shades of gray - well, it's been my experience that most Internet forum arguments are everybody agreeing but nobody noticing that they're in agreement. With the exception of the rare radical, I think most of us would agree upon the following:

* Trixie was not an innocent, she was the antagonist.
* Rarity, Applejack, and Rainbow Dash are not acting as politely as one should during a performance and that can be seen as instigation.

So, if we agree on this, what are we arguing about? Which shade of grey we think is the most appropriate. That's going to come down to individual opinion, and I'm fine with that.

Now, I don't mind fan conjecture. It's fun to spin, "what if the Trixie was a lot more innocent than she was portayed in the episode?" I would read that fanfic and maybe even enjoy it if it's well written. However, I wouldn't confuse that for canon, as there's really nothing solid in the episode to base that on other than a 32-second (2:44-3:20) exchange that was intended to explain to the viewer the basis of the moral.

Consequently, your error is this: this can't be an argument because you can't argue fan conjecture is canon without looking like you need to go back and watch the episode again.

Lets say there was an episode in the second season where it turns out the mane cast was wrong about Trixie in boast busters. It would become canon. However, this would carry a heavy cost: the viewer's not going to be able to take their morals seriously ever again, because all of a sudden Boast Busters is one big tragedy. Consequently, it's not likely the developers would do this.

Granted, if the developer reads this, agrees, and suddenly MLP:FIM Season 2 is 23 episodes instead of 24, I'm going to regret every word.

Corn-Pone!71l1sViydECountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489195

File: 130690788892.gif (1.84 MB, 381x421, 129947504958.gif)

Hey guys, what's--

AndrewCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489196

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>>2489193

But I DON'T agree, she was not the antagonist. She was meant to be, but given how poorly this intent was written, I don't believe she was being antagonistic. I can admit my point of view may be wrong, just like some of you reasonable ponies can, but the fact of the matter is none of us can prove each other wrong, and, given our obviously strong stances on both sides of the fence, along with the circumstantial and implied points we're providing, there is slim to no chance any of us will feel a different way at the end of the thread. Thus, I believe it's time for us to /abandon.

Country code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489197

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>>2489196

For the record, and to be as clear and concise as possible I think the Heckling three and Trixie are equally to blame for the show performance, and all come off as antagonistic.

As for you, if you're abandoning why IN LUNA'S NAME DIDN'T YOU SAGE?!?!?

... We're never getting rid of this thread ... *sob*

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489198

>>2489197
Well...... you could ask Rainbow to erased it..... but where would the fun be on that?

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>>2489193
>>2489193

Fine, we're in agreement. You should have stated this earlier. No one else has.

But the reason I was 59 posts (except for a few extraneous ones) was because I was defending my views against those disagreeing with me (and some were a little rude) so if someone is calling you out on your argument, it is only natural you'd have to keep posting to defend your views. If you don't think I have that right then I don't know why we have an image board in the first place. The Mods haven't put me in my place. Who knows, maybe they don't event mind because I am still encouraging discussion on a controversial issue.

I am the opposing view most of the people on here did not agree with. So is the OP. Who will argue for the OP's position (which is my position all along, only modified)?

Everybody who has disagreed with me has been using the logical fallacy, False Dilemma (two choices are given when in fact there are three options )

Perhaps, you would say, I am using the Untestability Fallacy(The theory which explains cannot be tested) which is why you have been attacking my argument with the idea that I am only using Fan Conjecture , to which I would counter the entire Pony board uses the Untestability Fallacy, even LOGOS who gave some very impressive analysises of the universe of the show. This entire board is one big Untestable Fallacy.

Look, you can't come on here and tell me I can't use fan conjecture that is well-founded on what we can infer on a FAN CONJECTURE FORUM, and not look a little silly. With all due respect, I think you're in the wrong forum if you really believe this.

Strutterspry!wb/Jl4TmpMCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2489200

>>2489196

I agree. This discussion is useless at this point.

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Trixie may be the boastful jerk some claim her to be. Trixie may just be misunderstood that others claim. In either case, I would love to see her make a return where we can see more of her personality, as one episode doesn't seem to be enough. Many of the opinions here, imo, are from analysis based on how each person perceives the single episode in relation to their own lives and experiences, as many people, both for and against, are making good points here.

If she returns, and was shown as a pony who, if she was acting like a jerk before, regrets what she's done, then a moral for the episode could be about forgetting the past mistakes and accepting them for who they have become, not who they were. If she wasn't a jerk, and the mane cast were at fault, then perhaps the moral could be about not being so judgmental when you only look at a person skin-deep.

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archived, baby

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2492041

Yeah!!!!!

AnonymousCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2513695

Bump.

Rainbow!Dash.AtShoCountry code: blank.gif, country type: blank, valid: 2513730

bump 1


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