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An open discussion about the state of roleplay on Brohoof


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#1 Verdana

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 05:36 PM

Some recent comments I've seen on the forums and in-game have set me thinking about the state of roleplay here. Several people have expressed the opinion that there is some kind of serious problem with roleplay at Brohoof. I want to try and establish why those people feel there is a problem, and brainstorm some ideas about things we can do to improve the situation.

 

I'd like this thread to be open and free of judgement for the first day or so. That means please don't call someone out for posting something you think is stupid or wrong right away, lets work on collecting ideas for the first few days no matter how right or wrong those ideas are. Then once we have a few ideas posted in this thread we can start really analysing those ideas. It also means, try not to get too hung up on ideas posted by other people. During the brainstorming process it isn't helpful to make elaborate posts about why you agree with someone else, it is much more helpful to post new ideas (to begin with). I'm interested to hear from anyone with an opinion on this no matter their rank on the server.

First I should state I'm not a roleplayer, and as an outside observer things seem to be going okay to me. Roleplays are happening, the new rules look sane, I haven't been made aware of any huge drama in particular RPs. The new moderators haven't got any plans to make any changes to roleplay here because they think it is all fine. Now, if it isn't fine, we can react to that and do something. But if it is fine, it would seem silly to make changes.

I think the mods should not interfere if things are working correctly, but should address problems that arise within the current system of roleplay on an ad-hoc basis. If things are not working correctly because of a systemic problem, the mods should work to change the system.

So, the real question is twofold:

  • Are there problems arising within the current system which the mods should be addressing but are not? If so, why are the mods not addressing those problems? Are you expecting mods to police your roleplays for you? Are you reporting stuff to mods and not getting a response?
  • Is there a systemic problem with roleplay as it exists right now? If so, what is the problem and how should it be resolved?

For both of those questions, the answer may be different with respect to in-game roleplay and forum roleplay.

I'll conclude by noting a few of my own thoughts about the current situation, and where problems might be arising.

Spoiler

Please contribute your ideas, whether they're about general problems or specific situations that you feel should be handled differently.

 

Edit: of course if nobody replies with any comments we'll assume everything is actually fine and keep doing what we're doing :derpytongue:



#2 Rulerofblocks

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:04 PM

Well, I have a couple things I need to get out. Time to share my 2cents on this.

 

This appeals to both in-game and forum roleplays, but more for forum roleplays. The reports forum is there for a reason. If you see something that is not right in a roleplay, or is a violation of the rules, REPORT IT. Bickering between each other will solve nothing. That DOESN'T mean that if something happen that you don't like, you just go and make a report that says "I don't like how he did something with my character, even though it was part of the roleplay, tell him not to do it again" or something similar. You need to examine the situation with care, and decide whether it is appropriate to use the reports forum! We have 3 awesome moderators who will clear the air for you and help you out. I was recently told by an RP mod that a report hasn't been issued in a very long time. They will handle these things fine. 

 

Also, if you haven't already seen the thread another builder made, roleplays are getting kind of directionless. This has more to do with in-game roleplays, but I thought I would share it with you. If you are going to create a roleplay, it should be mostly canon and shouldn't be like, "We found the 8th element of harmony, and their powers combined so we all turned into alicorns and conquered the world, and became the king of England." (I made that up, but you understand my point.)  I've seen lots of roleplays where people just gather a group and set off of an "Adventure" where they all magically find more elements or the mane six dies, or some crazy uncannon things. Having a free world roleplay can be a great thing, IF managed properly. I am not afraid to admit that I've been in some pretty bad roleplays myself, I'm sure most people have. But it's getting a little out of hand, and the occasionally bad roleplay is turning into the 3 bad roleplays or the 5 bad roleplays. The system and rules are amazing, and very direct, but the real problem here is that, people just aren't following them completely.

 

I honestly think all the mods are working pretty hard to make sure that roleplays are fun for everyone, but I just don't see the sparkling appeal of it anymore. I'm never going to expect mods to watch roleplays like hawks, but checking in every now and then works fine. 

 

I don't really forum rp, so I don't really know the scoop on that, but I've heard some opinions, and it isn't very good.

 

I'll try and think up some possible ways to improve it, but the real issue here  is rules aren't being followed as they should be. Maybe more rule enforcement? I just don't see how we could really enforce them any more with only three people moderating the WHOLE RP forums. I also think we could maybe have a few other people watching In-game rp's, that might help out with the overwhelming amount of OP RPs. I'm just brainstorming here, sorry for this long post. I really just wanted to highlight a few issues that have caught my eye.


Edited by Ruwar, 04 February 2014 - 06:08 PM.


#3 Seabreeze

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:49 PM

 

 

 This has more to do with in-game roleplays, but I thought I would share it with you. If you are going to create a roleplay, it should be mostly canon and shouldn't be like, "We found the 8th element of harmony, and their powers combined so we all turned into alicorns and conquered the world, and became the king of England." (I made that up, but you understand my point.)  I've seen lots of roleplays where people just gather a group and set off of an "Adventure" where they all magically find more elements or the mane six dies, or some crazy uncannon things. 

I don't see how this is a problem. No one is obligated to join these RPs (or even acknowledge that they exist, as you can easily stay out of the channel), so if you hate them, make your own. Unless there's so many of them that there's nowhere to RP anymore, there being tons of shitty RPs shouldn't really affect anyone that wants to make a good RP. 



#4 Rulerofblocks

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 06:59 PM

I don't see how this is a problem. No one is obligated to join these RPs (or even acknowledge that they exist, as you can easily stay out of the channel), so if you hate them, make your own. Unless there's so many of them that there's nowhere to RP anymore, there being tons of shitty RPs shouldn't really affect anyone that wants to make a good RP. 

It isn't a ground breaking issue. But it gets rather annoying when you want to do a good RP and all the channels are clogged with, well, those, as you said. And you have a good point, you don't have to acknowledge them at all. I was just giving my opinion on things. It's more of the rule breaking that gets on my nerves, it says in the rules that you shouldn't (or can't, as I should say) break canon, and if people start breaking them, more will start. It's just a chain reaction I'm worried about, and the escalation of it. People might think they can break other rules, too. But you are right, it's not a big deal until it interferes with other players, and it doesn't have to be acknowledged.


Edited by Ruwar, 04 February 2014 - 06:59 PM.


#5 greebster

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:19 PM

Within the limits of canon and appropriate, I do not see a problen with any story of role-play. Just because some people dislike an idea does not mean that others will. I'm still waiting for an Attack on Titan pony crossover, because I am not personally in a position to lead it right now. Roleplays need committed leaders that can easily develop new scenarios, events and ideas for their players. Keep in mind that one of the best ways to engage in roleplay is to have someone who can not necessarily control what happens, but can provide guidance and continuity. Otherwise, roleplays happen to be very disfunctional and die after a short while. I can't stress it enough! Role-plays need leaders, not to just start it up, but to continue it.

#6 Verdana

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:21 PM

I don't see how this is a problem.

I'd like to try and keep the first day or so of this thread for brainstorming please. We can get into discussion of people's ideas once a few more people have posted. Until then I'd like you all to try and resist shooting down (or bigging-up!) anyone else's ideas if you can.

#7 Philly

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:25 PM

Okay, so that's a new problem that you mentioned, having channels clogged. Do you guys often find that there are no free channels?

#8 Rulerofblocks

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:27 PM

Okay, so that's a new problem that you mentioned, having channels clogged. Do you guys often find that there are no free channels?

About 7/10 times i tried to make an rp, they were full. That was a bit back, but yes.



#9 Philly

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:31 PM

Alright, cool. So perhaps we can look into adding more channels, or even a way for specific RPs to reserve channels for certain times? I don't know if that would get complicated, but we could try to give planned RPs priority over the ones that just spring up.

#10 Seabreeze

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:32 PM

About 7/10 times i tried to make an rp, they were full. That was a bit back, but yes.

What do you mean by "a bit back"?



#11 tudexd

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:52 PM

I think the problem has nothing to do with the server itself but the people on it. If people keep making bad RPs is not gonna get out of that I'm yet to see a really good RP like the ones from 2011 when people actually tried to make the RP interesting, instead of a wild goose chase around the server. Honestly most of this problems on bad RP could be solved by making a good one yoursef. One that makes people give a fuck about the RP and try to do their best at it.

#12 Rulerofblocks

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Posted 04 February 2014 - 07:56 PM

What do you mean by "a bit back"?

A month or two ago. But it still happens today, it hasn't changed much.



#13 RunningWolf251

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:07 AM

Alrighty, I was going to stay out of this and I tried my damndest to stay out of it, but this is just going to be some of the things that I can think of off-hand that I had in mind about roleplaying here. I'm not even going to bother right now if it's something someone else has said already, I'd just like to put it all in one spot as I think of it. Prepare yourself. Wall of text separated in spoilers. It took me about 3 hours to write this all together and edit it, and I'd expect you to take time into consideration when you read it. It wasn't meant to be skimmed, it was meant to be digested, and I hope you'll do just that.

 

Pre-edit: One thing I'd like to ask: Is it possible to somehow work with the forum code to save a cache or quick-save of what you type in the reply box every so often? I just had (multiple times) that little frustrating accident where you manage to click outside the box and hit backspace, taking you back to the previous page and erasing every single bit of work you had just done for the past 15 minutes/half an hour/hour/two hours/etc. Is this possible? I don't know enough about bbcode to know whether it is or not, but that would be one of those little things that would make a lot of us happy for a few minutes, especially those of us who've had this happen when you haven't saved something, but you know that you'll never, ever be able to write what you wrote before it was gone again.

 

 

 

 

To begin with, the roleplaying here at brohoof has always, as Verdana said, naturally just happened. Whether we had a roleplaying forum or a channel devoted to it or not, there would be roleplays happening anyways. It happens in life as a spur of the moment thing, though it's generally just short banter between friends and I'm sure most of the time one wouldn't even consider it as 'role' 'play.' Having been a forum lurker here for a couple years and watching just only the roleplay forums for the majority, if not all, of that time, I think I can safely say that over the past three years, roleplay quality has been on an overall slightly downhill slope in terms of satisfaction, overall story quality, and commitment of participants. My reasons for believing this are through my own observations. Shortly after I began to take notice of the roleplays and things here, I realized that the stories presented were generally one of two styles, which can definitely apply to BOTH in-game and forum roleplays:

 

Casual

Spoiler

 

Advanced

Spoiler

 

Stagnation

 

1. What happens, as I see it, is that there is already a very blurry line between the casual and the advanced roleplayers.

Spoiler

 

2. Often times, there is a lack of player x player or player x story interaction that leads to a dead rp.

Spoiler

 

2.2 We, as players, are like babies.

Spoiler

 

3. There's a lack of story.

Spoiler

 

3.2 Crossovers with pre-existing canon not using the canon.

Spoiler

 

4. Rules aren't enforced.

Spoiler

 

5. Lack of interest.

Spoiler

 

6. Seasonal fluctuations.

Spoiler

 

7. Forgetting.

Spoiler

 

 

Things to improve upon

Quality of rp's

Spoiler

 

Commitment, which was mentioned above a bit, but continued down to here as well.

Spoiler

 

Development.

Spoiler

 

The Test.

Spoiler

 

The School

Spoiler

 

The mods

Spoiler

 

Better attitudes.

Spoiler

 

There. I hope that answers some questions about most of our thoughts on the status of roleplay here. A little state of the union, I suppose. If you need clarification, just ask, and I'll try my best.



#14 greebster

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:37 AM

I think the problem has nothing to do with the server itself but the people on it. If people keep making bad RPs is not gonna get out of that I'm yet to see a really good RP like the ones from 2011 when people actually tried to make the RP interesting, instead of a wild goose chase around the server. Honestly most of this problems on bad RP could be solved by making a good one yoursef. One that makes people give a fuck about the RP and try to do their best at it.


As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with Tud on this one. Role-play is down to the creativity of the... creator. It also depends on the role-players to contribute in the best way they can. With their imaginativity. Also, what I mentioned earlier underlines this point. Honestly, I do not see why people blame other things, when it is themselves they should be regarding.

It is simple: Be a GM and keep the role-play interesting. It is no use if you only make a role-play and do not take any future part in it. You have to be committed. You do not make up settings that control your players, but imagine scenes that change the state of play. For example:

Bad = "Ok, now Sophie gets eaten by a zombie and you all have to run into a room and barricade the door."

Good = "Ok, a Zombie has entered the corridor from a side-room, and is now blocking the exit. What do you want to do?"

You see, the bad scenario uses the characters of the other role-players like they are mere pawns to the GM. Don't control other player characters. This is annoying and frankly does not make for good role-playing material as you are doing most of it yourself. Now, the good example introduces something new to the role-players and then gives them the ability to solve the problem on their own. Other players should also not exploit control on other characters aside of their own.

Another great way to be a good GM is to set basic guidelines so that players know beforehand what they can or cannot do. This is not to limit their creativity as such, but rather to keep the role-play more realistic rather than utterly stupid. For example, you may want to mention to players that at least two paragraphs of text would be required, if of course it happened to be forum-side. More commonly, mention the avoidance of over-powered (OP) role-playing.

GMs also are responsible for role-play choices. When on the server, there are limited settings to choose from, so there is only so much you can do. However, on the forums, the GM is fully able to express their creativity. The one rule with making an idea is to design it alone. What attracts a person to a role-play nowadays is seeing an organized pitch that will sell your idea to them.

That's all I have for now. I hope it helps.
In hindsight, though, role-plays can have any structure and nobody should really care. If you dislike a role-play, do not participate.

#15 Night_Breeze

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 04:39 AM

I hate to agree, but it is mainly the people who are the problem.  I forum RP, because I physically can't type fast enough to keep up with most server RP's, and my life is so unpredictable I can't know when I have to jumped up and drop everything.  Some people just drop out of forum RP's when their character is in the middle of an active scene, with no notification of why; and yes, when I'm waiting for someone to post in an RP- I check their profile about 2 times a day to see if they've signed in at all.  If someone actually returns to an RP, it is often hard to get other players to come back.

 

Ex. I was waiting for someone to post to an RP, and then I was reading the 'random thoughts' thread, I say them say that they's about given up on RP's.  But did they post in the RP or the OOC?  No!


Edited by Night Breeze, 05 February 2014 - 04:49 AM.


#16 tudexd

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:35 PM

 "Wait a minute, what? How is that possible? That's not what happens in the show."

 

 

 

Kiba you did your homework very nicely but I found something that really bugged me. It's in relation to the crossover part. The quote above explains exactly what I hate about RP. I absolutely hate when people use canon knowledge on the RP it can bring a lot of metagaming for those who already know the story and what's gonna happen. It sometimes one of your players is a Rules Lawyer. (For those who don't know it's the person who knows everything about a subject in gaming and will argue with you to the end if you got any bit of canon changed) Which they'll most likely ruin the RP. Example:

 

Your party reaches ponyville and meets Little Pip on a shack. The Rules Lawyer would jump at your throat saying. "Well that's impossible because during this time in canon sheis actually doing this this and that." Thus ruining the fun.

 

My suggestion with you don't want mess with the canon too much. Either just use the setting and none of the protagonists. Or do it as I normally do when DMing. I'll start with "It's an alternative reality NPCs won't always act the same way you see in the show or novel. Some things will be different some not. Maybe everything is exactly the same only change is that now there are leaves in the ground, or maybe little pip is actually evil... You don't know" Thus preventing metagaming and using canon knowledge to your favor.



#17 RunningWolf251

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:42 PM

Kiba you did your homework very nicely but I found something that really bugged me. It's in relation to the crossover part. The quote above explains exactly what I hate about RP. I absolutely hate when people use canon knowledge on the RP it can bring a lot of metagaming for those who already know the story and what's gonna happen. It sometimes one of your players is a Rules Lawyer. (For those who don't know it's the person who knows everything about a subject in gaming and will argue with you to the end if you got any bit of canon changed) Which they'll most likely ruin the RP. Example:

Good point. This is also why I usually suggest that people don't use the story from the game/show/book in question, because that story has already been told. RP should be about telling your own story, and if you have to resort to using a story that's already been told, in my opinion, you're likely not doing a very good job.

 

Actually, what you've said is a really good example, and I'm glad you mentioned it. Fallout: EQ is so much of a copy of Fallout 3's story but ponified, and then twisted to some strange mutant creature that only even halfway resembles the actual fallout canon of fallout 3, that it bugs me so much that I can't read it, and I've not read it much further because of that. It kills me that the canon is available for them to make their own original story, but they just had to use the F3 canon and destroy it so that they could be the first to get the title of "Best Fallout Fic."



#18 Verdana

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Posted 05 February 2014 - 02:48 PM

Thanks for all your input so far everyone. There have been some really interesting thoughts posted here already, and I'd like to keep things open before we start responding to people's points in detail please. Lets do that, and stay on topic for another day if we can, I want to give everyone who might be interested in doing so an opportunity to respond.



#19 RunningWolf251

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:32 AM

One thing I've noticed about a lot of in-game roleplays is that more than half of the thing is in ooc, but it's still in the rp channel itself. I know it's hard to break the habit of ooc in rp channels, and it's even part of the rules to try and avoid it when possible, though it's more referencing using it as a local or G chat channel.

 

Server RP channels are not to be used as alternative general chat channels. Do not use RP channels for anything else other than RPs. Violators will be suspended.

 

Would it be of interest to add some sort of ooc channels to prevent this? I know that this happens quite often and in-game rp channels turn into a bit of an ooc g chat. I'm not sure if people would use it in the first place, their reason being that 'it's too much of an inconvenience to type /rpooc "text" or the long way around, but still not uncommon, /ch rpooc, "text", then back to /ch rp.' It could help clear some of the pages of ooc clutter if people were willing to use it or at least move towards it.



#20 Rori

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 10:50 AM

One thing I've noticed about a lot of in-game roleplays is that more than half of the thing is in ooc, but it's still in the rp channel itself. I know it's hard to break the habit of ooc in rp channels, and it's even part of the rules to try and avoid it when possible, though it's more referencing using it as a local or G chat channel.

 

 

 

 

Would it be of interest to add some sort of ooc channels to prevent this? I know that this happens quite often and in-game rp channels turn into a bit of an ooc g chat. I'm not sure if people would use it in the first place, their reason being that 'it's too much of an inconvenience to type /rpooc "text" or the long way around, but still not uncommon, /ch rpooc, "text", then back to /ch rp.' It could help clear some of the pages of ooc clutter if people were willing to use it or at least move towards it.

it's a hard topic, to split things up. it kills at points in time to not be able to do ooc in an rp, i've experienced it before elsewhere.

but it is a interesting idea.

 

now, i suggest a new idea, for reminding new players of important rules.

what i suggest is that we put some sort of an announcement every time you join or leave the rp channels, if possible.

e.g.

"Do not speak out of character in these channels - doing so will get you suspended."

 

or we could do the impossible and invent some sort of system where someone types a ooc command and it goes to an ooc channel

two channels to join is a bit much for some people... maybe auto open it when joining the corresponding channel... idk.

 

impossible, most likely, as i don't have any understanding of plugins for mc chats.



#21 Harakhti

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 12:43 PM

I'd moreso wish we didn't need those and people would actually sit down and read things.



#22 RunningWolf251

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 01:18 PM

impossible, most likely, as i don't have any understanding of plugins for mc chats.

It was just a suggestion, and I honestly don't think it would happen. It would be far too inconvenient for people. It's just that I notice a *lot* of ooc happening mid-rp or after it. Rp's seem to just get placed on pause and some entirely different conversation starts happening, to the point where people are confused as to whether or not an rp is even taking place or just a discussion.



#23 Philly

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 01:37 PM

So as a non-RPer, would you all mind explaining what the issue with OOC text is? Does it make it harder to see the actual RP? Do people often start to chat normally in OOC, taking the focus away from the RP? Does your screen often get filled with off-topic chatter?

 

I was thinking of something simple, like having RP text be a different color so it's more noticeable, which might help make it easier to ignore OOC if you want to, but I don't know if that would fix the issue you all have with it.



#24 tudexd

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 02:25 PM

OOC are the Out Of Character conversations. They tend to be just a few comments on what is going on with the RP and maybe extra information given by the DM. To answer the question of "does it make it harder to see the actual RP?" Depends on the quantity of it. If people are just casually talking about stuff that has nothing to do with the RP, then yes it's very distracting. I can't answer the other two as I don't RP much on the server itself


Edited by tudexd, 06 February 2014 - 02:29 PM.


#25 Philly

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 03:07 PM

So  you're describing an issue with the quality of OOC, not OOC itself. That sounds rather like the difference between casual and advanced RPers again, where the casual RPers are fine with chatting OOC and the advanced RPers get annoyed with it. So this seems like another thing that should perhaps be left up to the GM; if the GM is fine with casual OOCing, then there isn't an issue, and if the GM isn't, they can limit the amount of OOC allowed.

Feel free to correct me if my understanding is wrong!



#26 tudexd

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 04:58 PM

Not quiet quality, because OCC is just casual conversation every RP has it. Is more like how much OCC conversations happen to the point where the RP comes to a complete stop, but I agree that the DM's should be the one to say when the OCC is too much.



#27 RunningWolf251

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:01 PM



So as a non-RPer, would you all mind explaining what the issue with OOC text is? Does it make it harder to see the actual RP? Do people often start to chat normally in OOC, taking the focus away from the RP? Does your screen often get filled with off-topic chatter?

To answer some of this, as a more forum-based roleplayer, yes, it does take away from the focus of the whole thing. It's really off-putting to finally get engrossed in-character and then all of a sudden some side conversation takes precedence over what is trying to be done and you lose that sort of connection you have with your character. At least, this is what happens to me, but I also described to Greebster yesterday that my heart was racing when another player popped around the corner of a building in Dayz. There was a whole lead-up experience where I could hear scuffling on the floor above me. Currently in the alpha of Dayz, the only thing that makes those noises are other players, and being in one of the largest cities in the game, I knew that there was a high likelihood that he or she was armed and took on the kill-on-sight policy, a real buzz-kill in a game featuring perma-death and constant fear of death around every corner. So, with that in mind, I play the game as though I was actually living it, where any misstep will lead to my death. It really pushes me into character and I can feel the situations a lot easier that way. Even though he had no guns or any ways at all to really harm me when he did finally pop around the corner, I get so into my characters in rpg's and rp's that it really just makes the whole experience so much better, and if anything pops up to detract from that, say, severe lag or a graphic/texture bug large enough to pull me out of character, it just really kills the whole enjoyable experience of getting into the character in the first place for me, since I feel that that's the main point of taking on the role of someone else.

 

Also, as you'll see below, yes, it can be very cluttering, especially so in the server because you don't have the natural post separation that you do on the forums. Since the nickname plugin, anything not in the rp channels will show up as the player's name color, though, so even going to local could help solve a lot of the problems, or if there was a way to do an ooc color, that might also be something to keep in mind.

 

 



Feel free to correct me if my understanding is wrong!

The DM/GM definitely has the first and most powerful say in it, but if it gets to the point that players especially or people not even involved in the rp are getting annoyed by it, surely it's getting close to time for the GM to step in and say enough and carry on with the rp itself.

 

The problem with allowing casual ooc is that eventually it has the potential to just turn into a conversation, much like g chat. In some forum rp's I've been in, there will literally be two pages of ooc just trying to discuss some event or action in the game that's up for dispute. This is incredibly annoying, as it's likely that unless it's canon-breaking, it can be worked through in-character. If it can't be, then there should be an ooc thread for that rp either already in existence or made when the ooc gets to be too much. That doesn't mean that three or four ooc responses are bad, but when it takes up a page or two pages, it's too much. Again, this kind of ooc is different from what tud mentioned as a good point, extra details or description for other players just in case there needs to be some extra info, but this doesn't usually end up being a problem.

 

Here's the kind of ooc that I believe is a problem. Pages 13 - 15 have so much ooc that keeping in character can be a bit of a challenge. I know that any of you who play DnD likely have had those games where either a player of the DM were just so out of character that you couldn't get into your own character. For me, at least, that's what happens. I can't get back into character, so my own experience with the rp is bad, and one or two people having a bad time staying in character can affect the rest, and that's one of the reasons why there's usually a bunch of ooc near the end of a dead rp before it's actually declared 'dead.' People couldn't stay in character and the rp lost its interest to them, possibly because of it.


Edited by RunningWolf251, 06 February 2014 - 07:02 PM.


#28 Squint

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Posted 06 February 2014 - 07:44 PM

Sorry to interrupt the train of thought we have going here, but I was asked to post so I'll do so.

 

Kiba summed this up well in his post, but I'll repeat. Personally I don't think the contrast between advanced and casual roleplay should be seen as negative. Yes, as it is the 'blurry line' isn't something we want to see here, but I think instead of trying to pull away from this we should instead try to use it to an advantage. Instead of trying to conform to a middle ground, we should see that yes there are casual roleplays and yes there are advanced roleplays. They don't merge well except in rare circumstances (Uni Days), and it's okay to set them apart. It's also okay to have exceptions, like the previously-mentioned Uni Days, but it's also okay for there to be roleplays like LRTN that are strictly advanced, or roleplays like the introduce-your-character ones that are (usually) strictly casual. Sure, it's an obstacle, but taking the time to build the RP forums with it is a better approach in the long-term than it is to just vault it.



#29 greebster

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 09:07 AM

Speaking of DayZ... yes. There is a real fear in that game, as every decision has an impact on your player character. Where do you go? How to you get there? Why do you need to go there? It just turns out that yesterday I faced my biggest fear on DayZ. I had just reached an airfield where I found a chest holster, a mountain backpack, a mosin firearm and an ammo box. All seemed to be going well when...

The server closed abruptly. I tried to join a different server but I got a new character. My worst fear.

It is pretty much the same with some role-plays. One day everything is going fine and then it goes downhill. How will DayZ prevent me from losing my character in future? They'll fix it. Not only that, but they will make the game more interesting. The same can be said for role-plays. How can you, the player, make role-plays more interesting? How can the GM improve your experience? Working together, that is how.
Sorry for the randomness of this post, but DayZ is a fun game.

#30 Verdana

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 09:13 AM

It's fine to make a comparison like that, lets just not start using this thread to talk more about DayZ :)

 

I guess anyone who wanted to post their ideas has had ample opportunity to do so now, so I'd like us to start examining the points people have raised in a bit more detail now please.



#31 Rori

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:01 AM

Sorry to interrupt the train of thought we have going here, but I was asked to post so I'll do so.

 

Kiba summed this up well in his post, but I'll repeat. Personally I don't think the contrast between advanced and casual roleplay should be seen as negative. Yes, as it is the 'blurry line' isn't something we want to see here, but I think instead of trying to pull away from this we should instead try to use it to an advantage. Instead of trying to conform to a middle ground, we should see that yes there are casual roleplays and yes there are advanced roleplays. They don't merge well except in rare circumstances (Uni Days), and it's okay to set them apart. It's also okay to have exceptions, like the previously-mentioned Uni Days, but it's also okay for there to be roleplays like LRTN that are strictly advanced, or roleplays like the introduce-your-character ones that are (usually) strictly casual. Sure, it's an obstacle, but taking the time to build the RP forums with it is a better approach in the long-term than it is to just vault it.

the only exception would to be to make it an optional choice to join an advanced roleplay, but then nothing actually changes.

 

there is a mix of casual and advanced in every rp, everywhere.

you're introducing your character, you might make posts which are just answer posts to some other char.

you're following a storyline, and your answers could be long and annoying to skim over, and people don't have the time to do this mostly, leading to death of rps.

 

If we did seperate the roleplays, and you can't use any tags (since we have so many already), it still relies on choice of rp, like currently.

everyone has the right to join any rp unless you do not accept them. so make a system in your rp to test the roleplayers.

you could ask for (in apps):

  • experience - listing of rps they're in (like in WB-FWH)
  • a test rp post section to see how they react to a random callout you make for them (although, people will get pissy if you do this, since they want to do the app fast)
  • some other invention that you think is good for your difficulties
  • or, you could just kick them from the rp if they don't listen to 3 warnings. (with love, from us :raritywink: )

this is your own problem to take into your own hands, in your own rp.

most people don't give a sh*t when it comes to casual and advanced rps. they just rp, because they like the rp.

 

 

to everyone,

 

every place that hosts mlp rps has a different system. we are a forum, we are also in-game.

we host rps that are stories, not just casual, because you need something for other roleplayers to catch onto and like.

we don't separate rps by roleplayer skills,because we want a nice happy mixed environment where the new learn from the old.

it's like being put into a high school.

--the oldest, most knowledgeable roleplayers are the year 12's, and the new, less knowledgeable roleplayers are the brand new year 7's--

they are allowed to interact and learn off eachother, in the school grounds at different times during the day.

yes, there are complications, yes, there are fights, there are unrelated things that just happen.

But they learn from role-models, and the role-models are those who choose to set an example for others; a good one too. people who choose to help the new people, by teaching them right from wrong.

your job is to teach them how to rp. just as you may have learnt it- from others- from experience.

you create rps that anyone can join into, and you have the right to accept them in. and you do. because, more the merrier, am i right?

do something for them. help them to know what you would like for them to do. tell them, "i recommend above anything else that you practice writing longer, more descriptive paragraphs in your posts, so you are more guaranteed to get accepted into other roleplays in the future."

is your roleplay a narrative rolepay? who said it wasn't... i don't think it never was. all the events lead up or intertwine into one thing. the story. that thing most people set when posting a new rp. that thing you have a duty to keep to, like most do. yeah, they make short posts that  seem rushed to hell, but they're still adding to your story that could may as well be dead.

be grateful for those who post anything in your rps. if you don't enjoy how they post, tell them, tell them to improve, by practicing.

 

it's not a rule, it's a recommendation, for other people to accept you into an rp, for others to enjoy HOW you rp.

some care, some don't. so if you really want that to change, help the rp forums by teaching them to do the right thing, for the better long run.

we don't need to seperate anything, because, how will people learn?

how would you have learnt? no, you wouldn't have. no one would have tought you anything. no one was there to tell you when you were too OP, no one was there to develop your oc to it's max, and your skills.

no one was there to tell you how to rp. you just kept to your original nature, and people despised you for it, because you never learnt.

 

making a roleplay casual is a choice. it is a free environment where you can just post, with no real important / adventurous story to keep to.

advanced rolepays are optional for those who want to be in an rp with a story.


Edited by sᴉɹƎ, 07 February 2014 - 11:08 AM.


#32 RunningWolf251

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 11:48 AM

The difference between a 'casual' and an 'advanced' rp is less about how both contain posts and both are roleplays, but that casuals are composed almost primarily of less story, more post, less content. Advanced have more story, more or less post depending on the players involved, but more content both in terms of story and character development, on average. The developments between the two are still vastly different. Casual rp's generally don't correct players for going in wacky, non-sensible directions with their development. For great example, werebat hydra ponies, etc. You'll see far less of that sort of thing in an advanced roleplay. In fact, I had never even heard of a werebat hydra pony until I decided to try the more casual style in-game, but that was not exactly what I was looking for so I backed out of it. Again, it's up to the players as to what they prefer, but lumping everything together in one is causing a few more problems than it solves. Like sticking a young boy and young girl in a room together with only one toy, there's bound to be fights over how to use it.

 

But I can't disagree with one thing: casual rp's can be a great way to start a blank slate and make a character through interaction. My first oc here, Miles, was made that way in Xennyk's rp back when I first joined. Honestly, that roleplay literally started out as no more than "Fern is bored, join him!" After so long, though, he reached a decision that enough people had become involved and they craved a story, so he set up a story and the rp took a turn from being a Ponyville life server to being an adventure story. It was a really good experience, and it does show that an rp can go either way if the person in charge is doing their job and makes it clear that they're in charge. The thing about it was that it was such a subtle change, brought about through the dialogue in-rp and it ended up setting down the story and giving the direction and goal. He used the dialogue with Celestia and Luna to do it instead of saying in a post "Here's what you need to do, go do it." So certainly there are multiple ways to go about this, but we're not only looking at the GM's duty here. We're looking at the player's duty to stay committed if the GM decides to up the ante like that. Too often the players 'just want to rp,' but aren't willing to make changes to their characters or their selves to adapt to the story. Adaption is such a big part of roleplaying that it can't really be taught. It has to be felt through experience, but we can't provide the experience if nobody wants to take it. In fact, we've been trying to do it for a long time, but there's just no real way to get it across at the moment if there's no medium to do it by.

 

If they rush through an app, then have they truly developed their character? Have they thought it out or just thrown it together?  How willing are they to change it when we ask? Most of the time, pretty willing, but we can't tell if they understand why we ask them to change it, or if they just change it because someone asked. The OC thread used to be the place that people posted their oc's and then updated it after they finished an rp, adding what they learned or what changed to their stories. As it is right now, a lot of people just use the same oc without ever editing their stories to reflect what they've learned.

 

If the new seemed more willing to learn from the old and try to understand the why's and how's, I think we could be a little better off, but with half the base of the experienced players we used to have here a year or two years ago gone, it's pretty unbalanced between new and old. Like with life, the new don't want to listen to the old. They want to experience it themselves, but a lot of us have already had to go through those little problems already and when we try to explain that it had a bad outcome, it just ends in frustration and drama. And to point it out, it's very out of place to try and correct people if you aren't the GM. If that's what we need, then so be it, we can try to do that and see if it helps, but through experience I've learned that if you're not the GM, it's more difficult to get a point across because you're just another player.



#33 tudexd

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 12:19 PM

A couple things izzy. If you are following a story and you can't be bothered to read the long post that advance the story why are you even in a story based RP in the first place? Seems kinda pointless to me if the RP has an actual story and you don't read it.

About the tags. Yes we can still put tags, and it's not even gonna be that long. AD for advance and CA for casual. besides the tags are only so people know. "This RP is heavy on long posts, don't post one liners"

We are NOT obligated to teach others how to RP, would be nice to do it but it is not our obligation or responsability, I anyone decides to teach someone to RP they are doing from the kindness of their heart not because it's obligation.

Yes I have the right to accept anyone into my RP but I also have the right to deny them, I don't buy the saying "The more the merrier" I rather have quality over quantity. I rather have 3 or 4 people writing an awesome RP then 20 people making one line each post.

And this here is an interesting idea for the DMs if the player isn't posting up to the standards you set when you started the RP give him warnings, if it keeps it up kick him out.

#34 Blazuhira Miller

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:44 PM

Here's the kind of ooc that I believe is a problem. Pages 13 - 15 have so much ooc that keeping in character can be a bit of a challenge. I know that any of you who play DnD likely have had those games where either a player of the DM were just so out of character that you couldn't get into your own character. For me, at least, that's what happens. I can't get back into character, so my own experience with the rp is bad, and one or two people having a bad time staying in character can affect the rest, and that's one of the reasons why there's usually a bunch of ooc near the end of a dead rp before it's actually declared 'dead.' People couldn't stay in character and the rp lost its interest to them, possibly because of it.

Yeah there was a lot of ooc, which is also why we made an ooc thread shortly after that conversation.



#35 Harakhti

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:49 PM

A couple things izzy. If you are following a story and you can't be bothered to read the long post that advance the story why are you even in a story based RP in the first place? Seems kinda pointless to me if the RP has an actual story and you don't read it.

About the tags. Yes we can still put tags, and it's not even gonna be that long. AD for advance and CA for casual. besides the tags are only so people know. "This RP is heavy on long posts, don't post one liners"

We are NOT obligated to teach others how to RP, would be nice to do it but it is not our obligation or responsability, I anyone decides to teach someone to RP they are doing from the kindness of their heart not because it's obligation.

Yes I have the right to accept anyone into my RP but I also have the right to deny them, I don't buy the saying "The more the merrier" I rather have quality over quantity. I rather have 3 or 4 people writing an awesome RP then 20 people making one line each post.

And this here is an interesting idea for the DMs if the player isn't posting up to the standards you set when you started the RP give him warnings, if it keeps it up kick him out.

 

Paragraph 3 makes it sound like you outright associate the length of posts with their contextual quality.



#36 tudexd

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 03:53 PM

Paragraph 3 makes it sound like you outright associate the length of posts with their contextual quality.

From my experiences yes. most of the longer posts normally have much more quality then the ones that consist in one sentence 



#37 Squint

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 04:01 PM

I have to say that Tude is right. Generally, longer posts have greater quality. However, we need to recognise here that a post of good quality means a long post (with exceptions, as with anything), but a long post does not always make for a post of good quality (short paragraphs, rambling).



#38 RunningWolf251

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 04:28 PM

One thing though -- it isn't entirely logical to say a post has to be longer to be of higher quality. It's still possible to shove a lot of information in a single paragraph without crossing 200 words. It's just easier to take in, in most cases, when it's not so compact. It all depends on the person posting too. If people prefer to read a more compact post, I understand that fully. In a lot of cases I've been either too busy or not in the mood to read a long post, but I generally come back to read it all later or before I post a response to it.

#39 High Orbit

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 05:14 PM

The easiest way to add in a simple test of skill to one's RP app is, for me, just making the intro require more things. The current required intro is so blank, I actually write a couple now and then in school just for the fun of messing around with the system.

 

Instead of going with the usual Name, Age, Backstory, Race, do something that'll require them to actually THINK about what they mean when they put in a character in an RP. 

 

You say you want to divide your RP into the "Oh, I want all the pros, and the pros ONLY in this RP". Easy, make your RP app require more detail. Instead of asking for just "Personality", say:

 

List two significant positive character traits: (Traits that one will notice at once upon meeting your character)

List four common positive character traits: (Traits that another RPer's OC will learn to notice later on in RP)

List two recessive positive character traits: (Traits that are hidden at all times, your OC may be hiding them, or they are just commonly overlooked by most)

 

That way, you force one to pause, and think, "Hmm, where does THIS go?" instead of just lobbing a bunch of traits together in a lump and calling that a character. Making up a character on the spot with such detail is hard, and the OC's that pass the test will be all the more fleshed-out.

 

In addition to that, the required time just to fill in an app of this scale will test how much an RPer is actually willing to invest in an RP, judging by the time they have to waste just to sign up.

 

In short, you want a stable RP with good RPers, you make your required application so damn long that only those who are willing to pay the price actually get in.


Edited by High Orbit, 07 February 2014 - 05:18 PM.


#40 Rori

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Posted 07 February 2014 - 09:34 PM

Both types of RP are a great way to enhance an OC.
And with orbit's system, you could test them that much longer.
But that is a choice for you guys, to add to your own RPs.

Also, I didnt say it was an obligation, but a choice. i don't mean you have to do full-on teaching to new players; just do what you normally do, but set a nice example for them to follow, which is optional.
You don't have to go "I'm gonna teach you how to RP"
You can just correct them when they do things wrong.

I'm only bringing up the idea of this already used system where you tell people what's bad and what's not...

If they don't listen, report them.
Use that new subforum, post a complaint about them, yeah.

Test who wants to get into your RP. Anything. Orbits system looks nice enough..

Accept quality over quantity. I'm talking on the forums too, since I don't see it much. I don't care much myself, and I do allow anyone in, as long as they can learn to create longer posts over time to enhance their experience.

New people tips:
Give your OCs life. Describe them, their actions, in the most detail you can as possible!
As well as making other people happy for the length and quality of your post; your connecting with that character that you play. Imagine yourself as your character. Is that behaviour normal? Do you normally talk like "um... Yeah ok" or "oh, yes certainly" I don't see much of the latter IRL, so keep it real too, for the sake of your character.

Post believable backstories and characters.
Most people despise alicorn OCs or anything that just doesn't fit into the casual world of MLP. Most of your characters aren't going to be accepted if they look like a crossbreed with animals or pony species they have never seen in the show. Start off with a unicorn, Pegasi or earth pony, who have simple meanings in their world. If you make a complicated OC, it gets hard to actually stick to what you originally planned or enhance the character itself.
Make sure you know your OC well. If you went out in the world and had no idea who you were or what you were like, you'd never really connect with others, as you don't know if your mean or not, or if you are the one who is shy, and you break that by being all hyper happy and bouncy like pinkie pie and speaking out loud like there's no tomorrow. Yeah, your OCs shy, shouldn't they be like fluttershy and be more sentient and quiet? Yeah, your getting it!
What if you chose to be a DJ. Do you actually know everything about DJs or what they do? You want to make your character realistic, so if you don't know, either learn or move into another type of specialty. Either way no one really cares what DJ OCs do, so you aren't getting anywhere with that sort of OC.

Alicorns- the major minefield for any player.
If you decide to make an OC an alicorn, think very hard about it first. Do you want to get into that awesome RP that doesn't accept alicorns because they are too OP? Or do you know WHY your OC is an alicorn?
What did your OC to to become a alicorn? Oh, a new made up species or country is where it's alicornhood comes from. Yeah. Because anyone can be a queen/princess, am I right? Nope, don't even try to make an alicorn OC without a very good backstory as to why they are all-races-at-once-icorns. They don't have an extremely big impact on the world of MLP, so they don't need alicornhood.
Leave alicorns to places other than the RP forums, for your sake.

I'm just saying this, you don't need to critique it because I already know alot of it is bad or just too negative. Leave it to me please, or ask to add something to the tips. I'll edit it to make it nicer at some point when I read it and think about it more.

#41 Seabreeze

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Posted 15 February 2014 - 03:42 AM

The easiest way to add in a simple test of skill to one's RP app is, for me, just making the intro require more things. The current required intro is so blank, I actually write a couple now and then in school just for the fun of messing around with the system.

 

Instead of going with the usual Name, Age, Backstory, Race, do something that'll require them to actually THINK about what they mean when they put in a character in an RP. 

 

You say you want to divide your RP into the "Oh, I want all the pros, and the pros ONLY in this RP". Easy, make your RP app require more detail. Instead of asking for just "Personality", say:

 

List two significant positive character traits: (Traits that one will notice at once upon meeting your character)

List four common positive character traits: (Traits that another RPer's OC will learn to notice later on in RP)

List two recessive positive character traits: (Traits that are hidden at all times, your OC may be hiding them, or they are just commonly overlooked by most)

 

That way, you force one to pause, and think, "Hmm, where does THIS go?" instead of just lobbing a bunch of traits together in a lump and calling that a character. Making up a character on the spot with such detail is hard, and the OC's that pass the test will be all the more fleshed-out.

 

In addition to that, the required time just to fill in an app of this scale will test how much an RPer is actually willing to invest in an RP, judging by the time they have to waste just to sign up.

 

In short, you want a stable RP with good RPers, you make your required application so damn long that only those who are willing to pay the price actually get in.

I would never, ever join an RP with such a ridiculously contrived personality section.

 

If you don't want bad RPers, it's easy. Only accept good RPers. I don't know why you feel that you need to dissuade people from signing up when you can just reject bad sign-ups. Most of what I'm hearing in this thread seems to stem from GMs simply accepting anyone that makes an application. Quality enforcement doesn't just have to be a global thing, you are responsible for the quality of your RP.



#42 SkimCraft

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 03:37 AM

it is a Little confusing  but understable,i begin in rp world is hard... ty for all help in forum




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