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Rant time, this is why we seem mean! (old thread bumped)


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#1 Ratty

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 03:01 AM

Most small servers are desperate for people, and are not that organized. Especially survival servers, those have something to do for everyone, even those that are not necessarily good builders. You just pick a spot where nobody else is and its yours! And if you have questions, there's few procedures to follow anyway, so its no problem to just ask questions that are documented all over the place.

I looked at May and June 2012 as a sample, and we're at an average of 73 new people joining a day. So that's a brand new person that has never been on the server joining every 20 minutes! Can you imagine what it would be like if we didn't have the limit of 4 greynames!
Anyone that's on much knows that you don't have to wait long before someone that has never joined comes to visit.

So after the 20,000th new person to join (not exaggerating, that is how many people have visited), it has driven some of us to madness to have to read things to people. So someone might join, and ask "how do I build", even when we have a dedicated world for teaching new people where to find information, yet they STILL think we enjoy "helping" them by just reading the information to them. If there was some profit to this, things would be different, but we are not.

And the part that really makes me furious is they leave thinking we're mean. I wish I could just explain to each of them that we're simply burned out on being asked to explain the same thing over and over and over and over and over. How would you like to explain the same thing to new people? Would you just work a shift for free? And how long could you do it, for a day, 2 days, a week? A month? A year? Nobody here has that kind of time for what is basically a free thing. Most of us would rather do other things.

I hope this helps explain our side of this, and why we are not very nice to people that ask us to read the directions to them. Those people will surely not read this, since they don't read any directions, but hopefully others on the server may have read it, and can help spread the word. We get a new person every 20 minutes, so we would appreciate it if they would just read the directions instead of asking. Spread the word.

And the final point, most new people will just leave and never come back after joining.

71 new people a day join
21 get promoted to freebuilder
8 ask for cmc rank

So the main problem is that flood of new people that have no intention of building anything, they are just so overwhelming. It would end up just being a full time job for the admins if we sat there and hand held every new person that came in, only to have 80% of them never come back. The admins would rather do other things like build!

This is why I push people to exploring other servers so much, the focus of the server is to build really nice looking things, anything outside of that is not why we are here. If people hate reading, and want to just "play minecraft" the normal way, there's other servers that are good for that. I don't even mean that in a mean "get the hell out of here" kind of way, but think of it like TF2 servers, you don't have to just only play on one server! See what else is out there! We're a special server where we want the best builders, obviously we are not for everyone! But please don't hate us for it.

#2 Snopes13

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:15 AM

Since admins can teleport other to other places without permission they could just tp the annoying players who ask to the rules and say "Read or leave" xD tehehehe

#3 shhh

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:27 AM

Since admins can teleport other to other places without permission they could just tp the annoying players who ask to the rules and say "Read or leave" xD tehehehe


Agreed. But then they would still have to go to the trouble of teleporting them every time to that place. Finding a solution is going to be difficult...

#4 CraftyAllie

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 05:59 AM

I was such a doofus when I first joined the server. Annoying the admins with my questions and all...
I never stopped to think about how the Admins felt about answering my stupid questions. Now I feel bad. ^.^;
Apology hug?
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#5 Spirit

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:40 AM

I was such a doofus when I first joined the server. Annoying the admins with my questions and all...
I never stopped to think about how the Admins felt about answering my stupid questions. Now I feel bad. ^.^;
Apology hug?
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I don't get the image.

#6 Snopes13

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 06:47 AM

Well how about we have the warps at the end of the info thing and don't give grey manes the permission to tp or warp?

#7 Ratty

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:17 AM

The way it works now is there's a "quiz" world where it explains to read www.brohoof.com/info or type /help for help, and its pretty hard to escape without knowing that. When they pass that, they end up in the spawn world.
We're already trying to force people, but I think those that leave just think we're jerks, so I don't consider that a success.


#8 Snopes13

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 07:19 AM

Oh cool I like quizzes I want to do the quiz :D

Edited by Snopes13, 03 July 2012 - 07:19 AM.


#9 imnotparanoid

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:49 PM

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Very well said

#10 deactivated-333333333

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 12:59 PM

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I agree entirely with you.
I have had to lead an ignorant greymane through how to join step by step, and it is not an enjoyable experience, I agree.


(imnotparanoid, mine is cooler than yours).

#11 hxfthxft

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 01:13 PM

I have read the post and agree with Jasplosion. Even i have seen some greymanes who don't do anything, some of them were AFK.

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(nope, mine is best)

Edited by hxfthxft, 17 September 2012 - 05:17 AM.


#12 deactivated-333333333

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 02:28 PM

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#13 gyzyh

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 02:34 PM

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agreed Ratty, and of course agreed Jas

#14 Golfmann

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Posted 03 July 2012 - 02:46 PM

I know that myself, being an avid minecrafter & brony I am very passionate about building an accurate equestria. I think that those who really want to be a white or greenmane have to really want it and perservere.
I am practicing constantly to become a builder because i want it so badly!


Edited by Golfmann, 03 April 2013 - 12:34 AM.


#15 Ohman95

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 07:40 AM

Reminds me of a server I visited once. It had a spawn jail which was littered with signs of rules and such. The "jail" was in stages, and you had to use a chat command to go to the next "room". The fun thing about it was the the commands where written on the signs, so you basically had to read through everything to be able to get out of the jail.

Also,

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#16 WonderDash

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 01:37 PM

Yeah, I feel for you there. I think most of the hate comes from ban appeals, and how ridiculous topics can get while admins are just doing their job. I still can't believe that you guys are running this without profit. That's a true hardcore brony right there. Have any of you considered adding a "donate" option on this site. I'm sure somepony is willing to support you guys after years of hard work you guys have done.

Just a suggestion :-|

#17 Drauken

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 02:03 PM

Ratty refuses to take money for it, if I remember right. At least partially to avoid dealing with tax laws.

Edit: Ah, I should point out that it's not out of laziness, but the fact that it would cost money to get a lawyer to wade through all the legal restrictions and whatnot.

Edited by Drauken, 04 July 2012 - 02:09 PM.


#18 Seabreeze

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Posted 04 July 2012 - 03:31 PM

Ratty has had a bad experience with accepting donations for running servers in the past, so he's not going to accept donations without a good accountant to assure him it's legal.

#19 Krash

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:22 PM

An idea could be taken from certain developers/meshers on a site called IMVU. Some people have developed what they call "Noob Traps" Says what it is really, But It's a cunning device that can weedle out the people who will beg and whine for exactly what you do have time for. I suppose that'd be a huge time waste. Might be effective for the long run though. Possible slightly mean though...

#20 Distortion_

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 08:43 PM

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agreed, not only do they think admins are mean. they think the server is shit too because no one is holding their hand and walking them through all the steps.

#21 Ms.Harshwhinny

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:12 PM

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very true I have helped a few new plays through. I know how frustrating it must be to deal with that daily. I have also had the unpleasant time watching some new players get angry for no one helping them through the process despite them saying they have read the forums, many result to spamming chats asking for help. inevitably just leaving or getting into trouble for spamming even though they should know the rules about that since they said they read the threads...

Its very sad how ignorant some people are at times...

Maybe when the writable books come out we could use that to the advantage of limiting this:
Making a master book with the rules of server and when someone joins for first time that book is in there hands when they spawn with a wooden sign that says read the book for info and rules of server... just food for thought..

#22 Krash

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Posted 11 July 2012 - 09:24 PM

I choked on my tea when I saw that GIF x_x
Well Played Distortion, Well played.

But yes, it is overly ridiculous to be asking to be "read out" instructions. Either way they're going to have to read them off of a screen. If anything it's less effort to simply read rather than bug other people. It's just some people for some bizarre reason don't have this little thing most people know as common sense, or even common courtesy for that matter. That or they're just plain lazy. I'm not meaning to be horrible, I myself only joined 6 or 7 hours ago. But from the few minutes I got to spend in the server before I got DC'd and lost my spot was kinda... I'm not sure It just had an air about it. -STILL waiting to get back in to the server ;_; -

Edited by Krash, 11 July 2012 - 09:24 PM.


#23 RunningWolf251

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 12:25 AM

I like rant threads! And tea, but I don't like the ignorant in-bred idiots of the internet. I've had to help a couple people with instructions on how to make an application before, which ended up with them wanting all my opinions on their sub-par submission houses when they were accept that were so terrible that it was impossible for me to even begin to try to attempt to tell them, and I don't blame you for not wanting to do it, half the time they don't even pay attention to the help you're trying to give them, which makes it even more frustrating. Or they're just too stupid to understand. If you're gonna ask for something like "help" on the internet (I know, "help" is hard to come by on the internet anyways) at least act like you're old enough and/or care enough to pay attention to the person taking the time to give the help. I mean, come on, if the time has obviously been put into it, why would you willingly ignore ALL of it? It's already been made easy for you, why can't you just accept that, rather than try to make it easier? You're making it harder for the rest of us, and you probably enjoy it too, which makes it worse and I want to strangle you to death with a string of frozen mini-sausages.

This is what I imagine them looking like when I see them on my interwebs.

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Choke on that one for a little bit, I did the first few times I saw it with no warning.

Spoiler


#24 Hieros Godhead

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:09 AM

Blargh, now I feel awful for being questiony when I first came on. Also, I would like to apologize to Sammich, for my consistent failure to keep my mouth shut when he does something perfectly normal that I just happen not to agree with. Sorry Sammich!

#25 RunningWolf251

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:19 AM

It's not awful to have questions, honest questions are ok. It's awful to come on and ignore that some questions have literally been answered thousands of times and pretty much everything is outlined on the forums and access to that help is plainly stated on the server and the forum, but people still ask those questions because they didn't take the time to look at what was presented to them.

#26 Cleminjon

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 02:51 AM

It's easy to understand that it's pretty damn hard for a handfull of admins to control hundreds of people. I guess some people dont get that :P

Edited by Joniclem, 12 July 2012 - 02:52 AM.


#27 Hieros Godhead

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 03:07 AM

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very true I have helped a few new plays through. I know how frustrating it must be to deal with that daily. I have also had the unpleasant time watching some new players get angry for no one helping them through the process despite them saying they have read the forums, many result to spamming chats asking for help. inevitably just leaving or getting into trouble for spamming even though they should know the rules about that since they said they read the threads...

Its very sad how ignorant some people are at times...

Maybe when the writable books come out we could use that to the advantage of limiting this:
Making a master book with the rules of server and when someone joins for first time that book is in there hands when they spawn with a wooden sign that says read the book for info and rules of server... just food for thought..

Only if I get a copy! Bookworm awaaaaay!

#28 Krash

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Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:31 PM

I like rant threads! And tea, but I don't like the ignorant in-bred idiots of the internet. I've had to help a couple people with instructions on how to make an application before, which ended up with them wanting all my opinions on their sub-par submission houses when they were accept that were so terrible that it was impossible for me to even begin to try to attempt to tell them, and I don't blame you for not wanting to do it, half the time they don't even pay attention to the help you're trying to give them, which makes it even more frustrating. Or they're just too stupid to understand. If you're gonna ask for something like "help" on the internet (I know, "help" is hard to come by on the internet anyways) at least act like you're old enough and/or care enough to pay attention to the person taking the time to give the help. I mean, come on, if the time has obviously been put into it, why would you willingly ignore ALL of it? It's already been made easy for you, why can't you just accept that, rather than try to make it easier? You're making it harder for the rest of us, and you probably enjoy it too, which makes it worse and I want to strangle you to death with a string of frozen mini-sausages.

This is what I imagine them looking like when I see them on my interwebs.

Posted Image

Choke on that one for a little bit, I did the first few times I saw it with no warning.

Spoiler


The size o' Dem Nostrils! -Eye twitch-

#29 Ratty

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:07 AM

Just updating this old thread, we're now up to 215 new people a day average, even with the guest slots set low. (Looking at this month only).

Spoiler


So it just rages me when I see people complain about not being able to get on, they obviously have NO IDEA what it is like answering the same questions over and over, no matter how hard we try documenting it and forcing people to read it. They just feel entitled, so if we ignore them, they feel the need to tell everyone how mean we are.
So we simply CANNOT just open the throttle unless the admins are ready to just plan on doing nothing else that day but process new people.
Then there's the matter of the rate submission houses get built, its already hard enough to keep up with that as it is.

It would not be a problem if even most of these people would read the directions. If people would just spend even 10 seconds trying to find the answers, by either doing /help or reading www.brohoof.com/info, this wouldn't be a problem.
To those people that DO read, and just have us add them, I say THANK YOU! If we have to check for an intro post that isn't there (so many people think they just have to make a forum account), its just really demoralizing, since our time was just utterly wasted when it didn't have to be!

We even redid the quiz world (/warp quiz to check it out), but a lot of people that exit that immediately ask how to build. Its amazing.

#30 CraftyAllie

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 05:37 PM

I still like the idea of having a server rulebook in-game
If anyone asks redundant questions, just tell them to read their book. 

There could be one for general rules, one for submissions guidelines, and maybe one for misc rules and warps.

The books could be un deletable until one becomes a freebuilder (or even a CMC or builder) so the rules would always be accessible.

Just my two cents.



#31 Mewly

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 06:20 PM

I still like the idea of having a server rulebook in-game
If anyone asks redundant questions, just tell them to read their book. 

There could be one for general rules, one for submissions guidelines, and maybe one for misc rules and warps.

The books could be un deletable until one becomes a freebuilder (or even a CMC or builder) so the rules would always be accessible.

Just my two cents.

They could add it to /kit starter, but unfortunately if they're not listening to people telling them to type /help I don't think they're going to listen to people telling them to open a book.



#32 Shroom Agent

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 06:31 PM

Bah Hum-buck to this post.

Edited by Shroom_Agent_27, 20 January 2013 - 07:02 PM.


#33 Ratty

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 08:24 PM

I still like the idea of having a server rulebook in-game
If anyone asks redundant questions, just tell them to read their book. 


/help
There's also signs all over the spawn world, and the forum post, and a training video. I'm skeptical adding a 5th copy of the information in another format is going to help. The problem is lazy people that just want to be served, who get butthurt when refuse to help them and ask them to just read first.

#34 Luigi

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:02 PM

Let them rage. I can't stand people who refuse to read rules and expect to be treated like customers in a restaurant. 



#35 RunningWolf251

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 09:09 PM

The way I see it may seem harsh at first, but I've found this to be true in many things, music being the most obvious example to me to use here.

 

There are two types of people in this case: those who get it and those who don't. Those who get it are the ones who have the common sense enough to realize that there is a natural order to things in life and games/internet is not an exception. They will have a general idea that there is something they need to do before they sign up and will search for it accordingly. The other half of people are those who just don't even think about it. The lazy self-centered people who believe that the internet was created to serve them as opposed to them putting in their piece and getting their reward. I've found that the information either simply doesn't get through or it takes adequate coaxing and forcing before it takes, this then transferring to anything they do which requires them to go out of their way for something. Their worth is usually measured in seconds or minutes before they run out of drive.

 

On to the music example to simplify it... In music, there are the above two types of people: people who can and people who can't. I don't intend to sound harsh, but there are literally people who can play a certain instrument and people who just can't. All musicians fall under both categories. There are instruments I would love to play but I just can't get the grips of it. The difference between this type of failure and the failure mentioned above is that the effort is made but no favorable results visibly occur. Spending more time and energy on it might not always help, but this leads us to the other half of the discussion: those who can. Those who can are the ones who seem to just pick something up and spend fifteen minutes or so before they've got the hang of it. They're the ones who are genuinely interested in learning and using their talent. Not to say the ones who can't don't have genuine interest, but those who are simply in it because they were lead there (the kids whose parents make them be in band when they don't really want to be, which will take the temporary similarity to those who just don't get the rules above) just don't have the genuine interest or desire to truly put the time or energy into something, and will therefore be nothing but a hindrance to those who do. In the end, this is supposed to be some sort of explanation of what we're dealing with for those who might not understand.

 

The bow on the present that I'm trying to present here being that those who don't want to be here make it obvious by not being observant enough to show their care or desire to be here. Those are the ones who should simply be asked of their desire to follow the rules when they ignore them in the first place, seeing as they ARE presented multiple times and in the most obvious places one would look and would have to be a fool or just careless to ignore. Even on my first visit to the forum before I joined, I could clearly see the rules and expectations for both server and forum. I had never been here before and I still knew where they were, but I also had a desire to be here and knew they would be in plain sight.

 

So, what I propose is helping those who desire to be helped and simply coming out and asking those who ignore the help presented if they even want to be here or not. If they choose to ignore the help again, remove them so those who do want to be here can have the opportunity. Harsh, yes, but if all new people are pampered, why would those who continue to come expect any different?



#36 Haxorizer145

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 10:08 PM

I really hate when the guests post in support "I can't join because solts are 4/4" I mean seriously, that is just clogging up support.

#37 Npaws

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Posted 21 January 2013 - 04:06 AM

The first time I joined I think I read most of the rules and I got through fine except for 1 stupid question I asked.



#38 Distortion_

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:42 PM

Let them rage. I can't stand people who refuse to read rules and expect to be treated like customers in a restaurant. 

Well I'd agree with you but if you'd let them rage they'd be causing unnecessary drama and a big commotion because they feel neglected. I think this will result in more frustration than them asking. This is just a really tough and annoying situation.



#39 Luigi

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 05:50 PM

Well I'd agree with you but if you'd let them rage they'd be causing unnecessary drama and a big commotion because they feel neglected. I think this will result in more frustration than them asking. This is just a really tough and annoying situation.

Then ignore them and let them rage to themselves.

Edited by LuigiIsHungry, 22 January 2013 - 05:51 PM.


#40 Distortion_

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 06:41 PM

Then ignore them and let them rage to themselves.

even though we wouldn't mind, others might find the commotion annoying. I personally think you're right but I wouldn't want them spoiling other people's fun by spamming caps "HOW DO BILD".



#41 Xeadin

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Posted 22 January 2013 - 08:19 PM

Let them rage. I can't stand people who refuse to read rules and expect to be treated like customers in a restaurant. 

 

There comes the medium of complete ignorance and catering them with a spoon. Neither situation is ideal because of convenience, so the idea is where to draw the line to make it balance out. Unfortunately, many people don't see that line and expect to go one way or the other, which doesn't really work out in our favor very well-- that is where the source of the drama comes from, and is what Ratty and the rest are trying their best to balance out the medium of ignoring and spoon-handling players.




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