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IT'S FINALLY TIME FOR POLARIS TO GET A GRAPHICS CARD


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#1 Prince Polaris

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:26 AM

Well guys, It's time.

 

Time for me to get a Graphics Card.

 

The computer is Here, and what I plan to do with it is here:

-Minecraft
-TF2
-Minecraft
-Other 3D games
-Minecraft

-That's about it

 

It can't be too expensive, and I hope you all find a good one!



#2 Captain Char

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 01:45 AM

Whats the board slot type? either AGP or PCI-E I imagine

512mb PCI-E here goes for 15$

Edited by Captain Char, 18 March 2014 - 01:46 AM.


#3 Luna Lens

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:54 AM

The board has a PCIe x16 slot.

 

If you want to keep it cheap, I suggest either,

http://www.amazon.co...=radeon hd 5450

Radeon HD 5450 about $30 (USD). It's not very powerful, but it'll play TF2 and Minecraft, Keep in mind though that the 64-bit bus will limit the card severely.

or,

http://www.amazon.co...=radeon hd 6450

Radeon HD 6450 about $40 (USD). This should give you better performance, but it probably won't boost your resolution or your AA. Again, it has a 64-bit bus. 

 

Now, you could look on eBay, I got my Radeon HD 4850 for $40 (USD) after shipping, which isn't too bad for a high performance card, even though it is an older model. I won't post any eBay links, though since prices and products are constantly changing. If you look for AMD cards, keep in mind the numbering system. The thousands place is the generation, the hundreds place is the level in the generation, the ones and tens place are the performance level. This means that the 5450 and 6450's biggest difference is how new they are. This also means that an old 3650 will destroy a much newer 5450, but I don't think you'd be insane enough to spend that much money and such an old GPU.

Since you are looking to spend the least amount of money possible, I would suggest you avoid new nVidia cards. AMD has had a better price-to-performance ratio for some time now.

 

Also, here's a site that compares GPUs. They're all theoretical values, but it'll give you a ballpark estimate as to how a card will perform relative to another.

http://www.hwcompare...d-6450-oem-1gb/


Oh, just for reference, take a look at the service manual and scroll to page 9.

 

ftp://ftp.dell.com/Manuals/all-products/esuprt_desktop/esuprt_dimension_desktops/dimension-5150x_Service%20Manual_en-us.pdf


Edited by Laser_Lens_4, 18 March 2014 - 02:52 AM.


#4 Prince Polaris

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 02:58 AM

All right then, Research time!



#5 Captain Char

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:00 AM

Ive got a 1gb GeForce laying around here

#6 Reverie

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 03:45 AM

*snip*

This is solid advice- No low-priced NVidia cards are going to match the price-to-performace of inexpensive AMD cards, save perhaps a GT 640 you catch on sale. A 64-bit interface isn't going to be that much of an issue in this case- I think other bottlenecks will pop up first with this particular computer.

If you go the path of getting a new card, you can use the list-by-price feature of PCPartpicker.com in the video cards section to find a comprehensive price sheet of most major retailers.

 

Regardless of where you look, I would try to avoid mail-in-rebates when shopping. Regardless of how good they look, they're often a very time consuming process that leaves you unhappy at best.


Edited by Reverie, 18 March 2014 - 03:46 AM.


#7 Captain Char

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 05:45 AM

my GT 430 is doing well for what its classified as

#8 JoyJoy

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 07:33 AM

I have the same, and it's done well for the price.  Though I'm looking forward to an upgrade soon.



#9 Ratty

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 09:17 AM

You could try craigslist and see if anyone has any cheap GPUs.

#10 Asriel Dreemurr

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Posted 18 March 2014 - 12:35 PM

I once had an old Intel celeron mono core 2gb of ram, and a HD 5450. I still have that GPU as a tester infact... Either way, I can say that a it can run tf2 and what not... Good luck anywho

#11 ZeBraffels

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 02:49 AM

My pickings through Newegg:

 

Refurbished Asus 5450 (64bit) = $24 /w free shipping

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814121718

 

New in box, Zotac GT630 (128bit) = $60 + $3 s/h
http://www.newegg.co...N82E16814500316



#12 Luna Lens

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Posted 21 March 2014 - 03:30 AM

I would go with the 5450. Not only is it cheaper, but the GT630 probably won't even be compatible with your hardware, and if it is it'll just be bottlenecked by your processor.

#13 Prince Polaris

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 03:05 PM

Well guys, I'm going with the 5450, and I have one last thing I need help with.

 

I have 4 RAM slots in this computer, two of them have white clips, two of them have black clips.  [I still don't know why]

 

Anyways, I currently have two 512MB cards in it, meaning that I have a wimpy 1GB of RAM, which drags this computer down to the point where sometimes it's doing worse than old 2003 did.  I need to get 4GB of RAM for it.  Anyway, I need to know exactly what type of RAM to get, and what kinds of Cards to get.

Do I need two 2GB cards?  Do I need four 1GB cards?  Do I need just one 4GB card?  And what kind of RAM, ddr1, 2, or 3?  I don't really know, so I hope you all can help.


Edited by Prince Polaris, 22 March 2014 - 03:05 PM.


#14 Limey the Kind

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 03:33 PM

It's probably DDR2 at a guess. The different color clips denote what order the ram will be searched for, you should install memory in matched pairs. If you have one 4Gb stick in the wrong slot it won't get detected, if you have four 1Gb sticks then it doesn't matter, if you have two 2Gb sticks then they will need to be in the correct slot.

 

parta126.jpg

 

It says on the online manual your computer supports 4x1Gb


Edited by Limey, 22 March 2014 - 03:49 PM.


#15 Luna Lens

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 04:20 PM

This is straight from the service manual

 

 

 

Type 400-MHz and 533-MHz DDR2 unbuffered SDRAM
 
 
You need 4x1 GB 533 MHz DDR2 SDRAM. That means it's going to be abhorrently slow, but that's the fastest the motherboard will take.
 
DDR2 RAM is rather expensive. I found this 2 GB kit for a relatively low price
 
The same company sells a 4GB kit, but they literally just send you 2 packages, so you're better off paying for 2 2 GB kits (it's slightly cheaper). Now, if you just want to buy one kit, 2 GB should get you by for a while. Windows (XP and 7) 32-bit shouldn't use up all of it, and so it'll leave more than enough free to run Minecraft and Source games.
Again, you can always look for used RAM, but there is the risk of getting faulty sticks. With my experience, this kind of stuff has pretty high failure rates, so you want something that'll be easy to return/something already tested and guaranteed to work.

DDR2  RAM is pretty pricey compared to DDR3. I got 8GB DDR3 for the same price as 4GB DDR2.


Edited by Laser_Lens_4, 22 March 2014 - 04:21 PM.


#16 Prince Polaris

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 05:05 PM

 
DDR2 RAM is rather expensive. I found this 2 GB kit for a relatively low price
 
The same company sells a 4GB kit, but they literally just send you 2 packages, so you're better off paying for 2 2 GB kits (it's slightly cheaper). Now, if you just want to buy one kit, 2 GB should get you by for a while.

 

Well, how about I get one of these Kits, And put these Two 1GB cards in the two Slots that my 512MB cards are in.

Then, I'll put the 512MB cards in the Other Slots, and I'll have 3GB of RAM! Will that work?



#17 Limey the Kind

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 05:10 PM

I don't see any reason why not, if they have different frequencies the system will just run at the speed of the slowest pair.



#18 Prince Polaris

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 05:18 PM

Awesome, 3GB will be plenty for everything I'll be doing :D



#19 Luna Lens

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 05:27 PM

That will work, but your sticks won't be running at maximum efficiency.

Just make sure to install the larger modules in the A slots or you'll have problems.

 

If you get a blue screen, try pulling out sticks to identify the problem.

You can also burn Memtest to a boot CD and use it to test your RAM.


Edited by Laser_Lens_4, 22 March 2014 - 05:31 PM.


#20 Prince Polaris

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 05:31 PM

The white ones, right?



#21 Luna Lens

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 05:32 PM

that is correct



#22 Prince Polaris

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Posted 22 March 2014 - 05:37 PM

All right, I've put the Card and the Kit into a Ducument, and I'll give it to my Dad later- I hope he doesn't mind buying things online.

 

I'll use this thread again if I need anything else, which I might.



#23 Prince Polaris

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 08:21 PM

Ok guys my Dad went and got a 2GB card, so which slot should I put it in, and which slots do the old 512MB cards go in?



#24 Captain Char

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 09:16 PM

depends, usually I put my largest stick in slot or bank 0

#25 Prince Polaris

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Posted 23 March 2014 - 09:31 PM

Ok, I got the RAM working fine, I now have Three GB of RAM!  And now I'm just trying to pick out for complete certainty what Graphics card to get, I'm so sick of 8 FPS on Tiny, I want 30 FPS on Far.



#26 Luna Lens

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 12:01 AM

Remember, if you have problems, use Memtest and burn it to a boot CD to run tests on the memory.



#27 Sky Jazz

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 12:20 AM

Ok, I got the RAM working fine, I now have Three GB of RAM!  And now I'm just trying to pick out for complete certainty what Graphics card to get, I'm so sick of 8 FPS on Tiny, I want 30 FPS on Far.

With 3GB RAM, the odds of being able to get 30 FPS on far are slim, I have issues running far on 6GB on my system. Minecraft is extremely RAM heavy, a GPU is going to benefit the other graphics settings more.



#28 Luna Lens

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 01:08 AM

Not at all. Vanilla Minecraft shouldn't need more than 256 MB of RAM. Minecraft is much more reliant on your CPU. The reason Polaris gets such poor framerate can be attributed to his processor. His Pentium D is pretty much a dual-core Pentium 4, and Minecraft isn't optimized for multi-core processing, so for practical purposes, he's running a Pentium 4, and Pentium 4 is total crap, thus Polaris' game gets terrible framerate.

#29 Prince Polaris

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 02:14 AM

So a Graphics card isn't going to do anything for me?

 

If so, what kind of Processor can I buy for this thing?  My main concern at the moment is multitasking and Minecraft, so if a new Processor is what I need, then that's what I'm getting.  But which one do I need? Is a Quad-Core Possible?  Are Processors extremely expensive?



#30 JoyJoy

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 03:05 AM

CPUs are dependent on what the board supports.  Since you have a Pentium D, which is a LGA-775, you may not have too much current CPUs to work with.  NewEgg only has one item that may work.  It's decent for the price, but I suggest trying other places that sell better CPUs for that socket.



#31 Luna Lens

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 04:07 AM

A core 2 duo could physically fit in the socket, but I doubt your motherboard's BIOS will support it. I faced this problem as well when I wanted to upgrade. The solution was to get a new motherboard.

 

Basically, you're stuck with that processor.


Oh, and about the whole GPU issue. A GPU will help, but only if the one you have is crap (which it is). In your case, a new GPU should help you out quite a bit in Minecraft



#32 Prince Polaris

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 04:13 AM

Al right then, and this one would do me good?

If so, then all I have to do is get my Dad to order it, and It'll be here in a while, I guess!



#33 Luna Lens

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 04:29 AM

It should work, and since it only uses 20 watts it shouldn't tax your power supply too much.

#34 Prince Polaris

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 04:50 AM

Ok, how would it do in Minecraft?

Like, what FPS would I get at each Render Distance?



#35 Asriel Dreemurr

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 05:51 AM


I remember having a 2gb system. A mono core celerom which was clocked at 3.03ghz. And with that GPU. I remember getting 20-30-40 fps to memory. But it will lag a lot at times depending where I was. Or what I would be doing.
This was on normal render I believe. But remember there is always optifine.
Good luck anywho.
PS. That was on a old version of minecraft

#36 ZeBraffels

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 06:55 AM

Ok, how would it do in Minecraft?

Like, what FPS would I get at each Render Distance?

 

 

This is near impossible to answer with so many variables involved.  The only true answer is that 5450 will be better than what you currently have in use.  Check out youtube for "5450 Minecraft" and you'll see others with that video card.  Difference is that they have a more modern cpu than you.

 

I once had an Acer Travelmate with 2GB RAM, 1.8ghz dual core cpu upgrade and an x200.  Thing ran like a pig with an average of 10 fps in minecraft singleplayer, lowest everything.

http://www.newegg.co...N82E16834115262


Edited by waffels, 24 March 2014 - 07:07 AM.


#37 Harakhti

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 07:53 AM

Even a 3.3GHz 45nm Pentium Dualcore is a bottleneck if you ask me. The 5450's fine as long as it's not passively cooled, in which case You'll need a cooler for it. Here's what I mean by badly cooled...

IMG_20140105_182432.jpg

Managed to get it on a stable 140F with that.



#38 Luna Lens

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 01:57 PM

Even a 3.3GHz 45nm Pentium Dualcore is a bottleneck if you ask me. The 5450's fine as long as it's not passively cooled, in which case You'll need a cooler for it. Here's what I mean by badly cooled...
*snip*


The card uses 19 watts at max TDP, I think passive cooling will do just fine.

As for framerate, I would estimate somewhere between 15 and 30, at least in Minecraft. In TF2, at 1366x768 with no anti-aliasing with other settings on high, I would guess anywhere from 20 to 35. The bottleneck really is that processor, but unless you get a new motherboard, you're stuck with it.

#39 Reverie

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 03:13 PM

What is possibly most important is to make sure that once you get the 5450, you update your drivers accordingly. Not doing so will leave you sorely disappointed, and you won't be using the card to anywhere near its full potential.

 

As much as I personally dislike CCC, I would probably recommend using the auto-detect feature AMD has on their website here.

 

Speculation about frame-rate isn't something we should be doing, seeing as I've played Minecraft between 10 to 20 fps on celeron integrated graphics before. Keep in mind that minecraft, although technically multithreaded, tends to run single-threaded operations. A Pentium 4 may perform a bit better than we give it credit for, especially if this one has two discrete cores as opposed to hyper threading. As Waffels noted, there are really just too many factors to determine how your computer will perform at this time.


Edited by Reverie, 24 March 2014 - 03:13 PM.


#40 Captain Char

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 05:57 PM

I haven't bench tested my Geforce 9400GT in mc

It would be competing against my GeForce GT 430

Edited by Captain Char, 24 March 2014 - 05:58 PM.


#41 Prince Polaris

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 07:17 PM

Ok then, I'll get the 5450!



#42 Captain Char

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Posted 24 March 2014 - 10:50 PM

cool, hopefully you can get a fan model

#43 Prince Polaris

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 12:52 AM

Ok, My dad will Probably want to get the Card at Staples, so is this the right one?



#44 ZeBraffels

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 01:58 AM

Ok, My dad will Probably want to get the Card at Staples, so is this the right one?

 

Yes, that is the correct one.

 

A slightly cheaper alternative is the XFX 5450 with half the memory (512mb) $33.99

http://www.staples.c...oduct_IM1KL6036


Edited by waffels, 25 March 2014 - 02:01 AM.


#45 Prince Polaris

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Posted 25 March 2014 - 02:13 AM

Ok, if he says anything about the Price, I'll revert to that one there.



#46 Super Ultra Uber C00l Dood

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 09:43 PM

How about, if you buy the GPU, you spend some time with it.

 

In the mean time, Micro - ATX motherboards are ridiculously cheap, you can buy one of those easily, of course, with maybe an AM3+ socket CPU. 

 

 

I found a nice one, in my opinion. http://pcpartpicker....ard-ga78lmtusb3

 

The motherboard uses PCI-E x16, so you can use the 5450. In the meantime, still use your system. You only have the motherboard. 

 

While you spend maybe a few more months or so, you could get an FX 6300. Really good processor, and stuff. 

 

Finally, DDR3 RAM is cheaper than DDR2, so you can get 4GB of DDR3 RAM, if you find a cheap enough kit that fits your needs.

 

Just a thought.



#47 Luna Lens

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 10:08 PM

How about, if you buy the GPU, you spend some time with it.

 

In the mean time, Micro - ATX motherboards are ridiculously cheap, you can buy one of those easily, of course, with maybe an AM3+ socket CPU. 

 

 

I found a nice one, in my opinion. http://pcpartpicker....ard-ga78lmtusb3

 

The motherboard uses PCI-E x16, so you can use the 5450. In the meantime, still use your system. You only have the motherboard. 

 

While you spend maybe a few more months or so, you could get an FX 6300. Really good processor, and stuff. 

 

Finally, DDR3 RAM is cheaper than DDR2, so you can get 4GB of DDR3 RAM, if you find a cheap enough kit that fits your needs.

 

Just a thought.

 

This is still a 200 dollar build, and it's basically a new PC. 



#48 Prince Polaris

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Posted 26 March 2014 - 10:16 PM

Yeah, the only reason I have This PC is because someone gave it to me.




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