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So why does this server have Elitism.


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#1 Prismatic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 04:33 PM

I've been online and offline for a few years and one of the things that bothers me here is that this place promotes Elitism...Just...Why? For a pony server I'd think stuff like that would be nonexistent.

#2 Sapphire_Lynx

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 04:42 PM

Care to elaborate your point? What exactly gives you that thought?

#3 Prismatic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 04:50 PM

Care to elaborate your point? What exactly gives you that thought?


To me, don't get me wrong, I've always preferred having one tier of users. The difference between people who can and cannot build due to the first hurdle of joining is fine.

Having multiple tiers of people who are top of the line vs. those that fail (that are essentially declared second rate citizens) to me just feels wrong. I don't mind if people fail but flagging it to me insinuates it.

The third one is that if you look at my post, the poor feedback received to me is a form of weeding out. I say this because I've dealt with it for 6 years and haven't found a reason to improve if it's something I cannot use.

#4 maxaminus

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 04:51 PM

I assume you're posting this because you failed your submission test.

Exclusivity promotes quality. It's the reason people want to be here instead of the other pony servers.

The point of the themed worlds is faithful recreation of locations in the show. If we let everyone who wanted to build in Equestria to do so, it would look terrible. You should see some of the submissions that people make.

Anyway, we have a freebuild area that everyone can participate in, and everyone is welcome to visit. It's not like you're not welcome to our parties or anything.

#5 Prismatic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 04:52 PM

I assume you're posting this because you failed your submission test.

Exclusivity promotes quality. It's the reason people want to be here instead of the other pony servers.

The point of the themed worlds is faithful recreation of locations in the show. If we let everyone who wanted to build in Equestria to do so, it would look terrible. You should see some of the submissions that people make.

Anyway, we have a freebuild area that everyone can participate in, and everyone is welcome to visit. It's not like you're not welcome to our parties or anything.


I cancelled because I got something that was totally useless in return.

There's nothing wrong with all of the above you've stated which isn't the point I'm aiming at.

#6 Jutsy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 04:58 PM

Having multiple tiers of people who are top of the line vs. those that fail (that are essentially declared second rate citizens) to me just feels wrong. I don't mind if people fail but flagging it to me insinuates it.


Have a better solution? This server is made to be high-quality and as close to show-accurate as possible. We let people who still love the server and ponies build in freebuild. It might just be me but when I look at the chat and see white names talking with green names, I don't see tiers or second-class citizens. I see people on the server enjoying themselves. If you're suggesting we just remove the colors, that's a bit on the "ridiculously offended" side.

The third one is that if you look at my post, the poor feedback received to me is a form of weeding out. I say this because I've dealt with it for 6 years and haven't found a reason to improve if it's something I cannot use.



You weeded yourself out because of your poor attitude. He even gave you a second chance to improve it and you threw it back in his face. You should always strive to improve by the way. No-matter what it is you're improving. Being mediocre gets you nowhere.

#7 Prismatic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:03 PM

Have a better solution? This server is made to be high-quality and as close to show-accurate as possible. We let people who still love the server and ponies build in freebuild. It might just be me but when I look at the chat and see white names talking with green names, I don't see tiers or second-class citizens. I see people on the server enjoying themselves. If you're suggesting we just remove the colors, that's a bit on the "ridiculously offended" side.


You weeded yourself out because of your poor attitude. He even gave you a second chance to improve it and you threw it back in his face. You should always strive to improve by the way. No-matter what it is you're improving. Being mediocre gets you nowhere.


It's kinda hard to have a good attitude when you're expected to work with "you suck." I haven't improved in anything I've done for about 6 years now. Sad, but true.

#8 Jutsy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:06 PM

Have a better solution? This server is made to be high-quality and as close to show-accurate as possible. We let people who still love the server and ponies build in freebuild. It might just be me but when I look at the chat and see white names talking with green names, I don't see tiers or second-class citizens. I see people on the server enjoying themselves. If you're suggesting we just remove the colors, that's a bit on the "ridiculously offended" side.


You weeded yourself out because of your poor attitude. He even gave you a second chance to improve it and you threw it back in his face. You should always strive to improve by the way. No-matter what it is you're improving. Being mediocre gets you nowhere.


It's kinda hard to have a good attitude when you're expected to work with "you suck." I haven't improved in anything I've done for about 6 years now. Sad, but true.


Then you are clearly not the kind of person who would enjoy being on this server. So you interpreted the process as elitism because you can't deal with yourself being at fault. As I said before. He pointed out your problem areas and gave you a second chance, you threw it back at him and stormed off.

#9 Prismatic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:12 PM

Then you are clearly not the kind of person who would enjoy being on this server. So you interpreted the process as elitism because you can't deal with yourself being at fault.


Failing is not the issue. Saying it's OK to treat entries as crap (which comes off as disliking a person unfortunately) is fine then that makes sense.

The fact of the issue is that even with the retry there was nothing that could be done. "Improve" without anything else doesn't get us anywhere. If I were a pony I wouldn't have tons of furniture around because I am longer laterally than taller. It's been months since I've played MC (granted that doesn't help) but I'm not aware tables nowadays were a fence with a pressure plate stuck on top (most of what I've done is before fences were stackable).

My only solution would be to use the same wording and tone to any and all submissions. Even if they are poor. Coming off in spite when reviewing (this is not just one person in game mind you) doesn't do anyone anything.

#10 maxaminus

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:17 PM

Then the nuts of the matter isn't our processes & procedures, it's that you feel you were treated rudely. Is that right?

#11 Jutsy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:18 PM

Then you are clearly not the kind of person who would enjoy being on this server. So you interpreted the process as elitism because you can't deal with yourself being at fault.


Failing is not the issue. Saying it's OK to treat entries as crap (which comes off as disliking a person unfortunately) is fine then that makes sense.

The fact of the issue is that even with the retry there was nothing that could be done. "Improve" without anything else doesn't get us anywhere. If I were a pony I wouldn't have tons of furniture around because I am longer laterally than taller. It's been months since I've played MC (granted that doesn't help) but I'm not aware tables nowadays were a fence with a pressure plate stuck on top (most of what I've done is before fences were stackable).

My only solution would be to use the same wording and tone to any and all submissions. Even if they are poor. Coming off in spite when reviewing (this is not just one person in game mind you) doesn't do anyone anything.


You do realize there are entire towns of houses built by approved builders. Why didn't you go look at them and see what they had that yours didn't exactly? There is a common sense to this that I believe you're missing.

Not to mention we've had plenty of players come and go, and this is the first time I've heard any mention of elitism.

The fact of the issue is that even with the retry there was nothing that could be done.


I just want to single this out and make this abundantly clear. If this is your attitude, this is not the server for you.

#12 Prismatic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:23 PM

Then the nuts of the matter isn't our processes & procedures, it's that you feel you were treated rudely. Is that right?


Right. Your processes and procedures are understandable and I have nothing against them (from a WoW perspective I've dealt with raiding which has even more insane requirements including age from time to time).

It's more or less there were two houses reviewed at the same time. The fact that I failed does not bother me. What got me is how others (more than one) bashed my house in a nonconstructive manner.

Not to mention we've had plenty of players come and go, and this is the first time I've heard any mention of elitism.


This is just my personal experience, but in most of the 'creative' projects and internet activities I've always felt a lot of people lived in fear of offending another person. This is especially true of artwork, RP and stories (My sister told me someone said someone else's art wasn't the best and they went into a rage). I think if anything that's why 'feedback' is so hard to obtain from both sides. People don't want to nail it on the head and people just don't want to hear it.

#13 Jutsy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:32 PM

Then the nuts of the matter isn't our processes & procedures, it's that you feel you were treated rudely. Is that right?


Right. Your processes and procedures are understandable and I have nothing against them (from a WoW perspective I've dealt with raiding which has even more insane requirements including age from time to time).

It's more or less there were two houses reviewed at the same time. The fact that I failed does not bother me. What got me is how others (more than one) bashed my house in a nonconstructive manner.

Not to mention we've had plenty of players come and go, and this is the first time I've heard any mention of elitism.


This is just my personal experience, but in most of the 'creative' projects and internet activities I've always felt a lot of people lived in fear of offending another person. This is especially true of artwork, RP and stories (My sister told me someone said someone else's art wasn't the best and they went into a rage). I think if anything that's why 'feedback' is so hard to obtain from both sides. People don't want to nail it on the head and people just don't want to hear it.



Why didn't you request constructive criticism in your submission thread after Rah's post? You made no effort on your end of that thread to let us know you truly wanted to pass a house and become a builder. In fact your second post relays the opposite.

#14 Prismatic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:37 PM

Why didn't you request constructive criticism in your submission thread after Rah's post? You made no effort on your end of that thread to let us know you truly wanted to pass a house and become a builder. In fact your second post relays the opposite.


Cause it was 1AM and I was agitated at the time.

Plus, I tend to assume it's not available based on my above statement which is my fault.

#15 imnotparanoid

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:41 PM

Get your filthy nong reen hands away from me urchin!

#16 Jutsy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:43 PM

Why didn't you request constructive criticism in your submission thread after Rah's post? You made no effort on your end of that thread to let us know you truly wanted to pass a house and become a builder. In fact your second post relays the opposite.


Cause it was 1AM and I was agitated at the time.

Plus, I tend to assume it's not available based on my above statement which is my fault.


It isn't anymore. Someone so quick to agitate usually doesn't make it to builder anyway.

Not to mention we aren't getting paid for this. Constructive criticism is something that may or may not happen. This is not a job for us. You have just as much responsibility to ask for constructive criticism as we do to give it.






Moved this thread to the drama forum.

#17 Prismatic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:48 PM

It isn't anymore. Someone so quick to agitate usually doesn't make it to builder anyway.


Dealing with the exact same scenario for the last 6 years gets old.

Being paid or not shouldn't make a difference. It's like if I choose to partake in large scale activities in my MMOs there are underlying responsibilities. One doesn't have to do them, which is true, but at the same expensive it'll unravel like I've seen time and time again.

#18 Jutsy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:53 PM

It isn't anymore. Someone so quick to agitate usually doesn't make it to builder anyway.


Dealing with the exact same scenario for the last 6 years gets old.

Being paid or not shouldn't make a difference. It's like if I choose to partake in large scale activities in my MMOs there are underlying responsibilities. One doesn't have to do them, which is true, but at the same expensive it'll unravel like I've seen time and time again.


The point of my post was the last line of my last response to you.

And as for this. Generally when people with bad attitudes/traits leave it's a good thing for our type of server. I believe we've already approved two submissions today as well. The process is proven to work and had given us some great builds. There will always be people who come in and have problems because they didn't try on their end.

Dealing with the exact same scenario for the last 6 years gets old.


Dealing with submissions and the people that make them can get old as well. But the ones that shine make it worth it.

#19 maxaminus

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:54 PM

Since you haven't actually asked us to do anything, I can only conclude that you're venting, and don't have any particular goal or agenda in mind. That's fine.

Your complaint has been heard, understood and noted. We good?

#20 Prismatic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 05:56 PM

The point of my post was the last line of my last response to you.

And as for this. Generally when people with bad attitudes/traits leave it's a good thing for our type of server. I believe we've already approved two submissions today as well. The process is proven to work and had given us some great builds. There will always be people who come in and have problems because they didn't try on their end.

Dealing with submissions and the people that make them can get old as well. But the ones that shine make it worth it.


I shouldn't have to point out the whole 'treat others like you want to be treated' but I'll add it just in case. If one treats one badly they should get the same reply.

Since you haven't actually asked us to do anything, I can only conclude that you're venting, and don't have any particular goal or agenda in mind. That's fine.

You complaint has been heard, understood and noted. We good?


There isn't anything to be done, quite frankly. As a lower tier there isn't anything I can realistically request.

#21 Sapphire_Lynx

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:01 PM

The point of my post was the last line of my last response to you.

And as for this. Generally when people with bad attitudes/traits leave it's a good thing for our type of server. I believe we've already approved two submissions today as well. The process is proven to work and had given us some great builds. There will always be people who come in and have problems because they didn't try on their end.

Dealing with submissions and the people that make them can get old as well. But the ones that shine make it worth it.


I shouldn't have to point out the whole 'treat others like you want to be treated' but I'll add it just in case. If one treats one badly they should get the same reply.


This isn't about treating people badly in any way. We approve those that have the skill needed to build and do not allow those that cannot. It's like going into the military with no experties and asking to be put in as a sergent. It won't happen for the good of everyone else, but they're free to do other things. Just because the title is higher, no man is better than another.
We treat people how they deserve to be treated, like you say. Those that treat us or our users badly are treated exactly the same, those that have the enthusiasm and attitude, no matter how skilled they are, will be treated well.

#22 maxaminus

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:04 PM

There isn't anything to be done, quite frankly. As a lower tier there isn't anything I can realistically request.


Suit yourself. If that's the case, what are you hoping to accomplish here?

#23 Jutsy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:04 PM

The point of my post was the last line of my last response to you.

And as for this. Generally when people with bad attitudes/traits leave it's a good thing for our type of server. I believe we've already approved two submissions today as well. The process is proven to work and had given us some great builds. There will always be people who come in and have problems because they didn't try on their end.

Dealing with submissions and the people that make them can get old as well. But the ones that shine make it worth it.


I shouldn't have to point out the whole 'treat others like you want to be treated' but I'll add it just in case. If one treats one badly they should get the same reply.


You weren't treated badly. Second-chances aren't exactly common.

#24 Prismatic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:10 PM

You weren't treated badly. Second-chances aren't exactly common.


Most of it stems from in-game. Just the forum post was the icing on the cake. If it was strictly in-game I would of just ignored it but the remark about "No effort" doesn't exactly sound pleasant. The house I live in now doesn't have a lot of furniture to begin with nor does MC have a whole lot to my mind when it comes to furnishing.

#25 Jutsy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:12 PM

You weren't treated badly. Second-chances aren't exactly common.


Most of it stems from in-game. Just the forum post was the icing on the cake. If it was strictly in-game I would of just ignored it but the remark about "No effort" doesn't exactly sound pleasant. The house I live in now doesn't have a lot of furniture to begin with nor does MC have a whole lot to my mind when it comes to furnishing.


Whole towns, built by approved builders, full of examples.

#26 Sapphire_Lynx

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:14 PM

You weren't treated badly. Second-chances aren't exactly common.


Most of it stems from in-game. Just the forum post was the icing on the cake. If it was strictly in-game I would of just ignored it but the remark about "No effort" doesn't exactly sound pleasant. The house I live in now doesn't have a lot of furniture to begin with nor does MC have a whole lot to my mind when it comes to furnishing.

Precisely why we say to build an average Ponyville house, it gives those with the initiative the chance to take a look through the current Ponyville and get some inspiration. A lot of tricks are used for furniture around here.

#27 Prismatic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:16 PM

Whole towns, built by approved builders, full of examples.


Which should of been used in his post rather than the remark.

Precisely why we say to build an average Ponyville house, it gives those with the initiative the chance to take a look through the current Ponyville and get some inspiration. A lot of tricks are used for furniture around here.


Which is probably something I should of done. I was only using the information from the show in judging my decisions rather than what's here. I wasn't sure how plagiarism is tolerated so I rather not risk anything in the process.

#28 Jutsy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:21 PM

So I just went through the chatlogs. Rah gave you suggestions yesterday in-game and I saw no signs of mistreatment whatsoever. Then later..


2011-11-02 09:30:35 So what do the different colors mean?
2011-11-02 09:30:54 Green = Accepted.
2011-11-02 09:30:58 And White?
2011-11-02 09:30:59 Re =Admin
2011-11-02 09:31:02 yay
2011-11-02 09:31:14 white is before you've made an intro post, i think.
2011-11-02 09:31:18 no
2011-11-02 09:31:26 Dovakin has arriced
2011-11-02 09:31:28 white is a failed submission
2011-11-02 09:31:31 cj bland...
2011-11-02 09:31:34 Right.
2011-11-02 09:31:35 yes?
2011-11-02 09:31:38 lol so this server has Elitism?
2011-11-02 09:31:43 Ha.
2011-11-02 09:31:47 Elitejack :£
2011-11-02 09:31:51 you are here
2011-11-02 09:32:03 BRB again
2011-11-02 09:32:07 yes...
2011-11-02 09:32:11 Oh well


I would like to point out that CJ isn't responding to you there.

But that is one hell of an assumption. Apparently having ranks that not only protect our server but allow those who have proven themselves to be competent builders to build in the main attractions of our server is elitism.




Whole towns, built by approved builders, full of examples.


Which should of been used in his post rather than the remark.

Precisely why we say to build an average Ponyville house, it gives those with the initiative the chance to take a look through the current Ponyville and get some inspiration. A lot of tricks are used for furniture around here.


Which is probably something I should of done. I was only using the information from the show in judging my decisions rather than what's here. I wasn't sure how plagiarism is tolerated so I rather not risk anything in the process.



Common sense.










If you have nothing left to add with your next post. I'm locking this thread.

#29 Prismatic

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:27 PM

So I just went through the chatlogs. Rah gave you suggestions yesterday in-game and I saw no signs of mistreatment whatsoever. Then later..

I would like to point out that CJ isn't responding to you there.

But that is one hell of an assumption. Apparently having ranks that not only protect our server but allow those who have proven themselves to be competent builders to build in the main parts of our server is elitism.


Considering we were dealing with the submission anyhow.

Unfortunately based on my submission thread it is not an assumption. There shouldn't be any reason regardless of quality that warrants a poorer response. It's like taking an exam. Whether or not a person makes an A or an F is consistent for all students and if teachers do put in feedback they don't 'pick' on any students.

As I'll state I shouldn't have to deal with the exact same problems that I've looked at in the last 6 or so years. Which I'll just end with that the Internet is full of this, but I thought bronies were much better than that.

#30 Jutsy

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 06:30 PM

So I just went through the chatlogs. Rah gave you suggestions yesterday in-game and I saw no signs of mistreatment whatsoever. Then later..

I would like to point out that CJ isn't responding to you there.

But that is one hell of an assumption. Apparently having ranks that not only protect our server but allow those who have proven themselves to be competent builders to build in the main parts of our server is elitism.


Considering we were dealing with the submission anyhow.

Unfortunately based on my submission thread it is not an assumption. There shouldn't be any reason regardless of quality that warrants a poorer response. It's like taking an exam. Whether or not a person makes an A or an F is consistent for all students and if teachers do put in feedback they don't 'pick' on any students.

As I'll state I shouldn't have to deal with the exact same problems that I've looked at in the last 6 or so years. Which I'll just end with that the Internet is full of this, but I thought bronies were much better than that.


It is plain as day to me that you took this much harder than you should have, and reacted as such. Maybe the fact that you've been dealing with this for the past 6 years is based on your faults. Not who you're dealing with.

Locking thread.

#31 Ratty

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Posted 02 November 2011 - 07:17 PM

Ah damn, I didnt get to this thread in time. But I'd like to explain anyway.

I'll unlock this topic too in case there's anything intelligent to add to this topic. If its just the same old arguments restated, then I'll ask you not to post again in this topic.
This is of interest to me and I've really never had a chance to explain it to the new people.

The first server started out without any screening process at all. I did appoint various admins in charge of the cities and that worked out well. They subdivided their city into plots and let people build, that system is still in place. But it was just a lot of work dealing with the same people over and over that didn't have it in them to make anything presentable.

At first all we would do is ask them to change things when they got on, specific constructive tips, but sensitive people ruined that. A lot of people just can't take being told they're not perfect, so I decided to start over and screen people, so we can deal with the drama in a test environment, and anyone that can't handle being told to change something can get filtered out. So, obviously that system is working.
In fact, it has improved morale for everyone, the admins the the builders. The admins have less BS to deal with from builders that refuse to read rules or ones that make messes that need cleaning up. And the members know that they are part of the highest quality creations.

That whole system worked out a lot better than I expected. When I started it, I was watching closely to see if people would rebel, and I was ready to dismantle the whole system and put it back like it was where everyone could build everywhere. But it was hugely successful. We've had over 400 submissions, and people really get into it, pushing themselves to try hard. I encourage other builders to help give advice too, there's always something new to learn no matter how good you are. And if you show signs that you have potential, but just need a bit of pointers, we'll do that. If you show signs that you can't handle working in a collaborative environment, such as getting butthurt when asked to change something, we get to find out before changes get made to the showcase worlds.

So as far as I'm concerned, what we're doing results in more fun for more people, since I did it without elistism for a long time and can compare it. This is our 3rd try at Equestria and I think we finally got it right.
And look around the world, its the best quality of all the other MLP themed servers as far as the world looks, people are proud to be a part of it.

I think the question on why we do it has been answered now. I'm not considering dropping the submission system since it has been such a success compared with when we didn't do it, so don't post any arguments against it because the facts and evidence are not on your side.

If there's any questions about why we do something, I can answer those.

#32 Prismatic

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:06 AM

The first server started out without any screening process at all. I did appoint various admins in charge of the cities and that worked out well. They subdivided their city into plots and let people build, that system is still in place. But it was just a lot of work dealing with the same people over and over that didn't have it in them to make anything presentable.


Reminds me of those healers that always stood in the void zones (I believe that is the correct term, a void zone is a location where a player will instantly die if they are standing there at the wrong time. In Minecraft this would be your lava) that would burn time up until I either removed them or delegated them to damage. Which makes sense.

At first all we would do is ask them to change things when they got on, specific constructive tips, but sensitive people ruined that. A lot of people just can't take being told they're not perfect, so I decided to start over and screen people, so we can deal with the drama in a test environment, and anyone that can't handle being told to change something can get filtered out. So, obviously that system is working.
In fact, it has improved morale for everyone, the admins the the builders. The admins have less BS to deal with from builders that refuse to read rules or ones that make messes that need cleaning up. And the members know that they are part of the highest quality creations.


I'm not perfect. I'm far from being perfect (too far to the point in some cases...You should see my how-to on how to do a no longer obtainable Feat of Strength). It's something I've dealt with for those 'X' amount of years which to be honest I don't mind feedback at all. Usually I'm in the area that I'm too timid to really do anything in fear of the other doing a ragequit or something. I think where things went awry here is instead of something that could of been used (i.e. How to make a table properly) I was given sometime to me in bad taste. I find it more harmful to me to have something blunt and useless than something I can look at, understand, and figure out. I've been a role player for six years or so. My test character has been a robot with a cyborg mind. His revision, for all purposes still has the beta moniker. In an RP sense I've always understood the only way to get anywhere is to simply follow 90% of what the other person wants, just one mistake and they'll terminate without warning. From a statistical perspective I've had 99 fail for every one that succeeds, making it a 99% failure rate.

With that said I also don't want to ask for feedback at every single turn. Not sure why but I suppose it does feel weird doing that while tanking.

That whole system worked out a lot better than I expected. When I started it, I was watching closely to see if people would rebel, and I was ready to dismantle the whole system and put it back like it was where everyone could build everywhere. But it was hugely successful. We've had over 400 submissions, and people really get into it, pushing themselves to try hard. I encourage other builders to help give advice too, there's always something new to learn no matter how good you are. And if you show signs that you have potential, but just need a bit of pointers, we'll do that. If you show signs that you can't handle working in a collaborative environment, such as getting butthurt when asked to change something, we get to find out before changes get made to the showcase worlds.


Of course. It's like starting a raid group in my MMOs. It's easier to get the required 10/25/X amount of people that will do the job properly and not fight over why someone brought someone who is obviously incapable of doing X amount of performance.

I never got into large scale end-game in my MMOs (well, only WoW) because there were too many scammers who would steal gear. I think where I do tend to fail when it comes to collaboration is that I'm permanently banned for life on a guild I know everyone on simply because I refuse to exploit certain mechanics under the pretense that "everyone else does it so the admins won't ban."

On the con side I know in WoW achievements (which ties into experience) are bound to one character. So alternative characters would need to repeat old content for experience (...in vanilla it was required, put it that way). I think the other side of the coin is that I've seen way too many people go into a lemming like state where they'll follow a Guildmaster into doing their desires. I actually have a guild like that on my main realm. Has over 1000 members and is known for their members to outright just act as a failing whole. I still would like to keep what's left of my sanity/sentience simply because I'd still like to be a person.

With that said I haven't sat down and involved myself in any group stuff recently so I'm still pretty out there. In terms of pick-up-groups I perform better-than-average as a tank. The big reason is because I don't rage whenever the party dies and most of the time I actually do try to keep up with the recent changes with classes and whatnot. I remember when people got all upset because I was stacking mitigation (dodge) instead of hitpoints. Kinda useless seeing that if I take less hits I should be able to save critically important mana.

I had friends and family in that guild and I think most of them got out simply because instead of being a fun guild they switched over to progression. The two that I know that healed got two responses. One of them was that he wasn't good enough and the other was intentionally not invited to any activities without any sort of mail or communication.

So as far as I'm concerned, what we're doing results in more fun for more people, since I did it without elistism for a long time and can compare it. This is our 3rd try at Equestria and I think we finally got it right.
And look around the world, its the best quality of all the other MLP themed servers as far as the world looks, people are proud to be a part of it.


Which is impressive I have to hand it to you. My only thing is that it does remind me of visiting people's houses that they have rooms off limits to touching (which in here IS a good thing, don't get me wrong).

I think the question on why we do it has been answered now. I'm not considering dropping the submission system since it has been such a success compared with when we didn't do it, so don't post any arguments against it because the facts and evidence are not on your side.

If there's any questions about why we do something, I can answer those.


My only question Ratty is why do we have a rank for rejects? I know it sounds silly but I just finder it easier to just have people who have passed and those who haven't (I know there's probably a technicality that cannot be explained and whatnot so if there isn't an answer it's fine).

I think because I come from an very awkward background in both online and offline my ideologies on things are completely out of whack to that of the average person. It's one of the reasons why I do come across in either absurd or in which a lot of people hate is emotionless simply because I play games to get away from it all and that ever since '06 or so it's just brutal. I've withstood the test of time for about 4 or so years and it just finally wears me out.

Then again I do repair and build computers as a hobby which does play a huge disfavor in my view.

#33 Jutsy

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:17 AM

Because we don't want them to build in submissions during their month waiting period. White names can only build in Freebuild. We can't demote them to grey-names because they can't build at all. Yellow is simply a temporary rank.

#34 Prismatic

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:29 AM

Because we don't want them to build in submissions during their month waiting period. White names can only build in Freebuild. We can't demote them to grey-names because they can't build at all. Yellow is simply a temporary rank.


Makes sense with the technicality that no two ranks share the same color, if I'm getting it correctly.

#35 Jutsy

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:32 AM

So are we done here?

#36 Prismatic

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:34 AM

So are we done here?


Dunno if you wanted to wait on Ratty. Doesn't make sense as to why we want a 4 vs. 1 thread.

#37 Jutsy

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 02:36 AM

My only question Ratty is why do we have a rank for rejects?


If that is, in-fact, your only question. Then we should be done here. Because I gave you the exact reason why the ranks exist.

#38 Ratty

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:36 AM

Jutsy, let me handle this, down boy! down!

I hate to think of us like an elite guild on WoW, those guys truly are assholes. Anytime someone messes up they just humiliate them, where as here I would warn and kick any admin that is like that. I'm pretty sure none are like that, if any showed signs of being like that I wouldn't have promoted them. I can't speak for the builders, all we do is review their house.

We have a 'freebuilders' rank which is basically the reject rank. Those are the white names. They can only build in freebuild. We had to do that because no matter how much I try to document it, some people would build again in submissions immediately, and it was problematic.
The color difference is so they know what status they are in. yellow is for people in the submissions process, white is for not, and green means they passed. If someone shows they don't really want to bother doing a submissions, I'll whitename them, people have no business building in submissions unless they are making something to show us.
And having 2 colors for the same rank would get confusing. I'm not about to go out of my way to confuse things by protecting overly sensitive people either. We don't treat the whitenames worse than anyone else, in fact I even made a whole freebuild world for them. And when 1.9 is officially out, I'll make an additional freebuild world for them.

I welcome this kind of conversation if its civil and intelligent, I don't want us being jerks, unless the person deserves it. I try to hard to provide a good experience for less skilled builders, and without making them feel bad. A lot of the builders we have enjoy helping teach people things, so I observe all of this as having a positive effect.

#39 Prismatic

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 03:51 AM

Jutsy, let me handle this, down boy! down!

First, stop with the WoW metaphors, you completely lose me.
Also, I hate to think of us like an elite guild on WoW, those guys truly are assholes. Anytime someone messes up they just humiliate them, where as here I would warn and kick any admin that is like that. I'm pretty sure none are like that, if any showed signs of being like that I wouldn't have promoted them. I can't speak for the builders, all we do is review their house.

We have a 'freebuilders' rank which is basically the reject rank. Those are the white names. They can only build in freebuild. We had to do that because no matter how much I try to document it, some people would build again in submissions immediately, and it was problematic.
The color difference is so they know what status they are in. yellow is for people in the submissions process, white is for not, and green means they passed. If someone shows they don't really want to bother doing a submissions, I'll whitename them, people have no business building in submissions unless they are making something to show us.
And having 2 colors for the same rank would get confusing. I'm not about to go out of my way to confuse things by protecting overly sensitive people either. We don't treat the whitenames worse than anyone else, in fact I even made a whole freebuild world for them. And when 1.9 is officially out, I'll make an additional freebuild world for them.


Even so, the submission process reminds me too much of those guilds or just role playing in general. While the unofficial reviewers are free to speak as they choose to do so I do feel that official reviewers should have a consistent sort of answer for any grade of house (good, bad, trolling, etc.). That's where we got off on the wrong hoof is that I don't want to be reminded of such processes and to a lesser extent one of the reasons why I wanted to get away from another MC server. Although things have changed so I'll stick with the old one.

Pretty much there are two angles to it. Either a reject or don't attempt. So in either case it's neutral (albeit I dislike forums with a passion myself anyway which probably doesn't help). This makes more of a better understanding than what I got in-game per say.

I have no hard feelings against you or anyone else here. It's probably difficult to explain because the time I did technical support for a forum the restrictions placed on me were roughly tenfold than the average game. Ironically the end result was I still was well liked whereas most games I'm still neutral with most people (depending on the stance anyway, I do encounter drones from time to time).

#40 Ratty

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 04:01 AM

At first I told all the admins to just put "rejected" and lock the topic, then later we agreed that it was much nicer to give reasons, even if it meant some possible extra drama. Or if it was close enough, tell people what they need to change if they want to get approved. Rahl told you pretty professionally and factually what was wrong, if he was rude, that would be different. You can't deny that little effort was put into furniture. If it looked like you tried and failed, I'm sure he wouldn't have put it like that.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2740

In the other worlds, each town/area has a leader, and that person is responsible for that area. So if you built a house there, they would do the same thing if you didn't do a good job there. At no point are we telling people they suck, or can't do it, instead we tell people we want them to try harder. If they don't enjoy making nice art, then they have no business going through the submissions process, since they would not survive in the showcase worlds.

Freebuild is really good quality too, our first freebuild was not, but now I think the atmosphere we've created makes people actually care about what they do and it is showing.

If you still disagree, then we'll just disagree and thats that.

#41 Prismatic

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 04:08 AM

At first I told all the admins to just put "rejected" and lock the topic, then later we agreed it was nicer to give reasons, or if it was close enough, tell people what they need to change if they want to get approved. Rahl told you pretty professionally and factually what was wrong, if he was rude, that would be different. You can't deny that little effort was put into furniture.
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2740

In the other worlds, each town/area has a leader, and that person is responsible for that area. So if you built a house there, they would do the same thing if you didn't do a good job there. At no point are we telling people they suck, or can't do it, instead we tell people we want them to try harder. If they don't enjoy making nice art, then they have no business going through the submissions process, since they would not survive in the showcase worlds.

Freebuild is really good quality too, our first freebuild was not, but now I think the atmosphere we've created makes people actually care about what they do and it is showing.

If you still disagree, then we'll just disagree and thats that.


A snide remark is not professional, and to be honest I would of gotten removed if I made a such comment to doing technical support work. It would be the same as me telling a user that they were foolish for doing a command on the system repeatedly that is available that isn't supposed to be used. I had a ton, ton of those and all I can do is simply tell them to not use it.

With that said we each got our own opinion. Considering my own living quarters is similar to that of what I built (although the only changes I made was slapping in bookcases in every room and that the entire lower floor has one door) I still preferred to remain more loyal to the show in my opinion in which based on what I know the interiors were more known for the wall decorations than anything else.

At this point we should gracefully lock the thread, "I've got nothing [else]."

#42 Ratty

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 04:21 AM

A snide remark is not professional, and to be honest I would of gotten removed if I made a such comment to doing technical support work.


Let me stop you right there. That is a completely bad analogy. You didn't buy something and we're being paid to support you. You came to us and submitted some work for review, with the premise that if approved, we would allow you access to our main worlds. We're going to tell you outright what facts we observe, and that's all there is to it. If anyone is that sensitive where they can't accept the bare truth given to them, then it is for the best they aren't given access for reasons I explained earlier.
It's asking a lot for the admins to do all this work reviewing things, and I think they do a great job and get little thanks for it.
If you submitted some artwork for review, they would redline it and point out any technical mistakes in anatomy, and most people would be grateful for the feedback. It is just a fact you didn't put effort into the interior, there's no reason not to state it. You should have just agreed with reality and just fixed it up real quick and made it better. If you don't like making things look as nice as possible, then its understandable why you would not enjoy the experience, just consider it something thats not your cup of tea and move on.

#43 Prismatic

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 04:26 AM

Referring to it being paid or not has no bearing, the fact that it's brought up again is flawed.

Your currency is that of fame or reputation. The only difference is that yours can go down instead of up. Look at the other MC servers and think about it. If you dump all the reputation down then you essentially lose the server and it's gone. In fact reputation is an even more insane gamble because of word of mouth among other things that one error can compromise. Mine was a closed environment so it remained the same, you'd be surprised how many people, online, set themselves up such a fate and end up hitting zilch on the rep meter.

This is probably why mods that aren't affected by either currency in these online games do so poorly simply because there is nothing to lose.

#44 Ratty

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 04:38 AM

The only currency I care about is the quality of people that visit, and I'm very pleased.

Wait a minute, was that reputation another WoW reference? UGH. Real life doesn't work like any video game's reputation system, its just just a 2 dimensional axis. Each community has their own personality, that could be called a reputation. We have a rep for being "serious" but high quality.
The only reason I'm even letting this go on was in the hopes to get intelligent insight into what impact we might be having on people who never tell us to our faces. But you're just letting me down. You're making assertions about things you are not qualified to. I've been running communities for 12 years, starting with TFC, then other FPS games, an art site, TF2 servers and this is my 4th minecraft server. Each time it always grows the same way.

I actually don't want ANY reputation with the general public, bronys in general are not liked by the general population, especially minecraft players. When I had us listed on server lists for a week, it was a nightmare. It stopped after I delisted us. We got zero people that stayed after finding us from those sources. The brony community is pretty well aware of us, all the new visitors are from google searches, our youtube videos, equestria daily posts and reddit, and if you look at the introductions forum you can see we're doing just fine in terms of new people finding us.

#45 Prismatic

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 04:53 AM

...have the best everything...


It's hard...It's neigh impossible to use an opinion as a fact. What's the intelligence in gloating that "we're number 1, we're the best MLP server" when in reality I could care less about who is number one and who is number 9.

Based on what I've read I wouldn't consider any pony related server to be number 1. We're not here to have spiteful competition but to simply have fun.

All I can think of is the scene in the movie Back to School.

Spoiler


#46 Ratty

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 07:17 AM

Quoting that one thing and ignoring all the other points, seriously? I see I'm getting nowhere, I guess I'll lock this after all.
You guys can't blame me for trying.


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