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Pegasi Wings and Flight Issue


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#1 High Orbit

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:02 PM

Is there a canon way of explaining why pegasi can generate enough thrust with such a small wingspan to body relation such to actually fly efficiently?

And if not, would the hypothesis that pegasi by the movement of wings actually interact with the ambient magic in Equestria, which in turn provides the nessessary speed acceptable for normal RP standards?

Also, are pegasi able to manipulate and balance objects ie. cups using ony the wings accurately?

#2 GoopHug

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:03 PM

better way of explaining: MIRACLES

Edited by derpyshy, 15 December 2012 - 04:03 PM.


#3 Blazuhira Miller

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:09 PM

Alright, I came up with this theory a while ago, pegesi don't actually use their wings to properly 'fly', more to propel themselves, you see, in Hurricane Fluttershy, Twilight mentioned something about pegesi speed being related to CO2, which explains how pegesi can fly backwards sideways, upside down, directly up, and directly down, this also explains how they can walk on clouds: because their bodies are solid on CO2.

If that's clear, good, cause I ain't any good at explaining stuff.

Edited by Blazer, 15 December 2012 - 04:09 PM.


#4 Kai ❤

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:18 PM

>Bees

Furthermore,
>Talking ponies and magic.

The wings are what your concerned about?

Edited by WolfBoi5, 15 December 2012 - 04:19 PM.


#5 RunningWolf251

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:22 PM

Is there a canon way of explaining why pegasi can generate enough thrust with such a small wingspan to body relation such to actually fly efficiently?


No, actually. Their wings aren't big enough to actually hold their weight according to physics, but if their wings were the size they need to be, about the length of their body plus a little more, that would look kinda stupid, so their wings are cut down to a visually appealing size. Simply put, they would have incredibly strong muscles in the bases of their wings that could move the wings back and forth at very, very rapid speeds, though it still is a stretch how they can fly. Remember, it's a kids show and they don't expect kids to look at it from a kinesthetic point of view.


And if not, would the hypothesis that pegasi by the movement of wings actually interact with the ambient magic in Equestria, which in turn provides the nessessary speed acceptable for normal RP standards?


It's possible that pegasi have a subconscious connection to magic, as do the earth ponies. I can see how the thought of flying to a pegasus would, in turn, activate some form of levitation and then they use their wings, as Blazer said, simply to propel their bodies forward, backward, etc. I think that if they were to make themselves more aerodynamic they could squeeze more speed from themselves, but I'm not sure exactly as to how much they could get from that. A few miles per hour, but not anything drastic.


Also, are pegasi able to manipulate and balance objects ie. cups using ony the wings accurately?


No. It was shown in Hurricane Fluttershy, but I simply find it completely impossible for a pony to use their wings for weight bearing. Since there would be almost no muscle in the wing itself, their construction being bone and ligament, they would rip the ligaments in their wings if they were to put too much excess weight on them. Besides, their wings couldn't wrap around objects or have decent grip on them and they couldn't reach around to the front of their body to make holding something be a useful endeavor.


Hope that helps a bit.

Edited by RunningWolf251, 15 December 2012 - 04:23 PM.


#6 High Orbit

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:23 PM

Yes, because I intend my OC to be as close to lifelike as possible, and that requires indepth research.

That hyphothesis of mine apparently also covers why the Wonderbolts are able to leave contrails as they please, though.

Hmm. But the energy used to flap the wings would far exceed the weight of a cup, wouldn't it?

Oh, and are the four primary feathers rigid or flexible?

I have more questions about pegasi using wings for body language after this.

Edited by High Orbit, 15 December 2012 - 04:29 PM.


#7 Mewly

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:26 PM

My theory:

Pegasi wings create an invisible aura of magic around the pegasus (kinda like unicorns expect theirs is visible), making them able to do self-levitation.

#8 Blazuhira Miller

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:29 PM

I think I had a better explanation of that theory on TvTropes, I'll find it.

#9 High Orbit

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:31 PM

But then acceleration would not require the wings to flap faster, unless the wings themselves are the ones creating the magical lift, and they have to be moving to do so.

Edited by High Orbit, 15 December 2012 - 04:32 PM.


#10 RunningWolf251

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:36 PM

That hyphothesis of mine apparently also covers why the Wonderbolts are able to leave contrails as they please, though.


I explain this as an effect of their suits, and possibly enchantment of the suits. Seeing as they leave a 'lightning cloud' trail and the cutie marks on their uniforms are a lightning bolt, I think it could be related to that. The developers didn't really have any specific explanation in mind when they created the trails, it was only supposed to mimic the Blue Angels and give a sense of flair to the Wonderbolts' presence in the show.


Hmm. But the energy used to flap the wings would far exceed the weight of a cup, wouldn't it?


Not my point, I mean that the weight on the wings could be detrimental to their purpose. It would be like holding your arm out over a ledge and having someone sit on it.


Oh, and are the four primary feathers rigid or flexible?


Flexible, to a degree. They can be seen through the shows wiggling on command or warping during flight, but they retain some rigidity.


But then acceleration would not require the wings to flap faster, unless the wings themselves are the ones creating the magical lift, and they have to be moving to do so.


True, it would help them go slightly faster by flapping harder, but making themselves more aerodynamic at the cost of wing movement would be more of a benefit.

#11 343 Guilty Sparkle

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:37 PM

Okay... first thing, In my opinion, I could care less XD. Pegasi fly however they want, because.... PONIES. There really isnt any concrete canon things holding back methods of flight during RP. Most flight is just.... flight. and that is that. its not too analytical. So, This will be my only input, due to the fact that in RP it doesnt really matter. so for curiosities sake, Have fun throwing theories around in this thread. ^_^ I'll leave it open for ya.

Final statement, Flight by pegasi, and their abilities to manipulate objects [within a reasonable scope of items] with their wings isnt too critical during RP, so no need to worry too hard about it.

#12 High Orbit

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:42 PM

Ah, thanks. So I can modify my OC's wing parameters in peace now.

BUT, are the gestures noted in a fictious book in this FiMFiction story cleared for RP?

Edited by High Orbit, 15 December 2012 - 04:42 PM.


#13 RunningWolf251

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 04:53 PM

Of course, it's all another person's point of view, but it seems to have some form of basis. Whether or not I would take it as fact is debatable, but that's just my opinion. I do disagree with earth ponies and their tails, that seems a bit far fetched to me.

I reckon that if wings were magic-based, they could be used to hold objects, but I've always looked at pegasi with a more physical sort of view. Perhaps this could be varying by pegasus, some preferring to use their wings, others preferring mouth and hoof. I also don't think any pegasi would use his or her wings as a weapon unless it was an emergency. That would be asking for a wing injury.

I didn't read the entirety, only made it to Chapter 11, but it's up to you whether you take information from it or not. Just remember that if you can explain it well enough and it's not too drastic, it's usually accepted.

#14 Blazuhira Miller

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:07 PM

I always imagined Earth pony dexterity was higher, allowing them to use their tails to carry objects.

On the subject of wings, I believe that they're simply not strong enough to lift heavy amounts of weight, but are capable of lifting small stuff, like flaps on a bag, or paper and stuff like that.

The problem with using wings would be that they wouldn't have very much stability with objects.

#15 RunningWolf251

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:10 PM

Horse tails have no solidity besides about 4 inches from the croup, which has no muscles in it as it's just the end of the spine. There's nothing there to physically hold something with.

I see earth ponies' magical affiliation as being able to coax much more successful crops from a planting and harvest. Not to say that unicorns and pegasi can't farm, they just don't get as high of a yield from their harvests as an earth pony does.

#16 High Orbit

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:12 PM

But if the wings were slightly flexible, you could balance objects similarily to balancing things on your palm, is it not? The slight angle changes would be second-nature to pegais, having to readjust wings every so now and often to compensate for changing speeds.

#17 Blazuhira Miller

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:15 PM

The problem is, if it's stretchy (as pegesi wings appear to be) then it means that there's no bone in them or at least near the end.

I think Running, a better question rather than earth ponies ability to carry things with tails would probably be the ability to carry them with hooves.

#18 High Orbit

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:18 PM

All races can carry things with hooves, but it's not good for precision. The other thing that would balance earth ponies is that they mastered writing with the mouth.

#19 RunningWolf251

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:19 PM

It's plausible, sure. As I think about it a bit more, I figure they could hold smaller objects in a sort of grasp, but nothing particularly heavy. And it sounds reasonable that they could balance objects, again nothing heavy, and of course not while flying.

Every pony can carry things with hooves, earth ponies just possess more overall strength than other ponies. But we still see non-ripped earth ponies (such as the higher class earth ponies) and the ripped ones, like Mac. It all depends on their purpose.

#20 High Orbit

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:21 PM

Ah, and earth ponies are the only ones able to rock-farm. Balanced.

#21 Blazuhira Miller

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 05:25 PM

Earth ponies are definitely balanced, playing multiple earth pony characters kinda shows you the faults of the other races, everyone seems to assume "no wings, no horn, really unbalanced and bad to play as" when it's more like: "cannot fly (unless given wings for a short time with magic from a unicorn) or use magic, but they have high dexterity, are almost always much stronger than the other two races, best in farming and with animals (Fluttershy of course alters this, although in original drafts she was an earth pony), and can do multiple things other races can't, as they can to them.

Also, if you play an earth pony you instantly gain my respect. Which is of course not that hard to get anyway.

#22 raptorvelo

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:01 PM

Is there a canon way of explaining why pegasi can generate enough thrust with such a small wingspan to body relation such to actually fly efficiently?


Honestly I figured they worked along the same laws of physics used by the bumble bee. Seeing as they break the logic of wing span to body relation as well.

#23 dougalcraft

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 07:40 AM

...Do you all understand that you have been talking about the Wing size being to small to hold up a pony turn into a physics show? XD
 
I... just... wasted.... 10 seconds of your life :) 

 

Warning. The user dougalcraft may waste 10 seconds of your life. Warning has been completed

 

bullet_black.png Muffin :3

 

 

 



#24 Fluro :D

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 10:49 AM

Earth ponies are definitely balanced, playing multiple earth pony characters kinda shows you the faults of the other races, everyone seems to assume "no wings, no horn, really unbalanced and bad to play as" when it's more like: "cannot fly (unless given wings for a short time with magic from a unicorn) or use magic, but they have high dexterity, are almost always much stronger than the other two races, best in farming and with animals (Fluttershy of course alters this, although in original drafts she was an earth pony), and can do multiple things other races can't, as they can to them.

Also, if you play an earth pony you instantly gain my respect. Which is of course not that hard to get anyway.

Well then September2727 gains your respect then? She is a Unicorn that lost her horn and she gets angry if she is called a Unicorn! She prefers to be called an Earth Pony since even the root of the horn is gone and she cannot produce ANY magic.



The OC of hers I just explained is named Lunar Minty!



#25 Breezeark

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:22 PM

ignore


Edited by Breezeark, 13 July 2013 - 01:32 PM.


#26 Sokko

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:31 PM

bud, I think this is dead by far



#27 Breezeark

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:32 PM

Earth ponies are definitely balanced, playing multiple earth pony characters kinda shows you the faults of the other races, everyone seems to assume "no wings, no horn, really unbalanced and bad to play as" when it's more like: "cannot fly (unless given wings for a short time with magic from a unicorn) or use magic, but they have high dexterity, are almost always much stronger than the other two races, best in farming and with animals (Fluttershy of course alters this, although in original drafts she was an earth pony), and can do multiple things other races can't, as they can to them.

Also, if you play an earth pony you instantly gain my respect. Which is of course not that hard to get anyway.

You just listed all the ways my OC bolts is underpowered, she is a pegasus that cannot fly (I built her original backstory around an earth pony, but when it came to design, i gave her wings).

Do I gain your respect, I feel like I am completely erasing any buffs a pegasus has.

 

bud, I think this is dead by far

It is, but I'm bored.


Edited by Breezeark, 13 July 2013 - 01:33 PM.


#28 Sokko

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:36 PM

even if your bored, bumping dead threads is a bad thing.



#29 Blazuhira Miller

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Posted 13 July 2013 - 01:36 PM

Well, even if I don't like participating in a bumped thread...

 

If she has wings, but can't use them, it means she literally has none of the benefits people choose pegasi for.

 

And she wouldn't have the upsides of being an earth pony when it comes to strength, speed or farming and animal care.

 

Really, if you don't want her to fly, just make her an earth pony.




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