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How to Avoid God Modding in Forum Based RPs


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#1 raptorvelo

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 06:42 AM

There are many different ways to godmod during an RP. In this thread we will look at some of the ways this is done as well as how to avoid it. 

 

Types of godmodding  include:

 

Power Gaming:

 

There are several different ways to godmod during fights, one of them is known as Powergaming. One of the easiest ways to accidentally godmod during an encounter. It's likely that everyone has been guilty of powergaming in some way during their rp career.

 

How it happens:

Powergaming occurs when a role player either presumes or declares that his or her characters action against another persons player character is successful without giving the other player character the freedom to act on his or her own prerogative. This also pertains to NPC's that are controlled by other players.
 

What shouldn't be done:

 

Player 1: Mr. Stallion charged at Miss. Mare and bucked her in the face knocking her out.

Player 2: Miss Mare falls unconscious. 

 

Why:

By declaring that the their OC's attack on Player 2's OC was successful, Player 1 didn't allow Player 2 to have any say in the fate their OC, Miss. Mare. In other words Player 1 essentially took control of Player 2's OC without their permition.

 

What should be done:

 

Player 1: Mr. Stallion charged at Miss. Mare and attempted to buck her in the face hoping to knock her out.

Player 2: Miss Mare rears up as Mr Stallions hooves hit her in the chest causing her to stagger backwards slightly

      before falling unconscious. 

 

Why:

By not stating the outcome of his OC's actions against Miss Mare Player 1 gives Player 2 a chance to decide the fate of their character. As you can see while the outcome is the same, Player 2 has chosen to have their OC fall unconscious rather then being forced to do so.

 

 

Meta gaming:

 

Meta gaming is another way of godmodding during an encounter in an RP that, despite being rather easy to avoid, can still occur accidentally during an RP if players aren't careful.

 

How it Happens:

Meta gaming occurs when a role player either takes advantage of, or makes use of information that their OC should not be aware of. Luckily this mistake can usually be spotted rather easily as it will usually result in the guilty parties OC acting in a way that appears odd or out of character for that particular OC. This is due to the fact that the action will usually fail to reflect the characters past experiences. Both those that occurred during  the RP, as well as those that happened or could be explained by the characters back-story.

 

Some common ways of Metagaming:

 

Using knowledge gained from information given in OOC chat to influence the choices your OC makes or what they say.
 
Acting upon information gained from a previously played or dead character. This is only relevant when the character has not witnessed the death for themselves.
 
Altering the method of attack or defense to counteract the strengths and weaknesses of an opponent when their OC hasn't observed them or been told about them earlier in the RP.
 
Making use of knowledge that the character should not be aware of unless they have received that knowledge earlier during the rp. 
 
Altering the way an OC behaves towards another player's character due to a real-life relationship with the other player.
 
The following only occurs if the RP takes place in-game, or if the RP is based on a game or other source.
 
Having ones OC do or say something that contradicts the personality of their OC in order to take advantage of a games mechanics that their OC should not be aware of.

 

Overpowered characters or abilities:

 

Their isn't really much to say on this one since you should all know about overpowered characters already if not then you will soon learn about them as you enter characters into rp's.

 

How and Why it happens:

 

Their are several reasons why a role player would create and submit an overpowered character into an RP:

  • They may be afraid that their character may be killed or injured during a fight.
    • This however can easily be avoided if everyone in the RP avoids powergaming.
    • While they may fear being injured they should realize that an OC shouldn't be perfect.
      • In fact by avoiding injury they could be denying their character the chance to learn a valuable life lesson. 
  • They may want to be the center of attention.
    • They have to realize that an RP is made up of other characters.
    • By creating a character with highly overpowered abilities without properly limiting them they run the risk of seriously injuring other OCs.

 

Proper Limiters: 

 

Their are many ways to properly limit a characters abilities

  • First, by being very concise in the description of your OC's ability.
  • Second, by giving the ability an easy to discover major flaw that can be used against them by other role players, once their OC's figure out what it is. 
  • Third, by using a personality trait as a limiter. Sadly this is the hardest one to achieve as it means the role player is unable to change that aspect of the characters personality no matter what happens to the character.
    • It is for that reason that most role players might want to avoid using this option.

I may add to this thread as I learn more.


Edited by raptorvelo, 23 October 2013 - 06:50 AM.


#2 343 Guilty Sparkle

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 08:45 AM

Have you read the Beginners Guide to Roleplay?

 

Nearly everything you have posted in this thread, though really helpful, [i may add some of the missing pieces covered here to the guide] Has already been covered for basic RP both on and off the forums and in game ^_^

But nevertheless... Great ideas. I may have to use this as a "Plaster" if you will, to fill in some of the missing bits that arent covered in the guide itself.

 

great work explaining these ^_^


Edited by adwrynn, 23 October 2013 - 09:12 AM.


#3 raptorvelo

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:12 AM

I have actually, in fact I used the example template provided on the thread as well as some of the tips and advice given as a rough bases for the creation of my first OC.

 

The reason I created this thread is because I've encountered some occasions in which some of the newer role players seem to have misinterpreted the rules listed in the Beginners Guide. Leading them to believe that certain rules only pertain to in-game RP's.

 

I have also gotten the impression that quite a few role players either don't understand what terms such as powergaming and metagaming actually mean, or they don't realize why what they're doing is wrong. The reason I say this is because, I've witnessed the creator of an RP powergaming during a fight between their OC and another. Not only that but the creator actually had powergaming listed in the RP's rules as one of the things an individuals OC shouldn't be doing.

 

Since then, I've become a bit more sensitive about it, and have even used part of one of the RP's I am apart of as a way to teach others how to properly conduct themselves during a combat situation in an RP. A method that, as far as I can see, seems to be successful. 


Edited by raptorvelo, 23 October 2013 - 10:16 AM.


#4 Verdana

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 10:21 AM

Great thread, very clear explanations, thank you very much. This is particularly helpful to people like me who don't understand RP at all, and are not familiar with these concepts.



#5 raptorvelo

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 11:26 AM

That is why I created this thread because, like others, I didn't know much about some of this stuff when I first started role playing either. When I took the time to learn more about it, I was embarrassed and a rather ashamed to learn that I had actually been guilty of powergaming on multiple occasions without even knowing it. The reason I didn't know was that no one had ever bothered to tell me exactly what powergaming was. They usually just went along with it, possibly because they either didn't realize what I was doing was wrong, or they didn't care enough to correct me.

 

Since then, I've cleaned up my act, and have tried to help others do the same before it becomes a problem.  



#6 High Orbit

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:28 PM

The Beginner's Guide does have a slight drawback, that is, it's more built towards In-Game RP's compared to Forum RP's, and appears so at a glance, due to the large chunk of text dedicated to the etiquette of in-game RP, and virtually nothing on normal forum RP style, which can only be found if one is actively looking for it, (OR, actually reading through the whole thing like they're supposed to.) and only in small paragraphs around the RP creation section.



#7 RunningWolf251

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:32 PM

Most of the rules for forum rp's are set by the rp creator, but again, most of them just copy from other players' rp's -- who have copied from previous rp's -- without always understanding the reasons behind the rules. Some of them seem basic, but it'd be helpful to have them detailed in the guide as well.



#8 High Orbit

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 12:42 PM

The other thing that the Guide lacks is a proper explanation about forum roleplay style, which are a whole new level compared to in-game RPs. While in-game RPs don't require you to have to type as much, as your character is already acting it out as you speak, forum RP's don't usually have that kind of freedom, which leads to inexperienced players coming into forum RP's completely unprepared for the walls of text the seniors trade with each other.

 

Besides that, it also causes posts to be comprised sometimes of less than a line of text, which while acceptable, when you have two characters doing nothing but that whilst talking to each other, makes for not only a boring conversation for others, but large chunks of blank space between posts.

 

Lastly, one-lined posts usually do not contain enough content to carry on a plot. In fast-moving in-game roleplays, one-liners are preferred, as the RP is taking place in real time, but for forum RP's that may take days in between posts, it tends to get annoying to be spammed by notifications when two RPers trade line by line of text with each other, with a complete lack of description or location.



#9 RunningWolf251

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:05 PM

Besides that, it also causes posts to be comprised sometimes of less than a line of text, which while acceptable, when you have two characters doing nothing but that whilst talking to each other, makes for not only a boring conversation for others, but large chunks of blank space between posts.

No, actually, it should not be acceptable. You can't develop a character or a plot through a single sentence. There's so many things you can do to use the post that you're given to make the post meaningful because really, if the post isn't being useful, it's unnecessary. It's just empty words with no meaning. But the sad thing is that it's become what seems to be the norm and nobody says a word about it.

 

My reasons for feeling this way are as such because I've seen hundreds of roleplays destroyed because, in the end, all that was happening was one-line fluff conversations. The characters weren't moving -- they were robots standing still saying stuff like "I think we should go to Canterlot to save the Princess." "Yes, let's go." "Yes, let's do."

 

It's not hard to fill up a paragraph whether you're trying or not. Actions are the focal point of a forum rp. You have time and a reason to use the fact that you have no visual cues to explain what exactly is going on both physically and mentally with a character and a scene. Say what you would post yourself, as you would say it to another and in the context you are posting it under. Describe what you did as you said it. It's a simple way to write more than a sentence and all you have to do is say what you post and write your actions, but if everyone did it, the overall quality of every rp on this site would improve.

 

Then of course you could simply write another paragraph describing the scene, another describing that character's thoughts... etc. Though I get the feeling the chief reason it's one liners is because they don't want to take the time to do it. Or they don't have the time. In either case, it would be better to wait until there was time to be adequately descriptive enough to not only improve yourself, but to give enough content to the other people in the rp to work with.


Edited by RunningWolf251, 23 October 2013 - 01:06 PM.


#10 High Orbit

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:12 PM

I've had my fair share of sunken RP's just because the seniors got tired of their posts getting a one-line reply, but it's hard for beginners to get a grasp on what they have to write, especially since the guide doesn't detail how to write in depth.

 

I'm not saying it's acceptable in any way, but as I've experienced it myself and had to learn the hard way, the learning curve is a steep one, and not many care to take it through, especially when they lack a proper guideline for it. My conclusion was, if you really, REALLY can't think of anything, it's OK to write a one-liner, but you really should buck up your efforts the next time round.



#11 RunningWolf251

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:21 PM

I'm not saying it's acceptable in any way, but as I've experienced it myself and had to learn the hard way, the learning curve is a steep one, and not many care to take it through, especially when they lack a proper guideline for it. My conclusion was, if you really, REALLY can't think of anything, it's OK to write a one-liner, but you really should buck up your efforts the next time round.

A while back I had an idea to start up a sort of "RP School," in which any who felt like they wanted to improve could come, ask questions, and receive answers. I figured that some people had not done rp's for very long but enjoyed it and had no idea where to start or how to improve their creative writing. I'm not the best writer, but I'd offer to try and help teach people who were willing to learn on ways to think through a post and, even if it isn't a long post, get well-thought meaning into their posts.

 

It would be a place where people could bring in examples or be provided with a setting and asked to give a response. I or any who felt they could assist would then pick the post through and explain a bit about improving it, whether it be through imagery, development, color, filling, meaning, description, etc. It would all depend on people willing and able to listen and learn.

 

Before I saw what makes a good post, I was in the same boat. All it really took was for me to join up in an rp with a lot of very experienced writers to realize how they were getting those emotions to flow through their posts. It took me a while to pick it up, but man, I wish everybody who loved to rp could get that feeling. That's what keeps me coming back to rps. It's like a good book when you get it feeling right, you can't put it down.


Edited by RunningWolf251, 23 October 2013 - 01:21 PM.


#12 High Orbit

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:33 PM

The RP thread is slated for a complete overhaul, perhaps with more through planning your suggestion could be implemented, at least in part if not fully, perhaps in the same format the Admins used for the building critique threads. Instead of having one large, overkill OC thread, they could potentially split it down and have everyone create their OC's as a subtopic, that more experienced RPers could come and give advice and tips individually, instead of a screaming mass of chat and arguments over whose OC is better.

 

Now, the flaws on this is similar to what the actual critique thread is facing now, that is, not enough people are really caring to give advice, and that is a major problem one must resolve beforehand.


Edited by High Orbit, 23 October 2013 - 01:34 PM.


#13 RunningWolf251

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 01:51 PM

The RP thread is slated for a complete overhaul

It's the reason I held off on posting it before, actually.

 

Now, the flaws on this is similar to what the actual critique thread is facing now, that is, not enough people are really caring to give advice, and that is a major problem one must resolve beforehand.

There was a similar thread long before, but as you said, it lacked people who really cared about helping other people. I had planned on running the new one myself because I am interested in helping those who want it. That's not to say that others couldn't help, but if their advice is detrimental, it would probably be best to either ignore them or have the post hidden to make way for a useful post. Of course, that'll cause problems too, but I would hope it would be clear through the intent of the topic that it's for honest help and not shenanigans. I think it deserves a try and if it fails, we're not losing anything.

 

The only problem I would have with a critique thread style implementation is that it would cause spammy threads eating up forum space. If it were all together in one thread with responses to each, the points given could be edited into the first post and made as a sort of quick reference guide and any questions not answered by it, or needing clarification, could be asked as well.



#14 High Orbit

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:01 PM

The only problem I would have with a critique thread style implementation is that it would cause spammy threads eating up forum space. If it were all together in one thread with responses to each, the points given could be edited into the first post and made as a sort of quick reference guide and any questions not answered by it, or needing clarification, could be asked as well.

 

But as we're probably going to have large amounts of traffic with the onset of s4, one thread might really quickly get out of hand and cause havoc much like the one we have is doing now. Plus, no-one likes it when some one else starts screaming when they don't like what they hear, especially while they're waiting patiently for their own OC to be reviewed.

 

The quick reference guide could be built in a seperate thread as the OC critiques grow, and be a "living" guide in that it grows in detail as more and more questions are raised, instead of just having a dead set of rules.

 

As for the forum space problem, that can be resolved if we actually have a dedicated forum moderation team much like other servers, instead of the admins having to have a double task, considering the amount they have to deal with already. More specifically, a team specially for monitoring the RP thread and the RP thread only, comprised of members who can actually have an active track record, to keep the posts clean and tidy.

 

The other thing that could be implemented in the new overhaul is a complete division of the RP and OOC threads, instead of having to dig through one forum. Also, one could also set up a post approval system for the RP threads, so that all RP's could be screened beforehand before being announced to the public.


Edited by High Orbit, 23 October 2013 - 02:03 PM.


#15 RunningWolf251

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:33 PM

But as we're probably going to have large amounts of traffic with the onset of s4, one thread might really quickly get out of hand and cause havoc much like the one we have is doing now. Plus, no-one likes it when some one else starts screaming when they don't like what they hear, especially while they're waiting patiently for their own OC to be reviewed.

 

The quick reference guide could be built in a seperate thread as the OC critiques grow, and be a "living" guide in that it grows in detail as more and more questions are raised, instead of just having a dead set of rules.

 

As for the forum space problem, that can be resolved if we actually have a dedicated forum moderation team much like other servers, instead of the admins having to have a double task, considering the amount they have to deal with already. More specifically, a team specially for monitoring the RP thread and the RP thread only, comprised of members who can actually have an active track record, to keep the posts clean and tidy.

 

The other thing that could be implemented in the new overhaul is a complete division of the RP and OOC threads, instead of having to dig through one forum. Also, one could also set up a post approval system for the RP threads, so that all RP's could be screened beforehand before being announced to the public.

In response to the first point, notifications would be a reviewer's friend. Get the notification, do the response on the spot, and carry on. But I do kinda like the idea with the oc's in separate threads, I just feel like if the 'post development' sort of thing were to happen, more than one person could be serviced at once in the same thread. They could even post responses to each other and then those responses could be critiqued and then they do it again with a new basis on what they could do to improve the post. Of course, then there's the lag time between each person actually posting the response, but if it starts to pile up it could be a means of getting through the list.

 

We have moderators, but they aren't able to do anything about posts or topics.

 

And as for the last point, I think that the idea that every rp has to have an app thread, an ooc thread, and a main thread has popped up because one or two people did it and the newer people joining the rp scene saw it after joining and thought it was required. One central thread is all that's really required. If you, as a gm, feel that ooc is getting to be out of hand, then make an ooc thread, but don't just up and make three threads for one idea -- that's cluttering. App threads aren't necessary, really. Either have them pm their oc sheet to you or have them post them in the main thread in a spoiler, that way it's all right there and not spread out across one page or two pages in the rp forum. If people aren't posting apps every single day for a week that you make the rp, then there's no reason to have a thread that gets five apps in two days and then stagnates.

 

There was an old rp guild forum that did something similar to the screening, but it was a test on an individual level to determine the skill of the rp'er before they were allowed to post in any rp's. It's a simple thing and it's what I was intending to sort of base my school idea on. It was something like this: A setting or theme style is presented, along with a character and dialogue. The person being tested or taught is then asked to post back what they would normally post in an rp. Suggestions can be given, perhaps multiple chances or posts to test whether or not they were just bull crapping their way through the test, and then they're either allowed or disallowed to rp. Of course, it wouldn't be as harsh here if it were in a schooling thread or if it was a test as we don't get the traffic or have the forum-specific dedication to rp'ing only, as they do.

 

Edit: Also, we could test it now before the reset, and if it works and others agree with it, keep the method. If it doesn't work, we could try a different approach post-reset.


Edited by RunningWolf251, 23 October 2013 - 02:35 PM.


#16 Technical Mercy

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 02:36 PM

The other thing that the Guide lacks is a proper explanation about forum roleplay style, which are a whole new level compared to in-game RPs. While in-game RPs don't require you to have to type as much, as your character is already acting it out as you speak, forum RP's don't usually have that kind of freedom, which leads to inexperienced players coming into forum RP's completely unprepared for the walls of text the seniors trade with each other.

 

Besides that, it also causes posts to be comprised sometimes of less than a line of text, which while acceptable, when you have two characters doing nothing but that whilst talking to each other, makes for not only a boring conversation for others, but large chunks of blank space between posts.

 

Lastly, one-lined posts usually do not contain enough content to carry on a plot. In fast-moving in-game roleplays, one-liners are preferred, as the RP is taking place in real time, but for forum RP's that may take days in between posts, it tends to get annoying to be spammed by notifications when two RPers trade line by line of text with each other, with a complete lack of description or location.

 

 

I agree.

Here are a few of my own rules.

 

A good rule to keep in mind is the "pass the potatoes" rule in which you have your character perform an action while they're speaking. maybe asking someone to pass them the potatoes to show everyone that "Hey, we are still eating dinner here." This shows that the character is in a setting. After all, Forum RPs lack the visuals to show the setting, and thus the characters have to remind the reader where thy are.

 

And adding " * " marks in a forum RP just looks wrong, Books don't do it and neither should Forum RPs.

--------------------

This should be added to Proper Limiters:

Fourth: The ability itself is a power limiter, Maybe the character has no real control over the ability, and the ability does more negative to that character that has it when it is used.

  • Example: Character's special talent is Stopping things. They can't control when it activates, nor can they activate it. Say they are taking an important test and the talent stops time...for the character. They are unable to do the test because they can't move. Basically: they get the test, they freeze in time, they place their pen on the test, test is over a second later.
    • Or, inversely, The character finishes the test, checks his or her answers, looks up to turn it in, and realizes that time was frozen since they started. They don't know how long it will last. They can't open any doors, and they are basically trapped between seconds. praying that time will come back so that they can live. Note that this should be reflected by the character. They should be nervous, hoping that the talent won't activate,  Possibly even begging the talent to deactivate when it does activate.
  • Example: the character can detect everything around them in a five foot radius. Seems OP, until you consider the effects. Everything....Every draft of air, every molecule, every atom. Every smell, taste, touch, sound, visual angle... Constant stimuli assaulting the mind.  At the very least, the character will be afraid of socializing, using magic dampeners to disable the talent.  At the most, they would become obsessed with removing the ability so that they aren't suffering at the hands of the never-ending stimuli, -possibly by damaging the horn.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Spoiler

Edited by Dominic, 23 October 2013 - 05:01 PM.


#17 RunningWolf251

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 04:03 PM

The overall experience level of an rp'er will determine how overpowered they will be with their abilities, as well as the believeability of the ability. The above is more of an aspect that an rp creator could choose to set rather than something that would be a rule for everyone. Also, the character still controls the ability (literally speaking) and the OC's owner still has the ability to choose which situation their nerf takes place in, meaning that unless they flipped a coin each time, they would choose the least likely scenario to interfere with their writing. Not to say it couldn't be done, but it would be more up to the GM and OC owner to determine whether it should take place.

 

And the reason that people use asterisks for actions is dependent on a couple different reasons. First being whether or not they understand the difference between a forum-based rp and a game-based rp. The second is because it could be specifically asked for by the GM to show that an action of importance has taken place and they need to take it into consideration for whatever reason, whether it be for a chance roll or something else.



#18 raptorvelo

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Posted 23 October 2013 - 04:31 PM

The overall experience level of an rp'er will determine how overpowered they will be with their abilities, as well as the believeability of the ability. The above is more of an aspect that an rp creator could choose to set rather than something that would be a rule for everyone. Also, the character still controls the ability (literally speaking) and the OC's owner still has the ability to choose which situation their nerf takes place in, meaning that unless they flipped a coin each time, they would choose the least likely scenario to interfere with their writing. Not to say it couldn't be done, but it would be more up to the GM and OC owner to determine whether it should take place.

 

This is a good point, and seeing as Dominic and I have had some experience it would probably not be advisable for a beginner to use that method due to their possible fear of harming their own character outweighing their desire to avoid godmoding.

 

The one positive of designing a character with such a flaw is that if the role player tries to godmod with such an ability then it would be easy to spot as the character may start acting in a way that contradicts their usual behavior. However, that would only hold true if the character had been acting timid or scared up until that point. So, sadly, that means that unless the role player has no problem with their character getting hurt, or living in constant fear of getting hurt. Then they might want to avoid this method and stick with the first two.  


Edited by raptorvelo, 23 October 2013 - 04:32 PM.


#19 343 Guilty Sparkle

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Posted 24 October 2013 - 06:40 AM

You have all made very VERY good points in regards to this thread, so I have taken the liberty of adding this post [first post] to the RP beginners guide [under RP Etiquette] as a whole, and am pointing my moderators at it for review.

 

If any further points arise in this discussion, I will consider editing/revising them in the beginners guide.

Be sure to check it out. ^_^

 

also, raptor, I have also given you credit at the bottom of the spoiler for the writing of this section.


Edited by adwrynn, 24 October 2013 - 06:55 AM.



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