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Thread: Golden's Guide to Race Building

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    Barbarian in the Playground
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    Default Re: [Pathfinder] Golden's Guide to Race Building

    Quote Originally Posted by invinible View Post
    Could you check to see the current balance of Waspinator's version 4 of the main 3 my little pony types?

    I still feel he is off with them but could easily make them balanced with base races without requiring players to level adjust to use them so would like statistical back-up to see if I'm right.
    Hold on, I need to go do some manly things before I review these races.
    *Runs off to the gym*
    . . .
    . . .
    . . .

    Okay, I'm good. Let's go!

    First off, you're going to want to separate the creature's size from quadruped. Being a quadruped has a specific set of rules associated with it if I'm not mistaken. Going to the d20 SRD (Paizo SRD has been down for a while :/) gives me this:

    Quadrupeds can carry heavier loads than bipeds can. Any creature with four or more motive limbs can carry a load as a quadruped, even if it does not necessarily use all the limbs at once. I also thing there's already a rule about how having additional legs gives you a bonus against trip and bull rush maneuvers, so you might want to keep that in mind when you're building the race (you'd have to pay for quadruped based on the bonuses it gives as well; if it gives nothing but the carrying capacity, then that's a 0 point ability. If it gives tangible bonuses, you'll have to pay accordingly).

    I also want to take the time to remind you that Pathfinder does things a little bit differently from 3.5; most nonmagical options are more powerful than their 3.5 counterparts. This is mostly going to come into play when calculating their ability score modifiers, as Pathfinder gives better bonuses to those then 3.5 did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Earth Pony
    • Type: Magical Beast, treated as Humanoid for the purposes of Mind-Affecting spells and abilities.
    • +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity.
    • Small Quadruped: As a Small creature, an Earth Pony gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but she uses smaller weapons than humans use. Her lifting and carrying limits are the same as those of a Medium character.
    • Earth Pony base land speed is 30 feet.
    • +2 racial bonus on Climb, Jump, Listen, and Swim checks.
    • Stability: An Earth Pony gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).
    • 1 extra feat at 1st level.
    • Automatic Languages: Common and Equine.
    • Even though they lack hands, Earth Ponies are able to use a combination of their hooves and mouths in order to manipulate items and use equipment in the way that humanoids can. Just accept it and move on.
    • Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass Earth Pony takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count.
    -Ability Scores: -2 Points.
    -Creature Type: 0 Points.
    -Size: 0 Points
    -Quadruped: ?? (needs to be clarified)
    -Speed: 0 Points
    -Bonus Feat: 8 Points
    -Deleterious Hooves: 0 Points
    -Skills: 4 Points
    -Stability: 1 Point (normally would be 2, but it's not a constant effect)
    ---Total: 11 Points

    Thoughts and opinions: This race is about as powerful as an elf point-wise, but what you find out about the benefits being a quadruped grants may change this total up or down accordingly. Many of its abilities are fluff abilities so that you can mechanically play as a quadruped without suffering the penalties of doing so. Having a Dexterity bonus is a little odd to me, probably because they're horses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Unicorn Pony
    • Type: Magical Beast, treated as Humanoid for the purposes of Mind-Affecting spells and abilities.
    • +2 Intelligence, +2 Charisma, -2 Strength, -2 Dexterity
    • Small Quadruped: As a Small creature, an Earth Pony gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but she uses smaller weapons than humans use. Her lifting and carrying limits are the same as those of a Medium character.
    • Unicorn Pony base land speed is 30 feet.
    • +2 racial bonus on Climb, Jump, Listen, and Swim checks.
    • Stability: A Unicorn Pony gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).
    • 1 extra feat at 1st level.
    • Arcane Ability: Unicorn Ponies with Intelligence or Charisma scores of 10 or higher can cast cantrips as a racial ability. They may choose one 0-level spell per +1 modifier on Charisma or Intelligence (whichever is higher) and cast that spell at-will. They are always treated as a level 1 caster for these spells and are subject to arcane spell failure, but do not need to prepare them. These spells are handled separately from any other spell-casting the Unicorn Pony may be capable of.
    • Increased Caster Level: Unicorn Ponies are considered to have +1 caster level for purposes such as spell range, duration, and damage. They do not gain any other benefits of caster level, such as class features of spells know, earlier than other races.
    • Empowered Magic: One per day, a Unicorn Pony can apply the Empower Spell feat to any spell as it is being cast without incurring the normal spell slot penalty. This must be declared before casting the spell and is lost if the spell cannot be completed for any reason.
    • Automatic Languages: Common and Equine.
    • Even though they lack hands, Unicorn Ponies are able to use a combination of their hooves and mouths in order to manipulate items and use equipment in the way that humanoids can. Just accept it and move on.
    • Favored Class: Wizard or Sorcerer. As soon as a level in either is taken, the player must decide which will permanently be considered favored.
    • +1 Level Adjustment
    -Ability Scores: +3
    -Small Size: 0 Points
    -Base Speed: 0 Points
    -Skill Bonuses: +4
    -Stability: +2
    -Bonus Feat: +8
    -Cantrips: +4
    -Increased Caster Level: +8
    -Empowered Magic: +2
    -Dexterous Hooves: 0 Points
    ---Total: 31 Points

    Thoughts and Opinions: FAR too powerful to be a LA race. This race is good. Really good. It also has a few problems. First, why would you be ANYTHING but an Arcane Spellcaster as this race? It screams Min-Max, but if you want to play as this race, you basically have to do so because it gets no other bonuses anywhere else.

    The reason I charged you so much for the caster level bonus is due to the Gnome. Yes, the Gnome. Other races that have a caster level bonus apply it to one specific thing (such as Illusions for Gnomes). The pony applies it to EVERY spell they cast. It's ridiculously good, and if it stays, it needs some reworking. First, how does it interact with their cantrips? The cantrips say they are always cast as if a 1st level caster (which is kind of lame in and of itself).

    Also, the Empower Magic thing is weird, I wouldn't keep it. If you're looking to make this a player race, here are my opinions:

    -Ability Scores: Drop the Intelligence or Charisma bonus (your choice) and either the Dexterity or Strength penalty (again, your choice). Give the pony a +2 bonus to a physical ability stat (Str, Dex, Con).
    -Cantrips: Model this after the gnome's cantrips. All I can say, really.
    -Drop the increased caster level and empower magic thing.
    ---Total: 19 Points. Even trimming all of that leaves the race at 19 points! You still have a lot of trimming to do, sir.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pegasus Pony
    • Type: Magical Beast, treated as Humanoid for the purposes of Mind-Affecting spells and abilities.
    • +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength.
    • Small Quadruped: As a Small creature, an Earth Pony gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but she uses smaller weapons than humans use. Her lifting and carrying limits are the same as those of a Medium character.
    • Pegasus Pony base land speed is 30 feet.
    • +2 racial bonus on Climb, Jump, Listen, and Swim checks.
    • Stability: A Pegasus Pony gains a +4 bonus on ability checks made to resist being bull rushed or tripped when standing on the ground (but not when climbing, flying, riding, or otherwise not standing firmly on the ground).
    • 1 extra feat at 1st level.
    • Gliding: A Pegasus Pony can use her wings to glide, negating damage from a fall of any height and allowing 20 feet of forward travel for every 5 feet of descent. Pegasus Ponies glide at a speed of 40 feet (average maneuverability). Even if her maneuverability improves, she can't hover while gliding. A Pegasus Pony can't glide while carrying a medium or heavy load. If a Pegasus Pony becomes unconscious or helpless while in midair, her wings naturally unfurl and powerful ligaments stiffen the wings. The Pegasus Pony descends in a tight corkscrew and takes only 1d6 points of falling damage, no matter what the actual distance of the fall.
    • Flight: When a Pegasus Pony reaches 5 Hit Dice, she becomes able to fly at a speed of 40 feet (average maneuverability). A Pegasus Pony can't fly while carrying a medium or heavy load or while fatigued or exhausted. Pegasus Ponies can safely fly for a number of rounds equal to double their Constitution modifier (minimum 1 round). They can exert themselves to fly for up to twice as long, but then they're fatigued at the end of the flight. They are likewise fatigued after spending a total of more than 10 minutes per day flying. Because Pegasus Ponies can glide before, after, and between rounds of actual flight, they can remain aloft for extended periods (even if they can only use flight for 1 round at a time without becoming fatigued). When they reach 10 Hit Dice, Pegasus Ponies have enough stamina and prowess to fly for longer periods. They can fly at a speed of 60 feet (average maneuverability), and flying requires no more exertion than walking or running. A Pegasus Pony with flight can make a dive attack. A dive attack works like a charge, but the creature must move a minimum of 30 feet and descend at least 10 feet. A Pegasus Pony can make a dive attack only when wielding a piercing weapon; if the attack hits, it deals double damage. A Pegasus Pony with flight can use the run action while flying, provided she flies in a straight line. While using the run action and flying, the Pegasus Pony leaves a brightly colored trail behind them, the exact appearance of which depends on the individual Pegasus.
    • Wing Buffet: A Pegasus Pony has two wing attacks as secondary natural weapons (damage 1d6 for a Medium creature) and may make a special bull-rush attack with a range of 25ft, +5ft per two character levels once per two rounds. This is a ranged attack which must be made with the Pegasus Pony's wings, and the Pegasus Pony does not move with his target, but otherwise functions as a normal bull rush.
    • Shielding Wing: The Pegasus Pony may encase themselves in their own wings, gaining a +4 shield bonus to AC when they take the total defense action, +1 per three character levels.
    • Cloudwalking: A Pegasus Pony can tread on clouds or fog as though on solid ground. The ability functions continuously but can be negated or resumed at will. They may also otherwise interact with clouds as though they are made of a solid material, at DM discretion.
    • Automatic Languages: Common and Equine.
    • Even though they lack hands, Pegasus Ponies are able to use a combination of their hooves and mouths in order to manipulate items and use equipment in the way that humanoids can. Just accept it and move on.
    • Favored Class: Any. When determining whether a multiclass Pegasus Pony takes an experience point penalty, his or her highest-level class does not count.
    • +1 Level Adjustment
    Ugh, I only had to glance at the amount of text to know that this one is going to be a headache T_T.

    Ability Scores: -2
    Small Normal Speed Quadruped: 0 Points
    Skills: +4
    Stability: +2
    Bonus Feat: +8
    Gliding/Flying: +4
    Natural Attack: +4
    Shielding Wings: +2 Points
    Cloud Walking: +8 Points
    Total: 28 Points

    Thoughts and Opinions: Well, that wasn't as bad as I thought it was going to be! To be honest, this race has a LOT of weird mechanics that are hard to gage the point values of. In my opinion, you should try to make as many of these abilities resemble pre-existing abilities as possible; ingenuity is fun and all, but if there's at least SOMETHING I can compare it to, it makes the point system a lot easier to go by.

    This is another one of those situations where Pathfinder does things differently. Flying is kind of different, sort of, but not so much so that it changes this class feature. I think waiting until the Wizard is high enough to cast fly for this ability is a good idea, though I think I would make it a racial feat instead of part of the race, personally. How do you measure the value of something you don't get right away? Also, instead of the gliding thing I'd just say that they always fall as if under the effects of a Feather Fall spell. So much easier!

    Overall on all of the Ponies: The major place that ALL of your races become overpriced at is the bonus feats. In my opinion, races other than humans should either get specific feats or pick from a list; choosing any feat you want should be the human's perk, because once you start giving it to everyone else, then the human is overshadowed. If your players want to play as humans, let them! More so in Pathfinder than in 3.5, one extra feat is not going to usually make or break your build.

    Another important thing to remember is Making Sense vs. Making Balance. There are TONS of things that just make sense for your race, but you can't or shouldn't always include them because of balance. Maybe trimming one some of those millions of bonuses your races have might help a bit :P.

    Quote Originally Posted by togapika View Post
    Let's see if I can make this system work...
    I'm making a race of shark men:

    +2 Con +2 Wis -2 Cha -2 Dex (-4)
    Large +10
    Normal Speed-0
    Swim Speed:+4
    Vulnerability to Cold-4
    Amphibious+2
    Darkvision+2
    Blood Sniffing:+1
    Total:+11

    Everything is as listed, blood sniffing would be a +2 to tracking when the target is bleeding, and the ability to smell blood close range...
    Might also give them racial feats for a bite attack and such
    Normally I'm a huge advocate against making Large-sized player races (see above), but vulnerability to cold damage is huge, and other then Large-sized this race gets no extremely powerful abilities, so I think I'm okay with that here.

    Everything looks good, except for Blood-Sniffing. First, you need to clarify exactly how it works. What constitutes as "Bleeding," and how long does that penalty last? If they're shark-people, does this benefit only lasts in the water? (blood takes longer to coagulate in water because of the lower concentration of oxygen or something like that) Give me a more specific rule on how the ability works and I'll be able to critique the race better; other then that, I'd say that this ability is ridiculously situational and doesn't warrant a point, leaving the race at 10 points.
    Last edited by Golden-Esque; 2011-01-30 at 01:40 PM.