[21:12] <Zero-> you know that thing where a guy rings a bell every time a dog eats-ttyl marador bby-?
08[21:12] * marador (cgiirc@Rizon-8FF81963.sub-70-199-134.myvzw.com) Quit (Quit: http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[21:12] <Hamcha> I don't
08[21:12] * Asmobile1 (~androirc@Rizon-21A9A68C.tmodns.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:12] <Kyo[Akagi]> go on
[21:13] <Nick[Skyler}> who?
[21:13] <Kyo[Akagi]> i think i know already
[21:13] <Celestial> Pavlovian response
[21:13] <Kyo[Akagi]> you too
[21:13] <Zero-> oh
[21:13] <Zero-> alright
[21:13] <Zero-> so, basically, whenever you feed the dog and it is eating, you ring a bell
[21:13] <Zero-> you do this for two weeks, every single time it's eating
[21:13] <Zero-> then, after a certain period, you ring the bell for no reason
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[21:14] <Zero-> the dog will approach you, salivating, and will in fact be more hungry than before you rung the ball
[21:14] <Zero-> also bell
[21:14] <Zero-> this is association
[21:14] <Celestial> ja
[21:14] <Zero-> your brain generally learns using two processes (from what i know)
[21:14] <Zero-> memorization, and association
[21:14] <LDiabolo> what he's trying to say: make dog tulpa, ring bell
[21:14] <Kyo[Akagi]> nick, skyler having been through a similar situation, it may be best for both of you to forgive bit not forget the lesson learned here
[21:14] <Nick[Skyler}> i have learned to associate wonderland with lack of balance
[21:15] <Zero-> so, you perceive something through your senses, it's processed within your brain, memorized, and associated with something relevant to it
[21:15] <Zero-> so, think of a bull
[21:15] <Nick[Skyler}> [What lesson!?]
[21:15] <Zero-> is everyone thinking of a bull?
[21:15] <Celestial> I don't think mem is separate from assoc personally
[21:15] <Celestial> yeah
[21:15] <Zero-> It's not separate, but it can be isolated as a separate process, even though the two work in tandem
[21:15] <Kyo[Akagi]> no but
[21:16] <Zero-> i want everybody to think of a bull
[21:16] <Zero-> THINK OF THE BULL GODDAMNIT
[21:16] <schlondark> no u
[21:16] <Kyo[Akagi]> [but thats bull!]
[21:16] <Zero-> Okay
[21:16] <Zero-> So, if I ask you to think of a color
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[21:16] <Zero-> You think of red, yes?
[21:16] <Kyo[Akagi]> ho ho
[21:17] <Zero-> that is because most people are aware that matadors use red towel things to attract bulls
[21:17] <Zero-> so the associated color to bulls is green
[21:17] <Zero-> RED
[21:17] <Celestial> comes to mind easier, yea, though I thought first of his coat color, brown
[21:17] <Zero-> fuck, can't type
[21:17] <Zero-> freudian slip
[21:17] <Zero-> anyway, that's association
[21:17] <Zero-> so, to break it down
[21:17] <Zero-> (this all happens so fast it's like a single process)
06[21:18] * Kyo[Akagi] is all ears
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[21:18] <Zero-> you perceive -> you memorize -> you associate your new memory with other relevant memories -> you memorize your association -> you associate your new association with other associations -> etc.
[21:19] <Zero-> this keeps happening, constantly
[21:19] <Zero-> every time you learn something, you link it to something else, then you remember the link, and link that link to something else
[21:19] <Celestial> sounds good
[21:19] <Zero-> does this make sense?
[21:19] <Zero-> good
[21:19] <Zero-> now, there is a thing called "anchoring"
08[21:19] * Nick[Skyler} (cgiirc@79EB418E.4B62A5C1.2737E45D.IP) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
08[21:19] * LDiabolo (cgiirc@ldiabolo.megan.chelsea) Quit (Remote host closed the connection)
[21:19] <Zero-> which is basically forcing yourself into a mindstate through association
[21:20] <Zero-> so, let's say i want to play metal on my guitar
[21:20] <Zero-> but i'm not feeling as pumped up at other times i play metal
[21:20] <Zero-> generally, when i listen to metal, i tap my feet alternately to the beat
[21:20] <Zero-> (whenever i'm in a pumped up state, that is)
[21:21] <Zero-> so whenever i want to get into my pumped up state, i just put on a song and tap my feet alternately to the beat
[21:21] <Zero-> and i will get in my "Metal state" in which I'll have a much better feel for the music
[21:21] <Zero-> this is also why i came up with fear forcing, but i'll explain that at another time
[21:21] <Zero-> anyway, association forcing makes use of this - in fact, i created my tulpa using it
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[21:22] <Zero-> what i would do, is i'd imagine myself 5 years from now, with my fully imposed tulpa
[21:22] <Zero-> and i'd act out what we'd do
[21:22] <Pentium> yeah hahaa sure you do.
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[21:22] <Zero-> like, chilling around in my room, playing games with her-shut up penson-, making fun of her, her making fun of me
[21:22] <Zero-> just, a friendship
[21:22] <Celestial> it worr me Pentium
[21:22] <Zero-> then i shortened that timeframe to 4 years
[21:23] <Celestial> it works for me
[21:23] <Zero-> then to 3, 2, 1, until i pictured her being imposed a few months from now (now being "now" at the time i was creating her)
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[21:23] <Zero-> i got to "3 months from now" and kept imagining what it would be like to live with her
[21:23] <Zero-> and, that's when i realized how horribly real she felt to me
[21:24] <Celestial> hah, nice
[21:24] <Zero-> and, sure enough, she acquired vocality very soon - because she was already real in my mind
[21:24] <Zero-> now let's break this down
[21:24] <Zero-> obviously, with tulpas, you can't associate through regular methods
[21:24] <Zero-> i believe this is why tulpaforcing is so hard for some
[21:24] <Zero-> because there isn't the initial "you perceive" step
[21:24] <Zero-> you have to work with nothing, because there's nothing to be perceived
[21:25] <Zero-> so instead of memorizing something i perceived, and then associating it, i reversed the process
[21:25] <Zero-> i associated my tulpa with the future, which in term created a memory of me being with her
[21:26] <Zero-> and as i start creating memories closer and closer to the present, i was also creating new associations - i pictured different situations, lived out different things with her
[21:26] <Zero-> so, by the time i got to "1 year from now", i already had four years of memories with my tulpa
[21:26] <Zero-> i obviously can't edit her into my past, so i edited her into the future instead - regardless, i have memories of her
[21:26] <Zero-> and memories of things make them real
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[21:27] <Celestial> yup
[21:27] <Zero-> then i got to the distant future, which is something we associate with the present
[21:27] <Zero-> because, tomorrow is as much the present as today, if you compare it to 5 years from now
[21:27] <Zero-> and i believe that is why she started feeling so real
[21:28] <Zero-> because, in creating memories with her, it started feeling as though we had a past - even though we hadn't - and then that "past" led up to the present
[21:28] <Zero-> which is how your memories work
[21:28] <Zero-> and that's why creation was so easy for me, because my tulpa was already there, even though she wasn't
[21:28] <Zero-> now, you all already have tulpas, but this is an example of how to force through reverse-engineering association
[21:28] <Zero-> another example would be smell
[21:29] <Zero-> to impose smell, what i would do, is put on one specific perfume whenever i force my tulpa, and also only when i force my tulpa
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[21:29] <Zero-> so, that means that i smell the same thing, every time i force my tulpa
[21:29] <Zero-> after a certain amount of time, whenever i think of my tulpa, i will smell that smell, even if i didn't put on the perfume
[21:29] <Zero-> see where i'm getting at?
[21:30] <Zero-> >inb4 i lost everyone
[21:30] <Zero-> i will never be a teacher of Tulpology ;_;
[21:30] <LDiabolo> I'm here, but I already read that before
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[21:31] <LDiabolo> and fukkin mibbit stopped working for me dafuq
[21:31] <Nick[Skyler]> yup
08[21:31] * LDiabolo (KiwiIRC@ldiabolo.megan.chelsea) Quit
[21:31] <Zero-> wait you all read this before?
[21:31] <Celestial> I'm here too zero-kun
[21:31] <Zero-> Celestial <3
[21:31] <Zero-> you're a sexy bitch
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[21:31] <Celestial> and the smell thing, yeah
[21:32] <V[Selena]> my eyes glazed over a bit
[21:32] <Celestial> the other is law of attraction in a way
[21:32] <Celestial> though you put a nice spin on it
[21:33] <V[Selena]> you're making sense, zero
 
[21:49] <Zero-> i disappeared
[21:49] <Celestial> ah
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[21:49] <Norkkom> welcome back Zerer
[21:50] <Zero-> thenku
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[21:50] <Zero-> so
[21:50] <Zero-> uh
[21:51] <Zero-> is anyone interested in more of that?
[21:51] <Celestial> yaaaa
[21:51] <Zero-> i've spent pretty much the whole time i've been tupperforcing working on alternate methods and approaches, also incorporating a lot of the psychology stuff i had learned before it
[21:52] <Zero-> alright, since we're already on the topic of association
08[21:52] * Xygon (~Behold@Oxy.Gone.Low) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[21:52] <Zero-> i came up with this thing called "Fear forcing"
[21:53] <LDiabolo> hahaha
[21:53] <Celestial> do tell
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[21:53] <Pentium> luv u 2
[21:53] <Zero-> I'm sure everyone in here has had one of those nights where they were walking home, alone, late at night, and it was dark
[21:53] <Zero-> you hear some rustling here and there, it's not exactly scary but slightly offputting
[21:53] <Zero-> then, in your peripherals, you think you see someone walking
[21:53] <Celestial> and you feel things nearby, yeah
[21:54] <Zero-> you turn around, look - there's no one there
[21:54] <Zero-> so you tell yourself "hah, must've been my imagination"
[21:54] <Zero-> and it was, in fact
[21:54] <LDiabolo> then you hear it again and die
[21:54] <Celestial> oh LDiabolo you're such a rogue
[21:55] <Zero-> so
[21:55] <Zero-> i started thinking about all the times i was scared
[21:55] <Zero-> and during those times, i often heard noises and saw shadows that i normally never heard
[21:55] <Zero-> i was more alert
[21:55] <Zero-> and more prone to hallucination
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[21:55] <Zero-> the latter, that's what's important and interesting in this practice
[21:55] <Zero-> remember when you were little, you would see a shadow in your room that looked like a monster?
[21:56] <LDiabolo> hands. coming. from. under. the. bed.
[21:56] <Norkkom> No
[21:56] <Norkkom> I don't remember that :v
[21:56] <LDiabolo> :v
[21:56] <Zero-> you never saw creepy shadows as a kid?
[21:56] <Norkkom> :v :v :v topic pls
[21:56] <Norkkom> :v
[21:57] <Celestial> oh yeah, plenty
[21:57] <Norkkom> And yes, but they were never creepy. I sorta envisioned them as friendly, and was never afraid of them
[21:57] <Zero-> alright, that's fine, but quite a lot of kids saw creepy shadows in the dark
[21:57] <Zero-> then they cry for their parents
[21:57] <Norkkom> Fair enough.
[21:58] <Zero-> their parents walk in, turn on the lights, and it's just a pile of your favorite plushies
[21:58] <LDiabolo> pony plushies
[21:58] <Zero-> then they turn off the light again - this shadow is now no longer creepy
[21:58] <Zero-> because you're aware of them being your plush-oh, you
[21:58] <Zero-> anyway
[21:59] <Zero-> i thought of applying this same concept to tulpaforcing, except a bit differently
[21:59] <Zero-> Norkkom, what are you afraid of?
[21:59] <LDiabolo> Pro-Professor Snape, sir
[21:59] <Norkkom> I'm not sure.
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[21:59] <Norkkom> lol
[21:59] <Zero-> is there nothing that creeps you out?
08[21:59] * Pentium (~Penny@help.how.do.i.do.this) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[21:59] <Zero-> i'm not looking for outright fear here
[22:00] <Zero-> something that makes you feel uneasy
[22:00] <Norkkom> ah
[22:00] <Zero-> something unnatural, something creepy that makes you feel slightly more aware of yourself
[22:00] <Norkkom> I know there's something, because I've been afraid plenty before. I just can't of a specific cause of said fear
[22:01] <Norkkom> I'll get back to you on that
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[22:01] <Zero-> like when you're home alone, go to your bathroom but don't bother to turn the lights on, and when you're sitting down and taking a nice shit, you notice the shower curtains are closed
[22:01] <Zero-> and start envisioning all the things that might be there
[22:01] <Zero-> so you open the shower curtains but there's nothing
[22:01] <Norkkom> My shower curtains are always closed
[22:01] <Zero-> then you head back to your room, and you suddenly notice how silent it is
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13[22:01] * ChanServ sets mode: +o SkyeWint
[22:01] <Zero-> it's just as silent as before, but right now it feels too silent for some reason
[22:01] <Norkkom> I can't relate, but I can feel you I guess
[22:02] <Zero-> yeah, it doesn't apply for everyone
[22:02] <Norkkom> But I get the idea
[22:02] <Zero-> but if you know what scares you, you can do a lot of stuff with it
[22:02] <Zero-> for example
[22:02] <LDiabolo> really scare yourselves
[22:02] <Zero-> i'm deathly afraid of things beneath my bed
[22:02] <Zero-> no, not scare yourselves
[22:02] <Zero-> creep yourselves out
[22:02] <Norkkom> Spiders are pretty creepy. I like other arachnids tho
[22:03] <Zero-> i'm afraid of spiders too
[22:03] <Zero-> so
[22:03] <Norkkom> What would we use that for, then?
[22:03] <Zero-> using myself as an example, i'm afraid of spiders, ghosts, things beneath the bed and open closets
[22:03] <Zero-> what i would do
[22:03] <Norkkom> mkay
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[22:04] <schlondark> I aint 'fraid of no ghosts
[22:04] <Zero-> is (on a day off) spend most of the afternoon/evening watching ghost documentaries, footage of demon possession, poltergeists, and also watch things that put spiders in a bad light such as Arachnophobia
[22:04] <Norkkom> hue
[22:04] <Zero-> now
[22:04] <Zero-> these videos in themselves won't scare me
[22:04] <Zero-> or even creep me out
[22:04] <schlondark> >arachnaphobia
[22:04] <Norkkom> heh, but yeah, ok
[22:04] <schlondark> >you mean rubber spider movie right
[22:04] <Zero-> then at night, when it got dark, i'd turn off all lights and read a bunch of creepypastas
[22:05] <Reguile> there was a spider attached to my eye today, by a thread, I pulled it off and just kind of watched it, it was a really small spider
[22:05] <Zero-> schlondark: it's not about the movie itself being scary, it's about the concept it presents
[22:05] <schlondark> I know
[22:05] <Zero-> anyway
[22:05] <schlondark> they still could've spent a little bit more on the effects...
[22:05] <Zero-> by that point, i'dve flooded my brain with "scary concepts"
[22:05] <Norkkom> <Reguile> there was a spider attached to my eye today, <-- what the fuck
[22:05] <Reguile> but yeah, the only time i'd see thing sin the dark is if I was misinterpret something in existance, like a hoodie for a face
[22:05] <Zero-> so i'll open my closet, and sit in front of my bed
[22:05] <Reguile> attached by thread, not by feet
[22:05] <Norkkom> still
[22:05] <Norkkom> How did that even happen
[22:05] <Zero-> and start visualizing all the scary things that could happen in that situation
[22:06] <Norkkom> And ok
[22:06] <Reguile> and try to use that to help halucinate, and use that to help imposition?
[22:06] <Zero-> wait
[22:06] <Zero-> not done
[22:06] <Norkkom> ohboy
[22:06] <Zero-> i start thinking of all negative things that could happen at that moment
[22:06] <Zero-> i also start recalling moments in my life at which i was very afraid
[22:07] <Zero-> (these could also be socially embarrassing moments)
[22:07] <Norkkom> Mkay
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[22:07] <Zero-> by this point, i'll become very aware of all the sounds around me
[22:07] <Celestial> shit son, I'd be about ded by then
[22:07] <Zero-> every tick and hiss will sound like something
[22:07] <Zero-> and then i'll close my eyes
[22:07] <Zero-> and keep focusing on all those creepy things
[22:07] <Zero-> until i feel a negative presence nearby me
[22:08] <Norkkom> suddenly cat jumps on bed and you get a heart attack
[22:08] <Zero-> and i'll let that presence build up until it's like something is breathing in my neck
[22:08] <Zero-> that's how close it must feel
[22:08] <Norkkom> Ok, sounds good
[22:08] <Zero-> and at that point, i ask my tulpa "Ea, is that you?"
[22:08] <Zero-> and she'll say "yes"
[22:08] <Zero-> keep confirming
08[22:08] * @SkyeWint (~SkyeWinte@skye.and.winter) Quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
[22:08] <Zero-> "is this presence you?" "yes" "are you sure?" "yes"
[22:09] <Zero-> then the presence will stop feeling negative, but it'll still feel like there's a presence
[22:09] <Celestial> hah, moice switch
[22:09] <Zero-> which also means i just got accurate presence imposition - somebody is with me in my room, and it's my tulpa
[22:09] <Zero-> but i'm still creeped out
[22:09] <Zero-> so i would say "yo, i'm scared, sit here with me"
[22:09] <LDiabolo> >correlation to AT >everytime Ea talks to you you're scared as shit
[22:09] <Zero-> and i'd feel that presence draw closer
[22:10] <Celestial> I tried this before but I was missing the "it's you" part
[22:10] <Norkkom> lol LD
[22:10] <Zero-> and as that presence draws closer, i feel warmth on my side
[22:10] <LDiabolo> blood?
[22:10] <Zero-> and i associate (oh boy) that warmth with Ea
[22:11] <Zero-> which is also incidentally one of the first steps of touch imposition
[22:11] <Norkkom> hawt
[22:11] <Zero-> and basically you just continue doing that, associating presence and hallucinations with your tulpa
[22:11] <Zero-> and while scared, you're most susceptible to this
[22:11] <Zero-> and you don't want to feel alone while scared
[22:11] <schlondark> but you also run the risk of true fear hallucinations
[22:11] <Zero-> so it's much easier to (subjectively) solidify your tulpa's existence when you're in need of someone being with you
[22:11] <Zero-> yes
[22:12] <Zero-> that is true - this is risky
[22:12] <Zero-> preferably only to be used by relatively mentally stable people
[22:12] <schlondark> I didn't mean in a mental instability way
[22:12] <Zero-> it's more like
[22:13] <Zero-> it's not so dangerous that if a mentally stable person got fear hallucinations, they'd get out of hand
[22:13] <schlondark> some of the stuff the mind can produce can scare the absolute shit out of you especially if you're alredy wigging yourself out
[22:13] <Zero-> true
[22:13] <Zero-> it's in your power to change that though
[22:13] <Zero-> just like the shadow example
[22:13] <Zero-> i see a creepy shadow in my room
[22:13] <Zero-> i think it's something scary as fuck
[22:13] <Zero-> "Ea, is that you standing in the shadow?" "Yes"
[22:13] <Zero-> your tupper should co-operate, obviously
[22:14] <Zero-> everything that feels evil - ask your tupper if it's them
[22:15] <Zero-> associate any hallucinations with your tupper (unless you suddenly hallucinate a giant monster trying to eat you, in which case - try to mentally control that monster)
[22:15] <Zero-> that's unlikely to happen
[22:15] <Zero-> but i don't know your brains
[22:15] <schlondark> I think hallucinations are generally subtler than "imma eat you"
[22:16] <Xygon> I associate every weird thing happening to my body to her, sometimes when it's extremely ridiculous I just ask.
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[22:16] <Zero-> yes
[22:16] <schlondark> the problem there is if you associate too much stuff that isnt them with them
[22:16] <schlondark> ;x
[22:17] <Xygon> Well, if I think "woah she possessed" she says almost instantly "yeah, nope"
03[22:17] * Metal is now known as Metal{away}
[22:17] <Xygon> I never said I'm always right.
[22:17] <Zero-> schlondark: it's up to your tupper to help alter those hallucinations
[22:17] <Zero-> so it will actually BE them
[22:18] <schlondark> you didnt preface that statement with involving possession so I didn't assume it was
[22:18] <Celestial> what success did you have with the tech Zero-? I mean after the sessions proper
[22:18] <Zero-> the fear sessions?
[22:18] <Zero-> I never finished them, too scared
[22:18] <Zero-> i did get the presence though
[22:18] <Celestial> top lel
[22:18] <Zero-> also heat
[22:18] <Celestial> nice
[22:18] <Xygon> Same for me, but when dissociation.
[22:18] <schlondark> I think loading your imagination up with stuff similar to your tulpa might help
[22:18] <Xygon> That thing's scary.
[22:19] <schlondark> like looking at a bunch of references before forcing
[22:19] <Zero-> yesterday i was high, and got both pressure and texture imposition
[22:19] <Zero-> it was really weird, i came to the conclusion that imposition should be gradual
[22:19] <Zero-> sudden, powerful hallucinations are really scary
[22:19] <schlondark> actually irish_ said alice just showed up completely randomly while he was playing videogames all day
[22:20] <Zero-> the fuck
[22:20] <schlondark> so its not really always gradual
[22:20] <Zero-> why am i not that lucky ;_;
[22:20] <Celestial> geez
[22:20] <schlondark> he was trying to impose at the time though
[22:20] <Celestial> but yeah you gotta be really REALLY open to the idea
[22:20] <schlondark> sometimes good results just happen :/
[22:20] <Zero-> man
[22:20] <Zero-> i hope that happens to me
[22:20] <Zero-> i suck at intentional visualization though
[22:21] <Zero-> i can visualize, but not when i want to
[22:21] <Xygon> schlondark sometimes good results just happen :/
[22:21] <Zero-> it's like my boner back when i was 16, got hard all day, and when it came down to sex it did nothing
[22:21] <Xygon> True.
[22:21] <schlondark> I've gotten some levels of imposition from waking up randomly in the middle of the night into some dream-like state
[22:22] <Celestial> oh yeah, near sleep states are best states
[22:22] <Zero-> ^^^^^^^^
[22:22] <Zero-> _subc my new fav chan
[22:22] <schlondark> the problem is theres no way to control this
[22:22] <Xygon> I nailed switching countless times while in those states.
03[22:22] * Metal{away} is now known as Metal
[22:22] <Zero-> you've switched?
[22:22] <Zero-> EVERYBODY CAN SWITCH BUT ME
[22:22] <Xygon> Also got some episodes of "perfect visualization"
[22:22] <Zero-> alskduhfiouawefhe
[22:22] <Xygon> >nailed
[22:22] <Celestial> imposition, visualization, LDing, you name it
06[22:22] * schlondark actually switched in that state too ;x
[22:23] <Xygon> Which is ALMOST.
[22:23] <Celestial> grats Xygon
[22:23] <schlondark> I think it might actually be dreaming though
[22:23] <Shai[Telk|Oni}\Cherry> [I've never been into da states]
[22:23] <Xygon> Switching is Lucid Dreaming + Tulpa full possession
[22:23] <Xygon> Pretty much
[22:23] <Celestial> I luv this channel already
[22:23] <Zero-> dude
[22:23] <Zero-> wait
[22:23] <Zero-> wait
[22:23] <schlondark> you cant really LD while normalwakingstate though
[22:23] <Zero-> my zerosenses are tingling
[22:24] <Zero-> what schlon said
[22:24] <schlondark> o no
[22:24] <Zero-> but
[22:24] <Zero-> if i practiced lucidity
[22:24] <Xygon> I do too. But I have to not check the userlist.
[22:24] <Norkkom> [17:22:33] <Zero-> EVERYBODY CAN SWITCH BUT ME <-- Zero pls
[22:24] <Zero-> would that make switching/visualizing any easier?
[22:24] <Norkkom> pls
[22:24] <Celestial> LD is just full visualize + detach from senses
[22:24] <schlondark> mao said it doesnt help as much as you think it would iirc
[22:24] <Xygon> My visualization improved since I started to LD uhm...stradily.