Four Cannon Meta-Council Discussion

A number of concerned citizens of Four Cannon have brought for your attention this proposition: the creation of a Meta-Council. The purpose of this council is to encourage GMs to create a cohesive universe and compelling events through discussion and review of concepts. If a GM wants to run an adventure, they must contact a Meta-Council Member. That member will contact the other members to discuss the concept. In order to ratify an idea, it must receive a 4/5 majority vote on the concept. All votes against the concept must include feedback as to why. You may re-submit your idea after you have made changes, but exercise reason so as not to wear out the Meta-Council Members. The Meta-Council may require you to take extra time before you re-submit.

 

The Meta-Council will consist of five members, who are voted into their position by general vote. They then select two "backup" members, who will engage in discussion and voting if an Meta-Council Member cannot vote, or cannot vote objectively. Meta-Council members will serve a limited term of three months, after which time, they are eligible for re-election (if they so choose). In the event that a Meta-Council member is not performing effectively, a "kick vote" may be raised by the general public. It will require 3/5 popular vote to kick a Meta-Council member from their seat. Kick votes may only be raised once every two weeks. Players may announce their candidacy for a Meta-Council seat, but may not engage in campaigning or mudslinging.

 

Meta-Council members may GM an event, but cannot vote in the review of their concept. For this purpose, one of the Backup Members will take their seat for the discussion. Meta-Council members posting on the thread about the results of deliberations must do so while using a Secure Tripcode.

 

We will be commissioning the creation of a Meta-Council Google Spreadsheet to store issues, absentee votes, and Meta-Council member tripcodes. This spreadsheet will be kept secret. Also commissioning the creation of an IRC channel for the discussion of Meta-Council business, which will be done openly with muted lurkers allowed. The Meta-Council may choose to create a private, invitation-only channel for the discussion of sensitive topics as is needed. It will be logged only for their use, and the channel will be closed after the discussion is complete.

 

If you wish to be considered for a Meta-Council member seat, please announce your candidacy. A general vote will be taken soon.

 

[23:34] == Spark_Chaser [[email protected]] has joined #fourcannon-plan

[23:34] <Flora> now i'm going to spit a few bars so here me out

[23:34] <Cherenkov> will do

[23:35] <Spark_Chaser> Go for it.

[23:36] <Flora> now i might sound like a shit poster but this is a actual question i would like answeared

[23:36] <Flora> Who decided who get to decide what gets retconned on not because the only people i see who can approve actual things is Bacon

[23:37] <Flora> and know im not trying to knock on anyone

[23:38] <Grease_Lightning> that depends who you're asking

[23:39] == Rain_Drop [[email protected]] has joined #fourcannon-plan

[23:39] <Flora> just answer the question unbiased

[23:39] <Rain_Drop> waggle

[23:39] <Rain_Drop> imissed something didnt I?

[23:39] <Cherenkov> It's mostly a vote. Lots of adventures have been ran without Bacon's blessing, as it were. She is not in charge of 4c, but she is one of the more vocal about calling people out, so others assume she has power. Stuff such as regaining our human forms or whatever Mariel did with the humanity arc, most people can see as not happening in canon.

[23:40] <Flora> Seems she is the only one with the 'supposed power to approve something'

[23:41] <Flora> now the whole idea of a 4C meta council is to have a group of 5 people that can decide on things that happen and what can be cannon or lore or not because when you give one person all power over something it ruins it for everyone else.

[23:41] <Grease_Lightning> ^

[23:41] <Grease_Lightning> I told people to bring things up in public

[23:41] <Flora> change that last bit to 'others'

[23:42] <Rain_Drop> ok so should we have a google poll thing on thread host it for 2 or 3 days and then have the first council of Meta last a month with the ability to decide cannon and have adventure pass through them first?

[23:42] <Spark_Chaser> I like having a meta council, it makes it so more information is with more people, so a new GM can jump in and just ask a meta-council member for a signoff.

[23:42] <Rain_Drop> Cuz most the time we talk about it and we just never do anything with is

[23:42] <Rain_Drop> so lets just do it

[23:42] <Rain_Drop> like now

[23:42] <Spark_Chaser> Let us do!

[23:42] <Rain_Drop> select new blood with a couple of vets and have the option include a huge selection of ponies

[23:43] <Rain_Drop> there simple and consice

[23:43] <Rain_Drop> democrazy and all dat shit

[23:44] <Flora> have the group come up with with new lore ALONGSIDE the players and actually nudge them along to discover new things BUT also have them have a leash on things and not let stuff get out of hand like having players turn into dragons or some shit

[23:44] <Rain_Drop> and then next month new council and they use that law/habit of precedent so as to keep continously to the lore already established

[23:44] <Rain_Drop> right

[23:44] <Rain_Drop> ok so what would be the hard limit then?

[23:44] <Rain_Drop> having 3 of the 5 say its clear?

[23:44] <Rain_Drop> or something else?

[23:44] <Rain_Drop> what would be the limit?

[23:44] <Flora> but you have to pick fair people who wont squash peoples fun over little things. INNOVATORS WITH REASON

[23:45] <Cherenkov> Then there's the rule that really hasn't been enforced that posting of the results of adventures needs to happen in the thread or else it's not canon.

[23:45] <Spark_Chaser> If all the Council members are on the same page, then you should only need 1 signoff. If they aren't, three of the five.

[23:45] <Rain_Drop> ok so we need innovators with reason who should all be on the same page and within the same time zone for top avability and the like then

[23:46] <Rain_Drop> So to recap;

[23:46] <Flora> maybe 5 but looking back at Green's old post have interchangeable people  so if [name ] wants to include [dude] they can have a guy cover for that spot

[23:46] <Spark_Chaser> Or, they have a way to communicate extemporaneously.

[23:46] <Rain_Drop> step 1 make google poll for everyone to vote for 3 days step 2 post the powers of the council and its limits, when they are changed over and such

[23:46] <Rain_Drop> step 3 ????

[23:46] <Rain_Drop> step 4 FUN TIMEZ THAT HAS BEEN DOUBLED

[23:47] <Rain_Drop> that about it

[23:47] <Rain_Drop> ?

[23:47] <Spark_Chaser> Who are we going to put on the poll?

[23:47] <Cherenkov> again, Rain, that leaves out other time zones that want to run adventures. Maybe have cooridination between euro, america, and pacific bros?

[23:47] <Flora> but you need interchangeable people so the members  of the council can still go on adventures and stuff

[23:48] <Spark_Chaser> Maybe have 7 members, and you need 3 signoffs. They may choose to put your idea up for a general vote if it changes lore.

[23:48] <Rain_Drop> no no dont make it overly complicated spark

[23:48] <Spark_Chaser> General council vote that is

[23:48] <Rain_Drop> have to make it ncie and simple so it works

[23:48] <Spark_Chaser> Then they have to have a way to communicate. A google doc should do the trick.

[23:49] <Rain_Drop> also for the timezone then have it linked like the signals of osgilith or what ever they were called when Gondor called for aid via signal fires to Rohan

[23:49] <Flora> if it's something really big in lore changing have a town vote

[23:49] <Flora> everyone should be involved if the vote is to have a giant dragon set up shop near by

[23:49] <Flora> for example

[23:50] <Spark_Chaser> Hmmmmmm.

[23:50] <Rain_Drop> i was going to jsut have everyone be on the poll really

[23:50] <Cherenkov> >all 50+ people. lel.

[23:51] <GreenSleeves> I dunno about that, Rain. I mean, some people might not even /want/ a position on it.

[23:51] <Cherenkov> we're middle east liberation democracy country all over again

[23:51] <Flora> but you still would have to have interchangeable GM's that can take over [lets say if one wants to adventure or breaks there computer or leaves]

[23:51] <Spark_Chaser> So you're saying that for larger quest arcs, players get to have a say as to whether we do them? I feel like that would eliminate the fun of discovery for them.

[23:51] <Rain_Drop> If no one else is going to want to do it then ill jsut do it

[23:51] <Rain_Drop> then 2nd question will have the secondary Council member who can swithc out

[23:51] <Rain_Drop> a secondary council meta thing like VPs

[23:51] <Spark_Chaser> k.

[23:51] <Flora> no i meant something that could change the town [like have a giant dragon live in the middle of town]

[23:52] <Spark_Chaser> But that becomes a quest cycle.

[23:52] <Flora> permenantly i might add

[23:52] <Rain_Drop> survey monkey works right for polls?

[23:52] <Flora> lets take for example the HAPPENING that went down

[23:52]  * GreenSleeves is lost...

[23:52] <Flora> we needed a town vote for that

[23:52] <Rain_Drop> then the council would need to make a poll that says yes or no on it heppening

[23:53] <Spark_Chaser> That would be the point of the meta-council. To approve changes to lore or things that could change us forever.

[23:54] <Flora> hmm i'm losing myself here to a degree

[23:54] <Rain_Drop> sleeves goes down like this, everyone votes for 5 metacouncil members then 5 secondary metacouncil members who work in conjucntion with other pcs to develop lore and the like so as to have quality control they rule for a month then we do the whole thing over agian, if you cant get all to be on same page then you need 3 of the 5 to do it

[23:54] <Flora> hold on there Rain

[23:54] <Cherenkov> Wait, so vote for new councilmembers every month? that doesn't establish consistancy of quality.

[23:55] <GreenSleeves> ^

[23:55] <Flora> if the GMs do a good job and dont abuse shit let them stay on a lot longer in there seats

[23:55] <Flora> ^ cheren

[23:55] == Cherenkov has changed nick to red1384

[23:55] <Flora> plus the GM's would have to let PCs come up with stuff to

[23:56] <Spark_Chaser> Exactly. A vote of no confidence if they screw up royally.

[23:56] <Rain_Drop> they would have to establish lore and acknowldeg it when the new council comes into office unless you want them to do it for 3 months

[23:57] <Flora> i would want indefinetely if the people do a great job

[23:57] <Spark_Chaser> ^

[23:57] <GreenSleeves> Understand that the people on the #metacouncil don't /need/ to be GMs. The point was for it to be a group that would work /with/ GMs in gauging the possible reception of a quest, and to take the blame IN PLACE ofthe GM when bad lore gets introduced.

[23:57] <Spark_Chaser> ^

[23:57] <GreenSleeves> IE, if a bad idea gets through the Metacouncil, it's their fault, not the GMs.

[23:57] <Flora> [sorry i was using GM as a vague term]

[23:58] <GreenSleeves> [Kay, sorry..]

[23:58] <red1384> [why are we speaking in brackets?]

[23:58] == red1384 has changed nick to Cherenkov

[23:58] <GreenSleeves> [Shhhh~]

[23:58] <Rain_Drop> yeah figured that but still guys were do i go for looking for the polls?

[23:58] <Spark_Chaser> [It's fun.}

[23:58] <Flora> not yet Rain

[23:58] <Flora> but soon hopefully when we get to a conclusion

[23:59] <Flora> and i hope for the better

[23:59] <GreenSleeves> Take it slow, Rain. This is a big issue, we'll take it a step at a time.

[23:59] <Rain_Drop> well what else do we need to lay out?

[23:59] <Flora> i enjoy 4C and don't want to lose it

[23:59] <GreenSleeves> To start, we need to know who even /wants/ these positions.

[23:59] <Cherenkov> if enough of the player base has an issue with a GM or lore, they should be able to take it to someone for review. See TideQuest fallout.

[00:00] <Rain_Drop> well I have taken it slow and thats the problem if no one does anything then nothing gets done and when nothing gets djne then everyone freaks the fuck out and leaves and when everyone leaves then...then im alone and have no one to talk to...

[00:00] <Spark_Chaser> Rain, we are doing this tonight. We're just gonna do it right.

[00:00] <Flora> Rain hold up a sec

[00:00] <Flora> remember right now only 5 people are talking in a civilized manner

[00:00] <GreenSleeves> This is the first real bit of discussion I've seen on the Metacouncil I suggested, Rain. Honestly, with the wrong people in it it can turn out pretty bad, from a PR perpective.

[00:01] <Spark_Chaser> Yup.

[00:01] <Cherenkov> well, other than the thread and the times you weren't here.

[00:01] <Flora> i would like to discusse it in a larger group where everyone can be heard

[00:01] <Cherenkov> so back to main?

[00:01] <Flora> but i know thats impossible here

[00:01] <Flora> first lets list everything

[00:02] <Spark_Chaser> Let's figure out the logistics here, then take a proposal to a general vote.

[00:02] <GreenSleeves> The discussion in the thread was pretty brief, but I can't attest to what's happened when I'm not here.

[00:02] <Cherenkov> 5 on the council seems fine.

[00:02] <Rain_Drop> ^

[00:02] <GreenSleeves> ^

[00:02] <Spark_Chaser> Then a backup of 5 for a total of ten.

[00:02] <Spark_Chaser> ?

[00:02] <Flora> with inerchangeable peolpe behind them

[00:02] <Rain_Drop> Yep

[00:02] <Rain_Drop> so we agreed on that

[00:03] <Flora> yes

[00:03] <GreenSleeves> Backup for each member isn't really necessary, IMO.

[00:03] <Flora> it would be prefered

[00:03] <Spark_Chaser> 2 Backups?

[00:03] <Flora> 1 should be fine

[00:03] <Rain_Drop> Backup as in they can switch out and the back ups can be in the know in the channel the meta talks it

[00:03] <GreenSleeves> I mean, at tops one ot two stand ins. We'll never need more than that.

[00:03] <Al_Dente> I feel like am late to the party

[00:03] <Al_Dente> and I dont see any way to make sense of what is going on atm

[00:03] <Flora> read Al

[00:03] <Rain_Drop> better to have more than less sleeves

[00:03] <GreenSleeves> [Al, are you still high?]

[00:04] <Flora> so 1 to 2 back ups?

[00:04] <Flora> correct?

[00:04] <Al_Dente> No i have chose not to pay attention

[00:04] <Al_Dente> to what is going on lately because of how much

[00:04] <GreenSleeves> Keeping 5 extra people kept in the loop is sort of hard, though.

[00:04] <Al_Dente> well you know

[00:04] <Spark_Chaser> Yeah.

[00:04]  * Cherenkov sets backup number to 2.

[00:04] <Rain_Drop> BAsically metacouncil that works in conjucition with Gms and PCs to nudge lore in the correct stnadpoint and for keeping the shitstorms down

[00:04] <Spark_Chaser> So, limited or unlimited term with no confidence vote to kick?

[00:04] <Flora> true but it can be done

[00:04] <Rain_Drop> sleeves goes down like this, everyone votes for 5 metacouncil members then 5 secondary metacouncil members who work in conjucntion with other pcs to develop lore and the like so as to have quality control they rule for a month then we do the whole thing over agian, if you cant get all to be on same page then you need 3 of the 5 to do it

[00:04] <Rain_Drop> repost of whats so far happening

[00:05] <Flora> wow wow wow if a "GM" fucks up royal too many times they get the boot

[00:05] <Rain_Drop> with editions that the term would be 3 months

[00:05] <Flora> wow wow wow if a "GM" fucks up royal too many times they get the boot

[00:05] <Spark_Chaser> I vote for Unlimited with "no Confidence" kick.

[00:05] <Flora> [i dont know if you saw it under Rain's post]

[00:05] <Cherenkov> seconded.

[00:05] <Rain_Drop> I would go with limited with no confidence kick as well

[00:06] <Spark_Chaser> So how many votes limited?

[00:06] <GreenSleeves> In my suggestion, I explain that standins could/would be used on an as-needed basis. That is, say metacouncil member xyz is involved in something being discussed IC and wants to step out of the metacouncil while they discuss it OOC. That person is replaced in the meantime.

[00:06] <Cherenkov> that's only if they can't separate OoC from IC, Sleeves.

[00:06] <GreenSleeves> >and wants to

[00:07] <Flora> i do like Sleeves Idea of diffrent contact circles

[00:07] <Flora> i don't know if im getting off topic but you can have eveyone all buddy buddy then they form a little clique and then share one brain

[00:07] <Flora> *can't have

[00:08] <GreenSleeves> That's exactly why I suggested it, Flora.

[00:08] <Rain_Drop> hence the limited terms imo

[00:08] <Cherenkov> it's after midnight, sleeves. I had to take my car in early this morning. didn't see that part.

[00:08] <GreenSleeves> Don't worry about it, Chere.~

[00:08] <Cherenkov> Term limit six months then?

[00:08] <Flora> [i didn;t  read it right]

[00:09] <Rain_Drop> sure

[00:09] <Spark_Chaser> That's a good limit.

[00:09] <Flora> i would like longer if the 'GM' did a grea job

[00:09] <Spark_Chaser> Half a year, spend the last month packing up your lore to hand over.

[00:09] <Spark_Chaser> Re-election.

[00:09] <Rain_Drop> works for me

[00:09] == GreenLightGM [[email protected]] has joined #fourcannon-plan

[00:10] <Flora> but know PCs are supposed to come up with stuff to that can lead into adventures

[00:10] <Liven> So what have we acomplished?

[00:10] == CaptGreenHoof [[email protected]] has joined #fourcannon-plan

[00:10] <Flora> [sorry if i post funny]

[00:10] <Rain_Drop> now in choosing who WANTs to do this do we just ask on thread about it or just have everyone be an option?

[00:10] <Spark_Chaser> Metacouncil of 5+1 with a 6 month term limit.

[00:10] <Liven> I want to be in it!~

[00:10] <CaptGreenHoof> +1?

[00:10] <Spark_Chaser> And a Kick vote if they suck.

[00:10] <GreenLightGM> I recall Sleeves really wanted to be in.  ^

[00:10] <Cherenkov> Set it at two, spark.

[00:11] <Spark_Chaser> Metacouncil of 5+2 with a 6 month term limit and empeachment.

[00:11] <Flora> yes the kick part but i thought we were going with each "GM" has a back

[00:11] <CaptGreenHoof> I'd like Sleeves on it, and not just cause green bias.

[00:11] <Flora> a back or 2

[00:11] <Rain_Drop> 5 on the council seems fine. Then a backup of 5 for a total of ten. now we discussing how far a term lasts which might be 6 months

[00:11] <City_Planner_Mare> oh shit

[00:11] <Spark_Chaser> that's the +2, flora

[00:11] <Cherenkov> 2 backups should be fine.

[00:11] <City_Planner_Mare> what i  miss

[00:12] <Flora> AH ok

[00:12] <Spark_Chaser> Alot

[00:12] <Flora> thanks for the clear up

[00:12] <City_Planner_Mare> damnit

[00:12] <Rain_Drop> so everyone updated so far?

[00:12] <Spark_Chaser> NP.

[00:12] <Cherenkov> keeping five others up to date would be a bit more of a hassle.

[00:12] <GreenSleeves> Still don't agree with 5 backups, Rain.

[00:12] <CaptGreenHoof> 5 backups might be hard to keep up with.

[00:12] <Rain_Drop> mk ill drop the 5 and keep the 2 thing

[00:13] <Flora> know we are talking things in a civilized adult manner everyone who just came in

[00:13] <Rain_Drop> i mean i withdraw the 5 bakc ups and support the 2 back ups

[00:13] <Liven> I don't think that just because you'r eon the counicl IC you should be on this one

[00:13] <Spark_Chaser> So, do we want to have re-election a possibility? How about cycling some out at different times?

[00:13] <GreenSleeves> I'm still pushing for only a single backup.

[00:14] <Flora> you can dont have to tell the other back up "GM" until they are needed

[00:14] <Cherenkov> <3 you too, Liven. It's sad that the most proactive OoC are also the most proactive IC.

[00:14] <Rain_Drop> reelection can be dependant on popularity and a refreash term say 2 consecutive terms and then you have to wait a term to get reelceted then?

[00:14] <Spark_Chaser> I like that, to a degree.

[00:14] <GreenLightGM> >Most proactive IC

[00:14] <City_Planner_Mare> So um

[00:14] <GreenLightGM> [[Not in FC anymore]]

[00:14] <City_Planner_Mare> Any idea that has been agreed on sofar?

[00:14] <City_Planner_Mare> so far*

[00:14] <Spark_Chaser> Means you have some time to recharge.

[00:14] <Liven> Okay, let me rephrase that. I think that just because you're on doesn't mean you're automatically given a seat, but if you're the best for the job and on the counicl then you belong on both.

[00:15] <GreenLightGM> I'd say the 5+1 is best

[00:15] <Flora> [were going to have a election Liven]

[00:15] <Spark_Chaser> Okay, there's alot of discussion on the number of backups. Let's all say how many we'd like in a calm and orderly manner, and then make comprimises from there? I'd go for 2.

[00:15] <Flora> [council members might not be on it depending on how people vote]

[00:16]  * GreenLightGM nominates those that have worked the hardest/frequent FC the most, attempting to pull from different circles

[00:16] <Rain_Drop> 5 members with either 1 or 2 bakc ups for swtiching out who work with gms on lore and approving it, with a term of 6 months who can be elected twice if done well and then take a break for a term off the job who can be impeached if something slips through their grasp and is something they fuck up in failing to catch

[00:16] <GreenSleeves> Just 1 backup.

[00:16] <Rain_Drop> think that is waht we have agreed on?

[00:16] <Cherenkov> 2 backups. :3

[00:16] <Rain_Drop> 2

[00:16] <Flora> 2

[00:16] <CaptGreenHoof> 2

[00:17] <GreenSleeves> I don't think the re-election clause is really necessary.

[00:17] <Cherenkov> agreed.

[00:17] <Rain_Drop> it also allows some folks who are tired a chance to break off and prevents what happened with FDR who got reaelected like 4 times

[00:17] <Flora> i say indefinelty unless the fuck up royal and/or abuse of power

[00:17] <GreenLightGM> But I liked FDR...

[00:17] <Spark_Chaser> Okay, we have 5 votes for 2 backups, one vote for 1.

[00:17] <GreenLightGM> Agreed, Flora

[00:17] <Cherenkov> well, only if they want off.

[00:18] <Cherenkov> Otherwise they can decline the nomination next cycle

[00:18] <Spark_Chaser> ^

[00:18] <Rain_Drop> well its to also stop people from doing what they accuse Able of doing as well if they get relected a lot

[00:18] <Spark_Chaser> Empeachment.

[00:19] <Spark_Chaser> If they suck, no confidence vote is taken.

[00:19] <CaptGreenHoof> Hue, no, I only want 1 backup.

[00:19] <Flora> you can get reelected if you are good at the job and if your not for it empeachment

[00:19] <GreenSleeves> [Hoof, pls]

[00:19] <Spark_Chaser> So then 4 for 2 backups, 2 for 1.

[00:19] <Flora> you need a 5 people to start

[00:19]  * Liven thinks we need an odd number

[00:19]  * GreenLightGM thinks one backup is enough...

[00:20] <GreenSleeves> [Don't listen to Hoof, he's just voting like that because I did.~]

[00:20] <GreenLightGM> Because, if one person is absent:

[00:20] <GreenSleeves> [/me appreciates the gesture anyway~]

[00:20] <GreenLightGM> 4 on

[00:20] <GreenLightGM> Backup takes place

[00:20] <GreenLightGM> 5 on

[00:20] <Flora> no no 5 on and each 2-2 back ups

[00:20] <Flora> 1-2

[00:21] <Flora> when we decide the number ofbacks

[00:21] <CaptGreenHoof> [fuck you, Sleeves. My vote is one]

[00:21] <GreenLightGM> Ah.  Well, so long as there's consistently 5, like one backup has precedent over the other I vote for 2

[00:21] <Cherenkov> 5 form the core. 2 [or 1 depending on outcome of the vote] are backups incase people are absent.

[00:21]  * Spark_Chaser sighs.

[00:21] <CaptGreenHoof> Honestly I don't give much of a fuck about backups. We should focus more on the primaries right now.

[00:21] == Rain_Drop [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]

[00:21] <Cherenkov> yes, Spark, it's a town council meeting all over again!

[00:22] == Rain_Drop [[email protected]] has joined #fourcannon-plan

[00:22] <Spark_Chaser> We have to set numbers to know how many we'll need voted in. After that, we can discuss the rest of the logistics.

[00:22] <Flora> back are important Hoof

[00:22] <Spark_Chaser> Also, Backups could be appointed position by the Metacouncil.

[00:22] <GreenSleeves> ^

[00:23] <Spark_Chaser> Like, the council talks out who they want as the 1 or 2 backups.

[00:23] <GreenSleeves> No need to vote for them, seeing as they're secondary anyway.

[00:23] <Liven> Before we have Meta Council backups, can we get the regular council backups I suggested ages ago taken care of?

[00:23] <GreenLightGM> Ugh, pls no IC council talk.  Shit gets nowhere

[00:23] <Flora> [4C council not right at the moment]

[00:23] <Spark_Chaser> Given the fecal flurry of 5c, this may take precedence.

[00:23] <Cherenkov> that would have to be for the town council to talk about. and agreed, Liven.

[00:24] <Cherenkov> *gl

[00:24] <Flora> but talk about 4c council later pls

[00:24] <Cherenkov> flora, whatever.

[00:24] <Liven> Sorry...

[00:24] <Flora> [it's k]

[00:25] <Cherenkov> yeah, towncouncil for later, and remember people can always vote on 5c happening or not in 4c canon, considering the ramifications.

[00:25] <City_Planner_Mare> ^

[00:26] <CaptGreenHoof> What're the ramifications?

[00:26] <Rain_Drop> so i miss anything?

[00:26] == Redlight [[email protected]] has joined #fourcannon-plan

[00:26] <GreenLightGM> See, here's the thing.  I have a feeling the vast majority of 4c wants 5c canon

[00:26] <Cherenkov> we'll talk about that shitstorm later, hoof. discuss metacouncil for now.

[00:26] <Spark_Chaser> So... What is the final vote on number of backups? The greens voted together for 1? The rest voted for 2?

[00:26] <GreenLightGM> *NONCANON

[00:26] <Cherenkov> correct, spark

[00:26] <GreenLightGM> Hue, changed to 2, Sparky

[00:26] <Liven> Well I'm about as useless as a wet piece of toilet paper here.

[00:26] == Hearth [[email protected]] has joined #fourcannon-plan

[00:26] <Flora> [later Nova but for now lets come to a consensus for this meta council]

[00:26] <Hearth> PUT ME ON THE COUNCIL

[00:27]  * CaptGreenHoof fucks Hearth

[00:27] <Hearth> PUT ME IN COACH!

[00:27] <Spark_Chaser> Okay. So it looks like we're gonna have two backups. Who votes for the backups being appointed?

[00:27] <GreenLightGM> Liven pls

[00:27] <Flora> [pls dont shit post]

[00:27] <Cherenkov> HI SKYPE

[00:27] <CaptGreenHoof> I vote for them being appointed

[00:27] <GreenSleeves> I'm up for thembeing appointed.

[00:27] <Boris[Ronin]> Hi CHer

[00:27] <CaptGreenHoof> hey Cheren!

[00:27] <City_Planner_Mare> Join skype Cheren

[00:27] <GreenLightGM> >Skype this late

[00:27] <CaptGreenHoof> You should join skype

[00:27] <City_Planner_Mare> You faget

[00:27] <Flora> [guy seriously skype can wait]

[00:27]  * Cherenkov forgot his password....

[00:27] <Spark_Chaser> I vote for.

[00:27] <GreenLightGM> ^

[00:28] <City_Planner_Mare> [wait what flora?]

[00:28] <Rain_Drop> meh im ok with the council being the ones to appint the bakc ups then

[00:28] <GreenLightGM> [To Flora]

[00:28] <Cherenkov> appointed, sure.

[00:28] <Boris[Ronin]> Press the "I forgot my password"

[00:28] <Flora> [lets reache a consencsus on the matter at hand]

[00:28] <GreenLightGM> And please, if you're planning on GMing, try to refrain from going on the council, so as to avoid bias

[00:28] <GreenSleeves> ^

[00:28] <Hearth> I should be on the council, 0 bias

[00:28] <Hearth> :D

[00:28] <GreenLightGM> Liven not now.

[00:28] <Hearth> Liven?  Where?

[00:29] <Boris[Ronin]> Hurf should be on the council

[00:29] <Redlight> >avoid bias. Do we even have enough players for this shit?

[00:29] <Spark_Chaser> We are not talking about who is on yet. we are currently discussing the logistics of it. Afterwards there will be a general vote.

[00:29] <Flora> so 5 council members with 1-2 backs?  Yes?

[00:29] <Spark_Chaser> 2 backs.

[00:29] <Redlight> there are wut, 20-ish regulars?

[00:29] <Spark_Chaser> So far 5 For, none Against the backups being appointed

[00:30] <Flora> pls everyone one vote this is important

[00:30]  * Hearth is a great candidate for council. Vote Hurf for council member.

[00:30]  * GreenLightGM votes for 5, 2 backup

[00:30] <Rain_Drop> ^

[00:30] <Spark_Chaser> No campaigning now.

[00:30]  * Flora votes for 5 with 2 backs

[00:30]  * GreenSleeves is still after 1 backup.

[00:30] <Flora> [oops]

[00:30] <Hearth> Sorry, I'll stop

[00:30] <GreenLightGM> Liven, if you want my vote to be on the council stop now.

[00:30] <Hearth> Drew pls

[00:30] <Spark_Chaser> We have agreed on 5 with 2. are voting on appointment of backs.

[00:31] <Liven> Dude I'm not doing shit

[00:31] <Hearth> This ain't Liven

[00:31] <Flora> [stop it]

[00:31] <Rain_Drop> and the apointment by council member is good by me

[00:31] <Flora> [be serious]

[00:31] <Liven> It's seriously not me

[00:31] <GreenLightGM> hue

[00:31] <Redlight> 5 for. Welp, it's decided

[00:31] <Spark_Chaser> Okay.

[00:31] <GreenLightGM> Fooled by server name

[00:32] <Spark_Chaser> Metacouncil of 5+2, Backs are appointed. Limited term of 6 months?

[00:32] <Redlight> >6 months >limited

[00:32] <Redlight> that's like 3 internet years

[00:32] <Flora> [all those for it say aye]

[00:33]  * GreenLightGM should really pay attention to finer details.  And glad you're back, harf

[00:33] <Spark_Chaser> Aye

[00:33] <Cherenkov> aye

[00:33] <GreenLightGM> Aye

[00:33] <Rain_Drop> I vote that the appointment thing si alright by me

[00:33] <Hearth> Hue, it's alright

[00:33] <Flora> aye

[00:33] <Rain_Drop> Aye

[00:33] <GreenSleeves> Aye aye, captain.

[00:33] <Rain_Drop> damn net connection lag

[00:33] <Liven> Yeah, so don't just throw accussations at me

[00:34]  * GreenLightGM throws lemon pies instead

[00:34]  * Liven is not ammused

[00:34]  * Hearth is amused :3

[00:34] <Spark_Chaser> 5 For, 0 Against 6 Mo Term limit. Re-election allowed, General Kick Vote?

[00:34] <Flora> so everyone that voted for yes to what spark said  has voted right?]

[00:34] <Hearth> oh and AMUSED* sheesh Liven

[00:34] <Flora> [all apposed say nay]

[00:35] <Liven> I'm not an English major

[00:35] <Hearth> Neither am I, applied math yo

[00:35] <Flora> [no one saying no to this?]

[00:36] <Cherenkov> doesn't look like it

[00:36] <Spark_Chaser> I guess it's a 6 month limit.

[00:36] <Spark_Chaser> Re-election allowed, General Kick Vote?

[00:36] <Flora> [well alright]   5 For, 0 Against 6 Mo Term limit. Re-election allowed, General Kick Vote

[00:36] <Liven> I'm againts the 6 month limit

[00:36] <Spark_Chaser> Okay.

[00:36] <Liven> I'd say 3 or 4

[00:37] <GreenLightGM> General Kick- 3/5 of Four Cannon population?

[00:37] <Spark_Chaser> Yup.

[00:37] <Spark_Chaser> Alright, let's levy the pros and cons of 6 vs. 3 month.

[00:37] <Flora> this is just for logistics mind you  

[00:37] <Redlight> as if ppl will keep track of time....they will won't they..

[00:37] <Spark_Chaser> 3 month will make it so that kick votes will be enacted less often.

[00:38] <Spark_Chaser> 6 month will make it so the council will have more consistency.

[00:38] <Cherenkov> if people do their jobs right, kick votes shouldn't happen at all

[00:38] == Rain_Drop [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]

[00:38] <GreenSleeves> Exactly.

[00:38] <Liven> Consistency can still be acheived if they members are doing a good job

[00:39] <Flora> if the "GMs" are doing well 6 months would be best if they fuck up then they get impeached

[00:39] <Flora> 3 moths is too short a time

[00:39] <Spark_Chaser> I agree, Chere. And also, Liven, I agree there, too. we just have to plan for the worst.

[00:39] <Redlight> re-elections makes 3 months fair

[00:39] <Redlight> cuz most likely incumbents will stay in power

[00:39] <Hearth> It's also should be pointed out that we are just about 6 months old

[00:39] <Redlight> though I would go for 2 month terms..

[00:39] <Flora> [and look where we are]

[00:40] <Spark_Chaser> And we started having problems 3 months in with the calls of "Inner-Circle". So maybe 3 months isn't a bad number to counter ill will.

[00:40] <Hearth> I think 2 or 3 would be good, leaning towards 3 though

[00:41] <Flora> shall we compromise and say 4-5 months

[00:41] <GreenLightGM> ^

[00:41] <Cherenkov> Still good with six. And inner circle crap happened because people took a joke seriously

[00:41] <GreenLightGM> Erm, 3

[00:41] <Spark_Chaser> Okay everyone, vote time: 2-3 or 6?

[00:41] <Flora> [i still like 6]

[00:41] <GreenLightGM> Cheren, if it wasn't true at least to some degree 5c wouldn't exist.

[00:42]  * Flora would like 6 months

[00:42] <Liven> 6 is a bit much. That would mean throut our entire existance so far, the same group of people would have been in control from birth to today

[00:42] <Hearth> I say 3

[00:42] <Redlight> that joke should've never happened. i would've preferred being ignorant about exclusive clubs

[00:42] <Cherenkov> 5c happened partly due to the bitching of innercircle. lel.

[00:42] <Flora> true

[00:42]  * Liven is still head of the most excluive club in 4c; the fag maffia

[00:42] <Spark_Chaser> I'm a bit torn. I think I'll vote 3.

[00:43] <GreenLightGM> ^

[00:43] <Flora> 4?

[00:43] <Spark_Chaser> Okay.

[00:43] <Flora> 4 for 4C :P

[00:43] <GreenLightGM> I considered 6, until I realized FC is 6 months old

[00:43] <Spark_Chaser> Everyone voted?

[00:43] <GreenSleeves> Sorry, was pissing.

[00:43] <GreenSleeves> 3 seems fine.

[00:44] <Flora> so a revote is probably in order

[00:44] <Spark_Chaser> 5 for 3, 1 for 6, 1 for 4.

[00:44] <Redlight> 5 for 3. welp, there's your consensus

[00:44] <Liven> Like I said, look at it as if we did this from the get-go, we'd just now be revoting

[00:44] <Spark_Chaser> Looks like 3 it is.

[00:44] <Flora> that works

[00:45]  * Liven votes 3

[00:45] <Spark_Chaser> Metacouncil of 5+2 appointed backs. 3 month term limit with re-election allowed.

[00:45] <Spark_Chaser> Kick vote? Yea or Nay?

[00:45] <Spark_Chaser> Yay.

[00:45] <Cherenkov> yay

[00:45] <GreenSleeves> Yay1

[00:45] <GreenLightGM> Yea

[00:46] <Flora> yea

[00:46] <Redlight> That goes without saying.

[00:46] <Flora> [any other votes?]

[00:46] <Hearth> Yea

[00:47] <Flora> [5]

[00:47]  * GreenLightGM feels like this is 'FC: The Next Gen'

[00:47] <Spark_Chaser> 6 Yay, 0 stated Nays. How much required to kick, 1/2 or 3/4 General?

[00:47] <Flora> [4]

[00:47] <Flora> [nvm]

[00:47] <GreenLightGM> 3/5

[00:47] <Cherenkov> 3/5

[00:47] <Liven> 3/5

[00:47] <GreenSleeves> 3/5

[00:47] <GreenLightGM> ;3

[00:47] <Redlight> I must agree with that number.

[00:47] <Flora> is that for months or..]

[00:48] <Spark_Chaser> Hmmmm. It seems we have a miscommunication. I had been thinking a General Populace vote for Kick. You were thinking of an in-council vote?

[00:48] <Flora> [oh incouncil vote]

[00:48] <Cherenkov> general populace I think

[00:48] <GreenSleeves> Oh no, I mean general population.

[00:48] <GreenSleeves> 3/5 of it.

[00:48] == Rain_Drop [[email protected]] has joined #fourcannon-plan

[00:49] <Flora> im cool with 3/5 general population vote

[00:49] <Spark_Chaser> Okay.

[00:49] <Spark_Chaser> Metacouncil of 5+2 appointed backs. 3 month term limit with re-election allowed. 3/5 General Populace Kick vote.

[00:50] <GreenLightGM> Kick vote limited to once per 2 weeks

[00:50] <Flora> ^ cuts down shit posting]

[00:50] <Spark_Chaser> Kick vote limit, Yea or Nay, everyone?

[00:50] <Spark_Chaser> Yay

[00:50] <Redlight> Sounds agreeable. I see no problems with it.

[00:50] <Flora> yea

[00:51] <Cherenkov> yay

[00:51] <CaptGreenHoof> yaaaaaaaaay

[00:51] <Spark_Chaser> Vote closing in 3...

[00:51] <Spark_Chaser> 2...

[00:51] <Spark_Chaser> 1...

[00:51] <Spark_Chaser> 6 For, 0 Against. Metacouncil of 5+2 appointed backs. 3 month term limit with re-election allowed. 3/5 General Populace Kick vote up to once every 2 weeks.

[00:51] <GreenSleeves> Yay

[00:51] <Grease_Lightning> huh?

[00:51] <Flora> [so close]

[00:52] <Spark_Chaser> Anything else we need to cover?

[00:52] <Flora> someone should make a lof

[00:52] <Flora> log

[00:52] <Spark_Chaser> Nomination procedure..... How should we go about nominating people?

[00:53] <GreenSleeves> volunteer

[00:53] <Flora> [the hard part]

[00:53] <Spark_Chaser> Because, campaigning will lead to infighting.

[00:53] <Redlight> just let people who want to run, run.

[00:53] <GreenLightGM> People get five votes

[00:53] <Cherenkov> Volunteer, and/or two nominations, depending on how many people want to

[00:54] <Hearth> Let's make a council to vote for the council.  Great idea, right? :D

[00:54] <GreenLightGM> Nominations *purely* volunteer

[00:54] <Spark_Chaser> I'm seeing a lot of people saying "Volunteer".

[00:54] <Rain_Drop> I would say do it volunteer then vote in folks with a pool

[00:54] <GreenLightGM> Since everyone gets 5 votes, should come out to a consensus agreement on who the best 5 [+1

[00:54] <GreenLightGM> are available

[00:54] <Flora> and you can only vote for one person once

[00:55] <Spark_Chaser> Agree.

[00:55] <Flora> cause you know some joker will vote for the smae person 5 times

[00:55] <Redlight> In short, the system we have in place now? Don't fix something that isn't broken.

[00:55] <Hearth> P'much

[00:55] <Cherenkov> works.

[00:55] <Spark_Chaser> So, nominations are by volunteer only, application goes in to current council before vote is taken?

[00:56] <Flora> current council?

[00:56] <Flora> are you talking about the 4C one

[00:56] <Spark_Chaser> In the case of the first vote, us.

[00:56] <Flora> yes im dunb for asking

[00:56] <Spark_Chaser> Later votes, Metacouncil is where you apply.

[00:56] <GreenSleeves> I'm still sort of sketch with the whole 'general election' thing for these seats. We want people from different 'circles' as it were.

[00:57] <GreenLightGM> >inb4 FC political parties

[00:57] <Flora> ^

[00:57] <Hearth> ...wat?  We party system now?

[00:57] <Spark_Chaser> I'd like that, Sleves, but how do we ensure that?

[00:57] <Flora> to sleeves

[00:57] <Rain_Drop> yeah I can see that happening -_-

[00:57] <GreenSleeves> No idea, Spark. That's the big problem.

[00:57]  * Redlight doesn't see it happening cuz we're all liberal horsefuckers.

[00:57] <GreenSleeves> [>liberal]

[00:57] <Flora> [No shit posts]

[00:57] <Spark_Chaser> While making sure all circles are represented, we do need to squash party politics before they happen.

[00:58] <Flora> [seriously dont]

[00:58] <Hearth> I get what you mean.  Would be a way to kinda 'spread' bias and have different representaion, but with the amount of active players I think 5 unbiased people would be good enough

[00:58] <Spark_Chaser> 5 people by general vote should allow for some representation by all circles. Should.

[00:59] <GreenLightGM> ^

[00:59]  * CaptGreenHoof pushes Bob and Hearth next to each other~

[00:59] <Redlight> finding 5 unbiased people is challenging enough so just leave it at that.

[00:59] <Hearth> HOOF PLSSSSSSSSSSSS

[00:59] <Flora> you need backs so the meta council can have adventures to

[00:59] <Able_Tome> [06:56:50] <GreenLightGM> >inb4 FC political parties

[00:59] <Able_Tome> >circle representives

[00:59] <Able_Tome> ... I've had a picture somewhere for this...

[00:59] <Rain_Drop> Im ok with the general vote of 5 votes being able to vote for one person only once

[00:59] <Spark_Chaser> Yes.

[01:00] <GreenSleeves> So, wait, are we just throwing everyone on a ballot and picking the top five?

[01:00] <Flora> that wont work

[01:00] <Hearth> Seems like it unless you got a better idea

[01:00] <Spark_Chaser> All volunteer nominees, I believe.

[01:00] <GreenSleeves> That's why I'm asking, Flora.

[01:00] <Spark_Chaser> We did not vote on that, though.

[01:00] <Redlight> wait..a council WITHIN a council? that's what we're talking about?

[01:00] <Spark_Chaser> Slow up, Red.

[01:00] <Cherenkov> no...

[01:00]  * CaptGreenHoof squishies GreenLightGM and Hearth together with a sly smirk on his face.

[01:01] <Flora> nope

[01:01]  * Able_Tome makes that 'why' jackie chan face

[01:01]  * Hearth is squish

[01:01] <Flora> [Hoof]

[01:01]  * GreenLightGM is squish

[01:01] <GreenSleeves> No, I mean, there is a difference between voting for each member one by one and voting for them all at once.

[01:01] <Spark_Chaser> It is a meta-council for the discussion of lore and quests.

[01:01] <Hearth> :3

[01:01] <Rain_Drop> Im ok with the general vote of 5 votes being able to vote for one person only once out of the volunteers

[01:01] <CaptGreenHoof> "Now kiss, you two!~"

[01:01] <Rain_Drop> there we go

[01:01] <CaptGreenHoof> "Make up!"

[01:01]  * Cherenkov plays with Hearth's hooves a bit. They're so squishy.

[01:01] <Spark_Chaser> Slow! Slow!

[01:02]  * Redlight backs up and slows down and wait for the next topic to pop up.

[01:02]  * Hearth can't kiss very well, for she is squish

[01:02] <Spark_Chaser> EVERYONE. OFF TOPIC ENDS.

[01:02] <Flora> [Shit posts please stop and focus on the task at hand]

[01:02] <Flora> [this shit is serious]

[01:02] <Able_Tome> How about: one list, all names, top five roll in. Easy come, easy go.

[01:02] <GreenLightGM> ^

[01:02] <GreenLightGM> Sixth/Seventh gets 1st/2nd alternate

[01:03] <Able_Tome> Don't see why we need to autism more than that.

[01:03] <Cherenkov> And if someone doesn't want to be nominated or not around?

[01:03] <Spark_Chaser> We had been discussing about how to create that list. The thought was Nomination by Volunteering. Yay or Nay?

[01:03] <Cherenkov> Just do volunteer in thread and make list from that.

[01:03] <Cherenkov> Yay.

[01:03] <Hearth> I think 5 votes for each might actually be too much depending on how big the list is

[01:03] <Able_Tome> Nay

[01:03] <Flora> idea

[01:04] <Cherenkov> save off number of votes until we see how many we get volunteering

[01:04] <Flora> it's probably been covered but it's 1 am for me so bear with me

[01:04] <Cherenkov> 1am here, too

[01:04] <Spark_Chaser> yo tambien.

[01:04] <GreenSleeves> Same

[01:04] <Hearth> Smame

[01:04] <Flora> but have everyone who wants a spot throws there hat in a ring and then votes on the people in it

[01:04] <Spark_Chaser> We're getting it done tonight, though. No more waiting.

[01:04] <Flora> [im tired]

[01:04] <Rain_Drop> Yay for me Sparky

[01:04] <Spark_Chaser> That was the nomination by volunteer.

[01:05] <Spark_Chaser> I'm for it.

[01:05] <Flora> i would be down for it

[01:05] <Able_Tome> So volunteers it is...

[01:05] <Spark_Chaser> 5 for, 1 against.

[01:05]  * GreenLightGM is a comfy 10~

[01:06]  * Able_Tome prepares a flak jacket because >non-universal representation

[01:06] <Spark_Chaser> We then have an election from the list of nominees. Seated Meta-council Members are nominated automatically if they desire.

[01:06] <Able_Tome> >inb4 political-style campaigns, slogans and 'why I'

[01:06] <Flora> [Able dont shit post]

[01:06] <Spark_Chaser> Instead, create alternatives.

[01:06] <Able_Tome> [I'm just saying that people need to keep political shit out of it.]

[01:07] <Spark_Chaser> Do you have an alternative to popular voting?

[01:07] <Redlight> [You can't control how ppl act, so just roll with it.]

[01:08] <Able_Tome> Alternative is universal from the list of constantly active participants.

[01:08] <Hearth> How about we forbid campaigning?

[01:08] <Flora> but what if we see people voting for people that are all in the same "circle"?

[01:08] <Able_Tome> If someone doesn't wants? The next one on the list gets the seat

[01:08] <Flora> but i guess that's what backs are for

[01:08] <Cherenkov> fine by me. simple vote, up or down. You don't see votes until they're final anyway.

[01:09] <Able_Tome> Forget the "circles". It's a cancer-tier mentlity.

[01:09] <Redlight> >no campaigns >i can see the "innercircle" riots/bitching already

[01:09] <Spark_Chaser> And we enforce by saying if we catch you campaigning, you lose nomination? That could lead to sticky "he-said-she-said" situations.

[01:09] <Able_Tome> [Red. Just stop.]

[01:09] <Flora> we could let them campaign

[01:10]  * Able_Tome is not sure why one would want to campaign...

[01:10] <Flora> i actually dont see a down side to it

[01:10] <Redlight> [I'm serious. Isn't that what's going to happen? Some will notice others getting power without a vote.]

[01:10] <Rain_Drop> Alright whats next?

[01:10] <Able_Tome> [>power >meta-council | there's your problem. It's not a fucking power struggle.]

[01:10] <Spark_Chaser> Okay, then Campaign allowed, Yea or Nay?

[01:10] <Cherenkov> Neigh.

[01:10] <Flora> [but yet my eyes are fucking up on me ( ._.)

[01:10] <Able_Tome> Nay

[01:11] <Spark_Chaser> Abstain.

[01:11] == Rain [[email protected]] has joined #fourcannon-plan

[01:11] <Flora> i might be a yay on this one

[01:11] <Spark_Chaser> Rain, voting if Campaigning is allowed.

[01:11] <Cherenkov> [rain, allow campaigning, yay or neigh?]

[01:11] <Redlight> [You know what they say, with great responsibility comes great power. Gonna rest my case now.]

[01:11] <Able_Tome> [*campaigning for meta-council]

[01:12] <Spark_Chaser> 1 for, 2 against, 1 abstain. Voting will close in 5...

[01:12] <GreenLightGM> Abstain

[01:12] <Spark_Chaser> 4... Tell me if you need me to stop.

[01:13] <Spark_Chaser> 3...

[01:13] <Able_Tome> [no, seriously, campaigning for 'meta-council'?! That's just..... why?]

[01:13] <Spark_Chaser> 2...

[01:13] <Spark_Chaser> 1...

[01:13] <Spark_Chaser> Campaigning is not allowed.

[01:13] == Rain_Drop [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 186 seconds]

[01:13] <Flora> [not many people on this one

[01:13] <Spark_Chaser> 1 for, 2 against, 2 abstain.

[01:14] <Spark_Chaser> It's a tricky subject.

[01:14] <Flora> so how would you go about it?

[01:14] <Redlight> [Is the existence of meta-council public? If so, tell them that it isn't something you want to be on. Damage control.]

[01:14] <Able_Tome> Any campaigning is just done for an 'ego' boost. Pls.

[01:14] <Hearth> No campaigning doesn't mean no open discussion though

[01:14] <Hearth> those not up for seats are free to discuss, yes?

[01:15] <Spark_Chaser> Yes,

[01:15] <Able_Tome> of course.

[01:15] <Spark_Chaser> As always.

[01:16] <Spark_Chaser> You can announce your candidacy, but nothing past that. Do not mention your opponents at all. Talking about your merits should be kept to a minimum.

[01:16] <Spark_Chaser> No posts about it after your anouncement.

[01:16] <Rain> campaoging?

[01:16] <Able_Tome> >talking about merits at all

[01:16]  * Able_Tome facepalms

[01:16] <Flora> so don't be a showey dick

[01:16] <Flora> ?

[01:16] <Rain> You mean vote Rain and such?

[01:16] <Hearth> Yup

[01:16] <Able_Tome> just a simple "I'm in" would work.

[01:17] <GreenLightGM> RAIN NO CAMP-NEIGH-ING

[01:17] <Rain> then yeah lets kep that out yeah?

[01:17] <Hearth> Vote for me because X, Y, and Z is not allowed

[01:17] <Cherenkov> agreed, Able.

[01:17] <Spark_Chaser> So, one could post. "Hey, Just so you know, I'm up for Meta-Council. That is all."

[01:17] <Redlight> Sounds reasonable.

[01:17] <Flora> ^to hearth

[01:17] <Able_Tome> Yeah, Spark.

[01:17] <Redlight> as long as no one asks, "wtf's metacouncil?"

[01:17] <Cherenkov> which would be described in thread. Hopefully.

[01:18] <Able_Tome> ^ in the same post

[01:18] <Flora> everything should be in thred

[01:18] <GreenSleeves> [Redlight, the point of the metacouncil is to be realllly public, even if what they end up discussing isn't. Suppose a GM wanted to get approval for some idea that needs to remain secret forwhatever reason, they talk to the metacouncil. If the idea that the GM implimented, now everyone knows exactly to blame once news gets out, because the metacouncil isn't secret.]

[01:19] <GreenSleeves> [If the idea that the GM implimented ws shit*]

[01:19] <Spark_Chaser> Metacouncil of 5+2 Appointed Backups. 3 Month limited term with re-election. 3/5 popular kick vote up to once every 2 weeks. Announcement of candidacy is allowed, but campaigning isn't.

[01:19] <Redlight> [-redacted 'witty' comment-]

[01:19] <Rain> Sounds like we are really coming along here

[01:19]  * Spark_Chaser nods happily.

[01:20]  * Flora smiles

[01:20]  * Hearth comes back here and people are getting along and getting shit done!? Pleasant surprise indeed

[01:20] <Spark_Chaser> Now, GreenLight brought up that he felt that the MetaCouncil should not be GMing during their term. Please, tell us why you feel that way, GL.

[01:21] <Able_Tome> Conflict of interest?

[01:21] <GreenLightGM> Well, because the GMs would be the ones *coming* to the council for advice

[01:21] <GreenLightGM> ^

[01:21] <Able_Tome> That's why you have backup positions?

[01:21] <Rain> mm good point

[01:21] <Flora> then they could let the back come up

[01:21] <GreenLightGM> Hmm

[01:21] <GreenLightGM> Well shoot, that sounds good

[01:21] <Hearth> I would think that if we have 2 backups, they could replace the GM if they were on the main council when discussing their stuff

[01:21] <Redlight> Is being a good GM = good metacouncilor or are the two not related?

[01:22] <GreenLightGM> Aight, I'm chill with that

[01:22] <Spark_Chaser> MC should be good GM.

[01:22] <Flora> "GM" is a vague term here

[01:22] <GreenSleeves> That /was/ the original idea, Light.

[01:22] <Spark_Chaser> Okay, everyone. MC members can't GM, yea or nay?

[01:22] <Spark_Chaser> Nay.

[01:22] <Flora> nay

[01:22] <Cherenkov> nay

[01:22] <Hearth> naw

[01:22] <Able_Tome> abstain

[01:22] <Redlight> If you want meta to hang up their pens and they're like the Lucyne's then hue, prepare for quality drop

[01:22] <GreenSleeves> Did you people even read the suggestion I made?

[01:23] <GreenSleeves> I mean, I addressed this.

[01:23] <Spark_Chaser> We understand, GS. We're just making sure it's agreed upon.

[01:23] <Cherenkov> we're getting enough of the groundwork in place now, GS.

[01:23] <GreenLightGM> Neigh

[01:23] <Spark_Chaser> Voting closes in 5

[01:23] <GreenLightGM> So long as they don't vote on issues relating to themselves

[01:23] <Rain> Nay council members should be able to gm if they so wish and allow for the back ups to com in and do their job to review

[01:24] <Spark_Chaser> 4

[01:24] <Spark_Chaser> 3

[01:24] <GreenSleeves> Nay.

[01:24] <Spark_Chaser> 2

[01:24] <Spark_Chaser> 1

[01:24] <Spark_Chaser> 0 Yes, 7 Nay, 1 Abstain.

[01:24] <Spark_Chaser> MC members can GM, as long as backups are brought in on the issue.

[01:25] <Flora> ^

[01:25] <Flora> yes

[01:25] <Flora> and preferably fill in for them

[01:25] <Spark_Chaser> Yes.

[01:25] <Able_Tome> Now question.

[01:25] <Spark_Chaser> Yes?

[01:25] <GreenLightGM> yes

[01:25] <Flora> shoot

[01:26] <Able_Tome> Should meta-council members be allowed to participate in events that they GMed?

[01:26] <Able_Tome> fuck

[01:26] <Able_Tome> *reviewed

[01:26] <GreenLightGM> Hmmm

[01:26] <Flora> hmm...

[01:26] <Able_Tome> Should meta-council members be allowed to participate in events that they reviewed?

[01:26] <Able_Tome> There

[01:26] <Flora> hmm...

[01:26] <Spark_Chaser> That's a good point.

[01:26] <GreenLightGM> Should be up to GM

[01:26] <GreenLightGM> 's discretion

[01:26] <GreenSleeves> ^

[01:26] <Flora> i would want to say with little involvment

[01:26] <Redlight> GM's discretion, they'll most likely reject them.

[01:26] <Able_Tome> quota?

[01:27] <Able_Tome> OK

[01:27] <Cherenkov> GM's discretion. They should be able to keep IC and OoC knowledge separate.

[01:27] <GreenSleeves> Generally speaking, hopefully they wouldn't, but I wouldn't force this one as an official rule.

[01:27] <Able_Tome> GMd discretion

[01:27] <GreenLightGM> Because while metacouncil *should* not meta, if  a GM wants their adventurers to be 100% surprised let em

[01:27] <Rain> Agreed

[01:27] <Cherenkov> otherwise those on the council can never go on adventures even when it might make sense for them to do so IC.

[01:28] <Redlight> any GM who let's the meta participates revoke's the Meta's scapegoat status if anything goes wrong and players complain

[01:28] <Able_Tome> backups?

[01:28] <GreenLightGM> ^

[01:28] <GreenLightGM> Councilmen may bring in a backup if they wish to participate

[01:28] <GreenSleeves> Exactly.

[01:28] <Able_Tome> A premise is given and a metacouciler can bring a backup

[01:28] <Flora> ^ Light

[01:28] <GreenSleeves> ^Able.

[01:28] <Spark_Chaser> I like this.

[01:29] <Able_Tome> Question, what if -backup- wants to participate too?

[01:29] <Cherenkov> I see this might become an issue if a town wide event is planned.

[01:29] <Redlight> >inb4 there are so many backups that all the players are metacouncil

[01:29] <Able_Tome> ^

[01:29] <Able_Tome> to Cher

[01:29] <GreenLightGM> Then they rock-paper-scissors

[01:29] <GreenLightGM> just kidding

[01:29] <GreenSleeves> Hue, Able. That's why I didn't want official backups, but rather on an as-needed basis.

[01:29] <Spark_Chaser> Town-wide events would need multiple GMs. MC can help.

[01:29] <Flora> hench why 2 backups

[01:29] <Able_Tome> Yeah... Sleeves has a point

[01:30] <GreenLightGM> Town-wide events, GM SHOULD be fine with letting metacouncil go on

[01:30] <Rain> If the back ups want in on it I would say that they need to ok with the Gm in question

[01:30] <Able_Tome> Ech, both variants work.

[01:31] <Able_Tome> It may/will still shitposting on >why metacouncil member is taking muh seat1!111!!1!

[01:31] <Able_Tome> Meh

[01:31] <Redlight> So. Anything else to discuss?

[01:31] <GreenLightGM> What

[01:32] <Spark_Chaser> Vote, GM discretion for MC joining an event. Yea or Nay?

[01:32] <Able_Tome> Yea

[01:32] <Spark_Chaser> Yay

[01:32] <Rain> yay

[01:32] <Cherenkov> yaeay

[01:32] <Hearth> Yea

[01:32] <Flora> yea  everyone should be able to play

[01:32] <GreenLightGM> Yea

[01:33] <Spark_Chaser> Vote closing in 5

[01:33] <Spark_Chaser> 4

[01:33] <Redlight> 321

[01:33] <Spark_Chaser> 3

[01:33] <Spark_Chaser> 2

[01:33] <Spark_Chaser> 1

[01:33] <GreenSleeves> yay

[01:33] <GreenLightGM> 0

[01:33] <Spark_Chaser> The yea's have it.

[01:34] <Spark_Chaser> Metacouncil of 5+2 Appointed Backups. 3 Month limited term with re-election. 3/5 popular kick vote up to once every 2 weeks. Announcement of candidacy is allowed, but campaigning isn't. MC members can GM, as long as backups replace them on the vote for that issue. MC members can join an event at a GM's discretion.

[01:34] <Able_Tome> Any in-council discussion shitposting regulations?

[01:35] <Redlight> [>trying to regulate shitposting >/mlp]

[01:35] <Flora> you shouldn't shit on your coworkers

[01:35] <Spark_Chaser> True. We don't need internet fillibustering.

[01:35] <Cherenkov> post with trips when discusssing metacouncil shit on thread. only request I have.

[01:35] <Spark_Chaser> How do we regulate it? It took us a while to wrangle it here.

[01:35] <Rain> er not really sure how to do that

[01:35] <Spark_Chaser> Agree, Chere

[01:36] <Rain> Well that could work Chere

[01:36] <Able_Tome> If the submission is reviewed, any persoanl shit or derailing needs to be toned down. And what Cher said.

[01:36] <Rain> Also if your gonna just chit post as anon and fuck about fine and dandy but dont expect us to really pay attention to i

[01:36] <Flora> everything is under review and no biting others in the ass

[01:36] <Able_Tome> >you join the club, you become a tripfag (hue)

[01:36] <GreenLightGM> Yup.  Outside of FC I post as anon, but in FC I post with my trip.

[01:37] <Spark_Chaser> Trip Required, Yea or nay?

[01:37] <Spark_Chaser> Yea

[01:37] <GreenSleeves> Yeaha

[01:37] <Redlight> >tripfagging *really hopes this doesn't need to happen*

[01:37] <Flora> yea

[01:37] <Cherenkov> yay

[01:37] <GreenLightGM> Yea

[01:37] <Rain> yay

[01:37] <Able_Tome> Better safe than sorry - yes

[01:37] <Spark_Chaser> Vote ending in 5

[01:37] <GreenLightGM> As much as I love Cherenanon, hue

[01:37] <Spark_Chaser> 4

[01:37] <Spark_Chaser> 3

[01:38] <Spark_Chaser> 2

[01:38]  * Redlight NOPES internally.

[01:38] <Spark_Chaser> 1

[01:38] <Spark_Chaser> 7 for, 1 against.

[01:38]  * Cherenkov doesn't care if you post without in other things, just when discusing mc in thread.

[01:38] <Spark_Chaser> Metacouncil of 5+2 Appointed Backups. 3 Month limited term with re-election. 3/5 popular kick vote up to once every 2 weeks. Announcement of candidacy is allowed, but campaigning isn't. MC members can GM, as long as backups replace them on the vote for that issue. MC members can join an event at a GM's discretion. Thread discussion about MC requires secure Trips.

[01:38] <GreenLightGM> *Excited honking intensifies*

[01:39] <Spark_Chaser> Trips logged in the MC Google Doc?

[01:39] <Redlight> then keep tripfag posts low in the thread. we don't want to look like ponychan]

[01:39] <Able_Tome> Yeap.

[01:39] <Hearth> caring/10

[01:39] <Redlight> evven though we probably are at this point]

[01:39] <Able_Tome> >even asking that question

[01:39] <CaptGreenHoof> Redlight pls. You tripfag as Enderborn.

[01:39] <Able_Tome> Where do you think you are, shitposter?

[01:39] <Spark_Chaser> Off topic discussion.

[01:40] <CaptGreenHoof> Speaking of which, pls bring Enderborn back.

[01:40] <Able_Tome> [07:38:49] <Spark_Chaser> Trips logged in the MC Google Doc?

[01:40] <GreenLightGM> ^

[01:40] <Spark_Chaser> Yea

[01:40] <Able_Tome> Yeap.

[01:40] <Rain> Registration on the doc would be good in m opino

[01:40] <Redlight> Sadly, I'm not Enderborn but do believe what you like.

[01:40] <GreenSleeves> Si

[01:41] <Spark_Chaser> Voting closed in 5

[01:41] <Spark_Chaser> 4

[01:41] <Spark_Chaser> 3

[01:41] <Spark_Chaser> 2

[01:41] <Spark_Chaser> 1

[01:41] <Spark_Chaser> Metacouncil of 5+2 Appointed Backups. 3 Month limited term with re-election. 3/5 popular kick vote up to once every 2 weeks. Announcement of candidacy is allowed, but campaigning isn't. MC members can GM, as long as backups replace them on the vote for that issue. MC members can join an event at a GM's discretion. Thread discussion about MC requires secure Trips, which are logged in a document.

[01:42] <Spark_Chaser> Now, to the issue of off topic discussion during MC meeting on IRC.

[01:42] <GreenLightGM> I'd say lurkers should be muted, but allowed to watch

[01:42] <Rain> ^

[01:42] <GreenLightGM> If they desire

[01:42] <Able_Tome> >lurkers

[01:42] <Able_Tome> hmm...

[01:42] <Hearth> Isn't the point that things can be kept secret if needed?

[01:42] <Redlight> Why have lurkers at all?

[01:42] <Able_Tome> What if GM doesn't wants the material to leak?

[01:43] <Able_Tome> What Hearth said.

[01:43] <GreenSleeves> What Hearth said,

[01:43] <GreenLightGM> ...hmm

[01:43] <GreenLightGM> Good point

[01:43] <Spark_Chaser> But what about MC members who choose to use OT to spam and keep relevant discussion surpressed?

[01:43] <Redlight> Fire them

[01:43] <GreenLightGM> Then they get kicked, simple

[01:43] <Hearth> I would think that be internally controlled

[01:43] <GreenLightGM> They have one job

[01:43] <Hearth> yeah, or kicked by an OP

[01:44] <Spark_Chaser> Internally handled, Yea or Nay?

[01:44] <Able_Tome> Muted/kicked. Problem is, OP can too into shitposting.

[01:44] <Redlight> >not trusting OP]

[01:44] <Hearth> Give everyone OP privliges

[01:44] <GreenLightGM> ^

[01:44] <Spark_Chaser> ^

[01:44] <Hearth> Everyone can kick everyone

[01:44] <GreenSleeves> Invite only channel for things that need to be discussed in secret, muted lurkers in the public one.

[01:45] <GreenLightGM> ^^^

[01:45] <Flora>  [material isn't supposed to be leaked]

[01:45] <GreenLightGM> Oooh

[01:45] <GreenLightGM> oooh

[01:45] <Hearth> Yes?

[01:45] <GreenLightGM> Maybe.. GM discretion can be applied to lurkers too

[01:45] <CaptGreenHoof> I don't think there should be invite only channel.

[01:45] <GreenLightGM> GM: "ANYONE WHO'S HERE FOR THE DISCUSSION CAN'T INTO ADVENTURE"

[01:45] <Redlight> Sounds like a good compromise. GM discretion sounds good. Having options is a good thing.

[01:45] <GreenLightGM> *Five minutes later, discussion

[01:46] <Hearth> Sure, public channel and private one.   GM gets to choose which one they want

[01:46] <GreenLightGM> Thus, metacouncil can STILL be open to public, at public's warning

[01:46] <Spark_Chaser> So... "Hey, I don't want this getting out, can we go to the secret room?"

[01:46] <GreenLightGM> No private...

[01:46] <GreenLightGM> Urk, that's still...

[01:46] <Flora> but what of players blabbing to each other?

[01:46] <Flora> i like open channel with warning but still

[01:46] <Redlight> Public channel is dandy and auxillary but private ones are beter.

[01:47] <Spark_Chaser> ^

[01:47] <Hearth> If the GM doesn't want people blabbing, then they should request it be done in private

[01:47] <GreenLightGM> Yah, sure, sounds good

[01:47] <Able_Tome> Scenario: lurker/anon starts to create an artificial shitstorm about meta-council decisions, because >muh lore.

[01:47] <Rain> Sounds like ti would work out that way to me Herath

[01:47] <Hearth> But I'm having trouble seeing where a public one is better than a private one

[01:47] <Redlight> Blame GM/MC for using the public chat then

[01:47] <Spark_Chaser> Keeping as much above board as possible.

[01:48] == City_Planner_Mare [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 194 seconds]

[01:48] <Redlight> You're dealing with ignorant, emotional players (like me). consider yourself, warned

[01:49] <Spark_Chaser> Public General MC Channel with Private Sensitive Channel. Yea or nay?

[01:49] <Able_Tome> That's core of the scenario. Should MC act like carpet muchers for every shitposter, or...?

[01:49] <Able_Tome> Yea

[01:49] <GreenSleeves> Yay

[01:49] <Hearth> Well, isn't public lore discussion supposed to be done on board anyway?

[01:49] == Nova_Flux [[email protected]] has joined #fourcannon-plan

[01:49] <Flora> wait

[01:49] <Cherenkov> yes, hearth, even though it doesn't always do so.

[01:49] <Spark_Chaser> Waiting.

[01:49] <GreenSleeves> If its something big like that, Hearth, the council can always request it be in the public channel regardless.

[01:50] <Redlight> I vote in favor for both options to be on the table.

[01:50] <GreenLightGM> yea

[01:50] <Flora> yes and MCs can come up with stuff and see if players would want it but PCs should take a active role in trying to further lore

[01:50] <Nova_Flux> [woah i see some voting. I think my laptop freezing was a sign i should be reading into this more

[01:50] <Rain> ^ to flora

[01:50] <Able_Tome> Hmm... both work.

[01:50] <Redlight> Can you trust PCs not to shitpost if they disagree on every little thing?]

[01:51] <Rain> lets do both and have encouragment of the PCs lore and head cannons within reason

[01:51] <Flora> ^Rain yes yes oh God YES!!!!!

[01:51] <Spark_Chaser> Yes.

[01:51] <Able_Tome> How about > PC brings head canons to MC

[01:51] <Spark_Chaser> Ding

[01:51] <Spark_Chaser> That's the point of the council.

[01:52] <Flora> key words are with in reason

[01:52] <Flora> within

[01:52] <Flora> reason

[01:52] <Spark_Chaser> So, Back to that vote.

[01:52] <Spark_Chaser> Two channels, yay or nay?

[01:52] <Spark_Chaser> Yay

[01:52] <Able_Tome> Yay

[01:52] <Flora> private and public

[01:52] <Hearth> Yay

[01:52] <Rain> yay

[01:53] <Nova_Flux> Yay.

[01:53] <Redlight> Private as in, it's made only if needed? (Just making sure)

[01:53] <Cherenkov> yay.

[01:53] <Nova_Flux> [im catching up]

[01:53] <Spark_Chaser> Used if needed. Not the go-to.

[01:53] <Able_Tome> random rooms

[01:53] <Spark_Chaser> Voting closes in 5

[01:53] <GreenSleeves> yay

[01:53] <Spark_Chaser> 4

[01:53] <Spark_Chaser> 3

[01:54] <Redlight> >random rooms. It has my approval

[01:54] <Spark_Chaser> Eh? Random rooms? Did I miss something?

[01:54] <Able_Tome> Private room is created on fly if needed

[01:54] <Spark_Chaser> Okay.

[01:54] <Spark_Chaser> Voting is closed

[01:55] <Spark_Chaser> The yay's have it.

[01:55] <Spark_Chaser> Metacouncil of 5+2 Appointed Backups. 3 Month limited term with re-election. 3/5 popular kick vote up to once every 2 weeks. Announcement of candidacy is allowed, but campaigning isn't. MC members can GM, as long as backups replace them on the vote for that issue. MC members can join an event at a GM's discretion. Thread discussion about MC requires secure Trips. General MC channel with muted lurkers, private rooms created as needed for discussion of sensitive topics.

[01:55] <Spark_Chaser> Did that cut off at all?

[01:55] <Able_Tome> >discussi-

[01:55] <Cherenkov> aff

[01:55] <GreenSleeves> [It's 2 in the morning...]

[01:56] <Spark_Chaser> I think that's enough.

[01:56] <Hearth> I think we should bring upo meta council meeting time.  Since it's 5 different people, they're bound not to all be on at the same time.  So I propose have a weekly meeting time, but GM's can request a meeting if they want to discuss things in between said weekly meetings

[01:57] <Hearth> But yeah...2 in the morning :

[01:57] <Able_Tome> Not sure if scheduled time is needed

[01:57] <GreenSleeves> ^

[01:57] <GreenLightGM> ^

[01:57] <Able_Tome> Scheduled when the issue arrises

[01:57] <Spark_Chaser> The great thing is, we could use a google doc. You put in an issue to be voted on, you get the votes.

[01:57] <GreenLightGM> Time available is a factor in my vote

[01:57] <Redlight> Why do meta need weekly meetings? They're not IC.

[01:57] <Able_Tome> ^

[01:57] <GreenSleeves> ^

[01:57] <Cherenkov> scheduled when arrised

[01:57] <Rain> ^

[01:57] <Rain> to chere

[01:58] <Rain> if it comes up then lets everyone know baout

[01:58] <Rain> it

[01:58] <Flora> i think a meet time would be a good idea it dosen't need to be long at the least 20 minutes

[01:58] <Hearth> Okay, I just think it could be nice to have a designated time that people know for sure they can bring up lore ideas instead of trying to get 5 people on at the same time

[01:58] <Flora> once a week

[01:58] <Hearth> I mean, people have external lives to this

[01:58] <Able_Tome> Reason for that, Flora?

[01:59] <Able_Tome> Hm

[01:59] <Spark_Chaser> That's why I advise the doc, hearth. You bring it up to one, they put it on the doc and call a meeting, voting in abstentia can be done by the doc.

[01:59] <GreenLightGM> ^

[01:59] <Hearth> Okay, so there

[01:59] <Able_Tome> Or it can be: GM/PC discusses something with one council member

[01:59] <Redlight> if meetings are a must then I'd rather have them happen every 2 weeks instead of weekly. odds are they'll just fuck around since I don't see much being discussed. relevant discussions though will be full of ***ism]

[01:59] <Hearth> 's going to be an MC doc?>

[01:59] <Flora> they can say 'het whats up did you know sos ans so are doing a thing'

[02:00] <Able_Tome> Or several when they are available

[02:00] <Able_Tome> and that meta-council member brings the topic to others

[02:00] <Spark_Chaser> yes.

[02:00] <GreenSleeves> That's more true to how I envisioned it.

[02:01] <Spark_Chaser> If the topic requires the originator there to discuss, they get asked to join the general, where they could also ask for the private.

[02:01] <Hearth> Oki, and the council can call a meeting if they feel it needs some discussion, otherwise they can just say yay or nay as a whole

[02:01] <Able_Tome> yeap

[02:01] <Spark_Chaser> Yup.

[02:01] <Flora> but give reasons why

[02:01] <Flora> for yay/nay i mean

[02:01] <GreenLightGM> OOH

[02:02] <Spark_Chaser> Would be good. That way a GM could get feedback if they got denied.

[02:02] <Able_Tome> ^

[02:02] <Spark_Chaser> Then they can fix it and come back.

[02:02] <GreenLightGM> Pls, make it mandatory if a MC votes neigh on a thingy, they give a good reason why besides 'lel it's shit;

[02:02] <GreenLightGM> ...Thx Sparky/Able

[02:02] <Hearth> So, MC doc with propositions, the decision, and the reason?

[02:03] <Hearth> Also, I think rulings on the council should be made unanimously, yes?

[02:03] <Rain> one thing at a time Hearth

[02:03] <Hearth> Okay

[02:03] <Flora> yes to anonmoose

[02:03] <Redlight> 6 over 1 not good enough for ya Hurf?

[02:03] <Hearth> 4 over 1*

[02:03] <Rain> For the feed back thing on yay and nay on the rulings seem like a good idea to me what do you think Sparky>?

[02:04] <Spark_Chaser> GMs bring the idea to one MC, who brings it before the council. Nay votes require reasons. Yea or Nay?

[02:04] <Spark_Chaser> Yay!

[02:04] <GreenLightGM> Yea

[02:04] <Able_Tome> Very yay

[02:04] <Flora> yea

[02:04] <Hearth> yay

[02:04] <Redlight> Define idea.

[02:04] <Rain> Yay

[02:04] <Flora> [...]

[02:04] <GreenLightGM> And 3/5 is needed for a 'yea' to a MC vote amongst themselves?

[02:04] <Spark_Chaser> Event, quest or headcannon

[02:05] <Redlight> We don't want to have GMs put too much workload on the MCs

[02:05] <Rain> i would say the 3/5 works for me Greanbean

[02:06] <Spark_Chaser> Voting closing in 5

[02:06] <Spark_Chaser> 4

[02:06] <Hearth> I'd like it to be unanimous, but I'd settle for 4/5 needed

[02:06] <Spark_Chaser> 3

[02:06] <Spark_Chaser> 2

[02:06] <Spark_Chaser> 1

[02:06] <Cherenkov> 3/5 is fine

[02:07] <Hearth> If the council is supposed to be a representation of the people, 40% of the people disagreeing with something is fine?

[02:07] <Redlight> 3/5 vote for election & 3/5 vote for GM idea

[02:07] <Hearth> 2 of 5 is pretty close to half of the people

[02:07] <Spark_Chaser> GM's can bring it to one MC, it gets shared, Nay votes require reasons. Alright, NOW, we go on to amount required for acceptance, 3/5?

[02:07] <GreenSleeves> 4/5

[02:08] <Flora> MC rules should be over thrown if general population thinks so

[02:08] <GreenLightGM> Abstain

[02:08] <Rain> I agree with Flora

[02:08] <Redlight> I'd bring up "what happens if the no votes bring up a good reason" but I"m sure that'll work itself out]

[02:08] <Cherenkov> agree, flora.

[02:09] <Rain> Also I am ok with 4/5 better then getting 5/5 all the time

[02:09] <Flora> if everyone wants something it should happen through logiacl events leading up to it

[02:09] <Spark_Chaser> Then they can re-vote, Red.

[02:09] <Spark_Chaser> I have 2 for 4/5, 1 abstain.

[02:09] <Hearth> But honestly, I think the voting thing would be if they feel discussion isn't needed on the topic.

[02:10] <GreenSleeves> ^

[02:10] <Hearth> Like, if it's something small, otherwise it should really be thoroughly discussed and come to a consensus

[02:10] <Spark_Chaser> I vote... 4/5.

[02:10] <Redlight> 5-4-3-2-1

[02:10] <Able_Tome> Abstain

[02:10] <Cherenkov> 4/5ths of votes on thread? sorry, getting tired.

[02:10] <Spark_Chaser> In Council.

[02:10] <Rain> of the Meta council yeah

[02:11] <Hearth> No, 4 out of 5 council members are needed to pass something

[02:11] <Flora> 3/5 for me

[02:11] <Cherenkov> would say 3/5ths

[02:11] <Spark_Chaser> Okay, 3 for 4/5, 2 for 3/5, 2 abstain.

[02:11] <Hearth> Can we discuss this some more?  Why 3/5 opposed to 4/5

[02:11] <Spark_Chaser> Lets.

[02:11] <Redlight> eh, dissenters will usually just yield to the majority party if they deem the issue too small to argue over

[02:12] <Hearth> >dissenters

[02:12] <Hearth> Redlight pls

[02:12] <Able_Tome> ^

[02:12] <Flora> you probably in most cases get 4/5 sonsensus

[02:12] <Redlight> I'm okay with 4/5.

[02:12] <Flora> oh shit

[02:12]  * GreenSleeves needs sleep.

[02:12] <Flora> i meant wont get 4/5 consensus

[02:13] <Hearth> I honestly think getting a majority shouldn;t be a problem.  I mean, the idea is to get reasonable people on the council

[02:13] <Flora> im tired

[02:13] <Cherenkov> yeah, tired, too.

[02:13] <Redlight> go2bed

[02:13] <Hearth> You think that people will be that torn on something all the time?  I mean, we're not talking about just general players, but the ones we feel are fit to discuss and make decisions on these things

[02:14] <Flora> To be honest I kinda do

[02:15] <Redlight> you're pretty optimistic about reasonable people in a 4ch board about colorful ponies. competant is what we'll be lucky to get

[02:15] <Flora> call me a pessimist

[02:15] <Rain> Now to be fair 3/5 is usually used when you have people that are going to argue alot but considering it is going to be about folks who we elect are going to do right by us 4/5 aint half bad

[02:15] <Hearth> What I'm getting at is I don't want things to just get dismissed because 3 out of 5 (60%) of the council just says 'yeah, sure, that's fine'

[02:16] <Hearth> I want it to be sure that this is something that is agreed upon

[02:16] <Spark_Chaser> Point.

[02:16] <Flora> i see the point

[02:16] <Hearth> the point is that the bickering and discussion gets done within the council as to prevent shit storms outside of it

[02:16] <Spark_Chaser> BTW... http://pastebin.com/v1NRjsF7

[02:16] <Hearth> the point isn't to get things passed as frequently as you can

[02:17] <Hearth> if something really isn't 100% agreed upon as good, then it WILL cause conflict with people outside the council should it pass

[02:17] <Flora> Spark can you paste the whole thing?

[02:17] <Redlight> point taken. but don't expect perfection and there has to be some leeway for 'efficient' desicion-making since I'm pretty sure ppl have lives over this

[02:17] <Cherenkov> take a look at some of the stuff that's happend. Most of the time we can't get 80% of people agreed upon.

[02:17] <Flora> ok ok idea

[02:17] <Spark_Chaser> That's the summary, I'll add the log before I leave.

[02:17] <Flora> why not both

[02:17] <Hearth> That;s the thing %80 of the players =/= 80% of the meta council

[02:18] <Redlight> at least, I hope we have lives that aren't pony-related

[02:18] <Rain> what do you mean Flora?

[02:18] <Hearth> Members of the MC should be the more reasonable players, yes?

[02:18] <GreenLightGM> Harf brings up a valid point, if 5 people are voting, then 4 should be the goto member

[02:18] <Flora> i mean you get stil majority rule but it can vary

[02:18] <Spark_Chaser> By what?

[02:19] <Rain> True sis very true

[02:19] <Rain> kinda why i was ok with the 4/5 thing

[02:19]  * GreenLightGM votes for 4/5

[02:19] <Hearth> Like, if 2 people have reasons against something, they should not be able to just be overruled by the 3 others.  If it was 1 person speaking up against it and the others felt it was fine...then I think it's a little more reasonable to overrule that person, but I still should think if it's not a 100% vote, it should be discussed

[02:19] <Rain> as you can tell so far we have only had 1 or two people not happy with the decsion the majority of us felt was ok

[02:20]  * Flora votes for both

[02:20] <GreenLightGM> And hear me out. 4/5 works... because a person can submit an idea once a week

[02:20] <Spark_Chaser> 4/5 + Discussion, yea or nay?

[02:20]  * Flora is tired and should sleep soon

[02:20] <Rain> So how bout this 4/5 majority  vote with the 5th member bringing in PCs to get their opinon?

[02:20] <GreenLightGM> Can be same one if revised based on MC's reasons

[02:20] <Rain> yay

[02:20] <GreenLightGM> Yea

[02:20] <Spark_Chaser> yea

[02:20] <Cherenkov> wait. only submitting one idea once per week? So limiting GM quests to once per week?

[02:20] <Redlight> [2advanced4me. gonna ride this one out]

[02:21] <Hearth> 4/5

[02:21] <GreenLightGM> Nonono

[02:21] <Rain> er no i dont think we were doing that Chere

[02:21] <GreenLightGM> *Same idea

[02:21] <GreenLightGM> Sorry

[02:21] <Able_Tome> Discussion will happen one way or another... grindlocked discussions at 3/5 can be submitted for others to hear out, unless it is secret

[02:21] <Rain> still talking about the majority roll thing I tihkn

[02:21] <Flora> multilple people can submit stuff

[02:21] <Flora> ideas

[02:21] <Flora> just not the same one twice

[02:21] <Cherenkov> 3/5ths I'm going to have to stay on that one. Secert needs at 4/5ths

[02:21] <Able_Tome> 4/5 should be enough for a vote.

[02:21] <GreenLightGM> If an idea is rejected, GM has a week to revise it at minimum before putting it up for a vote again

[02:21] <Spark_Chaser> voting ends in 5

[02:22] <Spark_Chaser> 4

[02:22] <Spark_Chaser> 3

[02:22] <Spark_Chaser> 2

[02:22] <Spark_Chaser> 1

[02:22] <Rain> that sounds fair Greanlight nexxt issue then we can all call it a night

[02:22] <Able_Tome> n-n-y-abstain

[02:22] <Spark_Chaser> 3 for 4/5, 1 for 3/5, 1 for abstain

[02:22] <Hearth> I think that's just common sense.  Sending in the same idea over and over again isn't going to get anywhere

[02:23] <Spark_Chaser> So, it's 4/5.

[02:23] <Flora> i guess

[02:23] == Boris[Ronin] has changed nick to Boris[Dead]

[02:23] <Spark_Chaser> 1 week revision minimum. Yea or nay?

[02:23] <Spark_Chaser> Yea

[02:23] <Cherenkov> yay

[02:23] <Rain> yay

[02:23] <Flora> yea

[02:23] <Able_Tome> Nay

[02:23] <Hearth> Nay

[02:23] <Rain> reasons

[02:23] <Rain> ?

[02:24] <Able_Tome> Decision can be made faster.

[02:24] <Hearth> I don't think there's need for a minimum, because if a person feels like they made some major changes, let them discuss it again

[02:24] <Rain> I thought giving the GM some time to tweak their idea was ok?

[02:24] <Able_Tome> If there are any 'new' additions, it will still go through MC

[02:24] <Hearth> Like I put in this idea, they say no, then ALL next day I work on it, I think I have the right to bring it up again because I put a lot of time into it

[02:24] <Able_Tome> ^ to Hearth

[02:25] <Rain> hm...alright then that makes sense to me if the major changes occur the next day

[02:25] <Spark_Chaser> So, if I'm to understand you, you feel that a minimum wait time would hinder their ability to make quick revisions that could fix their idea.

[02:25] <Rain> so nay for me thebn they dont need to work on it for a week to get the idea posted

[02:25] <Cherenkov> I don't see many people abusing multiple submissions too much. Or bringing things to submission at all. I change my vote to nay so metacouncil can have things to do.

[02:25] <Hearth> A minimum only slows down the process, what benefits does a minimum provide?

[02:25] <Flora> just dont spam the MCs

[02:25] <Spark_Chaser> Okay, vote starting again.

[02:25] <Hearth> Of course, the council would just ignore spammers, simple

[02:25] <Spark_Chaser> ^

[02:25]  * Cherenkov wonders who the Jorgie submitter will be.

[02:26] == ISpaih [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Leaving]

[02:26] <Able_Tome> Hue

[02:26] <Hearth> We're talking about people here, not robots

[02:26] <GreenLightGM> Sounds good, Harf.  Meant to cut down on spammers, but MC should know

[02:26] <Spark_Chaser> I vote Nay.

[02:26] <Hearth> nay

[02:26] <Cherenkov> 1 day minimum would be good. I vote nay.

[02:26] <Able_Tome> Nay stands

[02:26] <Flora> just put post within reason

[02:26] <Flora> not a set amount but not too much

[02:26]  * Nova_Flux trust people in here to vote on something

[02:27] <Spark_Chaser> Voting closes in 5. Noted Flora.

[02:27] <Nova_Flux> Sorry couldn't provide much input. Have been in and out.

[02:27] <Spark_Chaser> 4

[02:27] <Spark_Chaser> 3

[02:27] <Spark_Chaser> 2

[02:27] <Flora> [i dont know the ballot anymore]

[02:27] <Spark_Chaser> Eh?

[02:27] <Able_Tome> [Should 1 week revision minimum should be enforced or not. That's the vote.]

[02:27] <Flora> [ah]

[02:28] <Spark_Chaser> Voting for or against minimum revision time, 4 against.

[02:28] <Able_Tome> [>should should | /me is getting sleeping]

[02:28] <GreenLightGM> neigh

[02:28] <Able_Tome> [>sleeping | ...]

[02:28] <Spark_Chaser> 3

[02:28] <GreenLightGM> hue

[02:28] <Spark_Chaser> 2

[02:28] <Spark_Chaser> 1

[02:28] <Flora> yea as long as you post within reason

[02:29] <Spark_Chaser> Nays have it. No minimum revision time, but exercise reason. Council has the right to enforce a minimum if they choose for a particular issue.

[02:29] <Rain> Alright i think we can post it on thread then for discussionand volunteers then?

[02:29] <Spark_Chaser> Formatting now.

[02:29] <Rain> as everyone here needs ther sleep i think

[02:29] <Cherenkov> jep sleep is good

[02:29] <Rain> also Spark

[02:29] <Hearth> Yes...I can't keep staying up 'til 3 in the morning -_-

[02:29] <Able_Tome> Anything else?

[02:30] <Rain> dude thanks

[02:30] <Flora> sleep

[02:30] <Spark_Chaser> No prob. Gotta sleep myself.

[02:30] <Rain> serisosly for acting as recorder and arranging this shit into something cohesive...Ohshit

[02:30] <Cherenkov> Hearth is sleeping for two. Hue.

[02:30] <Rain> ohshit

[02:30] <Rain> I just realized something!

[02:30] <Rain> Also that ueas

[02:30] <Hearth> Cheren pls

[02:30] <Spark_Chaser> Yeah?

[02:30] <Rain> but Spark and Ikea I know who they are!

[02:30] <Spark_Chaser> What.

[02:30] <Rain> Thomas Eddisons!

[02:30] <Spark_Chaser> Lol

[02:31] <Cherenkov> Thomas Eddison English Muffins...

[02:31] <Rain> The guy who wrote down all this shit into a constitutiion while all the old white dudes talked and talked and argued those guys are aweseom as they make sure to copy this shit down and make legible

[02:31] <Cherenkov> i have no idea where i am going with this

[02:31] <Cherenkov> ...

[02:31] <Rain> your hungry?

[02:31] <Liven> So what are we talking about now?

[02:31] <Cherenkov> that's not thomas eddison, rain.

[02:32] <Rain> er

[02:32] <Cherenkov> Think you might mean Ben Franlkin?

[02:32] <Rain> was it Madison?

[02:32] <Able_Tome> Hue

[02:32] <Cherenkov> or Madison

[02:32] <Cherenkov> tired

[02:32] <Rain> no no the guy who penned the thing

[02:32] <Flora> it's all ogre Liven

[02:32] <Able_Tome> This is getting silly,

[02:32] <Cherenkov> Eddison came up with IC.

[02:32] <Cherenkov> AC

[02:32] <Cherenkov> fug

[02:32] <Able_Tome> >IC

[02:32] <Able_Tome> ahahaha

[02:32] <GreenLightGM> Abdolf Hitcoln wrote the Prostitution of the United States of America

[02:33]  * Able_Tome 'd want to read that

[02:33] <Rain> kek

[02:34] <GreenSleeves> > The guy who wrote down all this shit into a constitutiion while all the old white dudes talked and talked and argued those guys are aweseom as they make sure to copy this shit down and make legible

[02:34] <GreenSleeves> JOHN HANCOCK

[02:34] <Rain> hue

[02:34] <Flora> so were done here right?

[02:34]  * Cherenkov is tired. I'll john your hand cock.

[02:35] <Able_Tome> waitin' for post

[02:35] <Cherenkov> think so

[02:35] <GreenSleeves> Wait no/

[02:35]  * GreenSleeves is wrong.

[02:35] <GreenSleeves> Wasn't hancoc.

[02:35]  * GreenSleeves dies, it's 2:30 I need sleep.

[02:36] <Rain> Think so too Flora

[02:36] == GreenSleeves [[email protected]] has quit [Quit: Cherenkov is mai waifu]

[02:37] == Cherenkov has changed nick to Cheren-sleep

[02:37] <Flora> [but welcome aboard yellow guy dont trust the bar tender]

[02:37] <Cheren-sleep> night

[02:38] <Flora> oh and thanks Spark for the paste biin

[02:38] <Rain> night ponies

[02:38] <Rain> may luna watch your dreams and protect you from nightmares

[02:38] <Spark_Chaser> That's what I have friends for.

[02:39] <Redlight> i wonder if this meta thing will really help out...whatevs, it made for good discussion. I think.

[02:40] == GreenLightGM has changed nick to GreenLight

[02:40] <Spark_Chaser> It did.

[02:40] <Rain> ^

[02:40] <Spark_Chaser> Thank you all for weighing in.

[02:40] <GreenLight> >Not 'neighing in'

[02:40]  * Able_Tome spanks Green opportunist, "Shush"

[02:41]  * Quicksilver walks into chat and goes to snooze on top of Rain

[02:44]  * Rain has a quicksilver pony atop her and looks at her smiling a bit "Hey quicky, you tired?"

[02:45] <Quicksilver> mhm

[02:45] == Flora [[email protected]] has quit [Ping timeout: 202 seconds]

[02:48] <Rain> mk your est up then

[02:48] <Rain> i be poni pillow

[02:48]  * Cheren-sleep lays on pony pillow

[02:48] <GreenLight> Night, everyone.  Thanks for discussing all this

[02:48] <Able_Tome> G' night

[02:48] <Cheren-sleep> niiiiiiiiiiight

[02:49] <Cheren-sleep> gottta goooo fusrodah the arrow out of the battle of wounded knee.