
| The_Baron #532754 9 months ago |
Agreed |
| Anonymous #532758 9 months ago |
Fanfics are serious business |
| ZziAPACHEizZ #532759 9 months ago |
i see you mad why even care just ignore it |
| marioandsonic #532760 9 months ago |
Also agreed. |
| Don #532766 9 months ago |
yeah but to be fair everyone and their dog has a wiki |
| Anonymous #532770 9 months ago |
Fallout: Equestria is based on Fallout, you dumbass. Of course the main character can shrug off grievous injuries. While it's not "realistic", it fits perfectly in the source material. Have you never played an RPG in your life? |
| Epicplatypus #532774 9 months ago |
OP is mad...
he is also a hero *brohoof's OP* |
| ChickNeighney #532775 9 months ago |
Quite. |
| Mr_Jack #532778 9 months ago |
I have never read either, but this is the first time I've heard these complaints about FO:E. |
| ARGH #532782 9 months ago |
^is that a Wiki, too? |
| Drax99 #532785 9 months ago |
lol, most good stories are based around a damn Mary Sue character. I mean, seriously.. wtf people? Its a valid story mechanic. |
| NightJack #532792 9 months ago |
Or they could be like me, I don't Past Sins for the reasons there but I'm not going to take my time to insult it, and with Fallout: Equesstria it's just to me there are some things I'm not interested in seeing crossovers of so I didn't read it. |
| MagicMarker #532794 9 months ago |
@770
WAAAAAH. WAAAAAH. HOW DARE YOU MAKE FUN OF MY FAVOURITE FIC. WAAAAAAH. :3c |
| Anonymous #532796 9 months ago |
I can't get over the idea of bitching about Suedom in a fic about an RPG character. The writer actually bent the story to be less Sue-ish, not more. If it was actually true to Fallout, Littlepip would be a complete killing machine at level 30 and would single-handedly walk through every encounter going "lol pwned". |
| Monkey_Zombie #532811 9 months ago |
I hated Past sins. I just found it annoying. However I love Fallout: Equestria can't wait for the next chapter. |
| Anonymous #532817 9 months ago |
@Drax
... All Quiet On The Western Front War and Peace Huckleberry Finn Beloved The Scarlet Letter The Devil's Highway Johnny's Got His Gun Atlanta Nights Do I need go on as to why you are wrong? |
| 409 #532819 9 months ago |
^And that's the sad part. The writer failed even after trying to tone it down. |
| Jackarunda #532820 9 months ago |
iMad |
| HeinousActsZX #532822 9 months ago |
I like Past Sins and I still don't get quite why people hate Nyx so damn much. Just wanted to say that. |
| Shaky #532831 9 months ago |
I like Fallout Equestria, but giving it it's own wiki is too much. |
| Anonymous #532833 9 months ago |
#532817 fucking Dante's Inferno has the biggest Mary Sue plot device ever and it's a literary classic so shut the fuck up! |
| Anonymous #532837 9 months ago |
@#532770
Video game mechanics don't work well as story mechanics. |
| Mattatatta #532842 9 months ago |
Anon#2796 Is correct. Even if the author decided to base FO:E on New Vegas on max difficulty and Hardcore mode, Pip would still be mowing down countless waves of enemies by the time she reached 'level 30'. Pip IS powerful, but she has clearly defined limits and obstacles that are not even seen in the games.
As for Past Sins, I've personally not read it, so I cannot say anything about it. I do recall others saying that that fic's main problem was that it needed more planning prior to new updates. What I can honestly my opinion on, however, is how Nyx was pushed by fans - and later parasprites. It was funny at first, but then it became really old and yet people kept on drawing everything from Nyxabuse to Nyxalove, creating silly Nyx versions of memes and photo-chopping Nyx into pictures. The sheer volume of low-quality pictures that flooded ponibooru featuring Nyx was ridiculous, and I cannot say that it left me without a sour taste in my mouth. Sadly, some people are taking to making Advice Dog style memes based on FO:E, and I have a bad feeling that some parasprites are going to use that as an opportunity to spam FO:E everywhere. |
| Danielakiiki #532847 9 months ago |
^ It's more of a backlash against the 'ZOMG Nyx is totally canon' and other over reactions to Past Sins by a large portion of the fanbase IMHO. For me Past Sins was a terribly wasted idea. Could have been real good. The worst part, for me, was the heavy overindulgence of META content. I mean really, did the author have to bring up EVERY minor plot point/gag/reference from the series? His target audience has seen the show, we didn't need to be smacked accross the face by those references constantly. |
| Danielakiiki #532851 9 months ago |
Sorry, my comment was directed at HeinousActsZX, ninja'd. |
| Van_Horsing #532853 9 months ago |
I honestly have never read Past Sins, and I probably never will. No hate involved, I'm just not interested-Plus, I don't want to get involved in the shitstorm surrounding it at all times. The diversity of opinions amazes me. Obviously, OP likes the story. But I am awed that you have to bash what is widely accepted as one of the best stories to come from the fandom in order to soothe your butthurt. I don't know if you really hold those opinions about FoE. If you don't, you're trolling, and you're not worth my time. If you do, you seem so filled with hate that you won't listen to arguments, and I won't bother attempting to explain to you why you're wrong.
P.S. FoE has a wiki because it creates an entire universe that needs cataloging and explaining. As far as I know, Past Sins doesn't have enough material to make a wiki with. If you're so bothered by it, go start one yourself. It's free. |
| Muffinoffun #532854 9 months ago |
Jesus was a Mary-Sue. You hating on Jesus brah? |
| HeinousActsZX #532855 9 months ago |
If we're really gonna argue mary-sues, than look no further than the show itself. I love Twilight Sparkle, but she so typifies the sue-type it's really not even funny. |
| Anonymous #532856 9 months ago |
Bah. Fallout: Equestria is better written and has more endearing charcters then Past Sins. I'm afraid I must disagree with you, OP. |
| AdrianBrony #532862 9 months ago |
I always figured the only real difference is one was too close to the actual show so it could easily be compared to the real thing and one was so different from the show that the same flaws aren't quite as magnified.
either way, it really doesn't matter. like I've said before. fanfiction isn't wrong, it can be a fun time full of writing experience for the author, but it isn't in itself valid writing except in very specific circumstances, and people shouldn't get too caught up about what is popular. |
| thatguy #532863 9 months ago |
#532785
"most good stories are based around a damn Mary Sue character." lol no Only applies to video games and summer action films |
| Anonymous #532870 9 months ago |
#532855
Care to explain? She can't host a slumber party without needing instructions. And it's not like every problem gets solved with magic. (In the parasprite episode, her magic made things worse.) In fact.... >Super legendary trick nopony can do >Did it while still a filly, without even trying, therby making her faster than full grown pegasi who have been training all of their lives. >The resulting Rainboom caused all of her friends to get their Cutie Marks >And cause Applejack to move back to Ponyville >And caused Twilight to become Celestia's student. This is why I hate Rainbow. SHE'S the real Mary Sue. |
| Wyrm #532871 9 months ago |
From what I've seen, people's criterion for "Mary Sue" is so damn vague and broad that practically any character qualifies if you're willing to give it a good hard shove. In this subculture, the term is devalued and means nothing.
I read Past Sins without seeing its first incarnation and what I saw a decent fanfic. When the Anti-Nyx Faction describe events in Past Sins that supposedly underline Nyx's Mary Suedom, they sound alien — like they they're describing a similar but quite different fanfic. I think this just your confirmation bias talking. |
| AdrianBrony #532873 9 months ago |
#532855
to be fair it's fairly frequently foiled and balanced out by how incompetent she can be sometimes. it's shown in the show itself that she can be a straight up bitch at times, and she might be powerful but there are as many times her overconfidence caused a situation to get worse as there are times where her magic alone saved the day (boast busters she saved the day in, swarm of the century she ended up making things much worse.) heck, she even falls into the same faults other characters do at times. that and there are several episodes she is hardly metioned at all. she's powerful, but she has enough actual recognized faults to not be a sue. |
| Muffinoffun #532883 9 months ago |
@#532870
Well to be fair the last three were by complete accident. If she was truly a Mary-sue then she would have planned it all along or some shit. |
| TenchiFreak5 #532888 9 months ago |
OP sorta has a point, if only because Past Sins seems to get shit on for simply existing (because so many people throw out stupid arguments about it that I have to wonder how many have even read it); but on the other hand there is nothing stopping anyone from making a Past Sins wiki.
Personally, I haven't read that much FO:E, and I have no interest to after finishing the first chapter because of the sheer scope of it and the tone of it seemingly being a notch or two above what I can realistically deal with in terms of GrimDark (the most I can put up with is probably The Empty Room or TNTNE). But already I can see the same shit happening with it that turned so many people against Past Sins (OMG IT'S BEST STORY EVER being a common type of response when it is mentioned, and I know some people who have been chased out of areas for saying they didn't like it) and it does annoy me that so many people are willing to overlook the overzealous fans of one but not the other. |
| AdrianBrony #532891 9 months ago |
#532870
> stage fright that showed extreme weaknesses. > cheater > placed last in running ov the leaves > can't do said sonic rainboom every time (in sonic rainboom she tried to do it many times and failed each time) >a complete ass at times and she gets consequences from her friends for it >almost killed herself and her friends in dragonshy she has enough faults and weaknesses to balance every overpowered aspect. |
| NightJack #532903 9 months ago |
Stop going on about who is a Mary Sue, not everyone has the same idea of what one is, to me a Mary Sue is one that messes up thing to the point it derails canon characters from their base personalty. |
| HeinousActsZX #532909 9 months ago |
@Adrian I suppose, but the point I'm tryin' to make is that just because a character can be considered a sue, doesn't mean that they're unenjoyable to watch. |
| Epicplatypus #532910 9 months ago |
Nyx has faults
She's a damn crybaby mammas girl.... |
| Mattatatta #532919 9 months ago |
@danielakiiki
I might just have to read the fic to be able to respond to comments like these, because I cannot offer anything in response to that comment. The anon above my previous comment has a somewhat valid point, but it is really a non-issue. It is a crossover at the end of the day, and the author has put a lot of effort of carefully meshing the Fallout games with the world of FiM. Video game mechanics do not work as well as story mechanics, but FO:E doesn't depend heavily on game mechanics. If it did, Pip would be often perusing which weapon to use based on its Damage Per Second rating, always noting the Value of an item that the PipBuck *magically* knows, and would be able to sneak past enemies while in plain sight JUST because she's crouching, and therefore in "Sneak Mode". Kkat has pretty much abandoned the video game mechanics of the Fallout games that would really hinder the story, and has left what works with the story. The PipBuck is nowhere near as powerful as its counterpart the PipBoy, Pip doesn't literally break her legs and then completely restore her health by sleeping on a soiled mattress for an hour, and she isn't able to face off against enemies firing miniguns at her and kill them all with nothing but a bolt-action rifle. The video-game mechanics of Fallout have pretty much been left out of FO:E |
| Anonymous #532924 9 months ago |
I don't mind Nyx's character per se but what annoys the shit out of me, and I know it's a small thing, how over-accessorized she is (glasses, hairband, vest) it just seems to amplify her Sue qualities ten fold. |
| AdrianBrony #532928 9 months ago |
I think a good simple working definition of a sue is a character who has all one's faults ignored and all one's good points exaggerated.
an easy question to see if a character might be a sue: does the character "take damage" under any of the same conditions other characters do. (physical, emotional, mental, financial, reputation, punishment, etc.) if no, then it could be a sue. |
| Anonymous #532933 9 months ago |
#532891
But most her weaknesses get overcomed by the end of the episode. Like the stage fright, and the Running of the Leaves thing (which happened because she was so focused on trying to get back at Applejack (by cheating) as opposed to her being slow. At the end of the episode she learns her lesson, so that weakness is gone.) Not being able to do a super legendary trick that nopony else can do isn't a weakness. She still did it twice. Which is two Rainbooms than thought possible. And other than an occasional annoyed remark, she never get's called out on it. It's not like they ever hold a grudge. (Excpet for the Running episode, but she was under the impression that Applejack started it, and she learned her lesson as previously mentioned) Really, only the "almost getting friends killed by Dragon)" is the only thing that stands, and even then, Rarity and Pinkie weren't helping. |
| HeinousActsZX #532944 9 months ago |
Adrianbrony, Jackarunda, NightJack, Mattatatta.
The gang's all here! Now where's Hexy? |
| MagicMarker #532959 9 months ago |
HEY YOU FORGOT ME HEINOUS. JERK. ;;;A;;; *SOBS* |
| Anonymous #532960 9 months ago |
This is why I don't read fanfiction. |
| AdrianBrony #532968 9 months ago |
#532933
EVERYPONY learns their lesson at the end of the episode. that's the point. in ticket maaster, they still get actually pissed off at her, a sue wouldn't get even that much. the point is, she can't do it on command, so under normal conditions, it's best assumed she can't do it. none fo the characters ever hold grudges against eachother except that one time pinkie did for a short time in party of one. in the running of the leaves, she lost along ith AJ because she was cheating and fighting, something that celestia herself spoke against because of it. she hasn't got any more special treatment than any of the other mane 6 |
| HeinousActsZX #532974 9 months ago |
@Magic These people (and me, sometimes) are the ones who always seem to get caught up in these discussions. |
| Bongo #532979 9 months ago |
Where's PynkyPy for that matter as well? |
| AdrianBrony #532980 9 months ago |
#532974
yeah. though usually I realize when I get too caught up and I leave before I say something I can regret... usually... |
| Anonymous #532981 9 months ago |
God, you all sound so stupid. You're arguing about fan fiction about pastel-colored miniature horses. |
| Anonymous #532988 9 months ago |
You're on a site about pastel-colored miniature horses bitching about people arguing about fan fiction about pastel-colored miniature horses. |
| Anonymous #532995 9 months ago |
#532988 We need to go deeper. |
| Anonymous #532997 9 months ago |
#532988 Touche' |
| MagicMarker #533004 9 months ago |
All I honestly see on both sides are fantards of both fics picking fights over whos horn is bigger. HOWEVER, I'm sorry to say, (okay not really) but a fanfic doesn't need its' own wiki. If people want to 'learn the terms' and all that other shit they should read the story so that they don't have it spoiled when they check the wiki instead. And don't gimme that "well there's spoiler warnings" crap. No average wiki reader would ever listen to spoiler tags. And even so, if you need a wiki so people understand what the hell is going on, there might be something wrong. Besides, if you're a Fallut fan then you probably ALREADY know the terms and understand everything in the fic, and the only reason you read it is because you're a Fallout fan. :3c |
| NightJack #533005 9 months ago |
I stopped reading Past Sins to really get to a point of knowing if I liked Nyx, but even if I didn't I wouldn't wast my time putting out hate like I see people do.
Even though I'm not going to read FO:E I do think a wikia for it is a bit much, but I've see ones form crazier things. |
| Anonymous #533007 9 months ago |
#532968
Yeah, everyone does. So I don't know why you would mention them as flaws when they overcome them. Annoyed =/= pissed. They got over it in a second. That's not much of a consequence for acting like a jerk if they forget about it in a second. And yes, she did lose the race because of cheating. I said that. And she learns her lesson, thereby overcoming that flaw. And so what if she can't do it on command. Everypony else can't do it at all. And Rainbow get's to be the most important of the mane six. The catalyst that brought all of them together. That sounds like very special treatment. |
| HeinousActsZX #533013 9 months ago |
Yeesh. Who needs the hatefor the fanbase? We hate eachother enough as is. |
| AdrianBrony #533015 9 months ago |
#532981
yeah I do sound stupid but I'm bored. still better than just watching TV. |
| AdrianBrony #533028 9 months ago |
#533007
all of the characters have their own skills unique to them. they always get over it fast with all the other characters, all the characters overcome flaws they have, it's implied in that episode that things tieing friends together before they knew eachother isn't uncommon but most importantly, she is absent in plenty of episodes, or at least not playing a major role in them. even moreso, I realize that I'm never gonna be able to convince you, and you're never gonna convince me, and we're just talking around in circles. I normally don't really care but like I said before, I'm bored right now and it's kind of fun to argue for a bit, but it's losing it's fun now. |
| HeinousActsZX #533029 9 months ago |
Hey NightJack, does this whole thing kinda remind you of that epic battle we had over that Fluttershy pic?
>>66531 |
| Anonymous #533039 9 months ago |
How do people THINK a Nightmare Moon reincarnation should be, that they think is Twilights cousin? A horribly weak earth pony that they immediately hate?
Why wouldn't they treat her much like they treat the CMC? Why wouldn't she be powerful from being Nightmare Moon? Why wouldn't she wear a disguise to hide being an alicorn? There's dozens of other story's with Twilight either not thinking of, or refusing to send, a letter to Celestia about a very dangerous situation. I just don't get what people expected? |
| MagicMarker #533041 9 months ago |
Oh and Van Horsing: "But I am awed that you have to bash what is widely accepted as one of the best stories to come from the fandom"
You need a waaaaahmbulance? Because the amount of butthurt in this sentence alone is making MY ass bleed a little. :3c Your point is kinda moot when it looks more like you're giving the fic a hornjob than defending it in a civilized calm manner. 83c |
| NightJack #533044 9 months ago |
Kind of Heinous but a bit less fun. |
| Wyrm #533047 9 months ago |
Overzealous fans are a problem for any franchise, official or fan-made. Case in point: Trekkies. It's from them that we get the term "Mary Sue" in the first place.
It disappoints me, however, that some people can't distinguish between the overzealots and the actual work. By all means, speak out against those would would call Past Sins the greatest thing since sliced bread, because they deserve to be cut down to size, but you destroy your credibility when you advance bogus "reasons" for hating a particular work are part thereof. |
| MagicMarker #533054 9 months ago |
@039
It's not the fic people hate. It's that fact that an OC got popular and spawned its own sub-fandom that paraded her around like the next messiah. And this is from a fandom that loses it's shit if the term OC is even mentioned about 90% of the time. Drama ensued. :3c |
| Anonymous #533062 9 months ago |
#533028
I normally don't care either and was also just arguing to kill time. So, since your done, my last argument is... All of them are absent/don't play a major role in most episodes (except Twilight, but she's the main character so that's expected). And Rainbow's skills are explicitly stated to be thought as impossible. And most times, when shows do that "they all had a special connection before they met" thing, the special connection isn't the result of the actions of just one character. Normally, it's because of the actions of all the characters (like they all went to the same pond one day or they all saw the same fireball or some shit like that) Ok, that ended up being more that one argument....but it kills time. |
| Mattatatta #533064 9 months ago |
I never knew I was in 'the gang' *feels popular even though it was just a joke*
Anyway, I must agree on the wiki part, as much as I enjoy FO:E, the wiki just seems pretty pointless. It may be a fuckin' huge story that has spawned several side stories, and has hundreds of readers who want to talk about every aspect of it in meticulous detail (I sure love doing that, myself, but usually more with FiM's universe than a fan fic's universe). But none of that is a reason to start a wiki, it's a reason to start a fan forum at best. I'd personally like to just go somewhere FO:E dedicated to discuss the story in a more comfortable setting rather than break EqD with thousands of comments on the story's post. But I digress. Point being, I agree with the wiki seeming to be pointless, but on the other hand, it isn't doing any harm, so why get fussed over it? Meanwhile, the Nyx image spam has pretty much ceased now, so fans of that story are not going to be causing any harm, either. So again, why are people still fussed about it? |
| NightJack #533080 9 months ago |
@MagicMarker
You said it. it's the people like that I hate, I only have a mild dislike for an OC at the most but most times I just don't care. |
| MagicMarker #533112 9 months ago |
@Mattatta
I think the reason the Wiki thing was brought up is because it kind of gives FO:E more of a presence in just how large it's become, whereas with Past Sins the vast presence is brought forth by how much people love/hate it. The OP was just looking for a fanfic that balanced out with how negatively people were reacting to Past Sins. BUT, on a similar topic, Cupcakes has MULTIPLE sequels, TONS of fanart, it's own Know Your Meme page, Videos, two Tumblr blogs based in its mythos, and a kind of cult following, but the anon never thought once to use THAT instead of FO:E. :3c And before anyone says it, I LOOOOOOOVED Cupcakes. <33333 |
| Anonymous #533115 9 months ago |
#533039
The problems with the story start near the beginning. Twilight get's kidnapped and taken to the Everfree forest. She's then promptly rescued. Ok. That's perfectly fine. The problem comes in when, on the very next day. Not only has she completely recovered from the emotional trauma sane people would incur from getting kidnapped and almost dieing (because it's not like NMM would be very happy to see Twilight) but, she also decides to go in the monster filled forest and sight of her kidnapping all by herself to get a book. So unless I missed the episode where Twilight shows that she doesn't understand the concept of fear, it's safe to say that she's acting way ooc. (I actually don't have a problem with Nyx herself because she's an OC and a child, which of course aren't known for being smart and thinking things though, but after she turns into NMM and gets her memories, she still acts like a whiny bitch. I do have a problem with Rarity suddenly getting brain damage and trying to design an outfit to show of Nyx's wings even though the sole reason Twilight brought Nyx there was to get something to hide them.) |
| HeinousActsZX #533118 9 months ago |
I should be asleep, but I wanna say one last thing.
If we listened to what the show says, none of us would be here now. Think about that. |
| AdrianBrony #533120 9 months ago |
last thing to say before I leave and it's really more a food for thought thing, but OC's have been a part of MLP fandom since G1. Hasbro even allowed you to order custom pony toys for a while back in G2. |
| Racetrack #533139 9 months ago |
Wasn't too fond of Past Sins and I can't really remember why, which seems like a good enough reason to read it again to at least see what the fuss is about.
On the other hand, I was totally in love with FO:E when I first started reading it. I think it was still right around 7 chapters when I started playing catch up. While it does irk me that Lilpip is basically invincible, the Lone Wanderer in vanilla FO is essentially the same way, so it does kinda play along with the story. For how much FO:E is like the vanilla game, it just needs mods. Mods like Wanderer's Edition, with shit turned up to the hardest difficulty. Feral Ghoul rampage x5 with 3-4x spawn and all you got is a warblade and a hunting rifle with 16 shots. lol |
| Anonymous #533164 9 months ago |
Finally! I was beginning to think I wasn't the only one sucked into Fallout Equestria. It's fairly competent, but the story is frankly poorly paced, the characters badly drawn, and just generally doesn't' rise above your typical crossover fanfic. I am honestly mystified as to why all the fuss over a mediocre piece of work. |
| devour #533178 9 months ago |
It is okay if I liked both of them? |
| Anonymous #533194 9 months ago |
TL:DR. Besides isn't past sins like 15 chapters and only about half a foot deep. FoE is like 40 chapters and its got a ton of story points, locations and characters. Gets complex. Wiki is nice. Besides, I always thought the Past Sins trolls were trolls from outside the community who simply found a weak spot to jam their claws into. It's what they do. |
| Edudls #533220 9 months ago |
@Anon3194
This makes a surprising amount of sense. Oh wait, it's not surprising at all. Anyway... GIGANTIC FUCKING WALLS OF TEXT |
| Anonymous #533298 9 months ago |
Sure is manufactured drama in here. |
| AdrianBrony #533332 9 months ago |
#533298
yeah, sorry for contributing. I try to catch myself but... eh, can't be perfect. |
| Xuncu #533440 9 months ago |
Beowulf. 'Origional' version (the one we read in English Lit, not whatever is lost to history), not the one with Angelina's gilded (body-stand-in's) ass. |
| RealityCheck #533453 9 months ago |
Must contest "bad grammar" and "stupidity of the cast."
"Bad grammar"--- I'm sure there are grammar errors, but fail to recall any GLARING examples. "Stupidity of the main cast"--- uh, in what way precisely? They were pretty much in-character-- from their general "ready-to-forgive" attitudes to Twilight's paranoia about how the Princess would react. <I>The problem comes in when, on the very next day. Not only has she completely recovered from the emotional trauma... she also decides to go in the monster filled forest and sight of her kidnapping all by herself to get a book. </I> You mean miss "books are life" Twilight? the same Twilight who goes into the Everfree forest five or six times in just the first season? Even after Nightmare Moon, the poison joak, the manticore, the cockatrice, and the dragon? I think we can conclude she has a certain problem with relative threat assessment, yes. <I>I do have a problem with Rarity suddenly getting brain damage and trying to design an outfit to show of Nyx's wings</i> Maybe you missed it but that's what Rarity does to EVERYONE who walks into her boutique... her fashionista side runs away with her. <I>annoys the shit out of me, and I know it's a small thing, how over-accessorized she is (glasses, hairband, vest)</i> Um, hello, alicorn, wings, weird eyes, NEED DISGUISE? And again, Rarity's fabulosity fetish. <I>She's a damn crybaby mammas girl....</i> Considering her "original ingredients" included a heaping dose of Luna's negative emotions and self-image... and oh yeah, her very first day of life consisted of waking up with no memories, bleeding in a thornbush in the middle of Everfree Forest in a freaking thunderstorm... and being stuck there for HOURS.....<I>full grown adults</i> would be traumatized by that sort of experience, much less a little girl. |
| SilkGarrote #533465 9 months ago |
This story sounds tedious. |
| Anonymous #533485 9 months ago |
Not really... Past Sins keeps getting revised by the author, one of the few who does keep refining his work, and most of the parts that drag were shortened or made better.
Fair warning though, a great deal of it focuses on Nyx interacting with ponyville... while this is necessary for the plot, it can be seen as tedious if you don't go in for the cutesy stuff... |
| Anonymous #533490 9 months ago |
And we do have to remember that there are degrees of realism... a story set in a mythical land of magic and adventure tends to have it's characters shrug off things that would destroy a person's mind and body in the real... it's just the nature of what level of reality we are dealing with. |
| Anonymous #533622 9 months ago |
Why are we even discussing fanfiction? |
| sweatshirt #533624 9 months ago |
frosted butts |
| primedawg9170 #533672 9 months ago |
I haven't read FO:E and I don't plan to read it cause it's not my cup of tea With it being WAY too grimdark for my taste and having its cast mostly OC's (Maybe if it wasn't set in the future, had the Mane 6 as the main characters or something and not have a lot of OC's then I could've read it and enjoy it.) but doesn't it already have a TV Tropes page? cause to me, having a page at TV Tropes is good enough for a fanfiction and having a wiki for it is too much, even if it is a big story and all. |
| zeyro #533726 9 months ago |
I am purely doing this to continue a discussion/debate on said topics with only my understandings and beliefs which I am willing to revise if I think a better point/reason has been given. I do this because discussions are enjoyable as long as you aren't just trying to "win" the argument and simply want to put information together and compare it to what others think.
So from what I've compiled here... -Past Sins is bad because it has Nyx which is a "Mary Sue" and it wasn't as thought out as it should have been. The second half can possibly be invalidated partially due to the "revisions" done to the story causing most hate to be directed at older versions. -Fallout Equestria is bad because it has Lilpip who is a "Mary Sue" who can eat bullets like nobody's business. This can possibly be invalidated because she actually get hit by bullets and does not simply walk away afterwards. -Fallout Equestria is good because it does not use Fallout game mechanics. Instead, it only uses it's universe and the concepts surrounding it while adding or modifying things to fit with the FiM universe as well. -There is a debate going on whether "Mary Sue/Gary Stu" are regular story elements or whether they are not. These were both backed up with stories I have not read, though I believe that characters often use at least a few "Mary Sue" traits. However, I have watched a fair amount of shows and read stories where the characters show traits of a "Mary Sue" therefore my opinion may be biased. -Twilight Sparkle was brought into question for being a "Mary Sue" (Not sure if they cited any moments or not) and I can add that: ->She is arguably one of the strongest unicorns in Equestria or at least very powerful in her own right ->Acts completely snarky to the pony's upon arrival and they all suddenly like her by the end of the day. ->Effect of 1st reason: Prized student of the Princess of Equestria. -Twilight's "Mary Sue" traits can possibly be invalidated because she has some flaws to her character which allow her overpowered-ness to balance out. -Rainbow Dash was also brought into question for being a "Mary Sue" due to: ->Brash and sometimes rude attitude which is never addressed (Compare to Trixie who did almost the same thing yet was instantly despised by everyone) ->Quite possibly the fastest flyer in all of Equestria or at least very fast and better than most ->Able to pull off the supposedly impossible "Sonic Rainboom" then does it twice (so far) in her lifetime. -Similar to Twilight, Rainbow Dash may also be excused from being a "Mary Sue" because of her flows shown in the show (I'm not sure if they listed any, if they didn't ignore this or take only at face value) -Almost all of the above can possibly be invalidated because there is no official rules for a character to become a "Mary Sue" and because of this the guidelines can vary greatly and is more like a list of traits you should avoid giving a character plenty of. This in turn would mean that all characters can have "Mary Sue" traits, it's just a matter of whether you think there's too many of them or not. -Then there's the whole other debate going on about the necessity of a Fallout: Equestria Wiki page which I find funny because: The "Why would this need a wiki page?" argument can be invalidated if you were to look at the MLP:FiM Wiki page. Unless you think a 26+2 episode show needs a whole wiki when half of it is also fan based things such as background ponies, then I can't see how that's any more unnecessary than a story spanning over 1500+ pages and can practically be a novel itself. Included with characters who aren't just "fanon" to the story's universe (FO:E's story, not Canon MLP:FiM) built for mature audiences and has a whole lot more concepts which may need a whole lot more explanation than at face value to figure out. That should about cover everything. If you read all of this you should be at the least caught up to speed on this picture's comment debate (As of about an hour ago from this post or so) if not rearing and ready to prove me wrong, which I want to see (No intended sarcasm, that's just the internet for you) and find out what you think about it. |
| Anonymous #533813 9 months ago |
It has a wiki ?!
AWESOME ! /)^3^(\ and seriously, just stop this stupid discussion and enjoy stuff. Past Sins was pretty good and Fallout Equestria is better than most Novels I ever read (and I read a lot) and I don't think Nyx and Lilpip qualify as a mary sue. (Well Nyx maybe, but it still works in the context of the story) |
| Anonymous #533915 9 months ago |
Fallout equestria is so good it actually got me into reading fanfics. |
| Digara #533930 9 months ago |
People hate Nyx because of the accessories she wears, you do realise they're there to disguise the fact she's an alicorn, right? Take a look at her eyes with and without the glasses.
Anyways... if Littlepip and Blackjack qualify as a mary sue, then that's normal since they're protagonists of a fallout based world. Just compare them to the vault dweller, chosen one, lone wanderer or courier. They and thier companions changed the very face of the world, completing and doing things no one else had even dreamed of doing ever since the war ended including but not limited to slaughtering entire armies of what's supposed to be a physically superior race in every combat based aspect, hobbling out of ground zero of a massive explosion, giving yourself a shot and just walking out fine. The fact a community who's supposed to know better (love and tolerate the shit out of you) is showing so much hate towards a character is kinda saddening. |
| Carcer #534155 9 months ago |
What I'm confused about here is why so many people seem to find the idea of someone setting up a wikia for something they like is so abhorrent. It's not like we have an extremely limited supply of internet and everyone on the web must be consulted before someone is allowed to start their own website. |
| Anonymous #534224 9 months ago |
OH U GUISE STOPIT |
| Anonymous #534892 9 months ago |
I like Past Sins.
I also like Fallout: Equestria. /blackhole |
| Anonymous #535484 9 months ago |
"Brony Logic" is hardly a qualifier. |
| Anonymous #535590 9 months ago |
My problem with Past Sins is that the mythos of NMM and Nyx as presented is not very interesting compared to some other alternate explanations.
I don't think you need to introduce an OC and then make it a main character when there are so many in-universe characters at hand. It feels like the OC the author had in mind was in need of conflict to drive the story and a tie-in to the main six, and using it to explain NMM was the way to do this (also that NMM had other attributes that were in line with the author's OC). This bothers me for some reason. It felt backwards. |
| Anonymous #535815 9 months ago |
people bitch about mary sue in a fanfic based off of an rpg. mfw |
| Bongo #536531 9 months ago |
MY GOD YOU GUYS ARE STILL COMPLAINING ABOUT THIS STUFF!? |
| Kkat #536822 9 months ago |
Wow.
Probably shouldn't say anything, but here is my "two bits": Complaining and being "butthurt" is an international past-time. This should not surprise. Granted, bronies should be better than that. But all too often, they're not. Personally, I enjoyed what I've read of Past Sins. There were a few moments where characterization threw me, but it was still a well done and enjoyable story. There were several beautiful and moving scenes. I definitely recommend it. (For record: I started reading after many of the revisions, so I don't know what all the original-version brony psychosis was about, and I haven't read the final chapters because I've gotten a bit pre-occupied.) Claims of "Mary Sue" regarding Nyx are vastly overstated, and most of the hatred seems to be people who are taking out their frustration with the fans on the authors and their work. These stories, and a great many others, represent the hard work of authors who have given hundreds of hours of their free time to produce something for other bronies' enjoyment. For free. What a way to say "thank you". The OP, and many of the folks here, are just trying to tear down the authors and their stories through gross hyperbole and misrepresentation because they can't handle the fact that a lot of people actually enjoy the stories. They hope to get others to jump on their hatred bandwagon, because it helps them feel good about themselves. Congratulations on being scum. (And I'm willing to bet that most of the "haters" here haven't actually read the stories they are complaining about. And reading just a few chapters doesn't count -- I mean the whole damn things. Most of them are just reacting to the fact that the stories are popular.) In other words, they're acting a whole lot of exactly like most people who hate bronies and MLP: FiM. Have a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaH4wFL7P8c As for the wiki: Personally, my own initial reaction to the Fallout: Equestria wiki was "Why?" I originally thought the idea was simply overboard. But then I realized: it's truly amazing and humbling that Fallout: Equestria has actually prompted other people to want to write. To have even inspired one person to write, one brony to add to the community (much less so many), means the story has accomplished more than could have been hoped. And these new writers should absolutely be encouraged. (Complaining is easy. Actually producing is hard. Encouragement is more valuable than gold.) Since it is Fallout: Equestria that inspired them, and they wish to write within that world, they would naturally want a resource to help keep up with all the elements and facets of that world so they could make their stories as true to their inspiration as possible. No one could reasonably expect them to keep everything in a 500K+ word epic straight in their heads. Thus, a wiki is a completely reasonable writers' reference for these fans. |
| Bongo #536968 9 months ago |
THE PROVIDER HAS SPOKEN
Now just go back to your normal loving and tolerating lives Bronies... |
| Anonymous #538486 9 months ago |
I dare to stand up and say that I haven't and won't read Fallout Equestria because of one simple thing:
I hate Fallout, not the game, but any fanfiction of it. Even crossovers. Especially crossovers. I mean, it's probably a good story and all, but it just didn't appeal to me when I read the first few chapters. Probably because of an aversion to grimdark. |
| Anonymous #538562 9 months ago |
But dude, it has that undercurrent of hope. One filly and her team of reluctant asskickers bringing light to a shattered, abused world, one bullet at a time. One filly emerges into post-apocalypse and says "AW HELL NO! This is not how things are suppose to be. I will fucking end this shit, even if I have to do it alone." Honestly very inspiring. Good message for our world. |
| Anonymous #538735 9 months ago |
^ I've seen worse reasons, like this one guy on /co/ who stopped reading simply because Calamity's brother called him his "little brony." |
| Anonymous #541069 9 months ago |
People are too sensitive. I love all the fan fics. I wil read them all. Except Spiderses. |
| Anonymous #542021 9 months ago |
@Kkat
So, according to you, we're not allowed to give ANY criticism whatsoever to a fanwork's author, no matter how terrible their work is, just because they decided to waste time in writing a fanfic instead of doing something more constructive with their time. Lol, nope. No, no, no, and hell no. If you can't take the criticism, keep your fanfiction to yourself. If you decide to post it online, it WILL get criticized. It's inevitable >"They're just jealous that it's popular and never read it!" True, there probably are some, but from what I've seen the majority HAVE read the fic, and DO hate it for its flaws, and don't give a damn for it's popularity. Also, it's perfectly valid to, say, give up on and hate something on the first act. If it's shit in the beginning, why wait for the slim possibility that it will get less shitty? First impressions, or in this case the quality of the first few chapters, DO matter, and you a liar if you say otherwise. |
| Kkat #542815 9 months ago |
Both the authors of Past Sins and I have always openly encouraged feedback and constructive criticism.
That is not what you, the OP and a great many others are doing. Instead, you are being bullies, enjoying the anonymity that the internet allows to tear down other people's work for fun and because it allows you a false sense of superiority. And your defense of your actions is that since it is possible for you to be a dick, it is okay and nobody else should call you on it. Might makes right, so let's see what we can burn. Congratulations, you're a raider. Go you. "Don't give a damn for it's popularity" is the most honest thing you've said. And really, this is the core of most of the hatred I have seen, especially for Past Sins. A bunch of reactionary dickwads railing against something *because* it's popular. Grow up. Or at least find another fandom. The brony community aspires to be better than you. There are plenty of people who have "given My Little Pony a try" only to have given up by the end of the opening song on the first episode. Giving up on an epic length story after the first few chapters is just as valid. It is perfectly acceptable to give up on something after very brief exposure. However, it is *not* valid to "hate on something" without having actually experienced more than the most insignificant taste of it. |
| Hex-Master #542948 9 months ago |
I just want to take this opportunity to say the following. I read all twenty-one chapters of Past Sins. ALL TWENTY-ONE. Someone would not stop hounding me to read it and I did it. I read the entire bloody story.
And it was terrible. Look I can respect Pen Stroke's initial concept with the "Nature vs. Nurture" question. And I'll even admit that Twilight taking care of baby Nyx is adorable (Nobody let the Nyx-fans read that part!) but it just completely falls apart with the second act. I was looking forward to an intriguing fall to the dark side and instead I was treated to brutal character derailment on both Celestia and Twilight's part. I mean it took Celestia, the wise and benevolent queen of Equestria, and somehow turned her into both a brain-dead ditz and a heartless monster. That's about as far out of character as you can possibly get for Celestia. She's completely fooled by a cultist who should be her number-one suspect (Spell Nexus DID have the shards, remember, and I can't imagine it'd be easy to get those out of Canterlot) and seriously considers destroying a child because she might become a threat later on. Let me repeat that: The same ruler that won't even get rid of the bloody avatar of chaos is contemplating killing a child. We get so little characterization for Celestia on the show, and yet Pen Stroke manages to disregard all of it for this tripe. The whole thing is such complete emotional manipulation on the author's part I feel like I'm watching Avatar all over again. Celestia is the Evil Queen trying to take poor little Nyx away. And then Nyx becomes the main character for the second act. While she's still evil. That's like Darth Vader being the hero of Episodes 4-6! I was expecting to see Twilight and the others trying to save Nyx, bring her back to being good. Instead, we get chapter upon chapter of Nyx wallowing in angst thick enough to break a butter knife. There's nothing compelling about this fall. There's nothing exciting. You pretty much destroy two characters so little-miss-emo can whine about her lot in life for ten straight chapters. So yeah, I really don't like Past Sins. I don't like what Pen Stroke did with the characters, the guy completely destroyed any prior characterization, and I do not give a fuck about baby Nyx anymore. Thrown her on a barbeque for all I care! I mean turn-about is fair play, the author pretty much threw Celestia under the bus. |
| Kkat #542992 9 months ago |
@Hex-Master:
That is an understandable opinion. Having read the entire story, you are able to share opinions from a foundation of actually knowing what you are talking about. Respectable. Having read the story under duress, the negativity you display is not surprising, although I suggest the malevolence is misplaced -- you should be upset at the person who hounded you, not at the story or the authors. Past Sins is a story, and one with flaws. To be turned off by those flaws, to not like the story because of them, is perfectly reasonable. However, bearing hatred and venom towards a *story* is beneath you. Isn't it? |
| Hex-Master #543017 9 months ago |
No. I literally can't get over how manipulative this story is. I know all of us wish I'd just shut up - you, me, and the Nyx fanboys- but I can't stop.
P.S. I'm really sorry we had to meet under these circumstances, I'm actually a big Fallout:Equestria fan. I just can't back down on this though, man. |
| Anonymous #543307 9 months ago |
@Kkat
Uh, plenty of people mock and ridicule things in real life, publicly. Ever look around Youtube for Twilight parodies? I'm pretty sure most of us would still mock and ridicule PS, or any fic for that matter, if the Internet was public. So what if we do, what can anyone do other then tell us to shut up? Popularity is certainly part of what makes hating something so attractive. Particularly for trolls to prey on overly butthurt fans. Seriously, take a look at any Nyxabuse pic's comments. But that is not the ONLY reason people would hate it. Really, responding to the trolls in any way other than "Cool story bro" is just going to give them a hard-on and encourage them. If you fuel the trolls, it's your own fault. Hex's opinion matches mine pretty well, and I can say with confidence that it's the opinion of many of us here, or at least that's what many discussions in various MLP fangroups have shown me. There's definitely people who are just hating just because it's popular, but they're just as lame as people getting on MLP's popularity wagon just because it's popular, so they... I dunno, can get attention? I don't claim to be a mind reader. >i'm simply stating what many PShaters feela about this fic, without saying any particularly malicious >I haven't even made hateart or hatefics or whatever >"You're a dick, a dishonest bully and troll! GTFO out of my fandom!" So, just because I don't have the same opinion as you, I'm all of the above? And you tell me to grow up? Hahaha, oh wow. GTFO of Ponibooru and go back to writing FO: E, I want the new chapter soon. |
| Anonymous #543317 9 months ago |
^anything particularly malicious, derp |
| Kkat #543592 9 months ago |
@Hex-Master
Thank you. And don't worry about it. You're not one of the bronies making a bad impression, and my criticisms weren't really aimed at you. Your opinion (and I hope I am summarizing this accurately) seems to be: "Having read the entire story, I find Past Sins to be highly manipulative, striving for emotional blows at the cost of massive character derailment." That is a valid, reasonable and completely respectable opinion. The only issue I would take is with the intensity. Lets face it, massive character derailment is so common in fan-fiction that stories which are actually in-character are praised thanks to their rarity (who is the best pony). Yet the vast multitude of those character-abusing stories do not garner even a fraction of the hate that Past Sins does, and I am driven to conclude that the true sin of the story is being /popular/. That said, there is nothing wrong with having different opinions, so long as you are polite and respectful about it. You like Fallout: Equestria; but I'm sure you'll agree that there is nothing wrong with a brony saying they don't like it, so long as they are civil about it. There's much to dislike about the story. (It's a grimdark tale of post-apocalyptic OC ponies, fer chrissake... I'm still surprised I have any readers, much less that people are inspired to /write/ because of this.) Authors and artists, even the bad ones, deserve respect for actually producing something for this fandom, for free, and having the courage to make their stories available to the public. People who mock and ridicule, particularly from a place of ignorance or because hating is attractive and fun and nobody can stop them, deserve no respect at all. Those are the people that my criticisms were aimed towards. Take the earlier conversation and the OP: Some people call Nyx a Mary Sue. Some people call Littlepip one. Some claim Twilight Sparkle and/or Rainbow Dash are Mary Sues. Truth is, people will call any fictional character they don't like a "Mary Sue", especially if it is a popular character, and these claims have quite varied levels of accuracy. Part of the problem is that most people have only a vague grasp on what a Mary Sue actually is, beyond something bad and suitably inflammatory. The only good way to determine if a character is a Mary Sue is by running the character through a number of different "Mary Sue Litmus Tests" and seeing what kinds of results they get. However, to accurately use these tests requires having the knowledge the tests call for: First, you need to know the author well enough to be able to accurately recognize the signs of a self-insert. Personally, I doubt many of the bronies here are close enough friends to Pen Stroke and Batty Gloom to be able to make that assessment. Considering how bronies keep asking my gender (answer: irrelevant -- I'm not looking to sleep with you), it's not difficult to assert that no brony has that kind of knowledge about me. Without that kind of insight, you'd just be making wild guesses and assumptions. Second, you need to know about the character -- their abilities, what they do and what happens to them throughout the story. Using my own story as an example, bronies who have only read the first few (and shortest) chapters in a forty-something chapter epic don't know squat. It's one thing to read that much and say "nope, not for me." But people running around yelling "Mary Sue" like their pants are on fire when they haven't read the damn stories they're railing against just show themselves to be trolls (and, frankly, morons). To summarize: 1) Have your own opinions. (Don't just jump on a bandwagon.) 2) Voice those opinions with civility and respect, both for other bronies and for the artists and authors whose works you are commenting on, regardless of your feelings towards the works themselves or the fans of those works. 3) Do not try to criticize what you haven't read. If you have only read part of a story, or only read a previous edition, then have the stones to admit that you can't speak with any authority about anything beyond what you did read. You, Hex-Master, seem to be following those reasonably well. That makes you cool in my eyes. |
| Anonymous #544135 9 months ago |
#543307 isn't very good at this |
| Anonymous #588725 9 months ago |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fZOoeHFG6s&feature=related
This is this pic in a nutshell. |
| Anonymous #1108028 4 months ago |
I dont get the past sins hate. It was a good story. If you dont like it....then ignore it? I dont see how complaning about it gets you anywhere. And F.E. Is pretty good as well. Dont see why a story gets so much hate. |
| Anonymous #1271139 2 months ago |
Hur hur hur, aye kan yose thuh werd stupider beecuz moar stoopid iz foar smaret peepls |
| Anonymous #1271208 2 months ago |
I'm already following over a dozen stories (An Eccentric Trespasser, Antipodes, At Her Majesty's Pleasure, Beating the Heat, Corona Blaze, Gaia, Giving Love a Helping Hoof, Memories of Days Long Past, Mythbuckers, On a Whisper of Wind, Sunshine and Fire, The Midnight Crusades, and The Testing Initiative) and trying to get caught up in others (Aitran, Progress, The 63rd Rune, The Mines of Dragon Mountain, and Through the Eyes of Another Pony), and proof reading them as I do so (screen capping all the errors to compile later, backlog of >1000 images), so I'm not adding another two to the list, but I've read Better Living Through Science and Ponies, and it made me respect Pen Stroke's writing creds. I'm not familiar at all with Fallout (it's a gami I think, or a series of games maybe?) so I don't know if I could follow Fallout: Equestria.
tl;dr: TL;DR |