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Jackarunda
#448278
10 months ago
Pretty much
Anonymous
#448286
10 months ago
Out of order. Correct order is: panel 1, panel 3, panel 2
Fanloser
#448290
10 months ago
So, so true.
Anonymous
#448292
10 months ago
I've never really read past sins, and don't plan to, since almost everyone says it's terrible.

So, please explain why Nyx is so sue-ish?
BILL_POOTIS
#448298
10 months ago
Oh, cool. Ponibooru signed me out again, AND I did a typo.
Anonymous
#448302
10 months ago
Incorrect. The obvious Original Character with overt connections to the cast, a comically terrible name, and a desire for generic revenge is far less dangerous as it can be easily spotted and eliminated.

A character like Nyx, who camouflages itself as an established character and hides behind a facade of gravitas is far more insidious and destructive to a fanbase.
Anonymous
#448316
10 months ago
@#448292

Bad name? Check.
Alicorn-level powers? Check.
Ridiculous origin story? Check.
Beloved by everyone to the point of making other characters inept? Check.
Usurping focus of the story from the actual main characters? Check.

Any questions?
Anonymous
#448326
10 months ago
Almost everyone says it's terrible? It is the highest rated fic on EqD! There's merely an obnoxiously loud minority of people who hate it, but that's inevitable with anything that's popular.
Anonymous
#448335
10 months ago
@#448326

You know what else is really, really popular right now?

Twilight.
Anonymous
#448343
10 months ago
I seem to recall some discussion about the quality of the writing itself, nevermind the character Nyx.
Still, *I* happened to like the story. It is a good piece of *fiction*.
Fanloser
#448354
10 months ago
@#448335 Would that be the pony or the book series.
Anonymous
#448360
10 months ago
@#448335
Your point being? If Twilight is bad then it's not worth your time getting worked up over. If Past Sins was bad and unpopular, you would ignore it and move on. The only reason you waste your time hating on it is because it's popular.
Anonymous
#448365
10 months ago
@#448354

The BAD one.
Anonymous
#448370
10 months ago
Awww. I'm sure you're Roboshi's favorite, Nyx!
Aquaman52
#448375
10 months ago
@#448360

The WAAmbulance is on the way.

I'm pretty sure half the reason people even bother to say stuff like that is because they know the fans will react and be all, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!" 'S not really how literary criticism works, I'm afraid. Popular stuff isn't good by default, and good stuff isn't popular by default. This is fact, and will always be so; ergo, people will call bad stuff if they think they see it.

/never actually read more than one chapter of Past Sins, just enjoys watching the shitstorms it causes
Fanloser
#448376
10 months ago
@#448365 The book/movie series it is then.
Anonymous
#448383
10 months ago
Nyx didn't leave any impression on me, personally. I don't like her much, but she's not worth all the hate. There are far worse travesties in fanfics.
NightJack
#448393
10 months ago
I've only read some of Past Sins and I don't like it, not for Nyx I just don't care for the story.
But to cover all OCs I think any alicorns are the worst ones, there are only 2 in canon so they have to be rare and I see to many of them.
Draconaes
#448702
10 months ago
@355 You know what else is really popular right now? Ponies. Yeah, this doesn't really prove anything, does it?
Draconaes
#448706
10 months ago
Obviously I meant 335 not 355.
Wyrm
#448719
10 months ago
@#448316

Bad name? Show me a pony with a GOOD name before you say that.

Alicorn-level powers? Yes. A given when she's the reincarnation of a known alicorn, and when she comes into her own as a full alicorn, she's a (misguided) bad guy. (At least so far — haven't finished yet.)

Ridiculous origin story? No. Not compared to a real Mary Sue origin story, which is basically a convergence of stylistically improbable ocurances if not downright impossible given the setting (robot ninja pirate vampires, anyone?). All Nyx required was a botched attempt to reincarnate Nightmare Moon — it's unusual, but not ridiculous.

Beloved by everyone to the point of making other characters inept? No. Twilight performs about as expected for a mother-figure of her background — she is a dork, after all. And Nyx was accepted just about as easily as Twilight herself — ponies are gregarious, after all.

Usurping focus of the story from the actual main characters? No.

The last one is important. Twilight shares the limelight with Nyx, by necessity as that is what the fic is really about — their building relationship with each other. Without Twilight's involvement, there would be no story.

I've never seen the original form of the story, but in the current version I do not see a Mary Sue in Nyx. I don't see a superbly written character in Nyx either, but if I wanted to read about superbly written characters, I wouldn't be reading fanfiction.

So stop trying to convince us that she's a Mary Sue. She isn't, and anyone who's read the current draft of the damn story knows it.
Hex-Master
#448788
10 months ago
@#448719
Except that she IS a Mary Sue. She's not Nightmare Moon, she's barely more than a clone considering she has none of Nightmare Moon's personality and only gets her memories through osmosis.

Everyone is obsessed with the little brat, so much so that Celestia, who imprisoned her own SISTER on the moon to save Equestria, feels bad because "DAAW, SHE'S SUCH A CUTE LITTLE FILLY!"

The story might actually be good if it was about Twilight observing Nyx potentially developing into NMM. Instead, most of the story focuses on Nyx at school rather than the actual cast of the MLP, Twilight and her friends.

Sorry to burst your bubble, kid.
Jaskobs
#448829
10 months ago
you im starting to think a lot of you grew up on a vineyard, cause all im hearing is a lot of whine. (budum tish)
in all seriousness, quite your fucking bitching.
Wyrm
#448830
10 months ago
"Except that she IS a Mary Sue. She's not Nightmare Moon, she's barely more than a clone considering she has none of Nightmare Moon's personality and only gets her memories through osmosis."

So? Reincarnation and reincarnation memories are older than dirt. They're a trope. They are not indicative of a Mary Sue.

"Everyone is obsessed with the little brat, so much so that Celestia, who imprisoned her own SISTER on the moon to save Equestria, feels bad because "DAAW, SHE'S SUCH A CUTE LITTLE FILLY!" "

What version did you read? Or did you read any version? Furthermore, are you actually listening to yourself? What kind of monster wouldn't feel bad taking away a child from her mother-figure?

"The story might actually be good if it was about Twilight observing Nyx potentially developing into NMM."

In the current version, she does. It's a constant worry.

"Instead, most of the story focuses on Nyx at school rather than the actual cast of the MLP, Twilight and her friends."

It has that too. Why is this bad?

"Sorry to burst your bubble, kid."

The difference between you and me, "kid," is that I can back up my shit.
CranialHeartache
#448891
10 months ago
Man, I am almost beginning to be on the precipice of rage at people who hate Nyx when I really don't see what the big problem is and why can't they just accept and love anyone for who they are.
CranialHeartache
#448899
10 months ago
Why would a story focused on Nyx, Twilight, and partially on the princesses talk about the other mane cast more?

And Wyrm, great job.
Hex-Master
#448905
10 months ago
@#448830
"Reincarnation and reincarnation memories are older than dirt. They're a trope. They are not indicative of a Mary Sue."

No but the fact that Nightmare Moon, the real one, was the consciousness commanding the head cultist does. She's not Nightmare Moon, she's a blank slate.

"What version did you read? Or did you read any version?"

I read the version where Celestia is portrayed as a moron who is smart enough to realize a cult leader is hiding right under her nose. And then rather than prepare a ritual herself, she just gives the baby directly to him. So much for a thousand years of experience...

"Furthermore, are you actually listening to yourself? What kind of monster wouldn't feel bad taking away a child from her mother-figure?"

Mother-figure. Heh.

I just said Celestia was willing to banish her own sister to protect the world. I don't think a few months as someone else's daughter would be that hard to do.

One life versus the lives of every pony in Equestria? Celestia always goes full Picard. It's in her origin story.

"In the current version, she does. It's a constant worry."

Then why did I have to read an entire chapter about Nyx thinking about Diamond Dogs?

"It has that too. Why is this bad?"

Because it's the majority. There's no room for tension to build because you're always in Nyx's head. If the story continued liked in had from chapter two, with everything from Twilight's POV, the reader would question whether Nyx really was NMM. As it is, it's obvious from the get-go that she's not.

"The difference between you and me, "kid," is that I can back up my shit."

I like you, you're a formidable opponent.
Anonymous
#448925
10 months ago
Trollolololololololol!
Anonymous
#448931
10 months ago
You guys do have names. You're not an anon.
Aquaman52
#448938
10 months ago
<img>http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lkjp94bpq51qjxtmio1_250.jpg</img>
Aquaman52
#448940
10 months ago
WELP THAT WORKED.
Hex-Master
#448949
10 months ago
@#448940
Oh Aquaman, you can't do anything right.
zeyro
#450294
10 months ago
I can't say I know how poorly written the original version was, but I enjoyed the re-write.

"Except that she IS a Mary Sue. She's not Nightmare Moon, she's barely more than a clone considering she has none of Nightmare Moon's personality and only gets her memories through osmosis."

-She is barely more than a clone
-None of NMM's personality

You just contradicted yourself unless you're only talking about her physical appearance which is explained in a fairly believable manner.

"No but the fact that Nightmare Moon, the real one, was the consciousness commanding the head cultist does. She's not Nightmare Moon, she's a blank slate."

-Nightmare Moon, the real one, was the consciousness commanding the head cultist does.

How does a separate character being the bad guy have anything to do with her other than that she was formed from her?

The "blank slate" comment once again contradicts the fact that you called her a clone before unless you're talking about physical appearance.

"I read the version where Celestia is portrayed as a moron who is smart enough to realize a cult leader is hiding right under her nose. And then rather than prepare a ritual herself, she just gives the baby directly to him. So much for a thousand years of experience... "

All this talks about is Celestia. How Celestia made a mistake, which I admit seems a bit dire considering her experience, in believing her own student would not betray her. However, this says nothing about Nyx itself. If anything, this just says that the writer made a mistake in having the scene happen like that.

"I just said Celestia was willing to banish her own sister to protect the world. I don't think a few months as someone else's daughter would be that hard to do.
One life versus the lives of every pony in Equestria? Celestia always goes full Picard. It's in her origin story."

Once again, I agree that being the Princess, she would see this as a necessary measure. That doesn't mean she's going to feel good about doing it. If I had no choice but to kill someone in self defense, I don't think I'd blame myself for it, but I wouldn't feel happy inside about killing someone either.

"Then why did I have to read an entire chapter about Nyx thinking about Diamond Dogs?"

In my OPINION, (read: I'm not the author so this is my interpretation) It showed us she was still gaining curiosity about things like she did before transforming giving us a sign that at least some part of her was still Nyx.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the section about Diamond Dogs was only a section of the chapter where she talks with one of their messengers. The rest of the chapter is spent exploring the setting of her new castle's interior.

"Because it's the majority. There's no room for tension to build because you're always in Nyx's head. If the story continued liked in had from chapter two, with everything from Twilight's POV, the reader would question whether Nyx really was NMM. As it is, it's obvious from the get-go that she's not."

Yes, that is one way this story could have gone. The story took a different route and went the way of developing the thoughts going through Nyx's head so that the reader had an easier time seeing how conflicted she was. The big tension was built more from Nyx having such a hard time believing she could be her own pony and her attempts of acting the bad guy when she was clearly having a hard time doing so. A valid story choice deciding to build on character instead of suspense.

If the author went the way of having the reader second guess whether or not Nyx was becoming more like NMM, then they would have spent more time building tension showing all of her actions through other ponies eyes giving their own perspectives on Nyx's actions. I actually think this would have been an interesting way for the story to go. This is another valid way to tell the story, this one just becomes more dependent on the tale of her actions and the character building of other ponies.

Either way, they're still commendable story ideas. Just two different kinds. If you were to do both the only reason it wouldn't fall completely flat is because the building of the other characters views of her would bring a little more insight as to how much her actions were affecting ponies other than her. If it wasn't for that, it'd just give too much away to give the reader any reason to suspect Nyx to be truly evil. (Yes, I know this is pretty much what you said, but you made it seem more like his way of writing didn't have any merit.)

If you've made it this far into my rant, I commend and thank you for reading this far. If you've noticed I haven't talked about her being a Mary-Sue so far. That is because after looking back, in many ways she was a Mary-Sue. However, that doesn't instantly make her a bad character. Many stories have main characters who are at least to some extent a Mary-Sue/Gary-Stu and that doesn't keep them from being likable to many. (Refrained from listing them, I'm sure you can come up with some, due to the already large amount of space this is taking) In Nyx's case, I found her to be adorable in many cases even though she was a crybaby and her conflict between being good and bad kept me on my toes (if not to question whether she was going to be good or bad, simply because the things she had to go through and do were tough and could have ended badly)
zeyro
#450318
10 months ago
*Sigh*
Double Post because I forgot to put @Hex-Master
ChiefRampancy
#450328
10 months ago
AND THEN THERE WAS WAR IN THE COMMENTS SECTION
Hex-Master
#453747
10 months ago
@zeyro
I WAS talking about appearance, so you can stop repeating that "contradiction" shlock.

The real problem with Nyx's characterization (ignoring how completely perfect she is) is the lack of any emotional build-up concerning her turn. I think all of my issues with the story could really be solved by taking out what I consider the worst element of the story: Celestia being too dumb to live.

If Celestia took the child away to test if it was Nightmare Moon, but DIDN'T immediately catch a bad case of the dumb, she could safely determine that Nyx wasn't Nightmare Moon. But then, when Nyx is returned to Twilight, she instantly becomes reclusive and introverted because her mother was willing to sacrifice her like that. Over time, she becomes more angry and hateful, seeing everyone as against her, drawn towards darker emotions. Then SHE actively seeks out the cultists to turn herself into Nightmare Moon.

The major problem with Pen Stroke is the guy has no sense of build-up. He throws plot points out at random moments with no dramatic pacing. And as a result, Nyx doesn't have any strong characterization or development and is pretty much just a bland Mary-Sue.

And yeah, I'm dropping this "shot-by-shot" bull. This was a bad idea to begin with.
zeyro
#453795
10 months ago
@Hex-Master
Fair enough. I just wanted to make sure to cover my bases so that it could be solved without a constant back and forth simply about the clone section.

I agree that there are problems with parts of Nyx's characterization in the fact that she doesn't have much to stand out from any other character from a game/movie/show and has her fair share of Mary-Sue moments. I personally don't mind that, but I see where you're coming from.

I can also agree that Celestia making that many mistakes in a short amount of time makes her seem really oblivious. I actually think your version of the story would be pretty interesting.

To me, he didn't really throw out plot points at random, but he didn't do much to keep the story moving at a steady pace and dragged on in certain parts attempting to drive home certain points and ended up repeating a lot of the internal dialogue.

All in all I agree that there are definitely flaws in his writing, but I do give him credit for at least trying to fix some of them (Although I did notice an awful lot of typos in there). I enjoyed Past Sins, but I don't put it on such a high pedestal that others do.

As for Nyx herself, I like her simply because to me she's adorable. Kind of how I like Fluttershy because she's adorable, but that's about all I like about her.
Anonymous
#1038212
4 months ago
Fuck Nyx