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From: OlgaKnagina
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 6 Aug 2001 11:59 PM
Two positive comments. Gee! We're limited to two? That sounds unfair. :-(
First, even though the reader might wish to have read the introduction to the two characters that undoubtedly occurs in chapter one, this is a self-contained episode.
Second, as developed in the chapter, here are two characters that the reader wants to know more about beyond the mere movement of body parts. I would be looking forward to read the rest of the novel. Descriptions evolve naturally in the course of the narrative.
Two things to improve. Hmmm! Perhaps some physical indication of the end of the chapter so that I don't keep desperately hitting the scroll button looking for more of this story. :-)
First, on the way to the restaurant, it seems a little incongruous for Lydia to simply smile and bat her lashes. It would not be difficult, however, to understand that the narrator only notices her smiles and lash batting.
Second, Lydia's immediate statement, "I don't fuck on the first date," requires a suspension of disbelief on the part of an older reader. I hope that we find out in a subsequent chapter why she is so "forward." But, it is so nestled in a charming story that this isn't a big speed bump.
From: sharx35
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 7 Aug 2001 12:46 AM
I echo Desdmona22's comments. I got as hard as Robert from reading this work.
From: Uther Pendragon
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 7 Aug 2001 2:48 AM
Is "Wow" a positive comment? Probably not, doesn't tell the author *what* was good. Even so, this fragment -- as it stands -- works for me for a turn-on. Not a satisfactory story, of course, but it's not supposed to be.
I like being right in the guy's head. I see what he sees, imagines what he imagines. Lydia doesn't have 32D breasts, she has breasts with soft, silky, skin.
I like the tension. One big problem of erotic fiction is "what do you do after their first time?"
This whole paragraph doesn't work.
She rolls out of bed. Unlike most women, I notice, Lydia is comfortable naked. She walks about picking her clothes off the floor. "Bathroom?" she points towards the bathroom door. With the bundle in her arms, she opens the door and in a moment, the spray of the shower starts.
First, he can notice that Lydia is comforable naked. But can he notice that most women aren't? And who is asking about the bathroom and why. Shouldn't he point out the bathroom door?
You pick up a girl at her apartment, drive her from the restaurant to your apartment in your car, and have the best sex of your life. Then you let her leave by herself??????? She doesn't live in your building. You don't even call her a cab or flag one down for her.
From: Shon Richards
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 8 Aug 2001 9:05 AM
Ok, first of all, you get a free Wow that is outside the two compliments.
I always enjoy it when the zipper can't be released. Real, passionate sex always has a fuck-up because the partners are too exicted to undress properly. Some writers realize this, but they go over board and end up making it too funny. I liked how Ivan had the small problem with the pants, and moved on. It gave the story a touch of realism without killing the sexual tension.
I really liked how in the beginning, he was having dirty thoughts while she was in the bathroom. That really took me back 10 years, remembering the fluttering I would feel at the thought of a woman being naked within a mile of me. The fact that you recalled that memory so intensely for me, makes me realize how well written it was.
Negatives?
I understand this is a second chapter of a long book, but I don't see why she is attracted to him. I mean, he worships her locket, her body and her personality, but I didn't see why she liked him. Because there wasn't anything in particular she admired that the reader knows of, I'm forced to conclude she's easy :)
"This is a woman I need to fuck!" just seemed a bit crude to me. It made me go back and read from the beginning to see why Robert was there. He reminded me of a teenager, desperate to sink into her. In short, I thought the comment cheapened Robert.
I like this fishtank idea, and I want to thank Ivan for being so brave to start it.
From: Nick
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 8 Aug 2001 6:10 PM
Positive comments:
The beginning of the chapter builds up very well. We do not have to go straight into the 'Wham Bam.. etc', rather we are introduced gently to the female character, and we get to know her as a person. At the same time the sexual tension is gently increased, so the out and out pervs remain hooked - or at least should do.
As the dialogue develops, the idea of the conversation they are having in such a public place is very powerful, and you can see how it contributes to the tension as it starts to build in the narrator. He might want to jump across the table and ravish her, but imagine what the neighbours would say!
Improvements:
I was warned by a 17 yr old girl about the over-use of shriek marks (!s). She was quite right. Except as part of dialogue, they are generally unnecessary.
use of the present tense is fine in this piece, but for a novel length, I think it would be a little wearing.
Hope this helps
Nick
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 8 Aug 2001 8:23 PM
Cheers to Desdmona for her use of the newsgroup and to Poison Ivan for daring to be first, and a good outing it is. Lydia is an erotic creature whom I want to read more about, and she has a nasty tongue too: the dialogue is sharp and sexy.
For me, there are too many exclamations, which probably sounds like "too many notes" from "Amadeus," but they can detract from the narrative voice if overused, and this is something I have to work on with my own writing. Paragraphs like "This is a woman I need to fuck!" jar me outside of the character's voice--we understand that the narrator is excited, but you don't want him to come off like a Tide commercial. So I guess my second improvement is to work on consistency in tone.
Can't wait to read more about Lydia. In fact, if you two ever stop seeing each other for some reason or another, just remember your old pal
Cain
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 9 Aug 2001 12:12 AM
Sorry it's taken me so long to get any comments in.
I liked the way Lydia fed him cheesecake from her fork. A charmingly shared meal can be more sensuous than the sex itself. You were so close to showing us the playful erotic side to her (as opposed to the blatently sexual side of her she showed during her conversation), I'd love to have seen more of it.
Robert has some great mental one-liners. For example, I was struck with the short passage, "in fact, I think I could say yes, I know what Lydia likes to do. Perhaps not in the minute details, but I am fully aware of the kinds of things Lydia likes."
Lydia's monologue about masturbation is a bit long winded. For some reason it reads as though she's talking at the top of her voice to a group of people rather than quietly to her dinner partner (that could be a function of the exclamation points). Perhaps if you broke it up with some description or how he watched her eyes glaze as she recounts the blissful feeling of being "felt up," or how the exposed skin of her cleavage flushes as she recounts the intensity of "going straight for her clit," or how they sparkle when she recounts marching up to the counter to ask for a vibrator.
In many places, her dialogue and his thoughts are a bit unnatural; for example: "They are beautiful," rather than "They're beautiful." and "I am so distracted," rather "I'm so distracted." People think and talk in contractions, and especially in a first person written story, the lack of natural rhythm can be jarring.
His internal dialogue is very well done in this story, and you've done a good job of making Lydia a Sharon Stone/Basic Instinct tease.
Alexis
(Okay, I'm trying hard to keep from asking where her tattoo is.... Lydia, oh Lydia, oh have you met Lydia?)
From: Uther Pendragon
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 10 Aug 2001 7:52 PM
Okay. I don't get two hacks at the story. But I think I should be allowed to rewrite this cryptic comment:
I like the tension. One big problem of erotic fiction is "what do you do after their first time?"
We are in chapter TWO. They have had a hot session of petting. The tension is great. The sex lies heavy over the entire description.
(In contrast to this story are the ones which start with a bang. -- Pun? from Uther? you must be imagining it. -- Then the author tries to escalate and fails.)
From: Poison Ivan
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 11 Aug 2001 2:11 AM
Thank you, everyone! Some people thanked me for being brave enough to post something first, but I think it's the commentators who deserve all the credit. All I had to do is sit back and watch.
If there are people out there who still want to comment, please do so.
First of all, I think I can address a few concerns by giving a little background. I decided not to post the first chapter of this story because it contained no sex whatsoever, and I didn't want to bore people right out of the gate. The title of the novel is "The Womanizer."
The first chapter and the first half of the second chapter is spent getting Robert's view on women and sex, and a little of it is about Robert's first liaison with Lydia. I hope some of the concerns about things being jarring - Olga's "I don't fuck on the first date" and (especially) Shon's and PleaseCain's "This is a woman I need to fuck!" - would seem smoother in context. I think they should still be toned down a little, but not as much as you'd think.
Alexis thought Lydia's monologue on masturbation was long winded. Alexis couldn't possibly know this, but Lydia's ability to talk non-stop is what really attracts Robert (he comes right out and says this in chapter 1). If you thought Lydia was running on and on, then that is the effect I was going for.
Desdmona said she didn't like the term "jerking off" as Lydia used it. I agree and will come up with something else. I'm thinking of using "twirling off."
Olga said she didn't like the trip to the restaurant. I confess, I was just rushing through that part, trying to move them from her apartment to the restaurant as quickly as possible. Yes, those paragraphs are in desperate need an overhaul.
Uther, well, what can I say? When it was all over, I dumped Lydia on the street with no way to get home. I am devastated! Not only was it a real gaff, but now I have to toss some stuff I really like to fix it. Uther also pointed out an awkward stretch towards the end of the chapter, which I will attempt to smooth out.
Nick and PleaseCain both mentioned the overuse of exclamation marks. Funny they should say this, because when I first wrote it, I had a lot of them. Then I rewrote and took most of them out. And then I went back and put most of them back in. Obviously I need to tilt back the other direction more.
And now for the controversial comments.
Desdmona noticed that Robert almost never talks. I had not noticed this myself, but in looking over a couple other chapters, I see that he doesn't quote himself much anywhere in the story. I probably did this sub-consciously because I want Robert to be a listener. Unless people think it is a major distraction, I am inclined to leave it as it is. What do you all think?
Nick was concerned about a novel-length story told in present tense. Normally, I would agree, but Robert will spend a good deal of this story philosophizing and talking about things that happened in the past, which lets me break up the present tense a lot. But it's something I need to keep an eye on, if it gets out of hand.
And last, Alexis thought Robert's internal dialogue sounded unnatural at times. I know exactly what she means, but I would like to leave it as a bit of a personality quirk. The too formal language of his internal thoughts will be useful when he digresses into philophical mumbo-jumbo.
There is one comment by Shon that I don't really have an answer to. Robert is a womanizer, and he gets a lot of women. But what do women see in Robert? I know what *I* think makes him attractive, but do I show this effectively? I honestly don't know.
As for the positive comments, well, I agree with every one of them <grin>.
I have some rewriting ahead of me. I do have a question for the group, however. Next time my turn comes around (in a month or two?), what would people like to see? A rewrite of this? The earlier chapter? Or something else?
Oh, before I forget, I do have one complaint: there are far too many Groucho fans in this group.
Thanks again, everyone.
From: OlgaKnagina
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 11 Aug 2001 07:59:02 GMT
Won't you have to let us see chapter 1 so that we can give you our assessment of why a woman might find Robert attractive?
Could you also tell us what you think makes him attractive?
From: dennyw
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 03:03:09
Desdmona said she didn't like the term "jerking off" as Lydia used it. I agree and will come up with something else. I'm thinking of using "twirling off."
I've seen 'jilling off' used.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 08:39:16
Yes, but not everyone does that too. Jacking off can work, as can, in general (depending on the woman) most of the phrases males use. But not all women will use those.
So, what others to try? Playing with myself, getting myself off, diddling, petting, fingering, lots of less overt things. However, jacking and jerking off can be an OK term for a women telling a man what she's doing.
But again, it has to fit their character. They may not use it when thinking, or when telling another woman what they were doing. It is something which she'd expect the guy to understand, no need to translate for female anatomy.
I'm sure that someone has got a nice list of useful terms for this activity, but finding the right one for each character can be tricky.
From: Gary Jordan
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 11 Aug 2001 14:15:56 GMT
I *knew* this link would "come in handy" some day
My comments about the first submission to the Fish Tank were covered by others - I'm glad I can at least make this contribution.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:41:13 -0600
Thanks. I've also seen (and the page points out) similar terms for malse. Most of them, though, aren't used as regular common expressions, just something you might use as a clever euphemism for the activity. OTOH, nothing wrong with that. People tend to avoid blunt language often when talking about such things, so clever, humorous versions can be effective. They spice up stories too.
From: Shon Richards
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 12:43:48 GMT
I've found that when I'm talking to a woman, I pay a lot of attention to what they are paying attention too. I notice them glance at my legs, or stealing glances at my eyes, stuff like that. That might help explain Lydia's physical attraction, those not-so-carefully-hidden-stolen-glances.
Another thing might be conversation. Some topics light people's eyes. Perhaps if you had a moment where Lydia gives away a physical clue during a topic, it might help make the reader understand that she is hot-to-trot for him to.
Did I just say hot-to-trot? Can you really take advice from a man who says this?
And I love the fishtank. It's the only thread in assd that's about writing right now.
From: Anne747
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 11 Aug 2001 19:31:09 GMT
Things I liked:
1) Very hot, the build up is good - I think the readers would be disappointed if there wasn't some action
2) Even though it's tough to do, the present tense works here
Okay, minor nitpicks (I think all probably have been covered):
- sometimes the wording is awkward
I am sure I blush; We eat and drink wine and I tell her a few jokes and she laughs.
There were a few other examples, but I've lost them when looking back. Sometimes I'll read something out loud to pick these out. (and they are easier to find in someone else's work)
- I can't figure out why she's dating Robert.
I did see your comments about a first chapter, perhaps he impresses her in it.
- addressing the 'jerk off' comment someone else raised.
When I'm with a man, I like to be touched different than when I jerk myself off.
Personally I'd avoid any 'buzz' word here. You could change:
"when I jerk myself off" to "when I'm by myself"
The reader (and Robert) already know that she's talking about masturbation. You could just used 'get' instead of 'jerk' if you prefer. The link to women's terms for masturbation are good for a smile and a joke, but I can't imagine using them.
And perhaps an editor (which I'm not) can look at the sentence in general - wouldn't you use differently instead?
From: Always Horny
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 14:34:13 +0200
The major overall positive comment is that this story is very well written. It kept dragging me back in, even though I was getting thrown out all the time (more later). So, very well done.
I like the unusual vocabulary. It's different, refreshing, and it makes the story more personal. The risk of course is that a few times a word was _too_ offbeat for me and threw me out, but could well be just me and being ESL.
The one thing that kept throwing me out all the time is the constant use of present tense for the verbs ("false present" if I understood Uther's Writing Choices post properly) which does not work for me at all. The present plus the 1st person PoV plus the rythm of sentences kept making me expect some fast paced action or some dramatic event. But the guy is only ringing at the door. To improve I'd try to use less immediacy in the non-crucial parts of the story. (Having said that I was always thrown out by the immediacy, I was also always drawn back in too. And that could well be due to the immediacy... IDK)
Immediacy, I mean things like the present plus the number of commas f.ex in this paragraph:
"They are beautiful," she beams. She is not dressed yet, and she is prancing around in a short, colorful, silk robe. Her feet and legs are bare, and the way her body jiggles, I imagine she is naked under the robe.
I would have removed some commas and f.ex have her only in "a short and colorful silk robe." I'd keep the commas for when the paras are about to storm the building. YMMV.
An other bit that I disliked is "...look of a woman who wants to surrender". This "surrender" threw me back to men conquering and women surrendering which is not at all how I view the relationship. Just call me a fanatic feminist or something... I'd try to avoid risking to give that MCP impression and use something with fewer overtones. Maybe "of a woman overcome with desire". Ofc this type of sensitiveness certainly depends a lot on your target public.
Overall this was a story that compelled me to read it to the end. You must be doing something right.
Thanks for being the first volunteer.
From: Poison Ivan
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:41:26 -0400
Hi, Shon,
I think I may have been confused, so I'd better ask for a clarification. When you wondered why Lydia was attracted to Robert, I thought it was a more a "why would Lydia date a clown like Robert in the first place" question. But maybe you were really asking, "Why would Lydia bother to go to bed with this guy after this particular date?"
I guess to answer the second question, I would say Lydia came into the date *expecting* things to progress pretty far, although maybe not quite as far as it did.
I think having her expect this much puts a lot of pressure on making Robert generally attractive to women, which is what I'm not sure I've done.
Or am I still mis-reading?
From: Poison Ivan
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 19:04:49 -0400
There were a couple people whose comments I did not reply to in my first post. I completely missed Always Horny's post (sorry, AH!), and Anne came in late.
Anne and AH both noticed the same awkward wording that Alexis mentioned. What do people think? Is his style of talking *too* awkward? I hope it is just quirky enough to be interesting, but if it's too weird, it will just be annoying.
I really liked Anne's suggestion about the masturbation terminology ("when I'm by myself ...") It just rings real in my ears. As for "different" versus "differently" - strictly speaking, yes, although in this particular case it's dialogue, so you'd normally cut the character a lot of slack. I might change it anyway.
Always Horny complained about the present tense. I think this is potentially a real problem with this story, but I hope I can pull it off. He also made a nice suggestion to improve the silk robe bit. His version definitely read smoother to my ears.
AH also disliked the "look of a woman who wants to surrender" because it brought to mind conquering males. I am afraid my biases may not let me see this one clearly, because it doesn't bring those connotations to me. What do other people think? When you first read the surrendering bit, did you think Robert was conquering Lydia?
Thanks again to all the critquers out there!
From: Poison Ivan
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 18:29:12 -0400
OlgaKnagina wrote ...
Won't you have to let us see chapter 1 so that we can give you our assessment of why a woman might find Robert attractive?
I could, but since it's a little long (another 4000 words), I should hold off until later. If anyone is particularly interested, I could send Chapter 1 privately.
I'm not sure Chapter 1 will completely answer the question, anyway. It's one of those things that has to be revealed over time, when spoken by a first person narrator.
Could you also tell us what you think makes him attractive?
But that would be cheating :-)
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 11 Aug 2001 23:14:27 GMT
I have some rewriting ahead of me. I do have a question for the group, however. Next time my turn comes around (in a month or two?), what would people like to see? A rewrite of this? The earlier chapter? Or something else?
Whatever you are working on when the time comes, Ivan. I would like to see the revised version of this Chapter 2, but I find with my own editing that, unless on deadline, sometimes I need to distance myself from the story and digest the newer ideas and changes.
I'm so tempted to comment that I would never join any Fish Tank that would ... never mind.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:46:18 -0600
I thought about responding more, but not seeing the original story post for a week made it hard to just jump in.
Anne and AH both noticed the same awkward wording that Alexis mentioned. What do people think? Is his style of talking *too* awkward? I hope it is just quirky enough to be interesting, but if it's too weird, it will just be annoying.
Some people honestly don't use contractions much in speech. Perhaps he doesn't use them when he's nervous? OTOH, I've a tendency (which I've worked on a lot) to not use contractions when writing (formal report work and such should not use them excessively). I can even talk like that, some of the time. So you need to decide whether it is the kind of quirk which would stick with him all the time, or if it is just something he does on occasion, for some reason. Surely, Lydia (and other friends) might tell him to loosen up if he kept it up even in intimate conversation.
I really liked Anne's suggestion about the masturbation terminology ("when I'm by myself ...") It just rings real in my ears. As for "different" versus "differently" - strictly speaking, yes, although in this particular case it's dialogue, so you'd normally cut the character a lot of slack. I might change it anyway.
It does fit in nicely. The more direct terms work better when you know that the person will accept them as normal, not something impolite. As for adverb vs. adjectives in dialog, sometimes, the characters don't speak grammatically. While I do end up fixing some of that anyway, simply because it is a habit to make corrections, it is worth considering leaving them in. As long as it has consistency, at least. Heck, politicians make major grammatical errors in speeches with regularity. Why should characters in a sexy situation keep perfect grammar?
Always Horny complained about the present tense. I think this is potentially a real problem with this story, but I hope I can pull it off.
Present tense does make a story sound "off" when we know the events happened in the past. It is a "false present," and yet it does fit how some people think of stories internally, and when they tell them to others. It is survivable, though not easy to make work smoothly.
From: Shon Richards
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 03:40:02 GMT
When you wondered why Lydia was attracted to Robert, I thought it was a more a "why would Lydia date a clown like Robert in the first place" question. But maybe you were really asking, "Why would Lydia bother to go to bed with this guy after this particular date?"
The "why did she sleep with him that night" thing :) Don't take that question of mine too seriously. I am notorious for not knowing when women are attracted to me or others, so I could just be dense on that topic. :)
From: Mat Twassel
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 12 Aug 2001 14:47:57 GMT
Sorry I didn't hear the whistle. (On vacation!)
I enjoyed the chapter. If I were in a bookstore and happened to pick up this book and read this chapter, I'm almost certain (make that I'm positive) I would buy the book. There! One positive comment. Is that helpful to anyone? I'm not sure. For good writers like Poison Ivan, I'm not sure positive comments are helpful. On the other hand if it inspires Poison Ivan to finish the book and get it published, that would be good. Can that be positive comment number two? Finish the book and get it published.
It really difficult saying much meaninful about a part of a work, especially a part without the beginning, but here are a few things to think about. The sentence that intrigued me the most was the one about Lydia settling herself down on the couch that she'd fallen asleep on the week before. I'm not sure what this means. Probably I wouldn't be so interested in this sentence if I'd read the first chapter. The other thing that I found really interesting, strange, weird, quirky, is that Lydia just leaves at the end. I expect this will have interesting repercussions. I'm really interested to see what comes of this.
As for things to improve, my main concern is that first person present point of view is difficult to sustain for a whole book. It can easily become wearing. In fact, here I found the POV easier as the story went along, probably because this POV lends itself well to sex scenes.
I don't have anything against First Person Present POV--if nothing else it solves the "where to put the narrator" problem. But I get nervous when a narrator's "I's" aren't nearly transparent. I suggest that a lot of the action and the feelings in this story could be "deflected." Even if the point if the narration is the narrator, it comes across more "easily" if we see him indirectly, if we come to understand his feelings indirectly.
But maybe the idea here is to make the narrator blatant. Robert as both camera and little boy with a little boy's innocent selfishness. Anyway, I liked his voice. I really loved Lydia's. I wonder what the conflict will turn out to be.
Hm, I see there are 24 messages in this thread. No doubt everything I've said is an echo of someone else's comment. Sorry.
From: Anne747
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 12 Aug 2001 16:35:19 GMT
Anne and AH both noticed the same awkward wording that Alexis mentioned. What do people think? Is his style of talking *too* awkward? I hope it is just quirky enough to be interesting, but if it's too weird, it will just be annoying.
If it were dialogue I probably wouldn't have commented on it. It's the narrative - the feel is too formal. It's not annoying, just feels a little stilted to me. And it may have to do with the way people mentally 'talk' to themselves.
Me, I use:
don't, can't, I'll, etc.
ie. If I'm thinking about doing something on the way home I'm more likely to think:
"I'll go to.... " rather than "I will go to"
Hey, when it comes to grammar and syntax, I'm sure the second one is a better choice. So, I suppose it depends on what kind of feel you're going for. Is Robert a very formal person? Or is he more laid back and relaxed?
From: Anoninsac
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 12 Aug 2001 09:44:14 -0700
I missed the bell also :-(
Without repeating, I liked how you used many details to highten the sensuality (not sex) of the story. Lydia using the locket to attract Robert's attention to her breasts. Damn sneaky women, lol.
Liked it overall a lot.
Weaknesses, already mentioned by others. Would like to see 'the rest of the story.'
From: Uther Pendragon
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 05:27:36 GMT
Thanks. I've also seen (and the page points out) similar terms for males. Most of them, though, aren't used as regular common expressions, just something you might use as a clever euphemism for the activity. OTOH, nothing wrong with that. People tend to avoid blunt language often when talking about such things, so clever, humorous versions can be effective. They spice up stories too.
The first instance of this discussion was a conversation in a restaurant. We might remember that.
Generally, in that situation, reasonable people avoid language which would set bystanders ears aquiver. If I happened to hear someone talking about "taking care of myself," I would ignore the rest of the conversation. If I heard a woman mention "jacking off," I might be less restrained.
My spell checker didn't like "aquiver" up there. Among its suggestions was aquifer.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 10:46:57 -0600
The first instance of this discussion was a conversation in a restaurant. We might remember that.
Yes, I didn't see the story itself until after I posted. Even in more private places, it is natural to work into more explicit language for most of us. Jumping right in suggests the kind of personality which considers that natural, or else a desire to be deliberately "shocking." Either way, it says a lot about the person, and sets them up to followthrough with being unusual in that way.
Generally, in that situation, reasonable people avoid language which would set bystanders ears aquiver. If I happened to hear someone talking about "taking care of myself," I would ignore the rest of the conversation. If I heard a woman mention "jacking off," I might be less restrained.
Unless being deliberately shocking, such as some long elevator ride conversations I've had with friends. Still, that is something best done between two friends who know each other, and know what the underlying language and situations really mean to them. Not something you'd ordinarily drop into a conversation with a fairly new acquaintance, before you knew how they'd react. And whether they'd become upset for bringing it up in a public place where it *would* draw the attention of bystanders.
My spell checker didn't like "aquiver" up there. Among its suggestions was aquifer.
Strange -- I know the word, but I get the same result. OTOH, I overrule my spell checker often -- maybe in every story? -- on things other than just proper names it doesn't know.
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From: Desdmona
Re: The Womanizer, Chapter 2, by Poison Ivan
Date: 6 Aug 2001 11:43 PM
You have an uncanny way of using words. For instance when you say "...stir my imagination to a froth..." That jumped up at me. It was a perfect way for me to visualize just how crazy Robert is feeling.
I think you've done a marvelous job of letting us into Robert's head. Possibly because it's first person, but I think it's more than that, for example when Robert thinks he'd like his picture to be inside her locket... I think most men would have wanted to be the locket itself, or not thought of the locket at all. It gives me a glimpse of how Robert thinks and how important details are to him.
Couple of things:
1) I had trouble when Lydia is talking about masturbating. Because she uses the phrase, "jerking myself off," it made me think that Robert had interrupted. Do women really jerk off? or is that a masculine term"
2) Becasue we're so much into Robert's head, it seemed to me that he hardly talked at all, especially in the beginning.. Maybe he could have a couple more lines of dialogue so I don't feel like Lydia is talking to herself.
All in all... on the thermometer for HOT! This one blows the mercury off the scale. Would love to read more of it!!