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From: PleaseCain
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 29 Oct 2002 17:59:52 GMT
I always enjoy your humorous, lively voice, like when he tortures his wife while she reads to the daughter. Great, extra-audacious devil's costume, too, a guaranteed scene-stealer.
It's a fine story overall, but I agree that the ending needs to be bolstered: it seems that the women jump too suddenly from animosity to loving, and only out of sheer boredom. If only boorish male conversation precipitated lesbian lovefests like this!
Also, the following sentence didn't say much to me (reword it?):
"The glass dildo-handle appeared magically under my fingers without conscious volition from me."
What a fun read - thanks!
Cain
From: Bradley Stoke
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 30 Oct 2002 13:03:33 -0800
Father Ignatius
As I was reading, I was thinking that this story didn't feel like one that was written in a hurry in a three hour writing duel, until, of course, I got to the rather abrupt end. A bit of a disappointment I'm afraid, made the worse by the quality of the story prior to this point.
This story comes in three parts. The first part in which the scene was set was pretty good, although there was a slight feeling of desperation in linking the present of a "clingon" with Vikki's attitudes. I think we needed more of Vikki at this stage. The second part of doling out the birthday presents was very nice. I liked the little girl, Jodie, and that curious mixture of precocity and innocence common to all children. I liked the central scene of reading Dr Seuss while suppressing an orgasm. That was naughty but nice. But the third part should either have been ditched altogether or made rather stronger. The narrator didn't seem at all like the sort who would indulge in threesomes until that stage. And Carol most certainly hadn't.
It's easy to point out the good things. The birthday present scene was well paced, amusing and quite convincing. The characterisation of Jodie and Carol was done well. They read like real people and ones rather lovingly drawn. Although it's not something I could ever do, I always get a warm feeling when male writers like you and Uther Pendragon incorporate these character studies of their loved ones. It nicely contrasts with all those stories where the female objects of desire have less character than a speaking clock.
There are a few things that could be improved, but on the whole I think what most needs to happen is to beef up the final party scene. Or to drop it altogether. As I don't often go to Halloween parties where women have glass penises sticking out at the front, I actually wanted to hear more. So, perhaps the story could be extended dramatically to incorporate a more realistic portrayal of this kinky Halloween party. I would also do something about Carol's invitation for her husband to join in the fun. It's either in character and her character needs changing. Or it's out of character and there's some evidence that the time she's spent with Vikki hasn't just been straight down to business. And personally I'm never very sure about bedroom encounters ending up in conjugal threesomes. It's a common enough theme in sex fiction, but whenever something similar has happened to me a happy ending is quite simply not the result.
But overall I rather enjoyed this story. The good father has blessed us all!
Bradley Stoke
http://www.asstr.org/~Bradley_Stoke
From: Conjugate
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 22:56:01 -0700
"Desdmona22" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
**I posted this twice yesterday, but it never showed up here, or on Google, so please forgive me if you get it more that once. ************************************************************************
The following story was part of a Writer's Duel from 2000. It is 3,300 words in length. Although it is a complete story, the author seeks to improve it. He says it best in his own words:
I wrote "The Trouble with Penises" in October 2000 in three hours as a Write Club duel with Jimmy Hat, referee'd by DrSpin. It lives at
http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/The_Trouble_with_Penises.html
where you can find an illustration of a clingon and more details about the challenge words.
I ran out of time worse than I ever did in any other Write Club duel I can remember. The occasional reader mail I still get about it that tends to be lukewarm, and say, "It ended too suddenly and I'd like to hear more." I'm not happy with the story. It's far from my best, and I don't have any particular inspiration for re-working it.
So my question to Fish Tank viewers is, "Should I simply withdraw the story, discard it and move on, or should I try to bring it up to standard? If so, how?"
Well, I don't like either the withdrawal, or the discarding. (Though I do like the story, re-reading it now. Don't remember how I felt about it at the time.) But that leaves me stuck with the need to give some kind of advice about bringing it up to standard. Carry the story on a little longer; perhaps the viewpoint character becomes jealous? Vicki and Carol get, let us say, used to one another's company? Possibilities abound.
Conjugate
still pondering
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 31 Oct 2002 08:43:55 GMT
Well, first of all, no. You can't ditch the story completely. You're not allowed to dump anything that contains the phrase, "Happy Birthday, Lex."
Second, you're right. This isn't your best story by far. For anyone interested (and you all should be) I can tell you that Nat's best story ever is going to show up in the Song Fest. His Very Best Ever story. An "oh my goodness I have to read that part again" story. But I digress.
There is a lot worth saving here. The big points have been addressed already, and they were pretty obvious to everyone, I think. Three sections, strong middle, weak beginning, dump the ending completely.
As much as I like the first sentence, it's not really part of this story. Vicki isn't part of this story. There's a good story there about Vickie and Carol and the narrator and the conflict between the three of them, but it needs to be pulled out of this one and written separately. For "Trouble" I'd recommend you stick with the birthday present and the bedroom interlude and make it a nice little married couple piece. So let's focus on that section only.
I'd re-title the piece "Gentleman's Prerogative." It's the best part of that section. Since we're getting rid of the Vickie/Carol/man hating thing, the rest is going to be pretty picky. You're very good with your "turn of phrase," it's one of the hallmarks of anything you write. But there are times when you're a bit too clever for the story and it stand out. Fex - "The glass dildo-handle appeared magically under my fingers without conscious volition from me." This would read better if you ended it at "fingers," the rest is too cute. Ditto here: This also happens to make them dishwasher-proof, by the way. I know you wanted me to share that." End it at "dishwasher proof." The rest is too cute.
"Gabbled" is a good word, a great word, for what Carol's doing - IF you used it once instead of twice in the space of a few sentences.
There were parts that I laughed out loud at. This I loved -
"I stand before the world and attest that greater love hath no husband than he who shall measure his wife up for an individually hand-crafted Pyrex clingon without spoiling the surprise. Never in the history of human relations can the phrase "Nothing, dear, never mind" have been more abused."
Excellent.
My only other point, and I suspect that some people will disagree with me on this one, is that as delightful as Jodie is during the "reading to" part, the rest of her is written as someone who remembers being 7. She's too young to go make coffee for her parents, and I think that her "fooling around again" dialogue is too much, even for a seven-going-on-seventeen-year-old. There are other ways to get her out of the room for a bit.
The rest is, basically, proofreading, and I won't harp on it. You're a smart man, you'll get someone to find the proofing errors for you when you rewrite this. And you should. You should also write something about the Carol-Vickie-Narrator triangle. But as a different story.
And, am I the only one who is going to comment that "Fish Tank #69" seems to have been mistitled?
Alexis
From: oosh
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 16:13:56 +0000 (UTC)
[email protected] (Alexis Siefert) wrote in news:[email protected]:
(everything that had occurred to me ...)
I completely agree with Alexis's comments. There's nothing I could usefully add!
O.
From: Selena Jardine
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 31 Oct 2002 10:06:12 -0800
[email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
So my question to Fish Tank viewers is, "Should I simply withdraw the story, discard it and move on, or should I try to bring it up to standard? If so, how?"
FishTank Guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
"The Trouble With Penises" bears out Father Nat's dictum that Write Club at its best will provide the author with an excellent first draft, fit for revising. The answer to your first question, I think, is that this is a very good first draft, and if you have some affection for it left, you ought not to discard it. I think it would reward re-working for both author and reader.
Most of the people who have made their comments so far have come at it from the point of view that you ought simply to rid yourself of the first and last sections of the story, and concentrate on the middle section - the romantic gift-giving. Alexis has presented that option beautifully, and that would be one excellent, Occam's-Razor-like way to go about it.
I, on the other hand, would like to present the alternative notion that you might add to the beginning section (beefing up the discomfort between Carol and Vicki, possibly having Vicki show up at the wedding to put Carol into her gown or sim.), trim the middle section so we get less Pyrex- and Seuss-related detail, and ker-pow! pushing hard on getting dressed for the party and the action at the party itself. Then I believe you could have a) Vicki's approach and Carol's triumphant rejection and taking the narrator home to bed; b) Vicki's approach and Carol's triumphant acceptance and a scene on the floor there; or c) innuendo-filled conversation and the narrator thereafter sending Vicki out and taking Carol right there on the floor (or couch, or whatever.) (Whoever it was - Bradley? - who said that the narrator did not seem the sort for a threesome was quite correct.)
In other words, both my first positive comment and thing-to-improve here is that you have two terrific stories running at once. You must decide which you like best. The lovely husband-and-wife-clingon-in-bed-humorous story? Or the you-ought-to-have-given-Vicki-up-first story? If you write the latter, you must trim the former, especially in tone, and vice versa. But either is well within your powers.
My second positive comment is that your eye for family detail is lovely. I particularly like the appalled "What the fuck is this?" query from the wife expecting a pearl necklace and getting God-knows-what. It made me laugh out loud. It felt effortless. It's perfect.
My second thing to improve is really only a question. Why indeed did the narrator want the handle of the clingon to be in the shape of an erect penis? He never says, and we never find out. If he was hoping to manipulate it himself, as he does in the story, it seems an interesting choice. If he wasn't ... well ... what was he hoping? It fits so nicely with the devil's costume, I know, I know, but you don't want that to be the only motivation. We never want to have to whisper the word "contrived".
Thanks for tanking it, Father. A good time was had by all.
Ever your own adoring
Selena
[email protected]
********************************************* An Alexis's Birthday/Halloween Fish Tank story. Happy Birthday, Lex!
Yes indeedy do!
From: john
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 31 Oct 2002 21:11:48 -0800
Write club? I can't tell you how impressed I am that this was written in 3 hours, or even, if you've stretched the truth, 3 days. Even with Divine intervention or inspiration, that's fast. It's good. Too good to chuck. Too good not to carve mercilessly into a gem.
Economy: There's lots of fat. If it was shorter, I think it would be better. For example paragraph #one: a 67 word paragraph which might be more attractively priced at 44. That's a 34% savings not counting G.S.T.
"The problem with penises," says Vicki, "is that most of them are attached to men." Not surprisingly, we never ended up in bed, in spite of years of flirting. Just friends. Especially after Carol and I got married. Regrets? For me, an unscratched itch.
For Carol? ..."
Rhythm: The catalogue description of the clingon (Are Trekies confused by this word? Is it yours to invent or is it a standard in the trade? Am I allowed to be stupid about this?) while stimulating, is long, especially for so early in the story. Essential information, I concede, but I think it really slows things down at a critical point. Some of it could be handled in dialogue with Carol later on. Or you could foreshadow Jodie by having her interrupt the ordering process with questions.
PED? : Do I want to say this? The "use" of Jodie was very effective. So effective that I asked myself why. In fact, I have "used" children, fictionally, in the same way. As have others (How could one forget Madison standing in the bedroom door? An arresting image.) You do it extremely well, tastefully, effectively, erotically. Yet the basis of arousal is (god, the cops will be into my computer if I'm wrong) is incest or paedophilia. Eh? Not a mention in the codes. Right, I think, because none of the characters are allowed to see it that way. But don't the reader and writer see it? Isn't that exactly why it's hot?
Synch or Swim or Football: You chose Synch!! A perfect symbol don'tchathink. Guys that shoot the bull about synchronized swimming really ought catch a break with chicks. I fear, like Vicki, that they only live in fiction. Well, done.
I confess, Father, that I enjoyed it greatly. I will do my penance cheerfully.
John
P.S. Now that I've read other comments. Yes, two stories? But I think the current title makes a valiant effort to tie it into one. It could be one for me ... with smoother transitions and a little tinkering.
From: Tesseract
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 31 Oct 2002 23:26:03 -0800
[email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
...
So my question to Fish Tank viewers is, "Should I simply withdraw the story, discard it and move on, or should I try to bring it up to standard? If so, how?"
An Alexis's Birthday/Halloween Fish Tank story. Happy Birthday, Lex!
The Trouble with Penises
FF toys <*>
(c) October 2000 Father Ignatius
Don't chuck it. It is a diamond in the rough. It needs some work but it already has some brilliant features.
Others have remarked that you should drop the last part. It is weak but rather than drop it how about beefing it up?
As Alexis suggests, change the title of the first part to "Gentleman's Prerogative." This allows you to use "The Trouble with Penises" as the title of a series or collection. The second entry could be the party.
I see the series stories all featuring the clingon (thanks for the link. I first thought of Star Trek also) which has three penises; two are occupied and the third is looking for an orifice. Could the narrator provide one in a future episode? This is a style question, but would each story require the same point of view, and the same voice? If not then we could follow the clingon on more varied exploits.
One thing you do want to keep is
"The problem with penises," says my fully-liberated, happily-divorced, man-eating friend Vicki, "is that most of them are attached to men."
and it has more effect if we read it before we are introduced to the clingon. You will have to use your genius to work it in. Maybe the first story could be without the clingon. It could even be light on the sex, but it would give an excuse to introduce Vicki.
So, Yes, keep it.
Tesseract
From: Desdmona
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sat, 2 Nov 2002 13:44:28 -0500
The Trouble with Penises
FF toys <*>
(c) October 2000 Father Ignatius
Nat~
The first time I read this story, I was uncomfortable. I kept dreading the moment that Jodie was going to be brought into the scene further. No the codes don't suggest this is going to happen, but in truth the codes are very misleading altogether. There's only one line that suggests FF:
"I found it in Vicki's bedroom where Carol was fucking her with the clingon."
I suppose this warrants a FF code, but hmm.
However, I'm not a stickler for codes anyway. My whole point here being that I didn't enjoy the first read because of the fear of the seven-year-old being part of the play.
On the second read, I knew the outcome so it was a much more enjoyable read. There's still a little uncomfortableness in the play going on while reading to the child. Probably because there's very little real hope that the daughter (precocious as she is especially) wouldn't realize there was something amiss under the blanket. The toy is Pyrex. There's very little give to glass. If the dildoed handle was sticking up and suddenly a leg was thrust over it, I would imagine pain would ensue. Can the toy be tilted to the side? Hmm. It doesn't look like it, (in the picture provided at the mentioned website) not without hips being turned as well. So now we have hand and toy directly beneath the covers and mom's hips moving. Maybe his knee could be propped up to allow the covers to tent beyond the action?
On the other hand, this scene is delicious in its reality. Any married couple with kids can probably attest to a time where sexual games were interrrupted. It's not like you can just turn off the juice once it starts flowing. In a zealous moment, you might go a bit too far for comfort. If it were my story, I might have been tempted to do more with dialogue. Teasing quips from him without actual hands-on play. The toy itself is devised to work without much manipulation. So masked innuendos here and there just to see mom squirm might have been a lot of fun.
When we move on to the party. I have more misgivings about Pyrex and long time wear. Sure, the idea - fabulous devil costume with toy inserted for the night - sounds hot, but imagine sitting, standing, pottying. Imagine breakage, OUCH! But this is fantasy so I'll forego all that.
I agree there seems to be two stories being told, but I don't think that particularly warrants separating it as such. If, in the beginning, you added a remembered scene between Vicki, Carol, and the narrator, there would be a better connection. Off the top of my head: maybe over drinks, toy discussion was brought up. It slips out (no pun intended) that once, as a gag gift, the narrator had given Vicki a toy. Carol is miffed. So voila! For her birthday, she gets the best. (Side what-if: the penis shaped handle is actually cast in the shape of the narrator.)
With more devotion, the party could be beefed up in length and quality. Witty repartee with a sardonic edge between Carol and Vicki could work wonders to setup the inevitable scene at the end. Even a little continuing of Seuss - Black fish, blue fish, old fish, NEW fish ... "This is as close as you'll get to my husband, darling!" thinks Carol.
I don't have that completely worked out in my head, but what I'm going for is the idea that in the end, Carol wins. As it stands, it seems to me that Vicki is still manipulating this couple. That makes this story about Vicki ...and if the story is about Vicki then the at home scene is out of place. But if the story is really to be about Carol, then Carol needs to come out on top (again, no pun intended) and the at home scene works because we get to know her character - she's a sexy mom and a hot tamale!
In the end, what I really think is this is just too good to toss. It has the potential to be many things; trashcan fodder is not one of them.
Hope this helps to get your imagination and typewriter/keyboard burning!
Des
Thanks Nat, for submitting!
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sat, 02 Nov 2002 15:18:13 -0600
On 29 Oct 2002 12:57:24 GMT, [email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote:
OK, a bit late adding comments, so I'll try to hit some quick things:
The ending seems too abrupt. The story is really two parts. The giving of the present, the reading play, and the thank-you bit in the bedroom completes that scene entirely. It uses two thirds of the story length or so, and is pretty good as is.
The party doesn't develop enough of what is going on. The ending is abrupt, and while the ending makes a nice shocking bit of humor, it is such a 170 degree turn that it feels odd. No hints at all that Carol might fancy Vicki too, rather than being jealous or bothered by her. The instant threesome seems rather too convenient, even with the great costume - I really like that devil outfit - to inspire things. That Vicki might be into it I could see, that Carol jumped into the game is unlikely but we don't see what happened during their conversation.
We don't know his response to the scene, except that the next day Vicki called him at work and made that useful (I should check the page out, probably required words there) funny comment at the end. There is a huge gap there. Too huge to take it as more than an opening for the punch line.
When Jodie comes into the bedroom, I see a mix of problems. They can all work out for the right family I'm sure, but as Jodie is old enough to make coffee, aware that her parents were "fooling around again," I can't see why the girl isn't mature enough to be asked to go away while Mommy and Daddy fool around some more. Mommy's birthday is also another thing; why is the girl jealous of the attention, rather than being most interested in giving Mommy a good birthday?
I know, different parents treat this situation differently. My parents wouldn't have handled the fooling around thing so much, nor would us kids have felt comfy just popping in on them. It happened sometimes anyway. I'm sure that I'd go with the "go away and let us play" request, knowing that the kids are aware that their parents have a sex life, it is a nice thing, and even if they don't understand it they know that we do it for fun and love. But because of that, I don't think we'd have tried for the reading and playing under the covers game. That was interesting, one of the best bits of the whole story. BTW, at no point did it seem to me like either parents nor child were going to get drawn into sex togther. Even if Jodie did notice the orgasm (kids can be quite observant), all she might ask for is a bit of sex ed talk.
The clingon toy was a fun idea. I think that both of them had to have the idea of using toys before, though that part wasn't mentioned. I just don't see a guy buying something like that as a first toy, especially not at the price.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Frank McCoy
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 22:20:30 -0600
[email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote:
1) 2 positive comments
1. LOL!
2. ROFL!
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
You're kidding, right?
Well ... OK
1. The separations in the story were a bit big and too distracting.
Use something a little more subtle.
2. A description of what the "clingon" looked like, might have been
helpful in visualizing the item. All I got was the front-part ... a
dildo made out of glass, that somehow fit into a woman backwards.
3) Try not to repeat!
Somehow (not having yet read the other comments) I don't think I did. Well OK, I did; in the "positive comments". Sorry about that. ;-}
/ ' / ™
,-/-, . __ /
(/ / ((/|/ / </ <
From: Altan
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2002 01:32:47 GMT
On 29 Oct 2002 12:57:24 GMT, [email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote:
FishTank Guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
It took me almost two weeks, but I finally caught up and read the FishTank story. Seems I'm not too late yet, since Father Nat hasn't responded. I'm afraid I can't be entrirely original in my responses anymore, but I'll try.
Positive comments: I liked the story. The opening sentence was great; it drew me in immediately and I never wanted to stop reading after that. And the "gentleman's prerogative" part was great.
But this brings me to the first suggested improvement: refer back to it later on. As it is, it contributes a little bit to the atmosphere but stands quite alone.
Also, I think Jodie's age slipped from seven to five somewhere. I know, it is a detail.
By the way, her comment of "You too have been fooling around again" sounded completely natural to me. It reminded me of the comment of our then eight-year-old son: "Oh, you're doing that again." Which he followed with a request to keep the noise down because he was trying to get some sleep ...
A.
http://www.asstr.org/~altan/
From: Father Ignatius
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 10 Nov 2002 13:23:11 -0800
Thank you to everyone who participated in this Fish Tank, especially for your kindness; and thanks, as usual, to Des for Fish Tank. Yes, it was written in three hours, go-to-whoa.
After thinking it through, the executive summary seems to be "Dump the Vicki character" [in the face of the formidable opposition of Des]. This seems pretty plausible: I won't be the first writer guilty of hanging onto a characters that I like, although it doesn't really work. So, Des, part of me wants Vicki to win. Perhaps I should suck it up, and ... can I do this? I believe that Charles Dickens hung grimly onto Mrs. Sairey Gamp, bless him (and her) but for the best of reasons (that she was working marvellously well). I can't see a way to fixing the relationship between Carol and Vicki, so I think I'll let it slide into oblivion (as the bishop said to the actress). If inspiration strikes, I may build a separate story some day, but my hopper is pregnant with more promising possibilities.
There was a pleasing coherence in the responses - not at all a common expereince on ASSD. "The middle part is best," said Mat, adverting to the Vicki-free domestic scenes. Yep, it's too much of a stretch, as PleaseCain pointed out, for the two prickly gals to get it quickly on out of sheer boredom. And threesomes are tough territory, anyway, especially for guys (I have a story about that but you'll have to get me drunk first). So it shall become "A Gentleman's Prerogative" (thanks, Lex and Tesseract), "a nice little married couple piece."
Which b-b-b-brings me onto Bradley, who c-c-c-compared me to Uther. Is this the end of an era? Or the beginning of one? Uther? Can we still talk? But, seriously, it's terrific to have one's characterisation complimented: thank you. I have recently re-visited the difficult-Hallowe'en-costume theme in "Justin and the Wicked Wiccan," now showing at www.ruthiesclub.com, so I think I'll let a re-work ot the Hallowe'en party slide.
For an extra dimension, as always, we turn to Selena Jardine. We now dither with resurrecting Vicki and Carol in an entirely different story. What a pleasure it is to have professional critics, bless them, especially with nice tits, bless them, loose about the Taverna, bless it! (Semantic note: I didn't mean loose professional critics. Or did I? Freudians please advise).
Why indeed did the narrator want the handle of the clingon to be in the shape of an erect penis? Well, he wanted it thus for the Hallowe'en costume, which he always thought was a trific idea, and still does. What a damn' pity he never came up with a convincing motivation for it, nor still can.
F-f-fat?! My prose? ;-) Shees, even in three hours, I can woffle. 'Kay, point taken, John, thank you, and, BTW, we've moved onto VAT now.
Well, I didn't invent "clingon" (the folks down at http://www.adulttoychest.com/ did, check out http://www.adulttoychest.com/store/ProdMVC-725x.hmx?UID=19628%2D970341671%2D31790&CID=&RID=) but "Klingon" is enough part of the language to legitimise it, IMHO.
Okay, Des, big chunks of Pyrex are very hardy indeed. At that price, they'd better be! Can we have a little willing-suspecnsion-of-disbelief here? Because, if not, I'm screwed and should start over. I was overwhelemd by the level of clinical detail that troubled you. I must see if I can find a way forward.
Jeff's input on the precocity of the kid has proved most thought-provoking. I think the unspoken, assumed deal on not sending her away is that it was someone's birthday, and no-one gets rejected on someone's birthday. That was the deal when I was a kid (and yes, it would have been nice to not-reject on regular days, but that is a whole 'nother saga, and not a light comedy, either).
Jodie's age ...? My Gawd, 10,000 readers and no-one noticed that before? I'll skin that editor of mine ...
Thank you, again, to everyone who responded.
Nat(just off to find out what a tamale is)
From: Sagittaria
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sun, 10 Nov 2002 22:26:10 -0000
[email protected] (Father Ignatius) wrote in news:[email protected]:
And threesomes are
tough territory, anyway, especially for guys (I have a story about that but you'll have to get me drunk first).
Father Nat, may I be the first to offer you a beverage of your choice?
- - >Sagittaria< - -
I've got cat class, and I've got cat style.
From: Tesseract
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 10 Nov 2002 20:00:09 -0800
[email protected] (Father Ignatius) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
Thank you to everyone who participated in this Fish Tank, especially for your kindness; and thanks, as usual, to Des for Fish Tank. Yes, it was written in three hours, go-to-whoa.
...
For an extra dimension, as always, we turn to Selena Jardine. We now dither with resurrecting Vicki and Carol in an entirely different story. What a pleasure it is to have professional critics, bless them, especially with nice tits, bless them, loose about the Taverna, bless it! (Semantic note: I didn't mean loose professional critics. Or did I? Freudians please advise).
Loose tits around the Taverna? Nice tits at that. What will they think of next?
Tesseract
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 10:39:52 -0600
On 10 Nov 2002 13:23:11 -0800, [email protected] (Father Ignatius) wrote:
Jeff's input on the precocity of the kid has proved most thought-provoking. I think the unspoken, assumed deal on not sending her away is that it was someone's birthday, and no-one gets rejected on someone's birthday. That was the deal when I was a kid (and yes, it would have been nice to not-reject on regular days, but that is a whole 'nother saga, and not a light comedy, either).
Like I said, there are lots of ways to handle it, and all could have perfectly happy results. Even with cooperative understanding children there will be times when parental sexual bliss will be interrupted, and the parenting will take precedence over the instinctual desires.
At least that is my experience. One nice thing about being married is that there will be a nice time later, regardless of interruptions.
Jodie's age ...? My Gawd, 10,000 readers and no-one noticed that before? I'll skin that editor of mine ...
It is one of those vague-writing-feeling things. Does she have to be one single age? If not, then there is no mistake.
Thank you, again, to everyone who responded.
Nat(just off to find out what a tamale is)
Well, in the USA especially near Mexico it is sort of hard not to know, but I've known some USA'ns who truly didn't know about such treats.
Better tasted than described, I suppose, but it is nice spicy meat inside corn meal bread with spicy sauce.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Gary Jordan
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 11 Nov 2002 22:29:50 GMT
Jeff said:
<schnapps>
Nat(just off to find out what a tamale is)
Well, in the USA especially near Mexico it is sort of hard not to know, but I've known some USA'ns who truly didn't know about such treats.
Better tasted than described, I suppose, but it is nice spicy meat inside corn meal bread with spicy sauce.
I thought that was a burrito or a soft taco?
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die; they just don't get to go down as often."
<I>"This communicating of a man's self to his friend works two contrary
effects, for it redoubleth joys, and cutteth griefs in half." - Francis Bacon,
Essays </I>
From: Kelli Halliburton
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2002 23:16:44 GMT
Gary Jordan wrote:
Well, in the USA especially near Mexico it is sort of hard not to know, but I've known some USA'ns who truly didn't know about such treats.
Better tasted than described, I suppose, but it is nice spicy meat inside corn meal bread with spicy sauce.
I thought that was a burrito or a soft taco?
The key element of Mexican cuisine: meat, cheese, or beans, wrapped in a tortilla. :)
From: cmsix
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 05:43:13 GMT
"Gary Jordan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Jeff said:
<schnapps>
Nat(just off to find out what a tamale is)
Well, in the USA especially near Mexico it is sort of hard not to know, but I've known some USA'ns who truly didn't know about such treats.
Better tasted than described, I suppose, but it is nice spicy meat inside corn meal bread with spicy sauce.
I thought that was a burrito or a soft taco?
It was lunch Gary.
cmsix
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die; they just don't get to go down as often." <I>"This communicating of a man's self to his friend works two contrary effects, for it redoubleth joys, and cutteth griefs in half." - Francis Bacon, Essays </I>
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 10:30:51 -0600
On 11 Nov 2002 22:29:50 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote:
Jeff said:
<schnapps>
Nat(just off to find out what a tamale is)
Well, in the USA especially near Mexico it is sort of hard not to know, but I've known some USA'ns who truly didn't know about such treats.
Better tasted than described, I suppose, but it is nice spicy meat inside corn meal bread with spicy sauce.
I thought that was a burrito or a soft taco?
No, both of those use tortillas, which aren't the same sort of bread as the soft cushy corn meal mush used to make tamales. Hmm, I don't know if you get tamales at the fast food joints either; I think you'd need to hit a real restaurant, a store, or make them at home.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Ray
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 13:43:20 -0500
"Jeff Zephyr" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
On 11 Nov 2002 22:29:50 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote:
Jeff said:
<schnapps>
Nat(just off to find out what a tamale is)
Well, in the USA especially near Mexico it is sort of hard not to know, but I've known some USA'ns who truly didn't know about such treats.
Better tasted than described, I suppose, but it is nice spicy meat inside corn meal bread with spicy sauce.
I thought that was a burrito or a soft taco?
No, both of those use tortillas, which aren't the same sort of bread as the soft cushy corn meal mush used to make tamales. Hmm, I don't know if you get tamales at the fast food joints either; I think you'd need to hit a real restaurant, a store, or make them at home.
I've mentioned being in Texas, and California before (Raelly, I think there are only five states - all New England) that I haven't atl least 'seen' first hand. I've eaten "Mexican" food in many of them and in Mexico itself. For comparisson purposes, nothing I've had in the US has equated, flavor-wise, to the stone cooked or home cooked meals I had south of the border.
The closest I've tasted in restaurants has been in the border states (California, Arizona, N. Mexico, Texas and maybe Louisiana - though I ate mostly Cajun there) outside of those areas, it's too bland and usually improperly cooked. Taco Smell, which I really don't care for, is NOT Mexican food and outside of the names, a few ingredients and some assembly techniques, bears no resemblance to what it claims to be. (or perhaps I should say it "didn't" the last time I was in one - some time in the early 80')
While variations of most are available frozen and microwavable, the only way I 've seen tamales commercially available in stores, pre-made, was in cans (though I vaguely recall Swanson or Banquet or one of their short-lived competitor's making a 'tamale meal' for a while I haven't seen one locally in years). It's also been years since I've seen them in 'cans'.
Ray
Doing what you like is Freedom.
Liking what you do is Happiness.
http://www.asstr.org/~Ray1031/
-
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Shadow Wolf
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 12 Nov 2002 14:02:22 -0500
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 11 Nov 2002 22:29:50 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote:
Jeff said:
<schnapps>
Nat(just off to find out what a tamale is)
Well, in the USA especially near Mexico it is sort of hard not to know, but I've known some USA'ns who truly didn't know about such treats.
Better tasted than described, I suppose, but it is nice spicy meat inside corn meal bread with spicy sauce.
I thought that was a burrito or a soft taco?
No, both of those use tortillas, which aren't the same sort of bread as the soft cushy corn meal mush used to make tamales. Hmm, I don't know if you get tamales at the fast food joints either; I think you'd need to hit a real restaurant, a store, or make them at home.
Taco Bell's never served them, as far as I know :-) That's the only kind of Mexican food I've ever eaten.
Shadow Wolf
[email protected]
Stories at http://www.asstr.org/~Shadow_Wolf
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 18:43:00 -0600
On 12 Nov 2002 14:02:22 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 11 Nov 2002 22:29:50 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote:
Jeff said:
<schnapps>
Nat(just off to find out what a tamale is)
Well, in the USA especially near Mexico it is sort of hard not to know, but I've known some USA'ns who truly didn't know about such treats.
Better tasted than described, I suppose, but it is nice spicy meat inside corn meal bread with spicy sauce.
I thought that was a burrito or a soft taco?
No, both of those use tortillas, which aren't the same sort of bread as the soft cushy corn meal mush used to make tamales. Hmm, I don't know if you get tamales at the fast food joints either; I think you'd need to hit a real restaurant, a store, or make them at home.
Taco Bell's never served them, as far as I know :-) That's the only kind of Mexican food I've ever eaten.
How could that happen? :-)
You should go somewhere which has real Mexican food. Really, Taco Bell is very sad in comparison.
Home made is about as good, but you have to know someone who can cook it. We lived in the right neighborhood to do that when I was a kid.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Shadow Wolf
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 12 Nov 2002 20:44:37 -0500
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 12 Nov 2002 14:02:22 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 11 Nov 2002 22:29:50 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote:
Jeff said:
<schnapps>
Nat(just off to find out what a tamale is)
Well, in the USA especially near Mexico it is sort of hard not to know, but I've known some USA'ns who truly didn't know about such treats.
Better tasted than described, I suppose, but it is nice spicy meat inside corn meal bread with spicy sauce.
I thought that was a burrito or a soft taco?
No, both of those use tortillas, which aren't the same sort of bread as the soft cushy corn meal mush used to make tamales. Hmm, I don't know if you get tamales at the fast food joints either; I think you'd need to hit a real restaurant, a store, or make them at home.
Taco Bell's never served them, as far as I know :-) That's the only kind of Mexican food I've ever eaten.
How could that happen? :-)
Sadly, I really have problems with foreign foods, of any kind, but particularly the spicy ones. Basically, I simply don't dare try real Mexican food (or Indian food, or Thai food, or even Cajun ...). I even have to be careful about some American foods.
Yes, I'm quite well aware that Taco Bell isn't considered "real" Mexican food.
You should go somewhere which has real Mexican food. Really, Taco Bell is very sad in comparison.
Home made is about as good, but you have to know someone who can cook it. We lived in the right neighborhood to do that when I was a kid.
Shadow Wolf
[email protected]
Stories at http://www.asstr.org/~Shadow_Wolf
From: Ray
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2002 22:20:31 -0500
"Shadow Wolf" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 12 Nov 2002 14:02:22 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 11 Nov 2002 22:29:50 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote:
Sadly, I really have problems with foreign foods, of any kind, but particularly the spicy ones. Basically, I simply don't dare try real Mexican food (or Indian food, or Thai food, or even Cajun ...). I even have to be careful about some American foods.
Thai food would definately be a no-no then, especially if they are using original thai peppers. Cow Pott (a rice, meat, spice and pepper dish) and Monkey Balls (That's spicy meatballs on a stick people - Sheesh!!) which comes with it's own spicy pepper sauce would be especially bad choices.
For everyone who believes Jalapenos are 'hot' peppers, try one of those Thai beauties sometimes - they get hotter as they are cooked with other foods.
Tip for people who find they have suddenly eaten something extra hot ... don't drink liquids ... some recommend slices of bread, 'but' I have always found that a cabbage leaf works best ... chew it raw (if it's available) and it will quickly take the heat out of your mouth and throat - won many a bet using that trick .... on who would last longest without taking a drink of water.
Ray
Doing what you like is Freedom.
Liking what you do is Happiness.
http://www.asstr.org/~Ray1031/
-
Shadow Wolf
[email protected]
Stories at http://www.asstr.org/~Shadow_Wolf
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 18:00:49 -0600
On 12 Nov 2002 20:44:37 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 12 Nov 2002 14:02:22 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 11 Nov 2002 22:29:50 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote:
Jeff said:
<schnapps>
Nat(just off to find out what a tamale is)
Well, in the USA especially near Mexico it is sort of hard not to know, but I've known some USA'ns who truly didn't know about such treats.
Better tasted than described, I suppose, but it is nice spicy meat inside corn meal bread with spicy sauce.
I thought that was a burrito or a soft taco?
No, both of those use tortillas, which aren't the same sort of bread as the soft cushy corn meal mush used to make tamales. Hmm, I don't know if you get tamales at the fast food joints either; I think you'd need to hit a real restaurant, a store, or make them at home.
Taco Bell's never served them, as far as I know :-) That's the only kind of Mexican food I've ever eaten.
How could that happen? :-)
Sadly, I really have problems with foreign foods, of any kind, but particularly the spicy ones. Basically, I simply don't dare try real Mexican food (or Indian food, or Thai food, or even Cajun ...). I even have to be careful about some American foods.
But Mexican isn't foreign! :-)
At least, in very large parts of the USA. As I mentioned, for us in my family and neighborhood it was everyday food, along with a lot of other sorts of food. I get confused sometimes trying to figure out what "American" food is supposed to be, if not the food us melting-pot-origin Americans eat.
Yes, I'm quite well aware that Taco Bell isn't considered "real" Mexican food.
Frozen stuff in the grocery store is a lot closer really. Though some parts of Taco Bell food have the right inspiration at least, even little cafe/deli "Mexican" is much, much better (and real restaurant stuff is amazingly great).
The spicy thing isn't really required. It is popular, but you can get a lot of Mexican food which isn't hot spicy stuff.
You should go somewhere which has real Mexican food. Really, Taco Bell is very sad in comparison.
Home made is about as good, but you have to know someone who can cook it. We lived in the right neighborhood to do that when I was a kid.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Shadow Wolf
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 14 Nov 2002 13:06:10 -0500
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 12 Nov 2002 20:44:37 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 12 Nov 2002 14:02:22 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 11 Nov 2002 22:29:50 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote:
Jeff said:
<schnapps>
Nat(just off to find out what a tamale is)
Sadly, I really have problems with foreign foods, of any kind, but particularly the spicy ones. Basically, I simply don't dare try real Mexican food (or Indian food, or Thai food, or even Cajun ...). I even have to be careful about some American foods.
But Mexican isn't foreign! :-)
At least, in very large parts of the USA. As I mentioned, for us in my family and neighborhood it was everyday food, along with a lot of other sorts of food. I get confused sometimes trying to figure out what "American" food is supposed to be, if not the food us melting-pot-origin Americans eat.
Hell, it's not foreign here: There are three real Mexican restaurants, and three Mexican grocery stores, all within two blocks of my apartment!
Note that I couldn't even order at any of them - I don't speak a word of Spanish, and they seem to cater exclusively to the Hispanic, spanish- speaking crowd (even the signs are completely Spanish).
By "American" food I generally mean hamburgers, hot dogs, pizza (American style, which is completely different from real Italian pizza), fried chicken, and so forth. Cajun also counts, though it's one of the kinds of American foods I have to avoid.
Yes, I'm quite well aware that Taco Bell isn't considered "real" Mexican food.
Frozen stuff in the grocery store is a lot closer really. Though some parts of Taco Bell food have the right inspiration at least, even little cafe/deli "Mexican" is much, much better (and real restaurant stuff is amazingly great).
The spicy thing isn't really required. It is popular, but you can get a lot of Mexican food which isn't hot spicy stuff.
Around here, it's way too popular - along with the spicy Indian food, spicy Thai food, spicy Vietnamese food ... The office serves a free lunch every Tuesday, and it's never anything I can eat :-P
Shadow Wolf
[email protected]
Stories at http://www.asstr.org/~Shadow_Wolf
From: oosh
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 00:58:28 +0000 (UTC)
"Ray" <ray1031@ cac.net> wrote in news:ywjA9.8455$P71.2284623 @newsfeed.slurp.net:
For everyone who believes Jalapenos are 'hot' peppers, try one of those Thai beauties sometimes - they get hotter as they are cooked with other foods.
We had seven green finger chillies in tonight's supper (gul� ajam: do write if you'd like the recipe). They're about the same strength as the red bird- eye chillies. One gets used to them. The hottest I've come across is scotch bonnet. They're fierce.
Tip for people who find they have suddenly eaten something extra hot ... don't drink liquids ... some recommend slices of bread, 'but' I have always found that a cabbage leaf works best
I was once told that sugar is the best antidote to chilli hotness. It certainly seems to work. The hottest chillis sting my fingers, and I find that rinsing them in sugar-water does the trick.
O.
From: Ray
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 23:11:49 -0500
"oosh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
"Ray" <ray1031@ cac.net> wrote in news:ywjA9.8455$P71.2284623 @newsfeed.slurp.net:
For everyone who believes Jalapenos are 'hot' peppers, try one of those Thai beauties sometimes - they get hotter as they are cooked with other foods.
We had seven green finger chillies in tonight's supper (gul� ajam: do write if you'd like the recipe). They're about the same strength as the red bird- eye chillies. One gets used to them. The hottest I've come across is scotch bonnet. They're fierce.
Tip for people who find they have suddenly eaten something extra hot ... don't drink liquids ... some recommend slices of bread, 'but' I have always found that a cabbage leaf works best
I was once told that sugar is the best antidote to chilli hotness. It certainly seems to work. The hottest chillis sting my fingers, and I find that rinsing them in sugar-water does the trick.
O.
Rubbing the Cabbage leaf is supposed to do the same thing, though I never tried 'that' trick. As for the recipe, send it along ... I'm always willing to add to "Rabid Ray's Rude Recipes" (the name on my personal recipe book).
Stinging fingers don't trouble me much ... I have my hands in and out of pool chemicals frequently, to include muriatic acid (about a 10% diluted hydrochloric solution) ... By the end of a standard work day I know where every open cut on my hands are ... then I usually disinfect them with straight isopropyl alcohol ... so stinging hands is never a factor for me.
What I used to love, 23 or 24 years ago was when some 'kid' (really someone only a few years younger than I) straight off the farm in Toe Mold, Utah, with all the worldly experience of a gnat on a dog's butt - tell me that the hottest pepper in the world was the jalapeno and no one could outlast him before taking a drink. Not really being any smarter than he was, and usually half drunk at the time, things usually came to a bet.
At the time, I had already been to Nam, Thailand, Korea, Japan and the Philippines and had eaten many of the local dishes, usually including whatever the local 'hot pepper' was. To me, at the time, the hottest peppers readily available in the US were very mild. I tried to warn him ... I'd told him where I'd been ... what I'd eaten.
Bet came down to "Keep up" when the jar was set in front of us. I was on my fifth or sixth pepper (each time I reached for my next one I put one on the plate in front of him) when I realized he had stopped at three.
Don't think I could do that today ... I'm well out of the habit and would have to renew my tolerances and tastes for them, since everyone in the family prefers blander foods. I still like my hot and spicy when I can get it though ... really cleans out the system.
Ray
Give me too much spicy food,
and no one should light a match near me.
From: Gary Jordan
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 15 Nov 2002 06:05:50 GMT
Ray rejoined:
"oosh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ... "Ray" <ray1031@ cac.net> wrote in news:ywjA9.8455$P71.2284623 @newsfeed.slurp.net:
For everyone who believes Jalapenos are 'hot' peppers, try one of those Thai beauties sometimes - they get hotter as they are cooked with other foods.
We had seven green finger chillies in tonight's supper (gul� ajam: do write if you'd like the recipe). They're about the same strength as the red bird- eye chillies. One gets used to them. The hottest I've come across is scotch bonnet. They're fierce.
Tip for people who find they have suddenly eaten something extra hot ... don't drink liquids ... some recommend slices of bread, 'but' I have always found that a cabbage leaf works best
I was once told that sugar is the best antidote to chilli hotness. It certainly seems to work. The hottest chillis sting my fingers, and I find that rinsing them in sugar-water does the trick.
O.
Rubbing the Cabbage leaf is supposed to do the same thing, though I never tried 'that' trick. As for the recipe, send it along ... I'm always willing to add to "Rabid Ray's Rude Recipes" (the name on my personal recipe book).
Stinging fingers don't trouble me much ... I have my hands in and out of pool chemicals frequently, to include muriatic acid (about a 10% diluted hydrochloric solution) ... By the end of a standard work day I know where every open cut on my hands are ... then I usually disinfect them with straight isopropyl alcohol ... so stinging hands is never a factor for me.
What I used to love, 23 or 24 years ago was when some 'kid' (really someone only a few years younger than I) straight off the farm in Toe Mold, Utah, with all the worldly experience of a gnat on a dog's butt - tell me that the hottest pepper in the world was the jalapeno and no one could outlast him before taking a drink. Not really being any smarter than he was, and usually half drunk at the time, things usually came to a bet.
At the time, I had already been to Nam, Thailand, Korea, Japan and the Philippines and had eaten many of the local dishes, usually including whatever the local 'hot pepper' was. To me, at the time, the hottest peppers readily available in the US were very mild. I tried to warn him ... I'd told him where I'd been ... what I'd eaten.
Bet came down to "Keep up" when the jar was set in front of us. I was on my fifth or sixth pepper (each time I reached for my next one I put one on the plate in front of him) when I realized he had stopped at three.
Don't think I could do that today ... I'm well out of the habit and would have to renew my tolerances and tastes for them, since everyone in the family prefers blander foods. I still like my hot and spicy when I can get it though ... really cleans out the system.
Ray
Give me too much spicy food,
and no one should light a match near me.
My boss grows his own peppers. Always careful to fertilize with a mixture that includes the ashes from his fireplace. Then he makes Jalapeno Jelly and Habenero Relish and such, or just cans a percentage of the crop (in glass jars, with carrot chips just like the big guys.) He supplies a couple of local restaurants for their "hot wings" and sandwiches.
He eats those little orange pumpkins raw, but he does break out in a sweat. I use his habaneros in my Habenero Cheese Bread (he gets half the bake.) One loaf had too many pepper bits. The yeast died and it didn't rise to speak of. It looked more like carrot cake with minced carrots than bread. We sliced it as thin as melba toast, and it seemed as though the heat of the peppers only increased in the baking.
The next boss up the chain of command is a bit of a mooch, always checking the refrigerator in the break room for "abandoned" treats. He made a sandwich ...
He hasn't raided our fridge since.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die; they just wallow in sunken tubs."
<I>"This communicating of a man's self to his friend works two contrary effects, for it redoubleth joys, and cutteth griefs in half." - Francis Bacon, Essays </I>
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2002 18:26:02 -0600
On 14 Nov 2002 13:06:10 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 12 Nov 2002 20:44:37 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 12 Nov 2002 14:02:22 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
On 11 Nov 2002 22:29:50 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote:
Jeff said:
<schnapps>
Nat(just off to find out what a tamale is)
Sadly, I really have problems with foreign foods, of any kind, but particularly the spicy ones. Basically, I simply don't dare try real Mexican food (or Indian food, or Thai food, or even Cajun ...). I even have to be careful about some American foods.
But Mexican isn't foreign! :-)
At least, in very large parts of the USA. As I mentioned, for us in my family and neighborhood it was everyday food, along with a lot of other sorts of food. I get confused sometimes trying to figure out what "American" food is supposed to be, if not the food us melting-pot-origin Americans eat.
Hell, it's not foreign here: There are three real Mexican restaurants, and three Mexican grocery stores, all within two blocks of my apartment!
Note that I couldn't even order at any of them - I don't speak a word of Spanish, and they seem to cater exclusively to the Hispanic, spanish- speaking crowd (even the signs are completely Spanish).
OK, that isn't so unusual, but most places seem to cater to all customers, with someone there who speaks English. Now, menus and signs, those are often in the language for whatever the restaurant caters too.
I figure that you could go there, with a friend if nothing else.
By "American" food I generally mean hamburgers, hot dogs, pizza (American style, which is completely different from real Italian pizza), fried chicken, and so forth. Cajun also counts, though it's one of the kinds of American foods I have to avoid.
Those fit into the fast food patterns, for sure. But I don't think that the restaurant food is especially American most places. But then, what foods are truly native to America (Native American stuff doesn't count per se - it is just as foreign a food as those from other nations)?
Yes, I'm quite well aware that Taco Bell isn't considered "real" Mexican food.
Frozen stuff in the grocery store is a lot closer really. Though some parts of Taco Bell food have the right inspiration at least, even little cafe/deli "Mexican" is much, much better (and real restaurant stuff is amazingly great).
The spicy thing isn't really required. It is popular, but you can get a lot of Mexican food which isn't hot spicy stuff.
Around here, it's way too popular - along with the spicy Indian food, spicy Thai food, spicy Vietnamese food ... The office serves a free lunch every Tuesday, and it's never anything I can eat :-P
Hmm, spicy is popular, I know that. But don't they know that some people like less spicy foods?
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Tesseract
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 14 Nov 2002 23:45:39 -0800
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
On 14 Nov 2002 13:06:10 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
...
Those fit into the fast food patterns, for sure. But I don't think that the restaurant food is especially American most places. But then, what foods are truly native to America (Native American stuff doesn't count per se - it is just as foreign a food as those from other nations)?
How would you define American food? How would you define America? Excited States of? North America? - including Canada, Mexico The Americas? - North, Central, South
Why would you exclude Native, or aboriginal, food?
You could define American food as anything that uses American
ingredients. These include:
Potatoes
Tomatoes
Peppers
Corn
Squash, including pumpkin and zucchini
Chocolate
Strawberries
Cranberries
Maple syrup
Wild rice, which is not really a rice
Turkey
Avocado
Kidney beans, and relatives
Gee, what did people eat before that Italian idiot accidently bumped into part of the Americas?
Tesseract
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 12:16:15 -0600
On 14 Nov 2002 23:45:39 -0800, [email protected] (Tesseract) wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ... On 14 Nov 2002 13:06:10 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
...
Those fit into the fast food patterns, for sure. But I don't think that the restaurant food is especially American most places. But then, what foods are truly native to America (Native American stuff doesn't count per se - it is just as foreign a food as those from other nations)?
How would you define American food? How would you define America?
The popular cultural food forms peddled around the world as American food - the food of the United States of America.
Excited States of?
North America? - including Canada, Mexico
Canada and Mexico have their own unique cuisines.
The Americas? - North, Central, South
No, they don't have the same sorts of foods.
Why would you exclude Native, or aboriginal, food?
Because they are a different culture. Each nation has its own traditional foods, and we don't normally call them "American Food" without the "native" in front of it. Even then, you usually tag on a nation name, because it isn't one single style of cooking.
You could define American food as anything that uses American ingredients. These include: Potatoes
Tomatoes
Peppers
Corn
Squash, including pumpkin and zucchini Chocolate Strawberries
Cranberries
Maple syrup
Wild rice, which is not really a rice
Turkey
Avocado
Kidney beans, and relatives
One could, and some of those things fit into the popular American food culture. But we have a lot of other things which are popular as American-style food.
Gee, what did people eat before that Italian idiot accidently bumped into part of the Americas?
Well, before he came the place wasn't called America, was it? They had their own fine foods, lots of nationalities, but not a single one was "American".
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Tesseract
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 15 Nov 2002 21:13:10 -0800
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
On 14 Nov 2002 23:45:39 -0800, [email protected] (Tesseract) wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ... On 14 Nov 2002 13:06:10 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
...
The popular cultural food forms peddled around the world as American food - the food of the United States of America.
Excited States of?
North America? - including Canada, Mexico
Canada and Mexico have their own unique cuisines.
I haven't been to Mexico so I can't comment about it. USA and Canada do not have their own cusine. Each country has cultural regions and each region has its own cusine. And these are influenced by the early immigrants who brought their tastes with them and adapted the cusine they were familiar with to the local resources.
It's not hard to see the English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, etc. influences in every thing that could be called American cusine.
America can take credit for the Hotdog and the Ice Cream Cone, both of which first appeared at American hosted World Fairs (I don't recall, they could have shown up at the same fair). And the Twinky.
The Americas? - North, Central, South
No, they don't have the same sorts of foods.
Why would you exclude Native, or aboriginal, food?
Because they are a different culture. Each nation has its own traditional foods, and we don't normally call them "American Food" without the "native" in front of it. Even then, you usually tag on a nation name, because it isn't one single style of cooking.
You could define American food as anything that uses American ingredients. These include: Potatoes
Tomatoes
Peppers
Corn
Squash, including pumpkin and zucchini Chocolate Strawberries
Cranberries
Maple syrup
Wild rice, which is not really a rice Turkey Avocado
Kidney beans, and relatives
One could, and some of those things fit into the popular American food culture. But we have a lot of other things which are popular as American-style food.
Fast food versions of other, mostly European, cultures.
Gee, what did people eat before that Italian idiot accidently bumped into part of the Americas?
Well, before he came the place wasn't called America, was it? They had their own fine foods, lots of nationalities, but not a single one was "American".
Wrong end of the stick. What did the rest of the world eat since some plants native to the americas have found a place in just about every other culture in the world.
Imagine Italian food without tomatoes; German or Irish without potatoes; South East Asia - Thai, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Indian - without hot peppers.
Tesseract - what do strippers have to do with strip malls?
From: dennyw
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2002 01:37:58 -0800
On 15 Nov 2002 21:13:10 -0800, [email protected] (Tesseract) wrote:
I haven't been to Mexico so I can't comment about it. USA and Canada do not have their own cusine. Each country has cultural regions and each region has its own cusine. And these are influenced by the early immigrants who brought their tastes with them and adapted the cusine they were familiar with to the local resources.
<thinks: I sure wish my copy of Too Many Cooks [1] were handy, instead of in storage>
Then I'd reproduce the menu of the American Dinner which Nero Wolfe
cooked at Kanawha Spa. Among other items, I remember these:
Virginia Ham - from pigs fed exclusively on peanuts - served with (?
maple sauce? - some clearly American sauce)
Terrapin Maryland.
Corn on the Cob
Sally Lunn
Along with the dinner, Wolfe delivered quite a speech on the topic of American cuisine.
[1] a fairly early Nero Wolfe novel. Rex Stout, author of the Nero Wolfe books, was a polymath; among his other accomplishments, he could cook every dish mentioned in any of the NW books.
-denny (curmudgeon)
"I'm full of good answers - sometimes it's the question that's wrong." Miss Behavin'
From: sue
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 16 Nov 2002 07:31:09 -0800
[email protected] (Tesseract) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
America can take credit for the Hotdog and the Ice Cream Cone, both of which first appeared at American hosted World Fairs (I don't recall, they could have shown up at the same fair).
St. Louis, 1906.
sue
(who has a lot of trivial information in her brain)
From: TML
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 10:12:07 -0600
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Tesseract) wrote:
Imagine Italian food without tomatoes; German or Irish without potatoes; South East Asia - Thai, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Indian - without hot peppers. -
Tesseract - what do strippers have to do with strip malls?
Imagine? Have it for real in northern Italy today, have a cabbage dinner in Ireland, visit a Asian market and ask about spice without peppers (beginning with lemon grass). Tom
From: cmsix
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 16:32:01 GMT
"Tesseract" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ... On 14 Nov 2002 23:45:39 -0800, [email protected] (Tesseract) wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ... On 14 Nov 2002 13:06:10 -0500, Shadow Wolf <[email protected]> wrote:
...
The popular cultural food forms peddled around the world as American food - the food of the United States of America.
Excited States of?
North America? - including Canada, Mexico
Canada and Mexico have their own unique cuisines.
I haven't been to Mexico so I can't comment about it. USA and Canada do not have their own cusine. Each country has cultural regions and each region has its own cusine. And these are influenced by the early immigrants who brought their tastes with them and adapted the cusine they were familiar with to the local resources.
It's not hard to see the English, German, French, Italian, Spanish, Swedish, etc. influences in every thing that could be called American cusine.
America can take credit for the Hotdog and the Ice Cream Cone, both of which first appeared at American hosted World Fairs (I don't recall, they could have shown up at the same fair). And the Twinky.
The Americas? - North, Central, South
No, they don't have the same sorts of foods.
Why would you exclude Native, or aboriginal, food?
Because they are a different culture. Each nation has its own traditional foods, and we don't normally call them "American Food" without the "native" in front of it. Even then, you usually tag on a nation name, because it isn't one single style of cooking.
You could define American food as anything that uses American ingredients. These include: Potatoes
Tomatoes
Peppers
Corn
Squash, including pumpkin and zucchini Chocolate Strawberries
Cranberries
Maple syrup
Wild rice, which is not really a rice Turkey Avocado
Kidney beans, and relatives
One could, and some of those things fit into the popular American food culture. But we have a lot of other things which are popular as American-style food.
Fast food versions of other, mostly European, cultures.
Gee, what did people eat before that Italian idiot accidently bumped into part of the Americas?
Well, before he came the place wasn't called America, was it? They had their own fine foods, lots of nationalities, but not a single one was "American".
Wrong end of the stick. What did the rest of the world eat since some plants native to the americas have found a place in just about every other culture in the world.
Imagine Italian food without tomatoes; German or Irish without potatoes; South East Asia - Thai, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Indian - without hot peppers.
Imagine a McDonald's hamburger without soybeans?
cmsix
-
Tesseract - what do strippers have to do with strip malls?
From: Conjugate
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2002 22:11:32 -0700
"Tesseract" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Wrong end of the stick. What did the rest of the world eat since some plants native to the americas have found a place in just about every other culture in the world.
Imagine Italian food without tomatoes; German or Irish without potatoes; South East Asia - Thai, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Indian - without hot peppers.
The first two I will accept. I have my doubts that there were absolutely no hot peppers available anywhere in SE Asia prior to Columbus' discovery thereof. Besides, I can easily imagine curry without peppers; good curry powder owes much to stuff like fenugreek, for instance, and ginger.
But your point about Italian food without tomatoes is well-taken. I wonder what the Italians put on their spaghetti in the centuries between its introduction by Marco Polo from China and the acceptance of tomatoes?
Conjugate
wondering if the Italians just clammed up about their early recipes
From: TML
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 00:02:15 -0600
In article <[email protected]>, "Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote:
But your point about Italian food without tomatoes is well-taken. I wonder what the Italians put on their spaghetti in the centuries between its introduction by Marco Polo from China and the acceptance of tomatoes?
Conjugate
wondering if the Italians just clammed up about their early recipes
Even the southern Italians don't automatically ladle on the red sauce. The standard addition to spaghetti is olive oil and a little salt and pepper. Capers or a pinch of finely chopped anchovies if you want some zing.
Salute,
Tom
From: Tesseract
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 17 Nov 2002 04:46:16 -0800
"Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
"Tesseract" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Wrong end of the stick. What did the rest of the world eat since some plants native to the americas have found a place in just about every other culture in the world.
Imagine Italian food without tomatoes; German or Irish without potatoes; South East Asia - Thai, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Indian - without hot peppers.
The first two I will accept. I have my doubts that there were absolutely no hot peppers available anywhere in SE Asia prior to Columbus' discovery thereof. Besides, I can easily imagine curry without peppers; good curry powder owes much to stuff like fenugreek, for instance, and ginger.
But your point about Italian food without tomatoes is well-taken. I wonder what the Italians put on their spaghetti in the centuries between its introduction by Marco Polo from China and the acceptance of tomatoes?
Conjugate
wondering if the Italians just clammed up about their early recipes
We get to thank that Italian idiot for the faulty nomenclature. Peppercorns from Asia were known for a long time in Europe. There are some other hot spices out there that have probably also been used to warm things up.
One of the first (American) peppers that Chris found must have been a hot one and he had such a fine palate that he immediately decided they tasted the same as the peppercorns that he was familiar with.
The many plants in the (American) pepper family (capsicum is the Latin name), from the hot ones such as chilli and jalapeno through to the sweet bell pepper, are all related and are native to Central America. They did not exist elsewhere before trade with the Americas. If they did then someone was trading with Central America before the 1500s. Also, since spices from SE Asia were known in Europe, if these peppers were known in Asia they would have found their way to Europe to some extent at least.
Tesseract
From: Sagittaria
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 16:24:18 -0000
"Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
But your point about Italian food without tomatoes is well-taken. I wonder what the Italians put on their spaghetti in the centuries between its introduction by Marco Polo from China and the acceptance of tomatoes?
I think I recall that noodles actually originated in China, and somehow Italy got the credit. So maybe the Italians didn't even have spaghetti to not put tomatoes on.
- - >Sagittaria< - -
For better sigs than I could ever come up with, see http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~moose/sigs.html
From: cmsix
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 19:13:47 GMT
"Sagittaria" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
"Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
But your point about Italian food without tomatoes is well-taken. I wonder what the Italians put on their spaghetti in the centuries between its introduction by Marco Polo from China and the acceptance of tomatoes?
I think I recall that noodles actually originated in China, and somehow Italy got the credit. So maybe the Italians didn't even have spaghetti to not put tomatoes on.
-
- - >Sagittaria< - -
Marco Polo if you can.
cmsix
For better sigs than I could ever come up with, see http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~moose/sigs.html
From: Kelli Halliburton
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 20:31:45 GMT
Sagittaria wrote:
"Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
But your point about Italian food without tomatoes is well-taken. I wonder what the Italians put on their spaghetti in the centuries between its introduction by Marco Polo from China and the acceptance of tomatoes?
I think I recall that noodles actually originated in China, and somehow Italy got the credit. So maybe the Italians didn't even have spaghetti to not put tomatoes on.
Right, but Conjugate asks what they put on spaghetti between the time of Marco Polo's bringing of noodles from China to Italy, and when the tomato was accepted as an edible fruit.
Polo's trip was in the 1400's, and tomatoes were considered a poisonous plant until the 1700's, I believe. My memory of the relevant dates may be a bit fuzzy.
From: cmsix
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 21:53:17 GMT
"Kelli Halliburton" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Sagittaria wrote:
"Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
But your point about Italian food without tomatoes is well-taken. I wonder what the Italians put on their spaghetti in the centuries between its introduction by Marco Polo from China and the acceptance of tomatoes?
I think I recall that noodles actually originated in China, and somehow Italy got the credit. So maybe the Italians didn't even have spaghetti to not put tomatoes on.
Right, but Conjugate asks what they put on spaghetti between the time of Marco Polo's bringing of noodles from China to Italy, and when the tomato was accepted as an edible fruit.
Polo's trip was in the 1400's, and tomatoes were considered a poisonous plant until the 1700's, I believe. My memory of the relevant dates may be a bit fuzzy.
Mine too, I was just guessing about Marco Polo. Did he really have something to do with it. I seem to remember I was stumbling around in Ireland at the time.
cmsix
From: Tesseract
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 18 Nov 2002 05:01:21 -0800
"Kelli Halliburton" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
Sagittaria wrote:
"Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
But your point about Italian food without tomatoes is well-taken. I wonder what the Italians put on their spaghetti in the centuries between its introduction by Marco Polo from China and the acceptance of tomatoes?
I think I recall that noodles actually originated in China, and somehow Italy got the credit. So maybe the Italians didn't even have spaghetti to not put tomatoes on.
Right, but Conjugate asks what they put on spaghetti between the time of Marco Polo's bringing of noodles from China to Italy, and when the tomato was accepted as an edible fruit.
Polo's trip was in the 1400's, and tomatoes were considered a poisonous plant until the 1700's, I believe. My memory of the relevant dates may be a bit fuzzy.
The "official" story is that Marco Polo
Venetian traveler who explored Asia from 1271 to 1295. His Travels of Marco Polo was the only account of the Far East available to Europeans until the 17th century. - Dictionary.com
brought back the concept of noodles from China, along with a lot of other oriental inventions.
There are two counter opinions. One is that there is some doubt that Polo actually got to China. Some think he may have just travelled out of sight of Venice and met other travellers and traders that may have been to China, or that met people that may have been to China, and thus compiled his accounts from second, third and fourth hand accounts.
The other opinion is that Italy had wheat and flour so it is such a small step to create pasta. Mix flour and either eggs or water, knead into a dough, roll into a sheet, cut into strips and voila - noodles. Or cut into circles or squares and wrap it around something and - ravioli, or perogies, or pot stickers, .... Just about every culture has something similar. So, though Polo may have seen noodles in China, Italy was quite capable of inventing them on its own.
Either way, they could not have tomato sauce until about 1500. I recall reading that some people thought tomatoes were poisonous because it is in the nightshade family, but I don't think it was two hundred years. I assume the American natives ate it so simple observation would say it was safe.
Tesseract
From: Conjugate
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 22:09:59 -0700
"Sagittaria" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
"Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
But your point about Italian food without tomatoes is well-taken. I wonder what the Italians put on their spaghetti in the centuries between its introduction by Marco Polo from China and the acceptance of tomatoes?
I think I recall that noodles actually originated in China, and somehow Italy got the credit. So maybe the Italians didn't even have spaghetti to not put tomatoes on.
Yes, they did. But I understood Marco Polo took them from China, where they originated, to Italy, and it seems to me that was before trade with the Americas (ICOCBW). So, after the introduction of spaghetti and before the introduction of tomatoes, then what?
My signature jokingly suggests the answer; clam sauce.
Conjugate
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From: Mat Twassel
Re: The Trouble with Penises, by Father Ignatius
Date: 29 Oct 2002 13:46:28 GMT
The middle part is the best. Work is needed at the beginning and at the end. I'm sure you can do it, but what I'd recommend is chopping off both ends and just keeping the middle - I like it so much. (I would have loved to see (at least some hints) of the measuring.)
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com