1.) Great idea.
2.) Great title
2(a) Nice, quirky style of exposition.
2(b) Best story posted all week containing the word "herpetologist."
2) 2 things to improve
1. Editing. Just a little.
"Ah, for all intensive purposes," he grimaced and pointed at Hank, still
Typo?
crook of her finger stroked between his balls and beneath his shy mons.
He had a mons?
2.) Too short
"Father Ignatius" <[email protected]>
The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 10 Dec 2001 21:36:35 GMT
Father Nat writes:
"Ah, for all intensive purposes," he grimaced and pointed at Hank, still
Typo?
If you're talking about "intensive," I think it's kinda cute. What stopped me
was grimaced used in the tag. Sorta like dimpled last week. Or was that two
weeks ago? In any case this doesn't count as one of my two.
- Mat
From: El Gato
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 04:10:23 GMT
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat!
Positives.
I liked the little twist at the ending. Who had the 'snapping pussy' and who
got 'cold fish'.
Interesting style. Brevity is the sole of wit.<G>
Things to improve.
This was a little confusing, at first. I think a kiss is missing.
"He's gorgeous! An absolute beauty. I just want to him on the lips!"
"Borkto"? When I read this I couldn't help but think 'Gort! Platu, nicto,
barradus!' Kind of distracting.
It's still a very interesting little piece.
El Gato
Pardon me while I go check on another interesting little piece.<G>
From: Desdmona
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 11 Dec 2001 05:14:28 GMT
{ASSD} The FishTank #21 Trick Pussy
by
PleaseCain.
Oops! An oversight! This story is coded (MF)
Sorry About that!
Des
(Forgive me, I'm grouchy! I just got home from traveling and the 9 ft.
Christmas tree I was so proud to have decorated before I left was lying on the
floor with broken glass bulbs, mangled lights, and disheveled ribbon)
From: Conjugate
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:58:31 -0500
(Forgive me, I'm grouchy! I just got home from traveling and the 9 ft.
Christmas tree I was so proud to have decorated before I left was lying on
the
floor with broken glass bulbs, mangled lights, and disheveled ribbon)
Good heavens! What brought that on? Cats, jealous neighbors, disgruntled
dryads, or perhaps an inadequate tree stand? You have my sympathies.
Conjugate
whose cats keep making loud crashing noises that don't seem to be related to
anything
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:57:24 -0600
On 11 Dec 2001 05:14:28 GMT, [email protected] (Desdmona22) held
forth, saying:
(Forgive me, I'm grouchy! I just got home from traveling and the 9 ft.
Christmas tree I was so proud to have decorated before I left was lying on the
floor with broken glass bulbs, mangled lights, and disheveled ribbon)
<standing with axe in hand>
"Here, kitty, kitty."
(ps: that wouldn't be me. I'm a very soft touch for pussies. And
cats.)
Me too. Both of those things :-)
I do need to keep the tree hunting (actually, it is the shiny
ornaments and blinky lights) cat away from the tree, but otherwise it
is safe enough. No tree falling down so far, anyway.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 11 Dec 2001 17:13:34 GMT
It's hard not to echo the comments of Nat and El Gato. Except for the few
critical typos, this piece is a delight to read - wonderfully inventive, witty,
fluid - and there's a nice subtle tension.
I was disappointed in the ending, though. Maybe I was expecting too much. The
tension seemed to disappate with the onset of the sex, though that section was
nicely written, as was the final segment, which didn't really add enough. A
twist, sure, but it was too small. I was left feeling that this wasn't quite a
story, more an exercise in spinning the Flintstones.
I know, that's not really a suggestion. Maybe I can only repeat (again) Nat's
suggestion: it needs to be longer. Something else has to happen. It might not
be that the something else has to happen at the end. The additional something
could be in the middle or in the beginning. (And maybe it's really there, and I
just missed it.)
I agree with El Gato, too, that the beginning is confusing. It's a little hard
to keep the two characters straight. It occurred to me that that might be
intentional, but given the way the story goes, and given how brief it is, I
think it's important for the reader to see these guys separately, even if their
banter seems to be largely undifferentiated at heart. The names are different
enough, so maybe putting the name in each dialogue tag would help. Another
possibility it to give each character some single important characteristic, and
include that in the early tags.
- Mat Twassel
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:39:34 -0600
The following is # 21 in the FishTank. This is a complete story written by
PleaseCain. The story is 811 words. FishTank guidelines apply:
Let's see, I really liked the whole humorous feel of the story.
Nice and relaxed, everyone getting along, and Hank and Dina getting
along very well.
I liked the names. I've never known a Bortko.
The sex scene seemed a bit abrupt. Not sure if you want to make it
have more details, since the setup for it is fine. Just something
that I like to see more of.
The setting doesn't seem perfectly clear from the start. After a
bit, I get the idea that the men are watching baseball on TV, but not
at the start. A few more references and details on the setting might
make it seem more obvious.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 11 Dec 2001 20:55:40 GMT
The following is # 21 in the FishTank. This is a complete story written by
PleaseCain. The story is 811 words. FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
1. <Jim Carrie>I liked it!</Jim Carrie>
2. Her "Yabba-dabba-do" gave the impression she overheard the conversation,
without saying so outright. Sneaky.
2) 2 things to improve
1. Spalling was as bed as mine.
There is no #2.
3) Try not to repeat!
Too late.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die. But they do get their comeuppance."
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 12 Dec 2001 14:40:12 GMT
Mat writes:
I was disappointed in the ending, though. Maybe I was expecting too much. The
tension seemed to disappate with the onset of the sex, though that section
was
nicely written,
One phrase in there I found a little jarring:
Straddling him, she lifted her satin nightshirt and guided his prick between
her legs, damp from bathing or otherwise.
It's the "from bathing or otherwise." I'd be content with just "damp" moved in
front of legs. If we leave it as is, shouldn't the narrator know what the damp
is from? If we leave it, shouldn't it be "from bathing and otherwise"?
I know, that's not really a suggestion. Maybe I can only repeat (again)
Nat's
suggestion: it needs to be longer. Something else has to happen. It might not
be that the something else has to happen at the end. The additional something
could be in the middle or in the beginning. (And maybe it's really there, and
I
just missed it.)
To expand slightly on this thought: One thing I wonder about is that Bortko's
first comment seem to come out of nowhere. Now that might be right, but we
really don't know. Does it make a difference? I think it might. What if there
were a few sentences before to make this clear? For example, Bortko could pat
his stomach and say "Dina outdid herself again," and then ask "Gettin' any?"
and Hank could answer with a sheepish grin. Something like that might set us
up better. Or to keep the strength of the initial comment, this material could
be inserted just after it. "What do you mean?" Hank asked. Bortko patted
himself on the tummy. "Dina makes such a mean casserole - I was just wondering
if you were gettin' any these days." Hank answered with a sheepish grin. Etc.
Another thing I wonder about is the order of the final sections. What would be
the effect of splitting Hank's section? Have him go up to bed. Cut to the
Bortko scene. And then come back to Hank and the sex scene. Just a thought.
One last comment. Gary likes that Dina's "Yabba dubba do" hints that she had
overheard the talk in the den. But another possibility is that that's the way
it is between this couple. Are these readings compatible? Would it be better
if we had a much stronger much earlier hint that Dina did overhear? I think it
might, because that way some different tension would be created: how will Dina
react? As it is, it sort of comes out of nowhere. There's a charm to that
tactic, but I don't know that it's the best choice. I think I'd enjoy "seeing"
Dina's side of it earlier on.
- Mat Twassel
From: Anne747
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 14 Dec 2001 01:58:43 GMT
Argh, being late, and ever so slightly tipsy, I'm going to cheat a little
(okay, a lot).
I liked it. A sex story with a moral (of sorts).
I agree with most of the other comments. I feel that it should be longer.
However, if you did that you would have to cut back on some of the 'cutesy'
references.
So, perhaps the length is just right.
Anne (who now plans to drop into bed)
To reply by mail - remove the b in the address
Anne's Erotic Story Archive - http://annejet.pair.com/
Free Story FAQ - http://annejet.pair.com/fsfaq/
From: Always Horny
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:29:05 +0100
Desdmona22 wrote:
1) 2 positive comments
Nice story. Light humor, well done.
I like the girl in that story :)
2) 2 things to improve
It shouldn't just when things are getting interesting! More detail right around
this sentence.
"Ahhhhhhh!" he cried, white knuckles grabbing the side of the mattress, her
knees squeezing his torso and her wild body riding his.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Desdmona
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 15 Dec 2001 03:27:15 GMT
I'm in awe of the author/artist partly because he can write effective flash
fiction and I can't. Damn!
I like Hank! I like that he watches baseball until the last out, even if he's
sure of the outcome. I like that he tries to watch Letterman, but drifts off. I
like that he notices things like Wilma Flintstone's kicking feet. I like that
he remembers little things like closing a window so his wife doesn't have to
worry about it. And I especially like Hank because he doesn't need to boast
about women, because he appreciates what he has at home, and yet he pacifies
his friend by allowing his friend to do so. Hank's a good friend. A good
husband. A good man.
Bortko personifies "frat boy that refuses to grow up." He wants a trick pussy,
he puts his cigarette butts in the beer cans, he thinks any woman that doesn't
fit the poster model is a cold fish, he can't even make a commitment to a
baseball game, and he doesn't even try to watch Letterman. (Geesh!)
Dina is a woman I can relate to. She likes to recycle! She likes to cook! She
likes to fuck!
Three distinct characters, defined in subtle terms, all of this out of a story
that's around 800 words. Another awe-inspiring talent.
Minor peccadillo: the name Dina. It's awfully close to Dino and with the
Flintstone references; I'm wondering if this is intentional or just a
coincidence.
I'm not sure I like the opening line; it sounds like a cheating way to set a
scene, like I'm about to read a play. Someone else suggested making a few minor
changes in the beginning to the dialogue to make the guys more distinguishable.
I think they are distinguishable, but not at first read, therefore I like this
idea and was thinking that if this were done then there would be no need for
the first line.
The other thing I'm still debating about (in my head) is if Dina did hear the
conversation between Hank and Bortko. Because she says, "Yabba-dabba-do" I'm
inclined to believe she does overhear it. I guess part of me doesn't want that
to be the case because then it infers that she's out to prove something with
the sex. If she doesn't hear it, then it means that this is who she really is,
the sexy wife, and I really want her to be the sexy wife and not the wife who
has something to prove. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it ...who knows!
<smile>
Thanks Cain! You've proven once again what a talented writer you are! I for one
am a devoted fan.
Des
From: Poison Ivan
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:41:02 -0500
I think flash fiction needs a strong ending, a beat-you-over-the-head kind
of point to make. A too-subtle ending gets lost. I'm going to disagree with
Mat about the ending in this story - I liked it. To me, it said someone who
has too much advice about sex is probably the one having an unsatisfactory
sex life. I love flash fiction, it's exciting to read prose that is so
tightly written that you can't find a spare word. It's awesome to read
someone who has the skill to pull it off.
Criticisms ... this is very minor, but I wonder if the crocodile hunter
stuff goes on just a tad too long? The story is so quickly-paced everywhere
else, so it felt like the story hesitated a little. I might try to prune one
sentence somehow, although I'd hate to lose any of the jokes. Perhaps if you
took some of the other advice and padded the story by 100 words, it wouldn't
seem like it was paced differently than the rest of the story? Like I said,
really minor.
My other suggestion is probably more controversial. In both couples, the
woman is the sexual initiator. Bortko's honey doesn't succeed, but she
appears to be trying. Both men are ready to call it quits for the day. Why
this similarity? Is Dina just a little bit more aggressive than Bortko's
girl? Or is Hank just a little more willing to take advantage of the
opportunity? I think if the women (or the men) were differentiated a little
bit more in the final scenes, it might make for an even stronger ending. If
it were me, I would probably make Bortko's girl back off and remove the hint
of foreplay (the circling of his nipple, the playing with the hairs on his
stomach), which would make their relationship feel more dead sexually.
I think the real strength of the story comes from the dialog. It sounds very
natural, exactly the kind of responses you'd expect from a couple guys
watching a baseball game, or a Dina picking up empties, or a couple getting
ready to fall asleep for the night. And, of course, that fun stuff between
Hank and Dina while they were in bed!
And the best part, of course, is that I got to get a first look before
everyone else in the Fish Tank. What a treat!
I'm not sure if any of this is at all helpful, but at least it was a day
late!
Poison Ivan
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 16 Dec 2001 03:52:45 GMT
Poison Ivan writes:
I think flash fiction needs a strong ending, a beat-you-over-the-head kind
of point to make. A too-subtle ending gets lost. I'm going to disagree with
Mat about the ending in this story - I liked it. To me, it said someone who
has too much advice about sex is probably the one having an unsatisfactory
sex life.
Okay, but I don't remember saying that I didn't like it. I do remember saying
something about how having the Hank segment split might be better. I'd like
the story to end with "Yaba dabba do." That wouldn't be too subtle, now would
it?
Another quibble: whose sex life is unsatisfactory? Bortko has his chance, and
he turns it down. He'd rather sleep than fuck. It's his wife who seems to have
and unsatisfactory sex life.
Criticisms ... this is very minor, but I wonder if the crocodile hunter
stuff goes on just a tad too long? The story is so quickly-paced everywhere
else, so it felt like the story hesitated a little. I might try to prune one
sentence somehow, although I'd hate to lose any of the jokes. Perhaps if you
took some of the other advice and padded the story by 100 words, it wouldn't
seem like it was paced differently than the rest of the story? Like I said,
really minor.
For me the only problem was that the wife was speaking with this Australian
accent before she had anything "Australian" to say. I thought Australian accent
was peculiar until I got to the next sentence. Some slight rearranging here
might make it easier for the reader to understand what's going on.
My other suggestion is probably more controversial. In both couples, the
woman is the sexual initiator. Bortko's honey doesn't succeed, but she
appears to be trying. Both men are ready to call it quits for the day. Why
this similarity? Is Dina just a little bit more aggressive than Bortko's
girl? Or is Hank just a little more willing to take advantage of the
opportunity? I think if the women (or the men) were differentiated a little
bit more in the final scenes, it might make for an even stronger ending. If
it were me, I would probably make Bortko's girl back off and remove the hint
of foreplay (the circling of his nipple, the playing with the hairs on his
stomach), which would make their relationship feel more dead sexually.
Yes, but I disagree that it's in the best interests of the story to paint that
relationship as completely dead. The story is more interesting if Bortko
doesn't take up his girl's advances. You have to wonder what's with him. Now
suppose Bortko had made the advance and been rebuffed? That would have been sad
in a third different way.
Good comments, though. The more I look at this story the more I like it.
- Mat Twassel
From: PleaseCain
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 16 Dec 2001 03:54:58 GMT
Thanks to all of this week's participants, and to Des and Ivan; every comment
was appreciated. The astute readers identified every weakness I had feared,
and then gave me more to ponder.
The story was inspired by a special someone, and you know how such stories seem
to write themselves. By the preponderance of suggestions, the story clearly
needs to be longer, that as it stands the reader feels a little gypped,
although I'm still not certain where to flesh it out. In fact, I thought their
bedroom talk might be pushing the upward-limits, unless everyone is a Crocodile
Hunter fan like me; I was pleased that at least it wasn't boring.
The piece was intended as humor, and as something of a paean to wedded romance.
The latter point was clear enough, and the former was an apparent failure.
For instance, in my mind, his final exclamation in bed isn't orgasmic, but was
meant as aaahhhhhh! as in, say, Butch and Sundance jumping from the cliff, as
in a man feeling quite satisfied with himself in bed before the woman takes it
up five notches and seizes control of the situation, something of a sexual coup
d' etat (a wonderfully humbling surprise I hope every guy out there experiences
at least once). And yes, that is how many men talk, and yes, you can't judge a
book by its cover.
I think I may bat your suggestions around for a few weeks, and then resubmit my
rewrite. Any follow-up points or debate would be great. Now to address
specific comments:
First off, my apologies for not coding this story as I had intended. Usually I
deliberately post my stories uncoded, but in this case it was an oversight, and
perhaps a code might have encouraged more responses.
- Father Ignatius: You identified the biggest slip-up: "mons." I almost did a
spit-take when I saw your post! Glans, glans, already! I have mons on the
brain.
On the other hand, "for all intensive purposes" is a deliberate malapropism,
for what it's worth. After "mons," you were right to question everything.
As far as editing, consider it done.
Thank you for your compliments.
- El Gato: I'm glad you got the punchline in the title. In effect, Dina is
the "trick pussy" that Bortko brags about.
Please explain 'Gort! Platu, nicto, barradus!' I'm usually pretty happy with
my public-school education, but it does leave me light in terms of Latin.
Thanks for your reading.
- Mat: The confusion during the early dialogue is pretty inexcusable, so I
will add more tags. As improvements, tags are freebies.
"From bathing or otherwise" is lazy writing. I knew it and yet didn't edit
ruthlessly enough.
Regarding the final scene, it was meant only as denouement - as I mentioned
above, the climax is very much the moment that Dina begins making love to her
husband, and the scene in Bortko's bedroom serves only as a contrast, as well
as to show up his earlier boorish talk.
I figure that the story spans about ninety minutes in real-time, and I don't
intend on expanding it to anything resembling erotica. Which leaves the
problem of where to develop the story enough to stand on its own. Perhaps
adding a bit of Dina's perspective to the mix. I guess I envisage her grace as
being the central theme, which cannot be fully expounded or comprehended by the
sinners in the story.
The detail of your comments is really appreciated, and rest assured I'll be
reviewing them another fifteen times or so. You have a great ear for language.
Thanks!
Jeff: You, Des and Mat all correctly identified the opening sentence as a
cop-out. The setting requires more detail. When I conceived of the story, I
had a different lead-in line, but when I set pen to paper, it eluded me and I
couldn't for the life of me improvise another. Right now, it sounds like a bad
joke: "Three guys walk into a bar ..." ("Two guys sitting in a den watching
an Indians game").
Thanks for the compliments.
Gary: I misspelled "yabba-dabba-doo"! You know, I never could get over the
fact that the Flintstones were warmed-over Honeymooners, hence my bad attitude.
Thank you for the generous comments.
- Anne: First, thanks for your comments. I was particularly interested in the
female view of the story, especially after such an atrocious title.
Second, Anne liked it! She really did like it! Woo-hoo!
- AH: I think your suggestion was the one that broke the camel's back, and I
am going to bulk up the sex a bit. How much more do I need, I wonder?
Also, thanks for the positive comments, because both of your observations were
exactly what I was aiming for.
- Des: What's up, too much egg nog while trimming the tree?
You nailed a couple of the shortcomings on the head. And you went overboard on
the praise, bless you. I'm truly grateful that you liked ("appreciated" is a
better word) the characters though, because characterization is something I am
working on, so coming from you, it means a lot.
"Yabba-dabba-doo": You and Mat fingered two connotations of the phrase that I
hadn't even contemplated. I confess, I was going for the most obvious
explanation, that she had overheard the conversation in the den. I didn't,
however, picture her making a big issue out of it in her mind - out to prove
something, was how you described it - but just putting a little good-natured
fear in her man while she made love to him. Almost like a playful absolution.
No way was I imagining her foreknowledge turning her vindictive in the bedroom.
She is certainly the hero here. And then Mat suggested that maybe she didn't
even hear, but maybe that Hank and Dina just typically play Fred and Wilma at
night, hence Hank's mentioning Wilma in casual conversation. I will have both
of these interpretations in mind when I do rewrites. Careful readers, indeed.
I am also changing Dina's name, just to avoid the appearance you suggested.
The Fish Tank is just good. You rock!
Finally, I didn't know you liked to recycle.
From: PleaseCain
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 16 Dec 2001 04:05:48 GMT
Ivan, thanks a lot for your kind comments, I'm getting a big head over here.
I tend to agree about the Crocodile Hunter suggestion. I should cut a bit, and
like you suggested, transfer emphasis over to the parts that matter.
The observation about the women being from the same cookie-cutter is invaluable
to me, because that is the most important thing to avoid in this story - the
lumping together of women - considering the guy-talk at the beginning. Now I
really understand the need to further develop Dina's character.
Thanks again for helping and for the Fish Tank.
Cain
From: Ray
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:28:00 -0500
"Desdmona22" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ...
The following is # 21 in the FishTank. This is a complete story written
by
PleaseCain. The story is 811 words. FishTank guidelines apply:
My apologies to PleaseCain and the group for not making comment to this
story. RL has really kicked me in the softies this last week, and this is
the first I've been back on the web since the tenth.
It's short enough I could hardly 'not' repeat anyway, so I won't add
comments here.
Sorry Cain - no slight intended.
(Now for the other 315 messages and thread changes I still haven't seen.)
Ray
From: El Gato
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:39:29 GMT
- El Gato: I'm glad you got the punchline in the title. In effect, Dina
is
the "trick pussy" that Bortko brags about.
Please explain 'Gort! Platu, nicto, barradus!' I'm usually pretty happy
with
my public-school education, but it does leave me light in terms of Latin.
Thanks for your reading.
Hi Cain;
I don't think it's any form of Latin. Not even pig-latin. ;-)
I'm a fan of Sci-Fi, even old Sci-Fi, and that reference comes from an old
movie called 'The Day the Earth Stood Still'. The association from 'Bortko'
to 'Gort' (the robot) just goes to show how convoluted the process in my
mind really is.<G>
El Gato
From: dennyw
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:46:36 -0800
On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:39:29 GMT, "El Gato" <[email protected]>
held forth, saying:
- El Gato: I'm glad you got the punchline in the title. In effect, Dina
is
the "trick pussy" that Bortko brags about.
Please explain 'Gort! Platu, nicto, barradus!' I'm usually pretty happy
with
my public-school education, but it does leave me light in terms of Latin.
Thanks for your reading.
Hi Cain;
I don't think it's any form of Latin. Not even pig-latin. ;-)
I'm a fan of Sci-Fi, even old Sci-Fi, and that reference comes from an old
movie called 'The Day the Earth Stood Still'. The association from 'Bortko'
to 'Gort' (the robot) just goes to show how convoluted the process in my
mind really is.<G>
It's "Gort! Klaatu barada nicto!" - Gort is the robot, Klaatu is the
name of the alien played by Michael Rennie.
The movie's one of the two better 1950s SF films, imo - the other being
Forbidden Planet - which is based on "The Tempest."
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: Poison Ivan
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 14:26:03 -0500
mat said ...
Yes, but I disagree that it's in the best interests of the story to paint
that
relationship as completely dead. The story is more interesting if Bortko
doesn't take up his girl's advances. You have to wonder what's with him.
Now
suppose Bortko had made the advance and been rebuffed? That would have
been sad
in a third different way.
Yeah, there's several different ways you could end it, which would make the
story very different. I suppose it depends on who do you want the main focus
of the story to be on.
Is the story about the contrast between Hank and Bortko? Or is it about
Dina? Or is it about everybody all together?
If the story is about Dina, about how appearances can be deceiving (which I
think is implied by the title), then I think the contrast between Dina and
Bortko's girl should be stronger.
If the story is about the difference between Hank and Bortko (which is the
most interesting to me), then I'd probably suggest that Hank be a little
more ready to fuck than he is in the story. Actually, now that I re-read the
part where Hank wakes up, maybe he's a little more ready than I thought he
was on first reading. He only complains about being tired twice.
Hank groaned a tired protest.
"Dina," he whined.
Maybe that's once too much? Or maybe softening the words used to describe
the complaints?
It's interesting to think what the story would be like if Bortko's girl was
the one who did the rebuffing. In that case, poor, pathetic Bortko!
Anyway, I'm using far too many words to describe a trivial point. One
problem with the really good stories, it's hard to find suggestions worth
making, and the ones you finally dig up are so subtle that they are hard to
explain.
It's definitely a fascinating story, though, and interesting to talk about.
Poison Ivan
From: PleaseCain
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 17 Dec 2001 00:14:37 GMT
My apologies to PleaseCain and the group for not making comment to this
story. RL has really kicked me in the softies this last week, and this is
the first I've been back on the web since the tenth.
No problem, Ray. Get caught up so you can enjoy the holidays.
Cain
From: PleaseCain
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 17 Dec 2001 00:19:18 GMT
I don't think it's any form of Latin. Not even pig-latin. ;-)
Oof! Which goes to show that Latin and alienspeak are Chinese to me.
C
From: Ray
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:06:59 -0500
Please explain 'Gort! Platu, nicto, barradus!' I'm usually pretty happy
with
my public-school education, but it does leave me light in terms of Latin.
It should be, "Gort! Klaatu barada nicto!" It's the instructions in
alienese
that Klaatu teaches the human woman to say in the event he's captured, from
the
film, "The Day the Earth Stood Still."
Conjugate
wondering how many other replies you'll get about this
From: Gilglim
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 17 Dec 2001 05:10:23 GMT
Always Horny wrote:
More detail right around
this sentence.
"Ahhhhhhh!" he cried, white knuckles grabbing the side of the mattress, her
knees squeezing his torso and her wild body riding his.
Agreed ... this is a nice trigger sentence.
-Gilglim
From: dennyw
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:29:16 -0800
On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:06:59 -0500, "Ray" <ray1031@ cac.net> held
forth, saying:
<[email protected]> wrote in message
It's "Gort! Klaatu barada nicto!" - Gort is the robot, Klaatu is the
name of the alien played by Michael Rennie.
The movie's one of the two better 1950s SF films, imo - the other being
Forbidden Planet - which is based on "The Tempest."
-
-denny-
Admit it, Denny ... You just had a thing for Anne Francis!!!
<g>
What's this 'had' nonsense?
Quiz: From what song is this:
"Anne Francis stars in For-bidden Planet ..."
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 17 Dec 2001 15:57:55 GMT
Ivan writes:
Yeah, there's several different ways you could end it, which would make the
story very different. I suppose it depends on who do you want the main focus
of the story to be on.
Is the story about the contrast between Hank and Bortko? Or is it about
Dina? Or is it about everybody all together?
No reason to exclude .... But if the story is intended to be mostly about Dina,
you'd think she'd appear earlier, or at least get mentioned. (An interesting
idea for a sex story, though: the "main" character never appears. Waiting for
Dina.
If the story is about Dina, about how appearances can be deceiving (which I
think is implied by the title), then I think the contrast between Dina and
Bortko's girl should be stronger.
I'm not sure. Maybe Bortko's girl is missing just that littlest something.
Maybe it's a matter of partner or of fit. Maybe it's chance or circumstance.
If the story is about the difference between Hank and Bortko (which is the
most interesting to me), then I'd probably suggest that Hank be a little
more ready to fuck than he is in the story. Actually, now that I re-read the
part where Hank wakes up, maybe he's a little more ready than I thought he
was on first reading. He only complains about being tired twice.
How important is it to pin it down? But I suppose a story must be about
something.
It's interesting to think what the story would be like if Bortko's girl was
the one who did the rebuffing. In that case, poor, pathetic Bortko!
Yes, but he's something of a clown as it is. Maybe an unintentional clown. Not
necessarily unhappy.
Anyway, I'm using far too many words to describe a trivial point. One
problem with the really good stories, it's hard to find suggestions worth
making, and the ones you finally dig up are so subtle that they are hard to
explain.
It's definitely a fascinating story, though, and interesting to talk about.
I agree. Cain's stories are invariably fascinating. For me Cain's stories also
often a little difficult to get into at first reading. If there's an issue
here, maybe that's it, and maybe it points up my deficiencies as a reader more
than anything else. For me these stories often take shape only after a second
or third reading, or over time.* Still, I'm not sure I should be confused that
first time about who is talking or what exactly is "happening" at the outermost
layer.
- Mat Twassel
*Sort ot like a Tori Amos song. I'm attracted to it right away, but it's not
instantly clear.
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 17 Dec 2001 15:58:17 GMT
Oh,no! Tell me Denny didn't say:
On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:06:59 -0500, "Ray" <ray1031@ cac.net> held
forth, saying:
<[email protected]> wrote in message
It's "Gort! Klaatu barada nicto!" - Gort is the robot, Klaatu is the
name of the alien played by Michael Rennie.
The movie's one of the two better 1950s SF films, imo - the other being
Forbidden Planet - which is based on "The Tempest."
-
-denny-
Admit it, Denny ... You just had a thing for Anne Francis!!!
<g>
What's this 'had' nonsense?
Quiz: From what song is this:
"Anne Francis stars in For-bidden Planet ..."
"More lines from that song, Denny?" Gary asks, placing his head in his hands.
"I suppose I'll have to get the DVD and a raincoat. Having you recite the
movie just sn't the same."
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die. But they do get their comeuppance."
From: dennyw
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:54:13 -0800
On 17 Dec 2001 15:58:17 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan)
held forth, saying:
Admit it, Denny ... You just had a thing for Anne Francis!!!
<g>
What's this 'had' nonsense?
Quiz: From what song is this:
"Anne Francis stars in For-bidden Planet ..."
"More lines from that song, Denny?" Gary asks, placing his head in his hands.
"I suppose I'll have to get the DVD and a raincoat. Having you recite the
movie just sn't the same."
You can even get along w/o the raincoat.
"It's astounding."
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: Ray
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:43:45 -0500
On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:06:59 -0500, "Ray" <ray1031@ cac.net> held
forth, saying:
<[email protected]> wrote in message
It's "Gort! Klaatu barada nicto!" - Gort is the robot, Klaatu is the
name of the alien played by Michael Rennie.
The movie's one of the two better 1950s SF films, imo - the other being
Forbidden Planet - which is based on "The Tempest."
-
-denny-
Admit it, Denny ... You just had a thing for Anne Francis!!!
<g>
What's this 'had' nonsense?
My apologies, sir. I had forgotten the curmudgeon portion of your title and
the fact this means once an opinion, idea, or infatuation is formed, it
becomes a permanent part of your make up.
I would guess my first true exposure to Honey was from Forbidden Planet,
though I probably saw her in Bad Day at Black Rock, and Hired Gun before I
saw FP. (My father had a real thing for westerns).
It was Honey West, of course, the risque publicity stills for it and the
blatant sexuality of the character that cinched it for me. (Of course, the
fact that I was 13/14 at the time and had puberty urges off the scale
contributed greatly I'm sure.) <g>
At 71 this is still one vibrant woman.
(Of course, FP was also the real 'start' for Leslie Nielsen. Being only his
third recognized role - and one of those had been voice over narration)
Ray
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:53:42 -0600
On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:06:59 -0500, "Ray" <ray1031@ cac.net> held
forth, saying:
<[email protected]> wrote in message
It's "Gort! Klaatu barada nicto!" - Gort is the robot, Klaatu is the
name of the alien played by Michael Rennie.
The movie's one of the two better 1950s SF films, imo - the other being
Forbidden Planet - which is based on "The Tempest."
-
-denny-
Admit it, Denny ... You just had a thing for Anne Francis!!!
<g>
What's this 'had' nonsense?
Quiz: From what song is this:
"Anne Francis stars in For-bidden Planet ..."
"More lines from that song, Denny?" Gary asks, placing his head in his hands.
"I suppose I'll have to get the DVD and a raincoat. Having you recite the
movie just sn't the same."
It is only viewed properly in a theater. At midnight :-) Best to
bring friends along.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Nick
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 15 Dec 2001 16:53:39 -0800
Late. Sorry. Can't see a reply from PC, so I assume I'm not too late.
Positive 1: This was a very visual story for me, although cultural
differences distort some of the imagery. In particular the last line:
"Good night," she said at Letterman.
brought them right into my head.
Positive 2: My positive 1 was a bit general, so this is a subset. I
liked the 'wildlife documentary' spoof she gave him as she was
bringing him round. That made her a 3D character.
Improvement 1: There didn't seem to be a strong plotline here. In
particular (and I may have missed something) I didn't think therwe
was enough 'trick pussy' to justify the title.
Improvement 2: Check typos - been said before, I know.
I always though of Wilma as a "bugger me!" kind of girl. Betty seemed
to appear to me in my dreams in a rubber suit. No idea why.
Nick
From: PleaseCain
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 20 Dec 2001 01:29:33 GMT
Thanks for writing, Nick.
The story is definitely a quickie, but it's as long as it needed to be. (Do
you know what I mean? When your mind affixes a coda to it?) It's just not
going to be an opus, yet I need to bolster certain parts so that it is a
satisfying story and not simply a writing exercise.
I think by consensus Betty was the former wild-girl with a past. Now that I
think about it, Barney was probably a pretty dangerous rake in his hungry days.
Here's my take: that they bottomed-out together after a nasty bender, and
rather than go the Sid and Nancy route, they hold onto each other and don't
dare look down while they work their way through AA toward respectability and a
nice home in suburban Bedrock. Then the Flintstones move in next-door,
Hanna-Barbera comes knocking on their door with a multi-million dollar
primetime contract, they have a bright-eyed baby boy, and Boom! American Dream!
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From: Father Ignatius
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2001 23:04:37 +0200
"Desdmona22" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
1.) Great idea.
2.) Great title
2(a) Nice, quirky style of exposition.
2(b) Best story posted all week containing the word "herpetologist."
1. Editing. Just a little.
Typo?
He had a mons?
2.) Too short
"Father Ignatius" <[email protected]> The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 10 Dec 2001 21:36:35 GMT
Father Nat writes:
If you're talking about "intensive," I think it's kinda cute. What stopped me was grimaced used in the tag. Sorta like dimpled last week. Or was that two weeks ago? In any case this doesn't count as one of my two.
- Mat
From: El Gato
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 04:10:23 GMT
Positives.
I liked the little twist at the ending. Who had the 'snapping pussy' and who got 'cold fish'.
Interesting style. Brevity is the sole of wit.<G>
Things to improve.
This was a little confusing, at first. I think a kiss is missing.
"Borkto"? When I read this I couldn't help but think 'Gort! Platu, nicto, barradus!' Kind of distracting.
It's still a very interesting little piece.
El Gato
Pardon me while I go check on another interesting little piece.<G>
From: Desdmona
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 11 Dec 2001 05:14:28 GMT
Oops! An oversight! This story is coded (MF)
Sorry About that!
Des
(Forgive me, I'm grouchy! I just got home from traveling and the 9 ft. Christmas tree I was so proud to have decorated before I left was lying on the floor with broken glass bulbs, mangled lights, and disheveled ribbon)
From: Conjugate
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:58:31 -0500
Desdmona22 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Good heavens! What brought that on? Cats, jealous neighbors, disgruntled dryads, or perhaps an inadequate tree stand? You have my sympathies.
Conjugate
whose cats keep making loud crashing noises that don't seem to be related to anything
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:57:24 -0600
On Tue, 11 Dec 2001 00:53:49 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
Me too. Both of those things :-)
I do need to keep the tree hunting (actually, it is the shiny ornaments and blinky lights) cat away from the tree, but otherwise it is safe enough. No tree falling down so far, anyway.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 11 Dec 2001 17:13:34 GMT
It's hard not to echo the comments of Nat and El Gato. Except for the few critical typos, this piece is a delight to read - wonderfully inventive, witty, fluid - and there's a nice subtle tension.
I was disappointed in the ending, though. Maybe I was expecting too much. The tension seemed to disappate with the onset of the sex, though that section was nicely written, as was the final segment, which didn't really add enough. A twist, sure, but it was too small. I was left feeling that this wasn't quite a story, more an exercise in spinning the Flintstones.
I know, that's not really a suggestion. Maybe I can only repeat (again) Nat's suggestion: it needs to be longer. Something else has to happen. It might not be that the something else has to happen at the end. The additional something could be in the middle or in the beginning. (And maybe it's really there, and I just missed it.)
I agree with El Gato, too, that the beginning is confusing. It's a little hard to keep the two characters straight. It occurred to me that that might be intentional, but given the way the story goes, and given how brief it is, I think it's important for the reader to see these guys separately, even if their banter seems to be largely undifferentiated at heart. The names are different enough, so maybe putting the name in each dialogue tag would help. Another possibility it to give each character some single important characteristic, and include that in the early tags.
- Mat Twassel
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 2001 12:39:34 -0600
On 10 Dec 2001 04:01:56 GMT, [email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote:
Let's see, I really liked the whole humorous feel of the story. Nice and relaxed, everyone getting along, and Hank and Dina getting along very well.
I liked the names. I've never known a Bortko.
The sex scene seemed a bit abrupt. Not sure if you want to make it have more details, since the setup for it is fine. Just something that I like to see more of.
The setting doesn't seem perfectly clear from the start. After a bit, I get the idea that the men are watching baseball on TV, but not at the start. A few more references and details on the setting might make it seem more obvious.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 11 Dec 2001 20:55:40 GMT
1. <Jim Carrie>I liked it!</Jim Carrie>
2. Her "Yabba-dabba-do" gave the impression she overheard the conversation, without saying so outright. Sneaky.
1. Spalling was as bed as mine.
There is no #2.
Too late.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die. But they do get their comeuppance."
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/
http://www.asstr.org/~Gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 12 Dec 2001 14:40:12 GMT
Mat writes:
One phrase in there I found a little jarring:
Straddling him, she lifted her satin nightshirt and guided his prick between her legs, damp from bathing or otherwise.
It's the "from bathing or otherwise." I'd be content with just "damp" moved in front of legs. If we leave it as is, shouldn't the narrator know what the damp is from? If we leave it, shouldn't it be "from bathing and otherwise"?
To expand slightly on this thought: One thing I wonder about is that Bortko's first comment seem to come out of nowhere. Now that might be right, but we really don't know. Does it make a difference? I think it might. What if there were a few sentences before to make this clear? For example, Bortko could pat his stomach and say "Dina outdid herself again," and then ask "Gettin' any?" and Hank could answer with a sheepish grin. Something like that might set us up better. Or to keep the strength of the initial comment, this material could be inserted just after it. "What do you mean?" Hank asked. Bortko patted himself on the tummy. "Dina makes such a mean casserole - I was just wondering if you were gettin' any these days." Hank answered with a sheepish grin. Etc.
Another thing I wonder about is the order of the final sections. What would be the effect of splitting Hank's section? Have him go up to bed. Cut to the Bortko scene. And then come back to Hank and the sex scene. Just a thought.
One last comment. Gary likes that Dina's "Yabba dubba do" hints that she had overheard the talk in the den. But another possibility is that that's the way it is between this couple. Are these readings compatible? Would it be better if we had a much stronger much earlier hint that Dina did overhear? I think it might, because that way some different tension would be created: how will Dina react? As it is, it sort of comes out of nowhere. There's a charm to that tactic, but I don't know that it's the best choice. I think I'd enjoy "seeing" Dina's side of it earlier on.
- Mat Twassel
From: Anne747
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 14 Dec 2001 01:58:43 GMT
Argh, being late, and ever so slightly tipsy, I'm going to cheat a little (okay, a lot).
I liked it. A sex story with a moral (of sorts).
I agree with most of the other comments. I feel that it should be longer. However, if you did that you would have to cut back on some of the 'cutesy' references.
So, perhaps the length is just right.
Anne (who now plans to drop into bed)
To reply by mail - remove the b in the address
Anne's Erotic Story Archive - http://annejet.pair.com/ Free Story FAQ - http://annejet.pair.com/fsfaq/
From: Always Horny
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2001 08:29:05 +0100
Desdmona22 wrote:
1) 2 positive comments
Nice story. Light humor, well done.
I like the girl in that story :)
2) 2 things to improve
It shouldn't just when things are getting interesting! More detail right around this sentence.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Desdmona
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 15 Dec 2001 03:27:15 GMT
I'm in awe of the author/artist partly because he can write effective flash fiction and I can't. Damn!
I like Hank! I like that he watches baseball until the last out, even if he's sure of the outcome. I like that he tries to watch Letterman, but drifts off. I like that he notices things like Wilma Flintstone's kicking feet. I like that he remembers little things like closing a window so his wife doesn't have to worry about it. And I especially like Hank because he doesn't need to boast about women, because he appreciates what he has at home, and yet he pacifies his friend by allowing his friend to do so. Hank's a good friend. A good husband. A good man.
Bortko personifies "frat boy that refuses to grow up." He wants a trick pussy, he puts his cigarette butts in the beer cans, he thinks any woman that doesn't fit the poster model is a cold fish, he can't even make a commitment to a baseball game, and he doesn't even try to watch Letterman. (Geesh!)
Dina is a woman I can relate to. She likes to recycle! She likes to cook! She likes to fuck!
Three distinct characters, defined in subtle terms, all of this out of a story that's around 800 words. Another awe-inspiring talent.
Minor peccadillo: the name Dina. It's awfully close to Dino and with the Flintstone references; I'm wondering if this is intentional or just a coincidence.
I'm not sure I like the opening line; it sounds like a cheating way to set a scene, like I'm about to read a play. Someone else suggested making a few minor changes in the beginning to the dialogue to make the guys more distinguishable. I think they are distinguishable, but not at first read, therefore I like this idea and was thinking that if this were done then there would be no need for the first line.
The other thing I'm still debating about (in my head) is if Dina did hear the conversation between Hank and Bortko. Because she says, "Yabba-dabba-do" I'm inclined to believe she does overhear it. I guess part of me doesn't want that to be the case because then it infers that she's out to prove something with the sex. If she doesn't hear it, then it means that this is who she really is, the sexy wife, and I really want her to be the sexy wife and not the wife who has something to prove. Or maybe I'm reading too much into it ...who knows! <smile>
Thanks Cain! You've proven once again what a talented writer you are! I for one am a devoted fan.
Des
From: Poison Ivan
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2001 18:41:02 -0500
I think flash fiction needs a strong ending, a beat-you-over-the-head kind of point to make. A too-subtle ending gets lost. I'm going to disagree with Mat about the ending in this story - I liked it. To me, it said someone who has too much advice about sex is probably the one having an unsatisfactory sex life. I love flash fiction, it's exciting to read prose that is so tightly written that you can't find a spare word. It's awesome to read someone who has the skill to pull it off.
Criticisms ... this is very minor, but I wonder if the crocodile hunter stuff goes on just a tad too long? The story is so quickly-paced everywhere else, so it felt like the story hesitated a little. I might try to prune one sentence somehow, although I'd hate to lose any of the jokes. Perhaps if you took some of the other advice and padded the story by 100 words, it wouldn't seem like it was paced differently than the rest of the story? Like I said, really minor.
My other suggestion is probably more controversial. In both couples, the woman is the sexual initiator. Bortko's honey doesn't succeed, but she appears to be trying. Both men are ready to call it quits for the day. Why this similarity? Is Dina just a little bit more aggressive than Bortko's girl? Or is Hank just a little more willing to take advantage of the opportunity? I think if the women (or the men) were differentiated a little bit more in the final scenes, it might make for an even stronger ending. If it were me, I would probably make Bortko's girl back off and remove the hint of foreplay (the circling of his nipple, the playing with the hairs on his stomach), which would make their relationship feel more dead sexually.
I think the real strength of the story comes from the dialog. It sounds very natural, exactly the kind of responses you'd expect from a couple guys watching a baseball game, or a Dina picking up empties, or a couple getting ready to fall asleep for the night. And, of course, that fun stuff between Hank and Dina while they were in bed!
And the best part, of course, is that I got to get a first look before everyone else in the Fish Tank. What a treat!
I'm not sure if any of this is at all helpful, but at least it was a day late!
Poison Ivan
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 16 Dec 2001 03:52:45 GMT
Poison Ivan writes:
Okay, but I don't remember saying that I didn't like it. I do remember saying something about how having the Hank segment split might be better. I'd like the story to end with "Yaba dabba do." That wouldn't be too subtle, now would it?
Another quibble: whose sex life is unsatisfactory? Bortko has his chance, and he turns it down. He'd rather sleep than fuck. It's his wife who seems to have and unsatisfactory sex life.
For me the only problem was that the wife was speaking with this Australian accent before she had anything "Australian" to say. I thought Australian accent was peculiar until I got to the next sentence. Some slight rearranging here might make it easier for the reader to understand what's going on.
Yes, but I disagree that it's in the best interests of the story to paint that relationship as completely dead. The story is more interesting if Bortko doesn't take up his girl's advances. You have to wonder what's with him. Now suppose Bortko had made the advance and been rebuffed? That would have been sad in a third different way.
Good comments, though. The more I look at this story the more I like it.
- Mat Twassel
From: PleaseCain
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 16 Dec 2001 03:54:58 GMT
Thanks to all of this week's participants, and to Des and Ivan; every comment was appreciated. The astute readers identified every weakness I had feared, and then gave me more to ponder.
The story was inspired by a special someone, and you know how such stories seem to write themselves. By the preponderance of suggestions, the story clearly needs to be longer, that as it stands the reader feels a little gypped, although I'm still not certain where to flesh it out. In fact, I thought their bedroom talk might be pushing the upward-limits, unless everyone is a Crocodile Hunter fan like me; I was pleased that at least it wasn't boring.
The piece was intended as humor, and as something of a paean to wedded romance. The latter point was clear enough, and the former was an apparent failure. For instance, in my mind, his final exclamation in bed isn't orgasmic, but was meant as aaahhhhhh! as in, say, Butch and Sundance jumping from the cliff, as in a man feeling quite satisfied with himself in bed before the woman takes it up five notches and seizes control of the situation, something of a sexual coup d' etat (a wonderfully humbling surprise I hope every guy out there experiences at least once). And yes, that is how many men talk, and yes, you can't judge a book by its cover.
I think I may bat your suggestions around for a few weeks, and then resubmit my rewrite. Any follow-up points or debate would be great. Now to address specific comments:
First off, my apologies for not coding this story as I had intended. Usually I deliberately post my stories uncoded, but in this case it was an oversight, and perhaps a code might have encouraged more responses.
- Father Ignatius: You identified the biggest slip-up: "mons." I almost did a spit-take when I saw your post! Glans, glans, already! I have mons on the brain.
On the other hand, "for all intensive purposes" is a deliberate malapropism, for what it's worth. After "mons," you were right to question everything.
As far as editing, consider it done.
Thank you for your compliments.
- El Gato: I'm glad you got the punchline in the title. In effect, Dina is the "trick pussy" that Bortko brags about.
Please explain 'Gort! Platu, nicto, barradus!' I'm usually pretty happy with my public-school education, but it does leave me light in terms of Latin.
Thanks for your reading.
- Mat: The confusion during the early dialogue is pretty inexcusable, so I will add more tags. As improvements, tags are freebies.
"From bathing or otherwise" is lazy writing. I knew it and yet didn't edit ruthlessly enough.
Regarding the final scene, it was meant only as denouement - as I mentioned above, the climax is very much the moment that Dina begins making love to her husband, and the scene in Bortko's bedroom serves only as a contrast, as well as to show up his earlier boorish talk.
I figure that the story spans about ninety minutes in real-time, and I don't intend on expanding it to anything resembling erotica. Which leaves the problem of where to develop the story enough to stand on its own. Perhaps adding a bit of Dina's perspective to the mix. I guess I envisage her grace as being the central theme, which cannot be fully expounded or comprehended by the sinners in the story.
The detail of your comments is really appreciated, and rest assured I'll be reviewing them another fifteen times or so. You have a great ear for language. Thanks!
Jeff: You, Des and Mat all correctly identified the opening sentence as a cop-out. The setting requires more detail. When I conceived of the story, I had a different lead-in line, but when I set pen to paper, it eluded me and I couldn't for the life of me improvise another. Right now, it sounds like a bad joke: "Three guys walk into a bar ..." ("Two guys sitting in a den watching an Indians game").
Thanks for the compliments.
Gary: I misspelled "yabba-dabba-doo"! You know, I never could get over the fact that the Flintstones were warmed-over Honeymooners, hence my bad attitude.
Thank you for the generous comments.
- Anne: First, thanks for your comments. I was particularly interested in the female view of the story, especially after such an atrocious title.
Second, Anne liked it! She really did like it! Woo-hoo!
- AH: I think your suggestion was the one that broke the camel's back, and I am going to bulk up the sex a bit. How much more do I need, I wonder?
Also, thanks for the positive comments, because both of your observations were exactly what I was aiming for.
- Des: What's up, too much egg nog while trimming the tree?
You nailed a couple of the shortcomings on the head. And you went overboard on the praise, bless you. I'm truly grateful that you liked ("appreciated" is a better word) the characters though, because characterization is something I am working on, so coming from you, it means a lot.
"Yabba-dabba-doo": You and Mat fingered two connotations of the phrase that I hadn't even contemplated. I confess, I was going for the most obvious explanation, that she had overheard the conversation in the den. I didn't, however, picture her making a big issue out of it in her mind - out to prove something, was how you described it - but just putting a little good-natured fear in her man while she made love to him. Almost like a playful absolution. No way was I imagining her foreknowledge turning her vindictive in the bedroom. She is certainly the hero here. And then Mat suggested that maybe she didn't even hear, but maybe that Hank and Dina just typically play Fred and Wilma at night, hence Hank's mentioning Wilma in casual conversation. I will have both of these interpretations in mind when I do rewrites. Careful readers, indeed.
I am also changing Dina's name, just to avoid the appearance you suggested.
The Fish Tank is just good. You rock!
Finally, I didn't know you liked to recycle.
From: PleaseCain
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 16 Dec 2001 04:05:48 GMT
Ivan, thanks a lot for your kind comments, I'm getting a big head over here.
I tend to agree about the Crocodile Hunter suggestion. I should cut a bit, and like you suggested, transfer emphasis over to the parts that matter.
The observation about the women being from the same cookie-cutter is invaluable to me, because that is the most important thing to avoid in this story - the lumping together of women - considering the guy-talk at the beginning. Now I really understand the need to further develop Dina's character.
Thanks again for helping and for the Fish Tank.
Cain
From: Ray
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 10:28:00 -0500
My apologies to PleaseCain and the group for not making comment to this story. RL has really kicked me in the softies this last week, and this is the first I've been back on the web since the tenth.
It's short enough I could hardly 'not' repeat anyway, so I won't add comments here.
Sorry Cain - no slight intended.
(Now for the other 315 messages and thread changes I still haven't seen.)
Ray
From: El Gato
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:39:29 GMT
"PleaseCain" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
<Snip>
Hi Cain;
I don't think it's any form of Latin. Not even pig-latin. ;-) I'm a fan of Sci-Fi, even old Sci-Fi, and that reference comes from an old movie called 'The Day the Earth Stood Still'. The association from 'Bortko' to 'Gort' (the robot) just goes to show how convoluted the process in my mind really is.<G>
El Gato
From: dennyw
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 12:46:36 -0800
On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:39:29 GMT, "El Gato" <[email protected]> held forth, saying:
It's "Gort! Klaatu barada nicto!" - Gort is the robot, Klaatu is the name of the alien played by Michael Rennie.
The movie's one of the two better 1950s SF films, imo - the other being Forbidden Planet - which is based on "The Tempest."
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: Poison Ivan
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 14:26:03 -0500
mat said ...
Yeah, there's several different ways you could end it, which would make the story very different. I suppose it depends on who do you want the main focus of the story to be on.
Is the story about the contrast between Hank and Bortko? Or is it about Dina? Or is it about everybody all together?
If the story is about Dina, about how appearances can be deceiving (which I think is implied by the title), then I think the contrast between Dina and Bortko's girl should be stronger.
If the story is about the difference between Hank and Bortko (which is the most interesting to me), then I'd probably suggest that Hank be a little more ready to fuck than he is in the story. Actually, now that I re-read the part where Hank wakes up, maybe he's a little more ready than I thought he was on first reading. He only complains about being tired twice.
Maybe that's once too much? Or maybe softening the words used to describe the complaints?
It's interesting to think what the story would be like if Bortko's girl was the one who did the rebuffing. In that case, poor, pathetic Bortko!
Anyway, I'm using far too many words to describe a trivial point. One problem with the really good stories, it's hard to find suggestions worth making, and the ones you finally dig up are so subtle that they are hard to explain.
It's definitely a fascinating story, though, and interesting to talk about.
Poison Ivan
From: PleaseCain
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 17 Dec 2001 00:14:37 GMT
No problem, Ray. Get caught up so you can enjoy the holidays.
Cain
From: PleaseCain
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 17 Dec 2001 00:19:18 GMT
Oof! Which goes to show that Latin and alienspeak are Chinese to me.
C
From: Ray
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:06:59 -0500
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Admit it, Denny ... You just had a thing for Anne Francis!!! <g>
Ray
From: Conjugate
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:41:51 -0500
It's a misquote.
PleaseCain <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
It should be, "Gort! Klaatu barada nicto!" It's the instructions in alienese that Klaatu teaches the human woman to say in the event he's captured, from the film, "The Day the Earth Stood Still."
Conjugate
wondering how many other replies you'll get about this
From: Gilglim
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 17 Dec 2001 05:10:23 GMT
Always Horny wrote:
Agreed ... this is a nice trigger sentence.
-Gilglim
From: dennyw
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 01:29:16 -0800
On Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:06:59 -0500, "Ray" <ray1031@ cac.net> held forth, saying:
What's this 'had' nonsense?
Quiz: From what song is this:
"Anne Francis stars in For-bidden Planet ..."
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 17 Dec 2001 15:57:55 GMT
Ivan writes:
No reason to exclude .... But if the story is intended to be mostly about Dina, you'd think she'd appear earlier, or at least get mentioned. (An interesting idea for a sex story, though: the "main" character never appears. Waiting for Dina.
I'm not sure. Maybe Bortko's girl is missing just that littlest something. Maybe it's a matter of partner or of fit. Maybe it's chance or circumstance.
How important is it to pin it down? But I suppose a story must be about something.
Yes, but he's something of a clown as it is. Maybe an unintentional clown. Not necessarily unhappy.
I agree. Cain's stories are invariably fascinating. For me Cain's stories also often a little difficult to get into at first reading. If there's an issue here, maybe that's it, and maybe it points up my deficiencies as a reader more than anything else. For me these stories often take shape only after a second or third reading, or over time.* Still, I'm not sure I should be confused that first time about who is talking or what exactly is "happening" at the outermost layer.
- Mat Twassel
*Sort ot like a Tori Amos song. I'm attracted to it right away, but it's not instantly clear.
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 17 Dec 2001 15:58:17 GMT
Oh,no! Tell me Denny didn't say:
"More lines from that song, Denny?" Gary asks, placing his head in his hands. "I suppose I'll have to get the DVD and a raincoat. Having you recite the movie just sn't the same."
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die. But they do get their comeuppance."
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/Clitorides/Silver_Clitorides.htm
From: dennyw
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 11:54:13 -0800
On 17 Dec 2001 15:58:17 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) held forth, saying:
You can even get along w/o the raincoat. "It's astounding."
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: Ray
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Mon, 17 Dec 2001 16:43:45 -0500
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
My apologies, sir. I had forgotten the curmudgeon portion of your title and the fact this means once an opinion, idea, or infatuation is formed, it becomes a permanent part of your make up.
I would guess my first true exposure to Honey was from Forbidden Planet, though I probably saw her in Bad Day at Black Rock, and Hired Gun before I saw FP. (My father had a real thing for westerns).
It was Honey West, of course, the risque publicity stills for it and the blatant sexuality of the character that cinched it for me. (Of course, the fact that I was 13/14 at the time and had puberty urges off the scale contributed greatly I'm sure.) <g>
At 71 this is still one vibrant woman.
(Of course, FP was also the real 'start' for Leslie Nielsen. Being only his third recognized role - and one of those had been voice over narration)
Ray
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 18:53:42 -0600
On 17 Dec 2001 15:58:17 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote:
It is only viewed properly in a theater. At midnight :-) Best to bring friends along.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Nick
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 15 Dec 2001 16:53:39 -0800
Late. Sorry. Can't see a reply from PC, so I assume I'm not too late.
Positive 1: This was a very visual story for me, although cultural differences distort some of the imagery. In particular the last line:
brought them right into my head.
Positive 2: My positive 1 was a bit general, so this is a subset. I liked the 'wildlife documentary' spoof she gave him as she was bringing him round. That made her a 3D character.
Improvement 1: There didn't seem to be a strong plotline here. In particular (and I may have missed something) I didn't think therwe was enough 'trick pussy' to justify the title.
Improvement 2: Check typos - been said before, I know.
I always though of Wilma as a "bugger me!" kind of girl. Betty seemed to appear to me in my dreams in a rubber suit. No idea why.
Nick
From: PleaseCain
Re: Trick Pussy, by PleaseCain
Date: 20 Dec 2001 01:29:33 GMT
Thanks for writing, Nick.
The story is definitely a quickie, but it's as long as it needed to be. (Do you know what I mean? When your mind affixes a coda to it?) It's just not going to be an opus, yet I need to bolster certain parts so that it is a satisfying story and not simply a writing exercise.
I think by consensus Betty was the former wild-girl with a past. Now that I think about it, Barney was probably a pretty dangerous rake in his hungry days. Here's my take: that they bottomed-out together after a nasty bender, and rather than go the Sid and Nancy route, they hold onto each other and don't dare look down while they work their way through AA toward respectability and a nice home in suburban Bedrock. Then the Flintstones move in next-door, Hanna-Barbera comes knocking on their door with a multi-million dollar primetime contract, they have a bright-eyed baby boy, and Boom! American Dream!
Thanks, Nick.
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