The following is #25 in the FishTank. I've waited awhile to post something
of
my own, but finally decided it was time. I guess I can no longer expect
all the
other writers to put their work under the microscope if I wasn't willing
to do
it as well.This is a complete story with a word count of 2097. The
FishTank
guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat!
The FishTanks submissions and comments are still being held at:
http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base
If you have any questions or have something you'd like to submit, please
contact me at [email protected].
Ray stood over the work table preparing, a steel in one hand and a long
kitchen boning knife it the other as he prepared for the job at hand.
Sliding the blade first on one side of the sharpening steel, then the other,
applying a final razor-like hair-splitting edge to the blade to make the
trimming perfect and sure.
"Time for work he muttered," beginning to read.
The Think System (MF cheating, mast)
By Desdmona
Two positives:
First and foremost, I loved her romantic mindset as the story progressed,
the fact that there was no romance, or she didn't think there was any
romance, at home. Of her over-whelming desire for romance, or more romance,
or any romance in her life, until she began creating it for herself by
transposing it from her books to Bernand. I also liked the way reality crept
back into the situation in an awakening way, rather than simply as a let
down.
Second: I was first going to list this as a downer, but changed my mind
after finishing the story. The first paragraphs and actually having a
conversation during sex. ("How dissatisfying and poor a lover is this
schmuck that she feels the need to talk during what is supposed to be a
rousing experience?" ) - but then, it all clicked beautifully. There were a
couple of lines that worked so beautifully, but I've had my two so I'll
leave them for others.
Two areas for improvement:
First: That glaring thing that leaped out and tried to choke the shit out
of me:
Opening paragraphs, "I tried to see Bernanrd's face as the motel sign
flickered through a crack in the curtain. Flashes of neon pink illuminated
the room."
Entering the motel room: " ..., I might have slung open the curtains to
allow the late day sun to brighten the built up gloom,"
Neon lights, though very visible in sunlight, fail to win against sunlight
in providing illumination. With the sun still out and providing illumination
the neon sign should not have provided a pale pink illumination.
Second: less bothersome item:
Bernanrd's eyes: She took special note of his eyes while they were adding
to his leer over coffee, romantically attributing them as being 'chocolate
brown', then two paragraphs later, after her bold 'fuck' comment, she
describes them as 'really rather ordinary', and finally in the midst of
pitiful performance they are more 'muddy brown water than rich, deep coffee'
in color. The second of the two descriptions, even considering what she's
describing, is still at a point where her mind is in a more romantic mode
and 'rather plain' seems a bit too much drop too early. They were part of
her allure which, delussional or not, would likely have been a bit more
maintained at that point in the story.
There were so many 'nice little touches' adding a final spice to the story
and by themselves revealing the so much of the situation, action and even
personalities that I could easily write a glowing review longer than the
story. If it is not apparent by now - I enjoyed it "muchly" <g>
(Last thing - do a word for word read through, for missing words. I noticed
two.)
Returning the knife to it's butcher's block and the steel to it's drawer,
Ray found he was not the least dissappointed that it's use had not been
necessary. Rather than surgery, all he had been called on to do was lance a
boil or two. Adding the story to his favored collection in his notebook, he
carried the other he had read to the end of the counter and deposited them
into file #13. Tomorrow is trash day, he thought.
Ray
From: Conjugate
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:57:23 -0500
Well, lucky for me that I have some time handy. And since I'm just about
the first one, (only Ray got in before me, except for propagation delay) I
don't have much to do to avoid repeats.
The following is #25 in the FishTank. I've waited awhile to post something
of
my own, but finally decided it was time.
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
First, it was a nice, brief tale that did what it was meant to do very
compactly. I enjoyed it. I disagree with Gary about the neon sign (I took
his remark as not positive); I thought it very clearly set the scene and the
mood.
I also liked some of the metaphors. Comparing the sex to being inside a
washing machine, for instance, was both clear and gave a sort of "housewife
dreary" tinge to it.
Under 2 things to improve, I'm finding it hard (no, not like that; this is
clearly not a stroke story and it did not arouse me - I'm not sure if that's
a criticism or not. It didn't need to, as I enjoyed it anyway). But, there
is this line of dialogue:
"I'm fucking you my dear. It's a pretty substantial clue."
One of my pet peeves is no comma before a noun of address. That is, say,
"I'm fucking you, my dear." I know, it is extremely minor, not to say
insignificant. At any rate, thank you for sharing the story. I enjoyed it.
Conjugate
From: Nicholas Urfe
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 28 Jan 2002 20:06:19 -0800
Two positives:
Bad sex, well done. It's underused as a technique for building
frustration, in my opinion, and the sight of his ass in the mirror on
the ceiling is just - brilliantly sordid. Aces, especially when the
mirror comes into play in the conclusion. Lovely symbol and imagery
work: a neat little dance on the lip of Self and Other, or some such
critical turn of phrase.
Also: it's polished to a high sheen now - good voice, solid structure,
nice details: the Music Man, the dry heat from the coffee cup. The
balance between romance, grotty reality, and the synthesis of the two.
It's a good, solid story.
Let's dig deeper and make it better, maybe.
Bernard is a cypher; a tool. He doesn't need to do a damn thing
differently than he does, but he needs to go about it a different way.
Some way that we can see the human being beneath the plot necessity.
Especially his dialogue: he has his tics, but they are limited and too
heavily played at the moment: "My dear," especially, is overused.
- Also, addressing Bernard - tackling him head-on - will address another
problem the story has right now: it feels a bit too pat; a bit too
moral. Wife cheats; has lousy sex; learns lesson. (The lesson she
learns - which is wicked, wonderful, delightful - is what keeps the
story from being substantially harmed by this arc.) Making Bernard
more real, more of a person, less of a catalyst and reactant, will go
a long way towards making the story more complex, more real, less pat.
And since that techinically was one comment, I'll make a second: for
all the polish, there's a little trimming to be done. Ask some hard
questions about the necessity of some of the adjectives and adjectival
phrases: "like a caffeinated aphrodisiac," is nice, but save it for
some other story; "feminine" isn't needed with "oil." That sort of
thing.
- But comparing it all to being "stuck inside a washing machine on
heavy"? Aces, again.
And one last laginappe: "The Thinking System" is better than "The
Think System" (though I'm pretty sure the latter was just a typo). But
(not to harp): think about what it means to Bernard.
Still: good, good, solid story. Nummies.
Best,
- n.
"Ships came from Baharna on that island, one being due to return
thither in only a month, and Ngranek is but two days' zebra-ride from
that port. But few had seen the stone face of the god, because it is
on a very difficult side of Ngranek, which overlooks only sheer crags
and a valley of sinister lava."
a very difficult side:
http://www.asstr.org/~nickurfe/ift/
http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Meme Mispelt
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:14:42 -0500
On 28 Jan 2002, Desdmona22 wrote:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat!
I'll reverse the order this time, and try to start sour and end sweet.
I'm going to cheat a little (by now that should be no surprise) and harp
on the neon again, for two reasons:
"If I told you I was a happily married woman, would you believe me?" I tried to
see Bernard's face as the motel sign flickered through a crack in the curtain.
Flashes of neon pink illuminated the room.
First: this clearly says to me that it is night, or anyway dark out. In
the flashback, it's late afternoon. This is not irreconciliable; a line
about the midwinter sun setting quickly or Marion (?) worrying about how
long she's been away. (But I bet the Professor didn't "waste" a lot of
time on foreplay.)
But what really bugs me about the neon, is: it's too easy. It's like
country music shorthand for cheap and tawdry, and I would prefer that the
narrator either be ironically aware of that even as she notices it, or for
her to notice a fresher detail with the same information.
Second:
Not exactly the lyrical sounds of passionate love. But it's what I wanted. Or
so I thought an hour ago when I'd agreed to follow him here. It just wasn't
turning out to be the quixotic liaison I'd imagined.
I found the word "quixotic" really jarring here, and you sent me to ye
olde dictionary to double-check. It does say "romantic" yes, but I think
it usually carries a connotation of futility that is probably not what you
intended.
Positive one:
stew. I hadn't intended on something as drastic as adultery.
I found the story as a whole entirely too believable and almost
uncomfortably acute. I was once almost betrayed in remarkably similar
fashion by a woman I was living with (she didn't go through with it, at
the last minute, and came home in furious tears). It was, um, quite an
object lesson. I thought the frustration and desperation were nicely
observed and credible.
Positive two:
reflection of Bernard and me. The coupling we'd just completed hadn't been
arousing, but I found something increasingly erotic about the woman staring
back at me.
Very unexpectedly for me by this point in the story, it all of a sudden
gets really sexy. Who knew? I especially liked her sense that seh was
directing another person, and being surprised when the 'other' complies:
completely free from the black lace. I willed her fingers to pinch the
hardening nipple, and watched as they complied. My heart raced when they
proceeded to maul the entire breast.
(Could have done with more of this and less of Bernard!)
The following is #25 in the FishTank. I've waited awhile to post something of
my own, but finally decided it was time. I guess I can no longer expect all the
other writers to put their work under the microscope if I wasn't willing to do
it as well.This is a complete story with a word count of 2097. The FishTank
guidelines apply:
Positives:
Good concept. Nice framework for a short story. Readers can identify,
because it may well have happened, or almost happened, to them. Despite
what is often posted here, infidelity with a stranger will usually be
squalid and generate buckets of guilt. The realistic elements of this
story are excellent. Some great lines, already mentioned by others.
The washing machine is a killer.
Things to improve:
Sorry. I have more than two. I will expand in detail, because I think
this is a good story that could be great.
The Think System (MF cheating, mast)
Unconvincing, uninspiring title. You can do better.
"If I told you I was a happily married woman, would you believe me?"
I tried to see Bernard's face as the motel sign flickered through a
crack in the curtain. Flashes of neon pink illuminated the room.
Not comfortable starting a story with dialogue. It would start better
if you set an opening scene in the sordid motel room and then have her
put her question as a second paragraph.
I could pick out a book, sit in the attached caf� and lose myself in
romance. My intent was to stay away for a time. Let Ethan stew. I
hadn't intended on something as drastic as adultery.
Leave that there for a moment. I want to come back to it.
"I don't usually drink coffee." I spoke hesitantly as if my words
held the weight of a courtroom confession. He merely shrugged.
Ditto.
"Could that mean you have other ... vices." He leered at me over his
cup with chocolate brown eyes, the same color as his coffee. His
short, dark hair with touches of gray around his ears added to his
professor mystique.
Ah. Now. Des, no. I realise you want the story short, and that you
don�t want to lose yourself in face-to-face detail before you get to
the point of the story. But you just can�t get away with it when it�s
that slick and that quick. Motivation is crucial. That's the glue for
this story and any story.
It wouldn�t happen. 99 out of 100 women would guffaw, spit up coffee
and leak it out through the nose in an embarrassing incident if a
pompous older guy with a goatee beard said that to them off the cuff.
Stop shaking your head. You know I�m right.
Presumptuously, I offer this constructive suggestion. Rather than have
her muddled and uncertain about what she�s doing and how she�s behaving,
how about she�s steaming mad with Ethan? How about she�s got this little
bad bug running around her bloodstream and she�s actually out there
looking for someone to cheat with? Then, who she cheats with is not
important. It�s the cheating that�s the point.
The rest of the story fits beautifully with such a motivational change.
In fact I think it makes it better. It certainly gives better ironic
flavour to her choice of partner.
And although I�m repeating, you also have to look a bit harder at
punctuation.
From: Selena Jardine
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 29 Jan 2002 14:11:05 -0800
This isn't a complete review of the story. I just wanted to mention
for those who thought it ought to be "The Thinking System" rather than
"the Think System" that the phrase comes from The Music Man. (I
actually think it might be The Think Method, but I wouldn't swear to
it.) Professor Hill "teaches" the children to play their instruments
by the Think Method, which of course means he doesn't have to do sweet
f.a. Just like our "professor" in the story. So it works rather well
in the end, if you've seen the Music Man four thousand times, and
perhaps not if you haven't.
From: celia batau
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:31:08 -0800
hi Des!
we're actually going to try to do this. :) finally. :)
pozzie one: the shifts in perception between fantasy and ugly reality were
amazing. she starts by looking for a fantasy book and ends up finding
herself. :) also reflected in the changes in Bernard's eyes as things
happen. and how she renamed them both at moments.
pozzie two: the sense of self-possesion she aquires during something that
would normally cause self-forgetting. :) her remarks in the overhead mirror,
her descriptions of herself and bernard, and the particular moment that one
special word is yelled out.
neggie one: the first paragrah is kind of awkward. it has two different
ideas being crammed into one space. maybe break them apart or arrange the
info so the two flow together?
neggie two: the description of the motel room. ack. ok. we've read billions
of descriptions of bad motel rooms (with peeling wallpaper ack!), so it's
really cliched out and doesn't even really fit with the shifting perceptions
of the rest of the story (except for the "overused mattress")
we liked the story a lot. :) yay Des! :)
-cb
celia batau's story site: http://www.myplanet.net/pinataheart/stories.htm.
So it is in
my silence
that I have become
who I am,
and no one even
has an idea
of this monster
hidden behind
the blade.
-Megan
The following is #25 in the FishTank. I've waited awhile to post something
of
my own, but finally decided it was time. I guess I can no longer expect
all the
other writers to put their work under the microscope if I wasn't willing
to do
it as well.This is a complete story with a word count of 2097. The
FishTank
guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat!
The FishTanks submissions and comments are still being held at:
http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base
If you have any questions or have something you'd like to submit, please
contact me at [email protected].
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 30 Jan 2002 00:54:18 GMT
Good story, especially the mirror scene and the opening, which I think is a
home run, very strong. I would hack away some of the language in both however,
but I say that about everything. Your theme and treatment of adultery stand
head and shoulders above what we normally see around here. The
confessional-romance tone works for me, as does the device of Bernard - not to
say that he is a strong character or that his unctuousness on their meeting
doesn't make me want to barf, but that is the whole point, isn't it, that he is
an empty vessel?
That said, it seemed that in the section during and immediately following sex
where you disassemble the schmuck, the matter-of-fact litany of shortcomings
goes a bit into overkill. Some of this effect is desirable toward her
self-discovery, but when every aspect of the surroundings and the partner turns
suddenly horrid, you risk sounding comicky (my new word) and ruining the
credibility of the beginning.
Excuse me, I'm going to read again about mauve fingertips and mirrors. Talk
amongst yourselves.
C
From: Selena Jardine
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 29 Jan 2002 17:44:43 -0800
I think that a lot of what needs to be said has already been said, so
I'll stick to the bush leagues for my first outing in the Fish Tank.
(I assume you play baseball in the Fish Tank?)
Nitpicks:
1) Do half-price bookstores have attached cafes?
2) I think you "muster" passion (or troops, or whatever), rather than
mustering it up.
Nice moments:
1) Her wedding ring pinches her finger when he squeezes her hand, and
instead of regretting her decision, she merely wishes she'd removed
the ring. Beautiful. Perfect.
2) All of a sudden, in the cheap mirrors in a cheap hotel, she comes
into focus for the first time, for herself and consequently for us.
It's the first time we know her hair color, the color or style of
anything she's wearing, the texture of her skin. Marvelous.
I really enjoyed this one, and there were flashes of the great.
Thanks for letting us read and critique it - and letting me start my
"internship". Keep swinging!
From: Always Horny
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:29:46 +0100
Desdmona22 wrote: The Think System (MF cheating, mast)
Positives:
A different tale and point of view. Very different. I like how you describe the
slip into sordid-ness. (Actually this is what I'd expect of most adulteries).
This is a refreshing look at a common occurrence.
The mirror in the ceiling is a nice touch. Not very likely in RL IMO, but nice
and well used.
Overall, the story does a good job of depicting the mess she got herself in, and
finds a different place to tell it from: not just stroke, not just sordid, but a
nice blend of sordid-plus-detachedly-funny.
Improvables:
For my taste the narrator's voice is a little too "academic". The voice of a
literature teacher, not that of a real everyday person (ahem. better what I say
here). I am not sure whether it is the vocabulary, or too exact/complex
sentences or what, but it just jars me from this sordid context. The vocabulary
contains many two-dollar words, and feel a little overly precious/mannered.
In a few places, this context of "I feel like an entomologist outside of myself
looking mercilessly at the whole scene" feels a little bit overdone. I suspect
this could be countered by telling us more about how she feels. Feels, not
thinks about herself. (Not sure I'm very clear here)
I feel that the scene when they meet in the library does need some further work
to feel right. Can't say why though.
This expression does not feel right to me:
The cool lubricant pooled with feminine oil as my fingers trailed the path
"feminine oil" feels so, er, inappropriate. But maybe it is just me being ESL.
Thanks for sharing the story.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 30 Jan 2002 21:27:05 GMT
I just wanted to mention
for those who thought it ought to be "The Thinking System" rather than
"the Think System" that the phrase comes from The Music Man. (I
actually think it might be The Think Method, but I wouldn't swear to
it.) Professor Hill "teaches" the children to play their instruments
by the Think Method, which of course means he doesn't have to do sweet
f.a. Just like our "professor" in the story.
Thanks, Selena. I had wondered about Des's title, and I'm light on my American
musicals. Learn something new every day.
I have an idea, but what exactly is "sweet f.a."? And how does Professor
Hill's Think System/Thinking Method pertain to Des's story? Is it that the
narrator makes her own self-discovery in spite of the guy she picked up?
Cain
From: Ray
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:15:48 -0500
I just wanted to mention
for those who thought it ought to be "The Thinking System" rather than
"the Think System" that the phrase comes from The Music Man. (I
actually think it might be The Think Method, but I wouldn't swear to
it.) Professor Hill "teaches" the children to play their instruments
by the Think Method, which of course means he doesn't have to do sweet
f.a. Just like our "professor" in the story.
Thanks, Selena. I had wondered about Des's title, and I'm light on my
American
musicals. Learn something new every day.
I have an idea, but what exactly is "sweet f.a."? And how does Professor
Hill's Think System/Thinking Method pertain to Des's story? Is it that
the
narrator makes her own self-discovery in spite of the guy she picked up?
"sweet f.a. as used most probably means that Prof Hill, in the Music Man
didn't have to do 'sweet fuckin' anything' to teach the kids to play their
instruments, as they 'learned' by the 'think system' .... as for how it
pertains, it's a referal to the fact that Des' Prof. (though it was not
established that her was a Prof or anything - she simply attributed
"Lori/Miriam" simply attributed Prof status to him based on his appearance
and her romantic notions) - but it relates only in that Des' Prof also
didn't have to do diddly squat to get what he wanted.
Ray
From: Selena Jardine
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 30 Jan 2002 20:07:02 -0800
Thanks, Selena. I had wondered about Des's title, and I'm light on my American
musicals. Learn something new every day.
Hey! That's my motto! ("Learn something ..." rather than "Light on
American musicals.") (Though the latter has a snappy ring to it.)
I have an idea, but what exactly is "sweet f.a."?
Sweet fuck-all, or as they say in Italian, dolce far niente. Ain't
doin nuffin.
And how does Professor
Hill's Think System/Thinking Method pertain to Des's story? Is it that the
narrator makes her own self-discovery in spite of the guy she picked up?
Yes! In part. Part of it is that there are Music Man references
throughout the story (Marian the Librarian, bells all around but I
never heard them ringing, Professor Hill, 76 trombones leading the big
parade, etc.). Part of it is that in The Music Man, the children who
are left alone to learn their instruments actually ... sort of ... learn
them, and inspiration does the rest. A scoundrel couldn't stand in
their way. As I said, it works very nicely if you've seen The Music
Man four thousand times, and perhaps not as nicely if you haven't.
This isn't a complete review of the story. I just wanted to mention
for those who thought it ought to be "The Thinking System" rather than
"the Think System" that the phrase comes from The Music Man.
It's "Think System," and let me just give with a great big "D'oh!" on
that one. Seeing as how I adore Robert Preston and was almost but not
quite in a production of the dam' thing.
So can I amend? The Music Man stuff works, but it isn't integral to
the story yet - the "Think System" needs to come into the text itself.
Not as a direct reference, no; something more oblique. Maybe to do
with Bernard's philosophy, or something. It needs to have more of a
connection. But I'm starting to blither.
Otherwise: what Spin said. He's too clever by 'alf, that Spin is.
Best,
- n.
"His vision was an outpouring of hatred against capitalists,
clergymen, and Junkers, mixed with a contempt for the Social Democrats
and a working class that had foolishly supported them. Forty years in
the future, he bleakly saw an obedient, emasculated proletariat
enslaved by industry and the church."
eighty years later:
http://www.asstr.org/~nickurfe/ift/
http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 31 Jan 2002 16:41:43 -0800
Thanks, Selena. I had wondered about Des's title, and I'm light on my American
musicals. Learn something new every day.
Hey! That's my motto! ("Learn something ..." rather than "Light on
American musicals.") (Though the latter has a snappy ring to it.)
I have an idea, but what exactly is "sweet f.a."?
Sweet fuck-all, or as they say in Italian, dolce far niente. Ain't
doin nuffin.
And how does Professor
Hill's Think System/Thinking Method pertain to Des's story? Is it that the
narrator makes her own self-discovery in spite of the guy she picked up?
Yes! In part. Part of it is that there are Music Man references
throughout the story (Marian the Librarian, bells all around but I
never heard them ringing, Professor Hill, 76 trombones leading the big
parade, etc.). Part of it is that in The Music Man, the children who
are left alone to learn their instruments actually ... sort of ... learn
them, and inspiration does the rest. A scoundrel couldn't stand in
their way.
That's not how I remember it; it seemed pretty clear to me that Marian
the Librarian had given them some music lessons, in order to save said
scoundrel's bacon. But I haven't seen it nearly four thousand times,
so I could be mistaken.
Later,
Jacques
From: Father Ignatius
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:02:42 +0200
Father Nat, leering, approaches Selena and stands too close to her.
"Hello there, my dear," he oozes revoltingly,exhaling his lunchtime garlic
down her cleavage. She smiles politely, through gritted teeth, and leans
away from him as far as she can. He compensates by moving forward, and
she's pinned. Very neatly done, if I say so myself.
He wags a finger at her patronisingly, in exactly the manner that makes you
want to snap the damn' thing right off and stuff it up his ... Nevermind.
"It seems to me you're a newbie, am I right? Recently taken to hanging
around this august establishment making intelligent, informed posts - for a
sheila, at any rate? You are by way of being an author, yes?"
He plumps down next to her on the banquette, puts his hand on her knee,
peeks briefly down her d�colletage and beams at her encouragingly. She
gulps, pats her pearls, and clears her throat.
"Well," she begins, "it all began some years BD ..."
"Father Ignatius" <[email protected]>
http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Stories.html
The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Selena Jardine
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 31 Jan 2002 10:16:45 -0800
Father Nat, leering, approaches Selena and stands too close to her.
"Hello there, my dear," he oozes revoltingly,exhaling his lunchtime garlic
down her cleavage.
"Oh, Father, " says Selena, meeting his eyes. Her voice is honey, cut
with Primofiori lemon. "If you were going to have the pasta aglio e
oglio at the trattoria down the street, you should have invited me. I
adore garlic."
He hesitates for a moment, considering the propriety of a
reverse-retroactive invitation, then launches:
"It seems to me you're a newbie, am I right? Recently taken to hanging
around this august establishment making intelligent, informed posts - for a
sheila, at any rate? You are by way of being an author, yes?"
He plumps down next to her on the banquette, puts his hand on her knee,
peeks briefly down her d�colletage and beams at her encouragingly. She
gulps, pats her pearls, and clears her throat.
"Well," she begins, "it all began some years BD ..."
"I applaud your perceptivity, Father. Yes, I am an author. I have
only put one thing out on the net, however, and it was years ago, and
it was - rough, and - " Her voice catches. She is in obvious
distress. Her curls are in fetching disarray. She shakes her head,
makes a visible effort to collect herself, and absently removes Father
Nat's hand from her upper thigh. "In any case, I've taken to standing
in the shadows, becoming accustomed to the atmosphere, and now I'm
trying my hand at a few posts - how kind of you to say that they're
clever enough for you. I'll be jumping into the FishTank on February
11."
Father Nat, leering, approaches Selena and stands too close to her.
"Hello there, my dear," he oozes revoltingly,exhaling his lunchtime
garlic
down her cleavage.
"Oh, Father, " says Selena, meeting his eyes. Her voice is honey, cut
with Primofiori lemon. "If you were going to have the pasta aglio e
oglio at the trattoria down the street, you should have invited me. I
adore garlic."
He thought, "Hey, no fair. They're not allowed fighting back. Are they?"
And then he thought, "Hmmm. Turn-on. I like bit of resistance to crush
down. As long as she doesn't overdo it, of course. That would be
unbecoming."
He hesitates for a moment, considering the propriety of a
reverse-retroactive invitation, then launches:
"It seems to me you're a newbie, am I right? Recently taken to hanging
around this august establishment making intelligent, informed posts - for
a
sheila, at any rate? You are by way of being an author, yes?"
He plumps down next to her on the banquette, puts his hand on her knee,
peeks briefly down her d�colletage and beams at her encouragingly. She
gulps, pats her pearls, and clears her throat.
"Well," she begins, "it all began some years BD ..."
"I applaud your perceptivity, Father. Yes, I am an author. I have
"That's 'perception,' my child." He interrupted her gently but firmly.
Although he spoke kindly, he nevertheless made the mental note, "That's
one."
only put one thing out on the net, however, and it was years ago, and
it was - rough, and - " Her voice catches. She is in obvious
distress. Her curls are in fetching disarray. She shakes her head,
He discerned the direction of her thoughts. A flash of irritation flickered
across his finely-chiselled features. "Damn these wimmen," he thought to
himself, "they can't hold two thought together in their pretty little heads
if they think their hair's off.
"Straightening up their hair is all they ever do.
Why don't they straighten up the mess that's inside?"[1]
Thinking only to smooth their discourse, he stroked her hair, exposing one
shell-like ear designed by God for the reception of sweet nothings, and lost
focus.
"What's that funny 1 in square brackets?" she asked, distracted. Father Nat
flung an irritated "You see?" glance at Uther, who annoyingly took not the
slightest notice.
makes a visible effort to collect herself, and absently removes Father
Nat's hand from her upper thigh. "In any case, I've taken to standing
Coming back to earth, he present-mindedly put it back, patting firmly.
Already, she was over-doing the resistance. Not a good sign. "That's two,"
he thought.
in the shadows, becoming accustomed to the atmosphere, and now I'm
He nodded sympathetically. "I fully understand you apprehension," he
murmured into her shell-like ear. "Quite, quite pink," he thought drifitng
off again. "<ahem>The atmosphere hereabouts here can be torrid, torrid I
say, from time to time. Fortunately, there is a small sprinkling of
right-minded people ... well, there's me, anyway ... always prepared to take a
moderate, reasoned approach. As for the rest, well, you know, fuck 'em.
Pack of bitches."
trying my hand at a few posts - how kind of you to say that they're
clever enough for you. I'll be jumping into the FishTank on February
11."
And Father Nat said ...
...impatiently, "Yes, yes, I know. I am fully informed of these matters.
I'm pulsating with anticipation. Have you completed the first draft of your
little offering yet? Are you yet prepared to tell us a little about it?
And, after all that talking, are you not thirsty? May I force some brut
down that swan-like neck of yours?"
She looked at him, startled. Eventually, she pulled herself together and ...
[1] "A Hymn to Him," from My Fair Lady by Alan Jay Lerner, based on
Pygmalion by George Bernard Shaw.
"Father Ignatius" <[email protected]>
http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Stories.html
The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: oosh
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:15:23 GMT
"Well," she begins, "it all began some years BD ..."
"I applaud your perceptivity, Father. Yes, I am an author. I have
"That's 'perception,' my child." He interrupted her gently but firmly.
Although he spoke kindly, he nevertheless made the mental note, "That's
one."
"I'm so sorry, Father," said Selena, waiting until her interlocutor
had quite, quite finished. "Perceptivity. According to the
American Heritage Dictionary, noun form of 'perceptive'. The ability
to perceive, or keenness in discernment, rather than the perception
itself. A fine distinction, but mine own. No, no, don't apologize,
dear Father, you're all red! ... As I was saying, I'd
only put one thing out on the net, however, and it was years ago, and
it was - rough, and - " Her voice catches. She is in obvious
distress. Her curls are in fetching disarray. She shakes her head,
He discerned the direction of her thoughts. A flash of irritation flickered
across his finely-chiselled features. "Damn these wimmen," he thought to
himself, "they can't hold two thought together in their pretty little heads
if they think their hair's off.
"Straightening up their hair is all they ever do.
Why don't they straighten up the mess that's inside?"[1]
[Two thought? wondered Selena. Don't they do plurals around here like
everyone else does?]
Thinking only to smooth their discourse, he stroked her hair, exposing one
shell-like ear designed by God for the reception of sweet nothings, and lost
focus.
"What's that funny 1 in square brackets?" she asked, distracted. Father Nat
flung an irritated "You see?" glance at Uther, who annoyingly took not the
slightest notice.
"Oh, I see," she said, amused. "You can't do superscript, can you?
Well, not everyone can get it up all the time. In ASCII, I mean.
It'll be all right on the night."
He nodded sympathetically. "I fully understand you apprehension," he
murmured into her shell-like ear. "Quite, quite pink," he thought drifitng
off again. "<ahem>The atmosphere hereabouts here can be torrid, torrid I
say, from time to time. Fortunately, there is a small sprinkling of
right-minded people ... well, there's me, anyway ... always prepared to take a
moderate, reasoned approach. As for the rest, well, you know, fuck 'em.
Pack of bitches."
Torrid atmospheres with sprinklings? she thought. I'll have to bring
my umbrella next time I go to the ball game at the FishTank.
And Father Nat said ...
...impatiently, "Yes, yes, I know. I am fully informed of these matters.
I'm pulsating with anticipation. Have you completed the first draft of your
little offering yet? Are you yet prepared to tell us a little about it?
Selena lowered her eyes to the ... amazing ... leopard-print carpet. "I
have finished a first draft. It's a story of desire rather than lust;
desire as the prime mover that gets us from one place to another every
moment of our lives. But," and here Selena raised her eyes to meet
his with a wicked smile, "there is a healthy dose of lust in the story
as well."
And, after all that talking, are you not thirsty? May I force some brut
down that swan-like neck of yours?"
She looked at him, startled. Eventually, she pulled herself together and ...
... suggested at least some glasses. Paper cups? No? Well, when in
ASSD ... "And I am thirsty," she said, casting a speculative eye at
the Father's brut force, and then at the other partygoers. This was
the after-lunch crowd, was it? Hmmm. Candy is dandy, but ...
"So, Father," she said, "I see you do footnotes. Irresistible ..."
From: oosh
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 03:34:29 GMT
Negative (tentatively): I think a "tiff" is a quarrel. You leave someone in
a huff after a tiff - at least, that's so in British English.
Positive:
I liked the architecture of this story. The five sections were well
proportioned, each given enough time. I felt it was well paced. I also felt
that each section contributed to an overall unity. I wouldn't want any
section amplified or slimmed down; nor would I want to read a sequel. It's
just perfect for what it needs to say.
Then, I liked the rhythm of the language. The sentence lengths were well
mixed, and often the paragraphs were beautifully shaped and balanced -
particularly the ones at the end of the bookshop scene. I didn't feel there
was an ounce of fat on them.
And I liked the glimpses of realism, so humorously portrayed. I shall never
forget the accordion-like condom (I loved the pathos); nor the squelched
coffee; and I loved the evocation of the battered aftermath.
Some have commented on the neon sign not being visible in daylight. I
wouldn't know. I don't know just where it was, nor how much daylight was
left. It didn't bother me at all. Although dreary motel rooms may be a
cliche to some, I personally didn't feel that it was overdone in this case.
I could detect some exterior allusions, in the use of names and reference
to TV programmes. I am used to not getting these. I didn't understand the
relevance of the title. That's not a criticism - that's just me!
O.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 18:45:28 -0600
It is hard not repeating, especially since others have posted on
this so well.
I like how the opening half presented a lovely illusion. The sort
of infatuation and fantasy which can sometimes cloak the character of
a new love. It doesnt always happen that the illusion is revealed so
quickly as this.
The Robert Preston Music Man references are interesting. Now, I
didn't get it right off either, it was the kind of thing which
required spending time with it to recognize. I saw each one, 76
trombones is too hard to miss if you know it. Bernard doesn't quite
have the Professor's air, but that doesn't matter. As long as Lori
(Marian :-) imagines he does, it seems that he is as wonderful as she
imagines.
One extra good thing: I loved the last lovely solo sex scene. She
gets to make up for his failings, and find her own sexual faith(?)
restored. Another man might have apologized for his own frailty; any
male is subject to that risk of sudden slumber after such an intense
experience. Bernard didn't, and seemed unaware of his failings. Lori
found her own fine way to get past that. Very inspirational.
I'm slow on finding any negatives not already mentioned. The coffee
shop within the bookstore may not be common, and it wasn't clear to me
that it was in the same place until they left the place. That I
think needs a little more explanation there.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Desdmona
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 03 Feb 2002 06:52:55 GMT
First, I'd like to thank everyone who took the time out of his or her busy life
to comment on my story. I appreciate all your efforts.
I'll start with the title, "The Think System" is derived from "The Music Man"
as Selena explained. For those of you not familiar with the musical, Professor
Harold Hill is a con man. He travels to small towns and sells the town on
music/marching bands to be the saving tool to prevent the youth in their town
from becoming corrupt. (Irony: Con man preaching about corruption.) He collects
money to buy uniforms and instruments, only he doesn't buy the goods - he
pockets the money. He sells the students on "The Think System." The idea is
that they don't have to be taught music because it's already in their heads.
They just have to think about it! (Of course in the musical the professor
changes his ways due to the love of a good woman. Yeah! Marian.)
I really like this title, although I have to agree with Nicholas Urfe that some
hint to the title needs to be incorporated into the story itself. I was trying
to be subtle. Sometimes subtlety just doesn't work. But the idea is Lisa
doesn't have to be taught or shown that she's sexy. It's all in her head; she
just has to think about it. Ultimately, Lisa realizes she's the one who is
responsible for how she feels. It's not her husband, or the heroes in books, or
even another man that determines if she's sexy. It's her! I'm convinced that
being sexy is 80% cerebral, and if you don't think you're sexy then nothing
anyone else says or does will make you think you are.
Ray~ You're right about the lighting, and believe it or not I gave thought to
this before posting the story. I let myself believe that if a room is mostly
dark with curtains closed, then a neon light that flickers near the window
would illuminate the room, but reality is, the light of day would also filter
in. So I must fix this. (Easy enough I think.)
I'm thinking about the eye coloring comment. I think by just getting rid of the
word chocolate, it would solve the problem.
Conjugate (and others) ~ Egads! I hate punctuation. I'm awful at it. But alas,
I suppose it's a necessary evil to overcome, and I shall strive to do better.
Nicholas~ I just knew someone would say I'd used, "My dear" too much. On one of
my read throughs, I thought the same thing. Believe it or not, I trimmed a
couple. A couple more can be trimmed. I hadn't thought the story as being
especially morally pat, but I think my thoughts are skewed by how I perceived
Lisa as opposed to how I wrote her. In the beginning, there was to be a lot
more guilt - tons of it. So she learns something about herself but at what cost?
Somewhere along the writing, I switched priority. I admit I like where I took
it, but I can see how it sums up too easily. And I agree that some changes to
Bernard might just be the key.
Meme~ I can't tell you what a shock it was for it to be pointed out how cliche
the hotel was. You (and others) are absolutely correct about it, but I didn't
see that while I was writing. I didn't do the hotel tawdry and cheap on
purpose. When I write a scene like this, I visualize it and then describe what
I've visualized. I'm not entirely convinced that the hotel shouldn't be this
cliche. There aren't too many hotels that have mirrors on the ceiling and the
mirrored ceiling is paramount to this story. However, there's really no reason
for it to be so far down the cliche path ... so I think I will be able to
compromise on this suggestion.
Quixotic is often used in romance novels. I like the word! My proofreader
rapped my knuckles though because I added it after he'd done his read through
and he agreed with you. Stretching the limit of definition. {sigh} I still like
the word ... I'll use it in a different story.
Dr. Spin~ you wound me to the quick man ... uninspiring title, you say? (See
above about the title) But darn it, I hate titles. (maybe even more than
punctuation) This one I really gave some considerable thought to. Psst! Maybe
Shon Richards can help. (grin)
OK! OK! You're right about the leering, vices segment. I'd bust a gut laughing
at some fool who said something like that to me. However on some small
defending level, Lisa isn't me, she's a woman who reads a lot of romance novels
(Oh wait, so do I) and she'd find this sort of conversation in said novels. But
I agree, it needs reworking. Hmm! Now this idea about making Lisa steaming mad
at Ethan. This I like. Very much! I'll get right on that one.
Celia~ I just love it when someone "gets" something I've written. And you did!
Thanks so much for your comments. (See above about the cliche hotel room) And
that dastardly first paragraph, well it's on my list of reworkings. I'm so glad
you decided to take part in the FishTank.
Cain~ only a guy who can write complete stories in 500 words or less
(magnificently, I might add) could suggest trimming one of my shortest stories
ever. As I've already said I hadn't realized that I'd done Bernard to such an
extreme or the hotel so cliche. I definitely will soften up on both. Can I
borrow your red pen?
Selena~ I think we're going to find ourselves very lucky that you've decided to
join our little group. Thanks! About the attached cafe, I had mixed feelings. I
wanted it to be a half-price store to show that Lisa tries not to spend money
needlessly, but I also didn't want Bernard and Lisa to go to a coffee shop away
from the bookstore because in my mind, if Lisa had the chance to be alone, sit
in a car, think about what she was doing, she would back out. But if she were
caught up in the moment, she would rush through it. Maybe instead there could
be an Espresso Bar outside the bookstore. Those are common enough to make it
work, I think.
Jeff~ Lots of men do seem to fall asleep right after sex, and unfortunately
many men think that sex is all about their orgasm and nothing else. But times
they are a changing! I personally think that if I don't have an orgasm during
sex, it's just as much my fault as it is my partners. So maybe Lisa's heart
really wasn't in to the sex with Bernard. Maybe she was wracked with guilt. Or
maybe she wasn't strong enough or self-confident enough to contribute more.
Want to bet if she had sex with him again, that would change? The "Music Man"
references are definitely relative to one's familiarity with the musical.
Oosh~ It's funny you should mention about the balancing of sentences within
paragraphs. I bet you think of this as an odd thing to notice. But the truth is
it's something I notice when I'm reading as well. Sometimes I'll add another
sentence, not because I want to convey more information, but because it just
seems like the reading pattern calls for it. I like knowing I'm not the only
one out there that looks at such things.
"Huff" is the word I meant, not tiff. Thanks for calling that to my attention.
And I'm so glad you've decided to wade into the FishTank with us.
AH~ I really understand what you mean about needing a bit more of her feelings.
I already have a couple of ideas where to fix this a bit. I have to say I'm
fine with the idea that you found the narrating voice a bit too academic. My
goal is to show an intelligent woman, who reads a lot, fantasizes a lot, but
finds herself lacking when she compares herself to the women she reads about. I
think people who read a lot have a bigger vocabulary. I also like the "outside
looking in" feeling. I was thinking that someone who commits adultery, even
though they have very strong feelings about it being wrong, might find it
easier to appease their guilt if they look at in a very detached way. And the
other biggie is that self-discovery can't really happen until you take a closer
look, so I wanted the contrast to be drastic. (On a personal note: I hope
things are improving on the RL front for you and yours AH ...thanks for taking
the time to comment now.)
Denny~ What a card you are! Of course Harold Hill was mentioned.
Once again, thanks to each and every one of you for participating, I hope
you'll find the time to continue to do so in future weeks!
Des
(On her way back to the writing table ... can someone get me a coffee?)
From: Shon Richards
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:55:00 GMT
Hello Des,
The reason I didn't read this earlier is blah blah blah. There, got my
excuse out of the way. :)
The title reminded me of the Music Man and his con and well, I got off
on another tangent. See, the Music was in their heads, right? Well, I
thought the guy was in her head too. He was perfect, except for the whole
rolling over and snoring bit. He reminded me of a masturbation fantasy; his
moods came and went on a whim. He was a fucktoy. Slow, then fast, and as
soon as orgasm hit, he almost dissappeared. I was just about convinced she
was delusional when you upsetted my theory by having her masturbate and
rediscover her own sexuality. Pooh! I hate being that off base.
I loved Caffienated Aphrodisiac.
I like her self-discovery but complaining about red sheets didn't seem
like an adultry offense :) That was one of the reasons I thought it was all
a daydream.
I noticed other people didn't like how trashy the hotel was. Maybe its
my area, but it felt accurate to me :)
Nice story, even if I got it wrong :)
Shon
From: Always Horny
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:07:43 +0100
Desdmona22 wrote:
I have to say I'm fine with the idea that you found the narrating voice a
bit too academic. My goal is to show an intelligent woman, who reads a lot,
fantasizes a lot
And that is well done.
I guess that my point is that the sentences feel a bit too complex for
someone's own thoughts, especially when wanking off.
Oh well, tastes ...
And the other biggie is that self-discovery can't really happen until you
take a closer look, so I wanted the contrast to be drastic.
I don't know if any cartoons by Claire Bretecher are available where you live,
but you would love her series about the daily life of her "modern liberated
heroines", where this contrast is well depicted. With lots of tenderness in
depicting the derisory and pathetic aspects.
(On a personal note: I hope things are improving on the RL front for you
and yours AH ...thanks for taking the time to comment now.)
Thanks for the concern. Things did improve a little bit right now, although not
in a very encouraging way: my father feels better for time being, but that's
only because they have suspended all treatments until they understand what's
causing the nasty reaction. They're still performing on him more exams, scans,
fibroscopy all that stuff.
Unfortunately, the outcome is certain, the only unknown is how long it will take
and how uncomfortable this is going to be for him. Rough cruise ahead for
everyone.
I thought of myself as a pretty hardened and hardboiled guy after all the wars,
injuries and stuff, but ...
Worst for me is that unlike war, now there is nothing I can do that will change
the outcome, or even delay it. The only little bit of comfort is that this is
the time I can repay some of what he gave me.
We are all very lucky that he keeps his morale strong & fights on. He knows he's
fighting a desperate battle, but he is not giving up. The way I know him, I
expect that he will keep fighting on to the last second. That helps him, and
that helps us too. Hopefully it will also help his treatments.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Meme Mispelt
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:20:20 -0500
On 3 Feb 2002, Desdmona22 wrote:
Meme~ I can't tell you what a shock it was for it to be pointed out how cliche
the hotel was. You (and others) are absolutely correct about it, but I didn't
see that while I was writing. I didn't do the hotel tawdry and cheap on
purpose. When I write a scene like this, I visualize it and then describe what
I've visualized. I'm not entirely convinced that the hotel shouldn't be this
cliche. There aren't too many hotels that have mirrors on the ceiling and the
mirrored ceiling is paramount to this story. However, there's really no reason
for it to be so far down the cliche path ... so I think I will be able to
compromise on this suggestion.
Ouch - I didn't mean to be shocking, sorry. I didn't have a problem with
the hotel being cheap and tawdry, just with a few of the specifics.
Actually, round here anyway, some of the sleazier motels do have mirrors
on the ceiling in a 'honeymoon suite' (there was one that used to
advertise a heart-shaped waterbed too, and my girlfriend back then and I
used to joke about going there). And I could see your nasty little
professor making a big deal of how he wasn't making a big deal of forking
over the dough for the red carpet treatment, too.
Re: Bookstore/Cafe - if it were in a little strip of shops such as you
find in university towns, the coffee place could be just a few steps
away; no time alone in a car to have second thoughts.
From: dennyw
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:09:02 -0800
On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:07:43 +0100, [email protected]
(Always Horny) held forth, saying:
Unfortunately, the outcome is certain, the only unknown is how long it will take
and how uncomfortable this is going to be for him. Rough cruise ahead for
everyone.
I thought of myself as a pretty hardened and hardboiled guy after all the wars,
injuries and stuff, but ...
Worst for me is that unlike war, now there is nothing I can do that will change
the outcome, or even delay it. The only little bit of comfort is that this is
the time I can repay some of what he gave me.
We are all very lucky that he keeps his morale strong & fights on. He knows he's
fighting a desperate battle, but he is not giving up. The way I know him, I
expect that he will keep fighting on to the last second. That helps him, and
that helps us too. Hopefully it will also help his treatments.
It's never easy - you've my sympathies. Even though the outcome is the
same for us all, eventually, having to actually face it and deal is
always very rough - no matter how 'hardened' we think we are.
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 04 Feb 2002 20:21:53 GMT
Des,
Just to clarify, I wasn't criticizing the length of your story, or your
storytelling either, because you sustained my interest throughout. Nothing
wrong with long stories, and conversely, stories can suffer from lack of meat;
for instance, my last Fish Tank submission suffered from a lack of
characterization. (I do have problems with most long stories on the newsgroup,
but that's another Fish to fry.)
Rather, my comments regarded particular phrases, especially in my favorite
parts: the opening and the mirror section. For example, from the opening I
would chop "But he didn't know me" and "much-needed," because the phrases don't
do anything, and you want your introduction to be as sleek and powerful as
possible. It's nitpicking, but the opening is your shop window.
I hope you submit this again. You have such a flair for storytelling.
Cain
From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 4 Feb 2002 21:48:49 -0800
First, I'd like to thank everyone who took the time out of his or her busy life
to comment on my story. I appreciate all your efforts.
He collects
money to buy uniforms and instruments, only he doesn't buy the goods - he
pockets the money. He sells the students on "The Think System." The idea is
that they don't have to be taught music because it's already in their heads.
They just have to think about it! (Of course in the musical the professor
changes his ways due to the love of a good woman. Yeah! Marian.)
He actually does deliver the instruments and uniforms. (Remember the
song about the Wells Fargo Wagon? That's what it brought to River
City.) The con part is the promise to teach the kids to play them,
without which the townsfolk would never have agreed to buy them. He
makes his money just the way an honest travelling salesman (is there
such a thing?) would: by collecting a commission from the companies
that make the instruments and the uniforms.
Selena~ I think we're going to find ourselves very lucky that you've decided to
join our little group. Thanks! About the attached cafe, I had mixed feelings. I
wanted it to be a half-price store to show that Lisa tries not to spend money
needlessly, but I also didn't want Bernard and Lisa to go to a coffee shop away
from the bookstore because in my mind, if Lisa had the chance to be alone, sit
in a car, think about what she was doing, she would back out. But if she were
caught up in the moment, she would rush through it. Maybe instead there could
be an Espresso Bar outside the bookstore. Those are common enough to make it
work, I think.
A large second-hand bookstore, or one that had both new and used
books, might conceivably include a cafe; in fact I'm pretty sure that
I've been in one that did, in Harvard Square. Couldn't tell you the
name, though. I think Louis's Bookstore Cafe in Baltimore sells used
books as well as new ones, but again I'm not certain of that.
Later,
Jacques
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 05 Feb 2002 06:00:56 GMT
Selena~ I think we're going to find ourselves very lucky that you've
decided to
join our little group. Thanks! About the attached cafe, I had mixed
feelings. I
wanted it to be a half-price store to show that Lisa tries not to spend
money
needlessly, but I also didn't want Bernard and Lisa to go to a coffee shop
away
from the bookstore because in my mind, if Lisa had the chance to be alone,
sit
in a car, think about what she was doing, she would back out. But if she
were
caught up in the moment, she would rush through it. Maybe instead there
could
be an Espresso Bar outside the bookstore. Those are common enough to make
it
work, I think.
A large second-hand bookstore, or one that had both new and used
books, might conceivably include a cafe; in fact I'm pretty sure that
I've been in one that did, in Harvard Square. Couldn't tell you the
name, though. I think Louis's Bookstore Cafe in Baltimore sells used
books as well as new ones, but again I'm not certain of that.
Later,
Jacques
I'll admit to being WAY behind the power curve on the story (sorry, sorry,
sorry Des. Did I say I was sorry ...., really, really, sorry?). However, the
bookstore/coffee shop thing immediately caught my eye. Here, in the land of
REAL coffee addicts, err, drinkers (we pshaw upon Seattle-ites) most bookstores
either HAVE coffee shops inside their stores or are attached to either a small
coffee shop OR have a coffee hut parked in their parking lot. They go out to
the lot, get their coffee, go back into the store's cushy sofa area. That's
for the used stores. The new stores ALL have coffee shops inside (with the
exception of the mall-based chains). The locals and the national bookstores
all have coffee centers (usually with pastries, soups, and live accoustical
music on Sunday afternoons. Last Sunday was, I think, classical guitar
afternoon at the local Borders, but I could be wrong).
Anyway, I digress (yeah, big flipping surprise). Coffee and bookstores go
together. You can easily put one with the other.
Alexis
(not really being helpful, but the 'coffee' thing called to me. Goodness
gracious I need some quality sleep)
"Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire."
- Steven Wright
I'll admit to being WAY behind the power curve on the story (sorry, sorry,
sorry Des. Did I say I was sorry ...., really, really, sorry?).
Darn it! Now I have to decide if this is an appropriate amount of groveling or
should I expect some ripping of clothes and gnashing of teeth to show real
repentance. [grin} Nah, I guess this will do, unless of course the ripping of
clothes means we can go shopping and buy new clothes.
<snipping the obvious caffiene induced explanantion>
Anyway, I digress (yeah, big flipping surprise). Coffee and bookstores go
together. You can easily put one with the other.
In fact there is a half-price bookstore and coffee shop near me. It's not as
posh as the new bookstores but it still serves up a mean black coffee with one
artificial sweetener.
Some things are indicative to certain areas and I guess the real question is
how universal you want a story to be. I'll give this some thought. (After the
shopping!)
Des
From: Desdmona
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 05 Feb 2002 13:34:49 GMT
Thanks for the clarification Cain. It helps me to understand a point when
examples are given. I guess I'm one of those show-n-tell kind of gals! [smile]
Des
From: Desdmona
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 05 Feb 2002 13:38:12 GMT
He actually does deliver the instruments and uniforms. (Remember the
song about the Wells Fargo Wagon? That's what it brought to River
City.) The con part is the promise to teach the kids to play them,
without which the townsfolk would never have agreed to buy them. He
makes his money just the way an honest travelling salesman (is there
such a thing?) would: by collecting a commission from the companies
that make the instruments and the uniforms.
Really? Isn't it funny how we can watch something a zillion times and still
miss an important point like this? It makes me want to watch it just one more
time to see what other things I missed.
Thanks Jacques.
Des
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 08 Feb 2002 23:45:31 GMT
Des,
I just watched "The Music Man" and reread your story, and I appreciate it even
more, particularly the conclusion. Plus, now you look like a 28-year-old
Shirley Jones.
Cain
From: Desdmona
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 10 Feb 2002 14:22:30 GMT
I just watched "The Music Man" and reread your story, and I appreciate it
even
more, particularly the conclusion. Plus, now you look like a 28-year-old
Shirley Jones.
Cain
Cain~
Darn it! I want to look like a 28 year old Vivien Leigh. I guess I'll have to
work on my "Gone With the Wind" story next. [smile]
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From: Ray
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:34:04 -0500
"Desdmona22" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Ray stood over the work table preparing, a steel in one hand and a long kitchen boning knife it the other as he prepared for the job at hand. Sliding the blade first on one side of the sharpening steel, then the other, applying a final razor-like hair-splitting edge to the blade to make the trimming perfect and sure.
"Time for work he muttered," beginning to read.
Two positives:
First and foremost, I loved her romantic mindset as the story progressed, the fact that there was no romance, or she didn't think there was any romance, at home. Of her over-whelming desire for romance, or more romance, or any romance in her life, until she began creating it for herself by transposing it from her books to Bernand. I also liked the way reality crept back into the situation in an awakening way, rather than simply as a let down.
Second: I was first going to list this as a downer, but changed my mind after finishing the story. The first paragraphs and actually having a conversation during sex. ("How dissatisfying and poor a lover is this schmuck that she feels the need to talk during what is supposed to be a rousing experience?" ) - but then, it all clicked beautifully. There were a couple of lines that worked so beautifully, but I've had my two so I'll leave them for others.
Two areas for improvement:
First: That glaring thing that leaped out and tried to choke the shit out of me:
Opening paragraphs, "I tried to see Bernanrd's face as the motel sign flickered through a crack in the curtain. Flashes of neon pink illuminated the room."
Entering the motel room: " ..., I might have slung open the curtains to allow the late day sun to brighten the built up gloom,"
Neon lights, though very visible in sunlight, fail to win against sunlight in providing illumination. With the sun still out and providing illumination the neon sign should not have provided a pale pink illumination.
Second: less bothersome item:
Bernanrd's eyes: She took special note of his eyes while they were adding to his leer over coffee, romantically attributing them as being 'chocolate brown', then two paragraphs later, after her bold 'fuck' comment, she describes them as 'really rather ordinary', and finally in the midst of pitiful performance they are more 'muddy brown water than rich, deep coffee' in color. The second of the two descriptions, even considering what she's describing, is still at a point where her mind is in a more romantic mode and 'rather plain' seems a bit too much drop too early. They were part of her allure which, delussional or not, would likely have been a bit more maintained at that point in the story.
There were so many 'nice little touches' adding a final spice to the story and by themselves revealing the so much of the situation, action and even personalities that I could easily write a glowing review longer than the story. If it is not apparent by now - I enjoyed it "muchly" <g>
(Last thing - do a word for word read through, for missing words. I noticed two.)
Returning the knife to it's butcher's block and the steel to it's drawer, Ray found he was not the least dissappointed that it's use had not been necessary. Rather than surgery, all he had been called on to do was lance a boil or two. Adding the story to his favored collection in his notebook, he carried the other he had read to the end of the counter and deposited them into file #13. Tomorrow is trash day, he thought.
Ray
From: Conjugate
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:57:23 -0500
Well, lucky for me that I have some time handy. And since I'm just about the first one, (only Ray got in before me, except for propagation delay) I don't have much to do to avoid repeats.
Desdmona22 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
First, it was a nice, brief tale that did what it was meant to do very compactly. I enjoyed it. I disagree with Gary about the neon sign (I took his remark as not positive); I thought it very clearly set the scene and the mood.
I also liked some of the metaphors. Comparing the sex to being inside a washing machine, for instance, was both clear and gave a sort of "housewife dreary" tinge to it.
Under 2 things to improve, I'm finding it hard (no, not like that; this is clearly not a stroke story and it did not arouse me - I'm not sure if that's a criticism or not. It didn't need to, as I enjoyed it anyway). But, there is this line of dialogue:
One of my pet peeves is no comma before a noun of address. That is, say, "I'm fucking you, my dear." I know, it is extremely minor, not to say insignificant. At any rate, thank you for sharing the story. I enjoyed it.
Conjugate
From: Nicholas Urfe
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 28 Jan 2002 20:06:19 -0800
Two positives:
Bad sex, well done. It's underused as a technique for building frustration, in my opinion, and the sight of his ass in the mirror on the ceiling is just - brilliantly sordid. Aces, especially when the mirror comes into play in the conclusion. Lovely symbol and imagery work: a neat little dance on the lip of Self and Other, or some such critical turn of phrase.
Also: it's polished to a high sheen now - good voice, solid structure, nice details: the Music Man, the dry heat from the coffee cup. The balance between romance, grotty reality, and the synthesis of the two. It's a good, solid story.
Let's dig deeper and make it better, maybe.
Bernard is a cypher; a tool. He doesn't need to do a damn thing differently than he does, but he needs to go about it a different way. Some way that we can see the human being beneath the plot necessity. Especially his dialogue: he has his tics, but they are limited and too heavily played at the moment: "My dear," especially, is overused. - Also, addressing Bernard - tackling him head-on - will address another problem the story has right now: it feels a bit too pat; a bit too moral. Wife cheats; has lousy sex; learns lesson. (The lesson she learns - which is wicked, wonderful, delightful - is what keeps the story from being substantially harmed by this arc.) Making Bernard more real, more of a person, less of a catalyst and reactant, will go a long way towards making the story more complex, more real, less pat.
And since that techinically was one comment, I'll make a second: for all the polish, there's a little trimming to be done. Ask some hard questions about the necessity of some of the adjectives and adjectival phrases: "like a caffeinated aphrodisiac," is nice, but save it for some other story; "feminine" isn't needed with "oil." That sort of thing.
- But comparing it all to being "stuck inside a washing machine on heavy"? Aces, again.
And one last laginappe: "The Thinking System" is better than "The Think System" (though I'm pretty sure the latter was just a typo). But (not to harp): think about what it means to Bernard.
Still: good, good, solid story. Nummies.
Best,
- n.
"Ships came from Baharna on that island, one being due to return thither in only a month, and Ngranek is but two days' zebra-ride from that port. But few had seen the stone face of the god, because it is on a very difficult side of Ngranek, which overlooks only sheer crags and a valley of sinister lava."
a very difficult side:
http://www.asstr.org/~nickurfe/ift/
http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Meme Mispelt
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:14:42 -0500
On 28 Jan 2002, Desdmona22 wrote:
I'll reverse the order this time, and try to start sour and end sweet.
I'm going to cheat a little (by now that should be no surprise) and harp on the neon again, for two reasons:
First: this clearly says to me that it is night, or anyway dark out. In the flashback, it's late afternoon. This is not irreconciliable; a line about the midwinter sun setting quickly or Marion (?) worrying about how long she's been away. (But I bet the Professor didn't "waste" a lot of time on foreplay.)
But what really bugs me about the neon, is: it's too easy. It's like country music shorthand for cheap and tawdry, and I would prefer that the narrator either be ironically aware of that even as she notices it, or for her to notice a fresher detail with the same information.
Second:
I found the word "quixotic" really jarring here, and you sent me to ye olde dictionary to double-check. It does say "romantic" yes, but I think it usually carries a connotation of futility that is probably not what you intended.
Positive one:
I found the story as a whole entirely too believable and almost uncomfortably acute. I was once almost betrayed in remarkably similar fashion by a woman I was living with (she didn't go through with it, at the last minute, and came home in furious tears). It was, um, quite an object lesson. I thought the frustration and desperation were nicely observed and credible.
Positive two:
Very unexpectedly for me by this point in the story, it all of a sudden gets really sexy. Who knew? I especially liked her sense that seh was directing another person, and being surprised when the 'other' complies:
(Could have done with more of this and less of Bernard!)
- Meme Misspelt
- http://www.asstr.org/~meme_misspelt/
From: DrSpin
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 29 Jan 2002 02:07:14 -0800
In article <[email protected]>, Des The Moaner posted ...
Positives:
Good concept. Nice framework for a short story. Readers can identify, because it may well have happened, or almost happened, to them. Despite what is often posted here, infidelity with a stranger will usually be squalid and generate buckets of guilt. The realistic elements of this story are excellent. Some great lines, already mentioned by others. The washing machine is a killer.
Things to improve:
Sorry. I have more than two. I will expand in detail, because I think this is a good story that could be great.
Unconvincing, uninspiring title. You can do better.
Not comfortable starting a story with dialogue. It would start better if you set an opening scene in the sordid motel room and then have her put her question as a second paragraph.
Leave that there for a moment. I want to come back to it.
Ditto.
Ah. Now. Des, no. I realise you want the story short, and that you don�t want to lose yourself in face-to-face detail before you get to the point of the story. But you just can�t get away with it when it�s that slick and that quick. Motivation is crucial. That's the glue for this story and any story.
It wouldn�t happen. 99 out of 100 women would guffaw, spit up coffee and leak it out through the nose in an embarrassing incident if a pompous older guy with a goatee beard said that to them off the cuff.
Stop shaking your head. You know I�m right.
Presumptuously, I offer this constructive suggestion. Rather than have her muddled and uncertain about what she�s doing and how she�s behaving, how about she�s steaming mad with Ethan? How about she�s got this little bad bug running around her bloodstream and she�s actually out there looking for someone to cheat with? Then, who she cheats with is not important. It�s the cheating that�s the point.
The rest of the story fits beautifully with such a motivational change. In fact I think it makes it better. It certainly gives better ironic flavour to her choice of partner.
And although I�m repeating, you also have to look a bit harder at punctuation.
DrSpin
* also at [email protected] and at http://www.ruthiesclub.com
From: Selena Jardine
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 29 Jan 2002 14:11:05 -0800
This isn't a complete review of the story. I just wanted to mention for those who thought it ought to be "The Thinking System" rather than "the Think System" that the phrase comes from The Music Man. (I actually think it might be The Think Method, but I wouldn't swear to it.) Professor Hill "teaches" the children to play their instruments by the Think Method, which of course means he doesn't have to do sweet f.a. Just like our "professor" in the story. So it works rather well in the end, if you've seen the Music Man four thousand times, and perhaps not if you haven't.
Selena
[email protected]
From: celia batau
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:31:08 -0800
hi Des!
we're actually going to try to do this. :) finally. :)
pozzie one: the shifts in perception between fantasy and ugly reality were amazing. she starts by looking for a fantasy book and ends up finding herself. :) also reflected in the changes in Bernard's eyes as things happen. and how she renamed them both at moments.
pozzie two: the sense of self-possesion she aquires during something that would normally cause self-forgetting. :) her remarks in the overhead mirror, her descriptions of herself and bernard, and the particular moment that one special word is yelled out.
neggie one: the first paragrah is kind of awkward. it has two different ideas being crammed into one space. maybe break them apart or arrange the info so the two flow together?
neggie two: the description of the motel room. ack. ok. we've read billions of descriptions of bad motel rooms (with peeling wallpaper ack!), so it's really cliched out and doesn't even really fit with the shifting perceptions of the rest of the story (except for the "overused mattress")
we liked the story a lot. :) yay Des! :)
-cb
celia batau's story site: http://www.myplanet.net/pinataheart/stories.htm.
So it is in
my silence
that I have become
who I am,
and no one even
has an idea
of this monster
hidden behind
the blade.
-Megan
"Desdmona22" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 30 Jan 2002 00:54:18 GMT
Good story, especially the mirror scene and the opening, which I think is a home run, very strong. I would hack away some of the language in both however, but I say that about everything. Your theme and treatment of adultery stand head and shoulders above what we normally see around here. The confessional-romance tone works for me, as does the device of Bernard - not to say that he is a strong character or that his unctuousness on their meeting doesn't make me want to barf, but that is the whole point, isn't it, that he is an empty vessel?
That said, it seemed that in the section during and immediately following sex where you disassemble the schmuck, the matter-of-fact litany of shortcomings goes a bit into overkill. Some of this effect is desirable toward her self-discovery, but when every aspect of the surroundings and the partner turns suddenly horrid, you risk sounding comicky (my new word) and ruining the credibility of the beginning.
Excuse me, I'm going to read again about mauve fingertips and mirrors. Talk amongst yourselves.
C
From: Selena Jardine
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 29 Jan 2002 17:44:43 -0800
I think that a lot of what needs to be said has already been said, so I'll stick to the bush leagues for my first outing in the Fish Tank. (I assume you play baseball in the Fish Tank?)
Nitpicks:
1) Do half-price bookstores have attached cafes? 2) I think you "muster" passion (or troops, or whatever), rather than mustering it up.
Nice moments:
1) Her wedding ring pinches her finger when he squeezes her hand, and instead of regretting her decision, she merely wishes she'd removed the ring. Beautiful. Perfect. 2) All of a sudden, in the cheap mirrors in a cheap hotel, she comes into focus for the first time, for herself and consequently for us. It's the first time we know her hair color, the color or style of anything she's wearing, the texture of her skin. Marvelous.
I really enjoyed this one, and there were flashes of the great. Thanks for letting us read and critique it - and letting me start my "internship". Keep swinging!
Selena
[email protected]
From: Always Horny
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:29:46 +0100
Desdmona22 wrote: The Think System (MF cheating, mast)
Positives:
A different tale and point of view. Very different. I like how you describe the slip into sordid-ness. (Actually this is what I'd expect of most adulteries). This is a refreshing look at a common occurrence.
The mirror in the ceiling is a nice touch. Not very likely in RL IMO, but nice and well used.
Overall, the story does a good job of depicting the mess she got herself in, and finds a different place to tell it from: not just stroke, not just sordid, but a nice blend of sordid-plus-detachedly-funny.
Improvables:
For my taste the narrator's voice is a little too "academic". The voice of a literature teacher, not that of a real everyday person (ahem. better what I say here). I am not sure whether it is the vocabulary, or too exact/complex sentences or what, but it just jars me from this sordid context. The vocabulary contains many two-dollar words, and feel a little overly precious/mannered.
In a few places, this context of "I feel like an entomologist outside of myself looking mercilessly at the whole scene" feels a little bit overdone. I suspect this could be countered by telling us more about how she feels. Feels, not thinks about herself. (Not sure I'm very clear here)
I feel that the scene when they meet in the library does need some further work to feel right. Can't say why though.
This expression does not feel right to me:
"feminine oil" feels so, er, inappropriate. But maybe it is just me being ESL.
Thanks for sharing the story.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 30 Jan 2002 21:27:05 GMT
Thanks, Selena. I had wondered about Des's title, and I'm light on my American musicals. Learn something new every day.
I have an idea, but what exactly is "sweet f.a."? And how does Professor Hill's Think System/Thinking Method pertain to Des's story? Is it that the narrator makes her own self-discovery in spite of the guy she picked up?
Cain
From: Ray
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:15:48 -0500
"PleaseCain" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
"sweet f.a. as used most probably means that Prof Hill, in the Music Man didn't have to do 'sweet fuckin' anything' to teach the kids to play their instruments, as they 'learned' by the 'think system' .... as for how it pertains, it's a referal to the fact that Des' Prof. (though it was not established that her was a Prof or anything - she simply attributed "Lori/Miriam" simply attributed Prof status to him based on his appearance and her romantic notions) - but it relates only in that Des' Prof also didn't have to do diddly squat to get what he wanted.
Ray
From: Selena Jardine
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 30 Jan 2002 20:07:02 -0800
[email protected] (PleaseCain) wrote:
Hey! That's my motto! ("Learn something ..." rather than "Light on American musicals.") (Though the latter has a snappy ring to it.)
Sweet fuck-all, or as they say in Italian, dolce far niente. Ain't doin nuffin.
Yes! In part. Part of it is that there are Music Man references throughout the story (Marian the Librarian, bells all around but I never heard them ringing, Professor Hill, 76 trombones leading the big parade, etc.). Part of it is that in The Music Man, the children who are left alone to learn their instruments actually ... sort of ... learn them, and inspiration does the rest. A scoundrel couldn't stand in their way. As I said, it works very nicely if you've seen The Music Man four thousand times, and perhaps not as nicely if you haven't.
Selena
[email protected]
From: dennyw
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:07:56 -0800
On 28 Jan 2002 17:36:03 GMT, [email protected] (Desdmona22) held forth, saying:
I have only one thing to say, and that's a question: Is 'professor' Harold Hill involved?
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: Nicholas Urfe
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 31 Jan 2002 11:47:59 -0800
[email protected] (Selena Jardine) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
It's "Think System," and let me just give with a great big "D'oh!" on that one. Seeing as how I adore Robert Preston and was almost but not quite in a production of the dam' thing.
So can I amend? The Music Man stuff works, but it isn't integral to the story yet - the "Think System" needs to come into the text itself. Not as a direct reference, no; something more oblique. Maybe to do with Bernard's philosophy, or something. It needs to have more of a connection. But I'm starting to blither.
Otherwise: what Spin said. He's too clever by 'alf, that Spin is.
Best,
- n.
"His vision was an outpouring of hatred against capitalists, clergymen, and Junkers, mixed with a contempt for the Social Democrats and a working class that had foolishly supported them. Forty years in the future, he bleakly saw an obedient, emasculated proletariat enslaved by industry and the church."
eighty years later:
http://www.asstr.org/~nickurfe/ift/
http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 31 Jan 2002 16:41:43 -0800
[email protected] (Selena Jardine) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
That's not how I remember it; it seemed pretty clear to me that Marian the Librarian had given them some music lessons, in order to save said scoundrel's bacon. But I haven't seen it nearly four thousand times, so I could be mistaken. Later,
Jacques
From: Father Ignatius
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 17:02:42 +0200
"Selena Jardine" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Father Nat, leering, approaches Selena and stands too close to her.
"Hello there, my dear," he oozes revoltingly,exhaling his lunchtime garlic down her cleavage. She smiles politely, through gritted teeth, and leans away from him as far as she can. He compensates by moving forward, and she's pinned. Very neatly done, if I say so myself.
He wags a finger at her patronisingly, in exactly the manner that makes you want to snap the damn' thing right off and stuff it up his ... Nevermind.
"It seems to me you're a newbie, am I right? Recently taken to hanging around this august establishment making intelligent, informed posts - for a sheila, at any rate? You are by way of being an author, yes?"
He plumps down next to her on the banquette, puts his hand on her knee, peeks briefly down her d�colletage and beams at her encouragingly. She gulps, pats her pearls, and clears her throat.
"Well," she begins, "it all began some years BD ..."
"Father Ignatius" <[email protected]> http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Stories.html The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Selena Jardine
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 31 Jan 2002 10:16:45 -0800
"Father Ignatius" <[email protected]> wrote:
"Oh, Father, " says Selena, meeting his eyes. Her voice is honey, cut with Primofiori lemon. "If you were going to have the pasta aglio e oglio at the trattoria down the street, you should have invited me. I adore garlic."
He hesitates for a moment, considering the propriety of a reverse-retroactive invitation, then launches:
"I applaud your perceptivity, Father. Yes, I am an author. I have only put one thing out on the net, however, and it was years ago, and it was - rough, and - " Her voice catches. She is in obvious distress. Her curls are in fetching disarray. She shakes her head, makes a visible effort to collect herself, and absently removes Father Nat's hand from her upper thigh. "In any case, I've taken to standing in the shadows, becoming accustomed to the atmosphere, and now I'm trying my hand at a few posts - how kind of you to say that they're clever enough for you. I'll be jumping into the FishTank on February 11."
And Father Nat said ...
Selena
[email protected]
From: Father Ignatius
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:28:05 +0200
"Selena Jardine" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
He thought, "Hey, no fair. They're not allowed fighting back. Are they?"
And then he thought, "Hmmm. Turn-on. I like bit of resistance to crush down. As long as she doesn't overdo it, of course. That would be unbecoming."
"That's 'perception,' my child." He interrupted her gently but firmly. Although he spoke kindly, he nevertheless made the mental note, "That's one."
He discerned the direction of her thoughts. A flash of irritation flickered across his finely-chiselled features. "Damn these wimmen," he thought to himself, "they can't hold two thought together in their pretty little heads if they think their hair's off.
"Straightening up their hair is all they ever do. Why don't they straighten up the mess that's inside?"[1]
Thinking only to smooth their discourse, he stroked her hair, exposing one shell-like ear designed by God for the reception of sweet nothings, and lost focus.
"What's that funny 1 in square brackets?" she asked, distracted. Father Nat flung an irritated "You see?" glance at Uther, who annoyingly took not the slightest notice.
Coming back to earth, he present-mindedly put it back, patting firmly. Already, she was over-doing the resistance. Not a good sign. "That's two," he thought.
He nodded sympathetically. "I fully understand you apprehension," he murmured into her shell-like ear. "Quite, quite pink," he thought drifitng off again. "<ahem>The atmosphere hereabouts here can be torrid, torrid I say, from time to time. Fortunately, there is a small sprinkling of right-minded people ... well, there's me, anyway ... always prepared to take a moderate, reasoned approach. As for the rest, well, you know, fuck 'em. Pack of bitches."
...impatiently, "Yes, yes, I know. I am fully informed of these matters. I'm pulsating with anticipation. Have you completed the first draft of your little offering yet? Are you yet prepared to tell us a little about it?
And, after all that talking, are you not thirsty? May I force some brut down that swan-like neck of yours?"
She looked at him, startled. Eventually, she pulled herself together and ...
[1] "A Hymn to Him," from My Fair Lady by Alan Jay Lerner, based on Pygmalion by George Bernard Shaw.
"Father Ignatius" <[email protected]> http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Stories.html The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: oosh
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:15:23 GMT
"Father Ignatius" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
Spring is definitely in the air!
O.
From: Selena Jardine
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 31 Jan 2002 18:41:20 -0800
"Father Ignatius" <[email protected]> wrote:
"I'm so sorry, Father," said Selena, waiting until her interlocutor had quite, quite finished. "Perceptivity. According to the American Heritage Dictionary, noun form of 'perceptive'. The ability to perceive, or keenness in discernment, rather than the perception itself. A fine distinction, but mine own. No, no, don't apologize, dear Father, you're all red! ... As I was saying, I'd
[Two thought? wondered Selena. Don't they do plurals around here like everyone else does?]
"Oh, I see," she said, amused. "You can't do superscript, can you? Well, not everyone can get it up all the time. In ASCII, I mean. It'll be all right on the night."
Torrid atmospheres with sprinklings? she thought. I'll have to bring my umbrella next time I go to the ball game at the FishTank.
Selena lowered her eyes to the ... amazing ... leopard-print carpet. "I have finished a first draft. It's a story of desire rather than lust; desire as the prime mover that gets us from one place to another every moment of our lives. But," and here Selena raised her eyes to meet his with a wicked smile, "there is a healthy dose of lust in the story as well."
... suggested at least some glasses. Paper cups? No? Well, when in ASSD ... "And I am thirsty," she said, casting a speculative eye at the Father's brut force, and then at the other partygoers. This was the after-lunch crowd, was it? Hmmm. Candy is dandy, but ...
"So, Father," she said, "I see you do footnotes. Irresistible ..."
Selena
[email protected]
From: oosh
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 03:34:29 GMT
Negative (tentatively): I think a "tiff" is a quarrel. You leave someone in a huff after a tiff - at least, that's so in British English.
Positive:
I liked the architecture of this story. The five sections were well proportioned, each given enough time. I felt it was well paced. I also felt that each section contributed to an overall unity. I wouldn't want any section amplified or slimmed down; nor would I want to read a sequel. It's just perfect for what it needs to say.
Then, I liked the rhythm of the language. The sentence lengths were well mixed, and often the paragraphs were beautifully shaped and balanced - particularly the ones at the end of the bookshop scene. I didn't feel there was an ounce of fat on them.
And I liked the glimpses of realism, so humorously portrayed. I shall never forget the accordion-like condom (I loved the pathos); nor the squelched coffee; and I loved the evocation of the battered aftermath.
Some have commented on the neon sign not being visible in daylight. I wouldn't know. I don't know just where it was, nor how much daylight was left. It didn't bother me at all. Although dreary motel rooms may be a cliche to some, I personally didn't feel that it was overdone in this case.
I could detect some exterior allusions, in the use of names and reference to TV programmes. I am used to not getting these. I didn't understand the relevance of the title. That's not a criticism - that's just me!
O.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 18:45:28 -0600
On 28 Jan 2002 17:36:03 GMT, [email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote:
It is hard not repeating, especially since others have posted on this so well.
I like how the opening half presented a lovely illusion. The sort of infatuation and fantasy which can sometimes cloak the character of a new love. It doesnt always happen that the illusion is revealed so quickly as this.
The Robert Preston Music Man references are interesting. Now, I didn't get it right off either, it was the kind of thing which required spending time with it to recognize. I saw each one, 76 trombones is too hard to miss if you know it. Bernard doesn't quite have the Professor's air, but that doesn't matter. As long as Lori (Marian :-) imagines he does, it seems that he is as wonderful as she imagines.
One extra good thing: I loved the last lovely solo sex scene. She gets to make up for his failings, and find her own sexual faith(?) restored. Another man might have apologized for his own frailty; any male is subject to that risk of sudden slumber after such an intense experience. Bernard didn't, and seemed unaware of his failings. Lori found her own fine way to get past that. Very inspirational.
I'm slow on finding any negatives not already mentioned. The coffee shop within the bookstore may not be common, and it wasn't clear to me that it was in the same place until they left the place. That I think needs a little more explanation there.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Desdmona
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 03 Feb 2002 06:52:55 GMT
First, I'd like to thank everyone who took the time out of his or her busy life to comment on my story. I appreciate all your efforts.
I'll start with the title, "The Think System" is derived from "The Music Man" as Selena explained. For those of you not familiar with the musical, Professor Harold Hill is a con man. He travels to small towns and sells the town on music/marching bands to be the saving tool to prevent the youth in their town from becoming corrupt. (Irony: Con man preaching about corruption.) He collects money to buy uniforms and instruments, only he doesn't buy the goods - he pockets the money. He sells the students on "The Think System." The idea is that they don't have to be taught music because it's already in their heads. They just have to think about it! (Of course in the musical the professor changes his ways due to the love of a good woman. Yeah! Marian.)
I really like this title, although I have to agree with Nicholas Urfe that some hint to the title needs to be incorporated into the story itself. I was trying to be subtle. Sometimes subtlety just doesn't work. But the idea is Lisa doesn't have to be taught or shown that she's sexy. It's all in her head; she just has to think about it. Ultimately, Lisa realizes she's the one who is responsible for how she feels. It's not her husband, or the heroes in books, or even another man that determines if she's sexy. It's her! I'm convinced that being sexy is 80% cerebral, and if you don't think you're sexy then nothing anyone else says or does will make you think you are.
Ray~ You're right about the lighting, and believe it or not I gave thought to this before posting the story. I let myself believe that if a room is mostly dark with curtains closed, then a neon light that flickers near the window would illuminate the room, but reality is, the light of day would also filter in. So I must fix this. (Easy enough I think.) I'm thinking about the eye coloring comment. I think by just getting rid of the word chocolate, it would solve the problem.
Conjugate (and others) ~ Egads! I hate punctuation. I'm awful at it. But alas, I suppose it's a necessary evil to overcome, and I shall strive to do better.
Nicholas~ I just knew someone would say I'd used, "My dear" too much. On one of my read throughs, I thought the same thing. Believe it or not, I trimmed a couple. A couple more can be trimmed. I hadn't thought the story as being especially morally pat, but I think my thoughts are skewed by how I perceived Lisa as opposed to how I wrote her. In the beginning, there was to be a lot more guilt - tons of it. So she learns something about herself but at what cost? Somewhere along the writing, I switched priority. I admit I like where I took it, but I can see how it sums up too easily. And I agree that some changes to Bernard might just be the key.
Meme~ I can't tell you what a shock it was for it to be pointed out how cliche the hotel was. You (and others) are absolutely correct about it, but I didn't see that while I was writing. I didn't do the hotel tawdry and cheap on purpose. When I write a scene like this, I visualize it and then describe what I've visualized. I'm not entirely convinced that the hotel shouldn't be this cliche. There aren't too many hotels that have mirrors on the ceiling and the mirrored ceiling is paramount to this story. However, there's really no reason for it to be so far down the cliche path ... so I think I will be able to compromise on this suggestion.
Quixotic is often used in romance novels. I like the word! My proofreader rapped my knuckles though because I added it after he'd done his read through and he agreed with you. Stretching the limit of definition. {sigh} I still like the word ... I'll use it in a different story.
Dr. Spin~ you wound me to the quick man ... uninspiring title, you say? (See above about the title) But darn it, I hate titles. (maybe even more than punctuation) This one I really gave some considerable thought to. Psst! Maybe Shon Richards can help. (grin)
OK! OK! You're right about the leering, vices segment. I'd bust a gut laughing at some fool who said something like that to me. However on some small defending level, Lisa isn't me, she's a woman who reads a lot of romance novels (Oh wait, so do I) and she'd find this sort of conversation in said novels. But I agree, it needs reworking. Hmm! Now this idea about making Lisa steaming mad at Ethan. This I like. Very much! I'll get right on that one.
Celia~ I just love it when someone "gets" something I've written. And you did! Thanks so much for your comments. (See above about the cliche hotel room) And that dastardly first paragraph, well it's on my list of reworkings. I'm so glad you decided to take part in the FishTank.
Cain~ only a guy who can write complete stories in 500 words or less (magnificently, I might add) could suggest trimming one of my shortest stories ever. As I've already said I hadn't realized that I'd done Bernard to such an extreme or the hotel so cliche. I definitely will soften up on both. Can I borrow your red pen?
Selena~ I think we're going to find ourselves very lucky that you've decided to join our little group. Thanks! About the attached cafe, I had mixed feelings. I wanted it to be a half-price store to show that Lisa tries not to spend money needlessly, but I also didn't want Bernard and Lisa to go to a coffee shop away from the bookstore because in my mind, if Lisa had the chance to be alone, sit in a car, think about what she was doing, she would back out. But if she were caught up in the moment, she would rush through it. Maybe instead there could be an Espresso Bar outside the bookstore. Those are common enough to make it work, I think.
Jeff~ Lots of men do seem to fall asleep right after sex, and unfortunately many men think that sex is all about their orgasm and nothing else. But times they are a changing! I personally think that if I don't have an orgasm during sex, it's just as much my fault as it is my partners. So maybe Lisa's heart really wasn't in to the sex with Bernard. Maybe she was wracked with guilt. Or maybe she wasn't strong enough or self-confident enough to contribute more. Want to bet if she had sex with him again, that would change? The "Music Man" references are definitely relative to one's familiarity with the musical.
Oosh~ It's funny you should mention about the balancing of sentences within paragraphs. I bet you think of this as an odd thing to notice. But the truth is it's something I notice when I'm reading as well. Sometimes I'll add another sentence, not because I want to convey more information, but because it just seems like the reading pattern calls for it. I like knowing I'm not the only one out there that looks at such things.
"Huff" is the word I meant, not tiff. Thanks for calling that to my attention. And I'm so glad you've decided to wade into the FishTank with us.
AH~ I really understand what you mean about needing a bit more of her feelings. I already have a couple of ideas where to fix this a bit. I have to say I'm fine with the idea that you found the narrating voice a bit too academic. My goal is to show an intelligent woman, who reads a lot, fantasizes a lot, but finds herself lacking when she compares herself to the women she reads about. I think people who read a lot have a bigger vocabulary. I also like the "outside looking in" feeling. I was thinking that someone who commits adultery, even though they have very strong feelings about it being wrong, might find it easier to appease their guilt if they look at in a very detached way. And the other biggie is that self-discovery can't really happen until you take a closer look, so I wanted the contrast to be drastic. (On a personal note: I hope things are improving on the RL front for you and yours AH ...thanks for taking the time to comment now.)
Denny~ What a card you are! Of course Harold Hill was mentioned.
Once again, thanks to each and every one of you for participating, I hope you'll find the time to continue to do so in future weeks!
Des
(On her way back to the writing table ... can someone get me a coffee?)
From: Shon Richards
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 09:55:00 GMT
Hello Des,
The reason I didn't read this earlier is blah blah blah. There, got my excuse out of the way. :)
The title reminded me of the Music Man and his con and well, I got off on another tangent. See, the Music was in their heads, right? Well, I thought the guy was in her head too. He was perfect, except for the whole rolling over and snoring bit. He reminded me of a masturbation fantasy; his moods came and went on a whim. He was a fucktoy. Slow, then fast, and as soon as orgasm hit, he almost dissappeared. I was just about convinced she was delusional when you upsetted my theory by having her masturbate and rediscover her own sexuality. Pooh! I hate being that off base.
I loved Caffienated Aphrodisiac.
I like her self-discovery but complaining about red sheets didn't seem like an adultry offense :) That was one of the reasons I thought it was all a daydream.
I noticed other people didn't like how trashy the hotel was. Maybe its my area, but it felt accurate to me :)
Nice story, even if I got it wrong :)
Shon
From: Always Horny
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:07:43 +0100
Desdmona22 wrote:
And that is well done.
I guess that my point is that the sentences feel a bit too complex for someone's own thoughts, especially when wanking off. Oh well, tastes ...
I don't know if any cartoons by Claire Bretecher are available where you live, but you would love her series about the daily life of her "modern liberated heroines", where this contrast is well depicted. With lots of tenderness in depicting the derisory and pathetic aspects.
Thanks for the concern. Things did improve a little bit right now, although not in a very encouraging way: my father feels better for time being, but that's only because they have suspended all treatments until they understand what's causing the nasty reaction. They're still performing on him more exams, scans, fibroscopy all that stuff. Unfortunately, the outcome is certain, the only unknown is how long it will take and how uncomfortable this is going to be for him. Rough cruise ahead for everyone.
I thought of myself as a pretty hardened and hardboiled guy after all the wars, injuries and stuff, but ... Worst for me is that unlike war, now there is nothing I can do that will change the outcome, or even delay it. The only little bit of comfort is that this is the time I can repay some of what he gave me.
We are all very lucky that he keeps his morale strong & fights on. He knows he's fighting a desperate battle, but he is not giving up. The way I know him, I expect that he will keep fighting on to the last second. That helps him, and that helps us too. Hopefully it will also help his treatments.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Meme Mispelt
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 10:20:20 -0500
On 3 Feb 2002, Desdmona22 wrote:
Ouch - I didn't mean to be shocking, sorry. I didn't have a problem with the hotel being cheap and tawdry, just with a few of the specifics. Actually, round here anyway, some of the sleazier motels do have mirrors on the ceiling in a 'honeymoon suite' (there was one that used to advertise a heart-shaped waterbed too, and my girlfriend back then and I used to joke about going there). And I could see your nasty little professor making a big deal of how he wasn't making a big deal of forking over the dough for the red carpet treatment, too.
Re: Bookstore/Cafe - if it were in a little strip of shops such as you find in university towns, the coffee place could be just a few steps away; no time alone in a car to have second thoughts.
- Meme Misspelt
- http://www.asstr.org/~meme_misspelt/
From: dennyw
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 12:09:02 -0800
On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 11:07:43 +0100, [email protected] (Always Horny) held forth, saying:
It's never easy - you've my sympathies. Even though the outcome is the same for us all, eventually, having to actually face it and deal is always very rough - no matter how 'hardened' we think we are.
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 04 Feb 2002 20:21:53 GMT
Des,
Just to clarify, I wasn't criticizing the length of your story, or your storytelling either, because you sustained my interest throughout. Nothing wrong with long stories, and conversely, stories can suffer from lack of meat; for instance, my last Fish Tank submission suffered from a lack of characterization. (I do have problems with most long stories on the newsgroup, but that's another Fish to fry.)
Rather, my comments regarded particular phrases, especially in my favorite parts: the opening and the mirror section. For example, from the opening I would chop "But he didn't know me" and "much-needed," because the phrases don't do anything, and you want your introduction to be as sleek and powerful as possible. It's nitpicking, but the opening is your shop window.
I hope you submit this again. You have such a flair for storytelling.
Cain
From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 4 Feb 2002 21:48:49 -0800
[email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
He actually does deliver the instruments and uniforms. (Remember the song about the Wells Fargo Wagon? That's what it brought to River City.) The con part is the promise to teach the kids to play them, without which the townsfolk would never have agreed to buy them. He makes his money just the way an honest travelling salesman (is there such a thing?) would: by collecting a commission from the companies that make the instruments and the uniforms.
A large second-hand bookstore, or one that had both new and used books, might conceivably include a cafe; in fact I'm pretty sure that I've been in one that did, in Harvard Square. Couldn't tell you the name, though. I think Louis's Bookstore Cafe in Baltimore sells used books as well as new ones, but again I'm not certain of that. Later, Jacques
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 05 Feb 2002 06:00:56 GMT
<snip>
I'll admit to being WAY behind the power curve on the story (sorry, sorry, sorry Des. Did I say I was sorry ...., really, really, sorry?). However, the bookstore/coffee shop thing immediately caught my eye. Here, in the land of REAL coffee addicts, err, drinkers (we pshaw upon Seattle-ites) most bookstores either HAVE coffee shops inside their stores or are attached to either a small coffee shop OR have a coffee hut parked in their parking lot. They go out to the lot, get their coffee, go back into the store's cushy sofa area. That's for the used stores. The new stores ALL have coffee shops inside (with the exception of the mall-based chains). The locals and the national bookstores all have coffee centers (usually with pastries, soups, and live accoustical music on Sunday afternoons. Last Sunday was, I think, classical guitar afternoon at the local Borders, but I could be wrong).
Anyway, I digress (yeah, big flipping surprise). Coffee and bookstores go together. You can easily put one with the other.
Alexis
(not really being helpful, but the 'coffee' thing called to me. Goodness gracious I need some quality sleep)
"Dancing is a perpendicular expression of a horizontal desire." - Steven Wright
ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/Alexis_S/ http://www.asstr.org/~Alexis_S/
From: Desdmona
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 05 Feb 2002 13:48:37 GMT
Darn it! Now I have to decide if this is an appropriate amount of groveling or should I expect some ripping of clothes and gnashing of teeth to show real repentance. [grin} Nah, I guess this will do, unless of course the ripping of clothes means we can go shopping and buy new clothes.
<snipping the obvious caffiene induced explanantion>
In fact there is a half-price bookstore and coffee shop near me. It's not as posh as the new bookstores but it still serves up a mean black coffee with one artificial sweetener.
Some things are indicative to certain areas and I guess the real question is how universal you want a story to be. I'll give this some thought. (After the shopping!)
Des
From: Desdmona
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 05 Feb 2002 13:34:49 GMT
Thanks for the clarification Cain. It helps me to understand a point when examples are given. I guess I'm one of those show-n-tell kind of gals! [smile]
Des
From: Desdmona
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 05 Feb 2002 13:38:12 GMT
Really? Isn't it funny how we can watch something a zillion times and still miss an important point like this? It makes me want to watch it just one more time to see what other things I missed.
Thanks Jacques.
Des
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 08 Feb 2002 23:45:31 GMT
Des,
I just watched "The Music Man" and reread your story, and I appreciate it even more, particularly the conclusion. Plus, now you look like a 28-year-old Shirley Jones.
Cain
From: Desdmona
Re: The Think System, by Desdmona
Date: 10 Feb 2002 14:22:30 GMT
Cain~
Darn it! I want to look like a 28 year old Vivien Leigh. I guess I'll have to work on my "Gone With the Wind" story next. [smile]
Des
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