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From: Gary Jordan
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: 18 Feb 2002 16:31:45 GMT
The following is our 28th story in the FishTank. This story is by a new
author
who has some trepidation about submitting, but his spouse urged him. Who in
their right mind would deny a spouse that encourages erotc writing. <grin>
This
is a complete story. It's 2,853 words in length. Same FishTank guideliens
apply:
1) 2 positive comments
1. This story has a definite Ring Of Truth! All those little very-married
details, from getting out of the car (a station wagon) without waiting,
worrying about their son, forgetting to put gas in the car, all the way to the
too-soon-over coupling in the back.
2. I love the banter, and the way that, even with all the distractions, they
keep this night out on its course to passion. (They obviously needed a night
out.)
2) 2 things to improve
I think I'm the first to reply, and I didn't see gross anyspelling,
punctuation, or grammatical errors. That's disappointing, in a way, because
those are favorite errors and easy to leap on. It forces me to look for
something else to improve.
1. While I still think there is that ring of truth, I'm disappointed that so
little of the sex scene details Laura's feelings and reactions. Although the
POV is 3rd person (omniscient? I get POV names confuzzled), the end
concentrates on Rob.
2. doo-wop ... Elvis?!? puh-lease!
3) Try not to repeat!
I got here first! Yay!
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die. It's not within their scope."
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/Clitorides/
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/ShonRichards/
http://www.asstr.org/spotlight.html
http://www.storiesonline.net/
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:02:27 -0600
1. While I still think there is that ring of truth, I'm disappointed that so
little of the sex scene details Laura's feelings and reactions. Although the
POV is 3rd person (omniscient? I get POV names confuzzled), the end
concentrates on Rob.
I think it is 3rd Person single POV (Rob's viewpoint is presented
throughout). On the other hand, Rob might notice more of how Laura
acts, if not her emotions.
2. doo-wop ... Elvis?!? puh-lease!
Hmm, not sure about that, all depends on what the "Oldies" station
in the town really plays. Our most popular does 50s-80s, a wide range
- kids now think of disco and new wave as "old stoner music," not pop
stuff :-)
Then again, I'd have picked a new music station for a new date, but
OTOH there is no way I'd wait 8 years before going on a date again,
nor think that I was too old for that. I wasn't raised that way :-)
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: oosh
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:06:51 GMT
Sorry to piggy-back off Gary's post. I couldn't find the original story,
and this is intended as my contribution, not a comment on Gary's.
It's difficult not to repeat the criticisms others have made, but at least
I can say I've tried, even if I cannot claim to have succeeded.
I relished the moment when the husband was remembering about the early days
of their relationship, and the wife interrupts his train of thought with
the question, "So did you remember them or not?" I also liked the fact that
Laura has to say "Robert, language!" on two occasions, to each of her
delinquent males. Two delightful comic touches.
I'd positively recommend this author to read carefully Falkon's brilliant
and comprehensive treatise on the punctuation of dialogue; but for the most
part I did find the dialogue well presented, and often very believable.
The more serious of my negative points is that I feel that people's
emotions swing with too much facility from petulance to contrition, from
anxiety to calm, from terror to lust. For example, if I had just been spun
about in a skidding car that had cornered too fast at night in the pouring
rain, I doubt if I would have stopped screaming for at least a quarter of
an hour, and would not have been in the mood for polite conversation for
some considerable time after that. I should not be surprised if the mother
of a young child would be similarly unforgiving.
Similarly, I felt young Robert's vacillation between outspoken petulance
and winsome contrition lacked conviction. (And while we're on that subject,
I was fascinated to learn that in the USA children are given vitamin pills
as a cure for bed-wetting. I found myself wishfully thinking, after young
Robert's early display of impertinence, that something a little stronger
than vitamins would be faster and more reliable. Where is Louise Woodward
when we need her?)
O.
From: Anne747
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: 19 Feb 2002 00:40:40 GMT
Okay, only one other set of comments, so dinner can wait for a while ...
Two nice things:
1) The banter between the couple shows a comfort level that exists between
them. It makes them real to the reader.
2) I loved the 'ran out of gas' bit. It was a running joke when I was growing
up, so it brought back memories.
Two things to improve:
1) I'm not sure as a reader I buy that they've never had a date in 8 years.
Now, I'm not a parent, but it seems kind of long. I know people don't like
leaving their kids alone - but that seems excessive without any 'secondary'
reason.
2) Never trust the auto club. I can just see them showing up in the middle of
the sex. They always are slow when you need them - but if you don't want them
to come, they do. Perhaps just joke about maybe waiting to call them. If this
is their first date in 8 years, I see them as maybe too nervous to go this far
in the car.
That's it for me. Thanks for submitting it, and letting us comment on it.
Anne
To reply by mail - remove the b in the address
Anne's Erotic Story Archive - http://annejet.pair.com/
Free Story FAQ - http://annejet.pair.com/fsfaq/
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:06:55 -0600
Okay, only one other set of comments, so dinner can wait for a while ...
Two things to improve:
1) I'm not sure as a reader I buy that they've never had a date in 8 years.
Now, I'm not a parent, but it seems kind of long. I know people don't like
leaving their kids alone - but that seems excessive without any 'secondary'
reason.
Yeah, that one got to me too. It shows them as boring, or having
limited resources, or terribly busy and too tired to go out. I don't
need to know what their reason is, except that it makes them unlike
anyone I know. Not that I disbelieve in them, they are just living a
very unexciting lifestyle.
The simplest date solution is sending the kids off with grandma for
a while. Gives you not only time to go out, but a nice empty house to
come back to later.
2) Never trust the auto club. I can just see them showing up in the middle of
the sex. They always are slow when you need them - but if you don't want them
to come, they do. Perhaps just joke about maybe waiting to call them. If this
is their first date in 8 years, I see them as maybe too nervous to go this far
in the car.
I think that Rob would call first. He seems that kind of guy. Only
later did they think of the alternative. If the location was
well-known to be isolated, and given the sudden date-like romantic
setting, it might not be resistable.
Besides, they aren't nervous about sex together. Just that for some
reason, they haven't taken time off from other things to go out. It
is not hard to get in a rut, working all the time, taking care of the
kid and other business, and become content with staying home.
Especially if funds are tight.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:58:57 -0600
The following is our 28th story in the FishTank. This story is by a new author
who has some trepidation about submitting, but his spouse urged him. Who in
their right mind would deny a spouse that encourages erotc writing. <grin>
Well, that is the kind of encouragement which should stick with you
no matter how the writing goes :-)
Positives - First, the conversation was nicely done. A mix of
daily business and romance, hard to separate once you get past the
"just dating" stage in a relationship. The worry about the kid, and
letting that mess up the date, makes sense for a 1st date post-kid
(regardless of how many years it took to get to it). Trusting kid an
babysitter together takes a while.
Second, I liked the romantic impromptu out-of-control kind of sex at
the end. The "running out of gas" thing in real life (at least, with
girls who know how to read gas gauges - or how to use cell phones to
call for a ride) is pretty much dead, but it remains a popular joke -
and it is funny when it really happens. OK, it is funny if it happens
to someone else :-) Anyway, the sex scene, though shorter than I
like, is hot and fun.
Not a negative, just a comment: I don't know anyone who waited over
eight years (pregnancy to post-kid period is long enough!) to go out
on some sort of date. OTOH, they do seem to have a kind of boring,
ordinary life, so maybe they didn't do a lot of going-out kinds of
dates, or just didn't have the money to do it much? Not getting out
much, that can happen easily. But not at all, not even holidays or
Valentine's Day, seems like they were missing something.
But they do make up for it, and who knows? Maybe it will become a
habit (but without really running out of gas) ;-)
Negatives - Running out of gas at that moment is a bit
coincidental. A smart man would explain the accident as a loss of
power, due to the car running out of gas. It might even be true, and
I think mentioning that as a theory, at least, would make it seem less
coincidental that the accident-stop and not being able to go again
come together.
The sex scene is a bit short. Yes, not a lot happens because it
goes off too quick. But a quick first time can mean spending a bit
more time on a second round. Since Rob isn't sure that Laura got
satisfaction, a sure way to show his renewed feeling of love is to
make sure of it.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
The following is our 28th story in the FishTank. This story is by a new author
who has some trepidation about submitting, but his spouse urged him. Who in
their right mind would deny a spouse that encourages erotc writing. <grin> This
is a complete story. It's 2,853 words in length. Same FishTank guideliens
apply:
1) 2 positive comments
Spelling and punctuation are well done. Nothing squicks me on a story
quicker than inconsistent spelling. I thought the shorthand
conversations between Laura and Rob were pretty well done. And I
appreciated that Rob did NOT describe Laura as Playboy material (fat
legs, chubby thighs).
2) 2 things to improve
If it were me, I would have used different names for the married
couple. Everything was reading just fine, until I got to the part
where they were finally leaving the house:
Acting as a team, the Scotts gave last minute instructions, Rob Sr. to his
son, and Laura to the babysitter. Then when they were satisfied both kids
would survive the evening together, Rob and Laura were finally able to go
on their date.
I read this paragraph and immediately asked myself if this was
supposed to be a Dick Van Dyke Show takeoff (Rob and Laura Petrie). A
different set of character names, at least for me, would have been
better.
Second thing: I thought the sentences throughout the story were too
short and choppy. It made me want to skim through the story to
concentrate on the longer paragraphs.
3) Try not to repeat!
As in Elvis and Chubby Checker doing doo-wop? Okay, I won't mention
it!
RCM
Reverend Cotton Mather
Senior Pastor,
Church of the Erotic Redemption
http://www.asstr.org/~ReverendCottonMather
http://www.storiesonline.net
*Something clever is supposed to go here, I think*
From: spline duck
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 04:31:02 GMT
I liked this story. I'd read others by Leowolf. There's real
trash posted on the net, and this story is a great first effort.
His spouse has the right idea.
Positive
1 I love the way he enjoys the way she looks ("Laura's curvy -
some would say fat - legs")
2 Great passages where she's feeling him up. They help to set the
stage for a couple that really like each other.
Negative
1 The first short paragraph needs work.
"I don't WANT a babysitter, damn it!" 8-year-old Robert Scott
Jr. stamped his foot petulantly.
I'm not sure how I could tell a petulant stamp from a
non-petulant one. And petulant according to my dictionary means
"irritable, peevish, fretful, " etc. I don't think it's quite the
word that I'd use to describe a child's outburst.
2 The commas need work (well, I always think that). There's one
period where a comma is meant ("and said. "You'll be too old").
And there are 5 commas missing before conjunctions where there
is a following independent clause, and 9 commas before
conjunctions where what follows the conjunction has no subject
(dependent clause). It's interesting to me that MS Word did not
complain about any of these, but it does get many.
Duck
When you edit out concave/convex, it's
pretty hard to tell the boys from the girls.
Spline Duck's stories can be found at:
www.asstr.org/~duck
From: spline duck
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:13:08 GMT
On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 04:31:02 GMT, [email protected] (Spline
Duck) wrote:
1 The first short paragraph needs work.
"I don't WANT a babysitter, damn it!" 8-year-old Robert Scott
Jr. stamped his foot petulantly.
I'm not sure how I could tell a petulant stamp from a
non-petulant one. And petulant according to my dictionary means
"irritable, peevish, fretful, " etc. I don't think it's quite the
word that I'd use to describe a child's outburst.
I thought about what I had written and realized that some might
find it a bit cryptic. What I was really trying to say is that I
think Leowolf meant that the boy was petulant, not the stamp
(aside from whether it's quite the right description of the boy's
mood).
When you edit out concave/convex, it's
pretty hard to tell the boys from the girls.
Spline Duck's stories can be found at:
www.asstr.org/~duck
From: oosh
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:20:28 GMT
[email protected] (Spline Duck) wrote in news:3c73bbb4.4244406
@nntp.ix.netcom.com:
"I don't WANT a babysitter, damn it!" 8-year-old Robert Scott
Jr. stamped his foot petulantly.
I'm not sure how I could tell a petulant stamp from a
non-petulant one. And petulant according to my dictionary means
"irritable, peevish, fretful, " etc. I don't think it's quite the
word that I'd use to describe a child's outburst.
I thought about what I had written and realized that some might
find it a bit cryptic. What I was really trying to say is that I
think Leowolf meant that the boy was petulant, not the stamp
(aside from whether it's quite the right description of the boy's
mood).
I don't really see your point. You are quibbling with "X stamped his foot
petulantly". So you would likewise take issue with "He slammed the door
angrily"?
We often ascribe the emotions of the agent to the action signifying that
emotion. We talk of happy smiles, indignant frowns, vague gestures, baleful
stares, helpless shrugs - what's the problem? The meaning is perfectly
clear.
The following is our 28th story in the FishTank. This story is by a new author
who has some trepidation about submitting, but his spouse urged him. Who in
their right mind would deny a spouse that encourages erotc writing. <grin> This
is a complete story. It's 2,853 words in length. Same FishTank guideliens
apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat!
First of all, thanks for posting this sweet, fun story - I'm familiar
with the trials and tribulations of putting a story out for the first
time among strangers. It's a Good Thing, or can be. Sure was for me.
Nitpicks:
1) You might consider, just as an exercise, going through this whole
story, finding all the adverbs, and cutting out half to two-thirds of
them. Everyone is doing things brightly, shyly, cheerfully, rapidly,
shortly, apologetically ... all within the space of two paragraphs.
Adverbs are fine - I'm no Hemingway - but I do think that they ought
to be used with a certain amount of caution.
2) And this really is a nit: I don't think Rob, Jr. would hug the
babysitter. He just met her, and he's mad as hell about having to
have her around at all. Then, one minute later, she shakes his hand
to greet him more formally as a "friend" she just happens to be
babysitting. Cut out the hug, and I think that passage will seem a
little smoother. (And as a rider to this, if I could throw in my vote
to change the names? Rob and Laura said Petrie to me, too.)
Nice moments:
1) I really liked the way this couple overcame several minor
obstacles to keep a romantic mood going. They're obviously
comfortable with each other, accustomed to the glitches of family
life, ready to be accomodating (in more than one way, heh heh.) It
felt true to life.
2) The other thing that felt true to life was the way Laura, who has
been playful and full of initiative all the way along in this story,
suddenly becomes shy when she is naked with him in the car. He sees
her as young, suddenly - "his nymphet of a wife" - and she is
obviously thinking of herself that way, too; not the too-wide butt and
too-big boobs of a mother growing toward middle age, but a young girl
in the back of a car with the hottest guy going and AAA coming any
minute. It's a lovely moment, well done.
I don't take sugar with my sex stories, writing or reading, so I was going to
skip this one. But that's not paying proper respect to the excellent Fish Tank,
so - for good or ill - I'm jump in.
Nothing really wrong with this story, especially from a first-timer. OK, maybe
it is a little "over-written". But that's more a matter of personal taste.
Selena made a good point about proliferation of well-intentioned adverbs. Sparse
telling of stories is good technique, usually, but not easy to achieve. I have
no doubt Leowulf will improve in leaps and bounds with experience. We all did
after posting our first stories.
I confess to not liking the Rob Snr/Rob Jnr thing. Is that an American custom?
Ugh. It makes me uncomfortable, for some reason.
Mostly meaningless nit-picking aside, however, the story certainly rang true.
Maybe this explains Leowulf's slight over-use of detail. It reads like something
that happened, or nearly happened.
Personally, I would have preferred the AAA to arrive at precisely the wrong
moment. That's the twist I was looking for. I'm sure it would have lifted the
story.
I qualify that comment, however. I don't generally do happy endings, white
weddings, or connubial bliss. I prefer to write and read about human frailty,
not strength. Be sad for me, if you like.
Lest it be thought I did not like the story, let me conclude by congratulating
Leowulf on his first posting. I think he did a very fine job, and he has
obvious story-writing talent. Let's see more. Maybe we can corrupt him into
darker fields.
I don't take sugar with my sex stories, writing or reading, so I was going to
skip this one. But that's not paying proper respect to the excellent Fish Tank,
so - for good or ill - I'm jump in.
I like sugar, sometimes. But I think it is fun with the Fish Tank
to try to deal with stories which aren't my favorite sorts.
I confess to not liking the Rob Snr/Rob Jnr thing. Is that an American custom?
Ugh. It makes me uncomfortable, for some reason.
It is a strong American custom, as our President, George Jr, can
explain :-)
I'm not in love with it, in part due to the discovery that I almost
was a "junior," (3rd of that name). It is confusing, but I doubt we
are going to see the tradition of 1st son has father's name go away.
OTOH, how about 1st daughter having mom's name and being called
junior? Does anyone know someone who was named like that?
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: oosh
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:22:37 GMT
From: celia batau
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:04:57 -0800
hi Des and Leowolf!
we weren't going to post a reply to this, but DrSpin made us a little
braver. :)
um, we couldn't finish it. :( we couldn't even get past the second paragraph
without pushing ourself really hard. :(
it's not fair, esp since this is your first story. and we really want to
give lots of support for you. but we really think being honest will hurt
less. it was just way too sweet and unreal for us. :(
so please write more and share your stories. we'd like to see them. we don't
mean to make you sad or angry or anything.
take care,
-celia
From: celia batau
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:46:01 -0800
the fishtank is analytical, so it's prolly wrong not to say why we couldn't
finish, so we're going to put them here if it's ok.
one: the story begins with a quote from the little boy. to us this places
the orientation of the story around the boy, when it's really around the
parents. the dialogue doesn't change it. if there was something longer after
that quote to refocus the attention onto the parents, maybe it might have
worked.
two: listing the characters entire names. the feel of the story is toward
closeness with the parents. using the whole name pushes us away. the first
bit of talking in the car completes the names well if the names are
important.
three: our fault. the syrupy intimacy between the parents and child seemed
totally unrelated to the immediate issue they were deeling with. add the
bouncing babysitter, and the happyness felt unreal. even we're not that
happy with all the meds we're on.
four: dialogue. it felt forced. why did the boy tell the babysitter she
talks too much? it might fit with the issue of his language, but it really
doesn't work with the longer context of the story about the parent's date
(we're guessing).
five: is the entire exchange in the beginning necessary? it may set up the
date, but it's really background for the real story of the parent's date.
hope that helps.
take care,
-celia
From: Conjugate
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:40:32 -0500
The following is our 28th story in the FishTank. This story is by a new
author
who has some trepidation about submitting, but his spouse urged him. Who
in
their right mind would deny a spouse that encourages erotc writing. <grin>
This
is a complete story. It's 2,853 words in length. Same FishTank guideliens
apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat!
Very well, I'll try. Can't make any promises. But the first positive
thing: thank you for not making it a typical babysitter story. You know,
scene shifts to home, babysitter says, "Now, Bobby, show me what a BIG boy
you are!" or perhaps, "Here, my dear, let me drive the tender, innocent,
sweet, virginal young babysitter home, since it's wet out, drool drool."
Let's see; other people have praised the dialog, the friendly, real sound of
it, and others have praised the way the couple "felt" right together - well,
heck, did I tell you that you have some really nice paragraph divisions?
But, let's see, oh yes. I liked some of the descriptive narration. The way
he notices her dress, for instance. No, dammit, somebody already praised
the descriptive narration. Never mind.
Two things to improve: I thought it ended rather abruptly. I'm not sure
how to let it taper off a bit more, but I did think maybe a paragraph about
cleaning up before the AAA got there, or perhaps a scene showing them back
at home, paying the babysitter, and talking about whether they want to do
anything else that night, might help.
As I have a warped imagination, I could easily see finishing the scene as
follows. Tow truck man: "Oops! Guardrail damage; better call the police
and fill out an accident report." Police officer: "Hey, naked lady and
smell of sex in the car - well, we know what caused your accident. It's jail
for the two of you." Rob Senior: "Wait! Our kid is home with the
babysitter!" Cop: "Oho, leaving your boy, a known pyromaniac, alone with a
helpless teenage kid? That's creating a fire hazard, and endangering a
minor! Call family protective services, Charlie, these folks need to do
some hard time!" But perhaps ending the story with Rob Sr. trying
desperately not to drop the soap in the Big House is too grim. Still, I'd
have liked an ending that said it would all turn out all right. This is
where it ended, right?
Lying beside his wife, Rob didn't even think to wonder if she had an
orgasm
during their frenzied coupling. All Rob could only think was that he got
lucky. Not just on their first real date as parents, but all the time
from
the moment Laura first came into his life.
So maybe a nice scene at home, when Laura gets her turn?
There; I've managed to muddy the issue so that nobody will notice I didn't
find a second thing to suggest improving. Oh, damn, did I say that out
loud? Okay, here we go. A few paragraphs were separated by two blank
lines, instead of by one. Fix that.
Sheesh, the depths I sometimes have to go to, in order to find something to
criticize ...
Conjugate
who really liked the story, by the way
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: 20 Feb 2002 06:17:21 GMT
I like your writing style, clear and straightforward. I also like the couple's
relationship, their playfulness with one another.
The boy's voice didn't ring true to me, didn't sound like an eight-year-old.
You can also pare down the obvious descriptions: verbs and dialogue can be
powerful devices on their own, without unnecessary adverbs or explanations.
For instance,
8-year-old Robert Scott Jr. stamped his foot [petulantly].
"Robert, language!" [Laura Scott, Rob's mother, never allowed profanities, even
in arguments.]
The teenager bounced brightly into the Scott house [, talking cheerfully and
rapidly]. "Hi, Mr. Scott! Hi, Mrs. Scott! Thanks for letting me baby-sit! You
have a great house - love the entertainment center! Is this Robby? Hi, Robby,
I'm Marsha!"
"You talk too much!" Rob said [shortly].
"Robert Jr.!" [His father was not at all amused.]
The bracketed language could be deleted or shortened. Just a general idea to
keep in mind.
Welcome aboard! I look forward to seeing more of your stuff in the Fish Tank.
Howdy, folks. Sorry I'm late this week. Being a responsible girl, I
googled back and am responding immediately after reading, instead of
cheating and reading what everyone else had to say first <g> Okay,
I'm going to do some of this out of order, and probably not exactly
along the guidelines, so bear with me.
First things first. I like the premise of the first real date after
parenthood. It's a fantastic place to explore. Sex without worrying
about the child interrupting. The stalled car was unexpected (this is
a good thing, nice twist, running out of gas - nice play on the
cliche. I was thinking it was going to be a quick-but-satisfying
grope in the theatre. Thanks for doing something different).
There are two major areas I see that really need improving. The first
is a big one - realism. Although the situation you've created is real
enough, and therefore should be very easy to connect with as a reader,
the internal structure you've written doesn't ring true at all.
Little things first - Rob, Laura and Rob Jr? The Petries? Can you,
perhaps, do something about this? I kept checking back at the codes
to see if I was missing the fanfic/television show code. There are
prescription meds for bed wetting, but they're not vitamins. There
are holistic remedies for bedwetting that are taken every evening, but
they're not vitamins either.
You've done a very good job of putting an entire story into an
easy-to-digest length. 3,000 words (give or take) is a nice,
middle-of-the-road length for a stand alone story.
Now, I think that you could keep the same length, but do some
wonderful cutting-and-expanding to make this a better story. The
scene with the babysitter sets the wrong tone at the beginning. Robby
doesn't speak like any 8-year-old I know (and yes, I deal with
8-year-olds daily). It's okay to have a well-spoken 8yo, but Robby is
an adult's memory of being a well-spoken 8yo. Robby bounces between
being highly mature (by his speech patterns) and very young-ish
(impulsively hugging a newly-met babysitter. 8yo boys don't generally
hug teenaged girls they've just met. That seems to stop around age 5.
And, FYI, there aren't many places in the US where it's even legal to
consider leaving an 8yo alone. So, the consideration of whether or
not he'd catch the kitchen on fire doesn't strike true at all. He'll
be old enough for his parents to consider leaving him alone when
legally he's old enough for them to start considering it. THEN his
pyromaniac-leanings can come into play <g>. All that aside, I think
you could lose the entire first scene. The story isn't about Robby
and the babysitter. She's not necessary, and opening the story with
the scene sets up an expectation that both she and Robby will be
important. They really aren't. Not to this story.
I wonder why they've waited until their child is 8 to go on their
"first date." I'll admit to not being in this situation, but all of
the married couples I know have managed to get out at least soon after
their child is weaned from the breast to a bottle (or a sippy cup).
No more than 2 years before their first post-baby date. Nope, I'm
wrong. I do know of one couple that waited longer, but that was
simply because they had another child 10 months after the first ...but
I digress.
The scene in the restaurant seems stilted. Either flesh it out and
actually show us some of the 'adult' conversation you mention, or cut
it completely out and skip right to the car ride and wreck (after a
meal of excellent, but overpriced steak and strong wine ...) Frankly,
I'd rather see more of their rediscovery of each other. The stops and
starts to romance that you hint at (he tries to open her door, but out
of habit she does it herself, that sort of thing).
Back to the issue of realism. Try reading your dialogue out
loud - either by yourself or back and forth with that wonderfully
supportive spouse of yours <g>. Very little of it rings true to my
ear. Although I did like this passage:
but only if
he remembered to get condoms.
"So did you remember to get them or not?"
"Remember, umm - remember what?"
"Plywood and two-by-fours for the PTA Spring Fair. Robert Allen Scott you
haven't been listening to a word I've said all evening!"
This is nice, but immediately before ("the only thing that made him
crazier ...") and immediately after the language is more teen or young
adult sounding, than I would expect from this couple.
Again, on the issue of realism, check the details and get rid of about
half of them. There are a lot of unnecessary things that could go to
make the story flow more smoothly. For example -
Rob looked over the candle into his wife's lovely eyes. They were warm and
inviting, and she wore just enough mascara.
"Nope, you look fine to me, dear." He said.
"Good! Usually I never can get the mascara right."
Nice that he's looking into her eyes, nice that they're warm and
inviting, but lose both comments about mascara. This isn't something
that he's going to notice - if she wearing just the right amount, he's
not going to be able to tell. And she's not going to tell him that,
as an adult woman, she can't get her mascara right (that's not really
the hard part about eye-makeup). Also, what's he "nope-ing" her
about? He looks into her eyes and says "Nope"?
Okay, that's as far as I'm going. I know that there were many other
people who have already responded, so I'll check out their comments,
and if there's anything that still needs discussion by the end of the
week, we can always go back and respond again, right? :-)
Leowulf, thank you for setting your story up for this forum of review
and response. It's a great start. You've given a delightful
scenario - realistic, romantic, and fun. I like the back and forth of
Rob's mood - it struck me as very understandable. Two people who have
been communicating as parents trying to be lovers again. It's
inevitable that they have problems. I like the foreshadowing of Rob's
erratic driving. He's angry with her sarcasm about the bed wetting,
so he drives aggressively and they wreck. Some of the conversation
inbetween those two points isn't consistent, but like I said, it's a
great start. I'd give it a really strong rewrite, then go over it
with a fine-toothed-comb for mechanical mistakes (there are many, but
they'll most likely straighten themselves out during rewrites).
Looking forward to seeing this one again!
Alexis
From: Father Ignatius
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:35:21 +0200
This is more a question than a comment. Do Americans kids really talk like
that? Do Americans really talk to their kids like that? Do the kids answer
like that? The kid and babysitter dialogue read to me like 1960s-Disney
wholesome-family-viewing. I saw the baby sitter as the young Hayley Mills.
Nat(posting from South Africa)
"Father Ignatius" <[email protected]>
http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Stories.html
The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:35:07 -0600
On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:35:21 +0200, "Father Ignatius"
<[email protected]> wrote:
This is more a question than a comment. Do Americans kids really talk like
that? Do Americans really talk to their kids like that? Do the kids answer
like that? The kid and babysitter dialogue read to me like 1960s-Disney
wholesome-family-viewing. I saw the baby sitter as the young Hayley Mills.
Nat(posting from South Africa)
Hmm, in the same town where Rob and Laura Scott had a hard time
getting together for a date? Maybe. At least, it isn't totally out
of line for some Americans, though it was a bit odd. Actually, I
think that it would make a bit more sense for a 10-11 yo boy or so
than an 8 yo, and you need a setting where the babysitter would be
formal-polite rather than informal or friendly. We don't know much
about the babysitter's relationship with the family, or experience, or
such (as a babysitter).
It isn't typical in my experience though. But one of the things we
have here is a culture which recognizes the myths of the movies, and
will sometimes act them out in real life.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/
For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:58:52 -0500
The following is our 28th story in the FishTank. This story is by a new author
who has some trepidation about submitting, but his spouse urged him. Who in
their right mind would deny a spouse that encourages erotc writing. <grin> This
is a complete story. It's 2,853 words in length. Same FishTank guideliens
apply:
1) 2 positive comments
1) It was easy to follow the flow of the story, as the dialogue
carried it along well.
2) I don't know if it was meant as a tease, but once I read about the
teenager "bouncing in". It made me think the story was going to take a
total different spin than it did.
2) 2 things to improve
1) There doesn't seem to be a lot of description regarding the
scenery. As an example, when they hop into the back of the station
wagon, I am imagining a worn space with sand embedded into the carpet.
At least that's how most station wagons end up that I've seen,
especially after having an kid for 8 years. It makes it hard to
imagine that it's almost as comfortable as their bed ... I'd hate to
sleep in their bed.
2) Just a preference, with the story conatining so much about the
child, it seems too "puritan", especially when you finish it off with
a quick description of their hurried lovemaking. It may detract from
the erotic qualities of the story, but it certainly conveys the
difficulties that parents might have with ther sex lives after having
kids (Chalk the last section into the "positive comments" section.)
3) Try not to repeat!
From: Always Horny
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:39:05 +0100
Desdmona22 wrote:
1) 2 positive comments
The whole setting (same old married) is nice and refreshing.
Grammar is well done throughout.
2) 2 things to improve
Reminded me of a recent post by Uther about chopping of the first paragraph or
two because the story starts after those. For me the whole scene with the kid
can go or be replaced by one introductory sentence.
The accident (hitting the guardrail) adds nothing and can go too. So they run
out of gas, period. It is unlikely enough as it is.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Desdmona
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: 22 Feb 2002 20:44:02 GMT
The Date (M/F rom)
By Leowulf
Leowulf~
My first impression when reading this story is there's some really great stuff.
The relationship the couple shares, the playfulness, such as,
" ...Does that remind you of anything?"
Rob glanced at the entr�e - and it's price. "That the mortgage payment is due?"
And
"What about the cinema? 'Just one movie that's not made by Disney, 'remember?"
And
"Mr. Scott, guess what your son did!"
"Burned down the house?" Rob dodged his wife's playful slap.
This is wonderful. It shows me a couple that still enjoys one another's company
even though "life" has take over their time. I like that a lot.
I think you miss a great opportunity in the restaurant to build on this
playfulness. I'd love to have seen the dialogue that you hint at: "In fact,
their conversation became a bit more intimate as they lingered over dessert and
a third glass of wine." This also would have been a great time for some
foreplay ...holding hands, kissing, lingering looks, etc.
I agree with those that have already stated that the bit with Rob Jr. and the
babysitter is too much. So much time is spent with this scene that it led me to
believe the story was going to be about Robbie and the babysitter. I think the
information it gives us about Robby is important. He's a handful - maybe this is
one reason why there's been no dating. What parent doesn't worry about who they
leave their child with? Unfortunately, if one of the reason's for not dating
was because of the type of child Robby is, then it doesn't ring true that when
they finally do decide they can leave him with someone, it's with a giggly
teenager. Yikes! There's a few solutions, 1) have the date be the first date in
quite awhile - not the first date in 8 years. 2) Have the babysitter be a
trusted friend (adult) 3) start the story with Rob and Laura already in the
car, on the way to the restaurant - discussing their angst about leaving Robby
(I especially like this solution because it doesn't give Robby or the
babysitter playing time in a story that's not about them anyway.)
I love the time spent on the little things that are normal for a date, but this
couple have forgotten, for whatever reason, like when she hops out of the car
and locks the door before he has a chance to come and open the door for her. I
would have liked to see her recognize that silly moment as well ... maybe shrug
when she sees what he's tried to do and giggle with him over it. It's just
another place for playful tension.
I was jarred in several places where the emotions went from one end of the
scale to the other in one sentence. He's angry, impatient, irritated, grumbling
all the while supposedly filled with adoration for his lovely wife. He's angry
enough to jerk the car out of the parking space and then slam on the brakes,
and yet she's still calling him, "dear." Rob almost seems like a powder keg
about to blow. Maybe you could soften some of the emotions and make him come
across as disappointed rather than angry.
The one other thing I have to say, and please take this with a grain of salt,
as it's my own personal preference - I'd lose some of the endearments in the
dialogue. "My darling, my sweet, my dear, my love ... used once or twice can be
loving, but nearly every time they say something seems unnatural.
I'm so glad you're wife talked you into submitting this story to the FishTank.
It's got the makings of a superb married couple story ...and those are some of
my favorite.
Thanks Again!
Des
From: Leowulf
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:42:06 -0000
Thank you all for reading this short story. I was glad to read your
insightful comments.
To address some of the concerns raised:
Nope, it's not a fanfic. Apologies to the Petries, who we remember lived
in New Rochelle with their son Ritchie. Perhaps there was some
subconscious intrusion, as I remember them as a "typical" married couple
who liked each other (or what I would want a "typical" couple to be, unlike
far too many couples these days, who don't really seem to like each other).
The primary concerns about too many adverbs (which concern i read seriously
and critically) and poor use of commas (to be most candid, I don't think
there were too many, just poorly used, in my opinion) were I believe quite
accurate. This time it can be attributed to novice writing, but I will
definitely be aware of both issues should I write again.
I was impressed with one writer's comment that younger Rob is not really an
8-year-old, but an adult's memory of being a precocious 8-year-old. As one
is, in a sense, every character in one's dreams, a writer must be every
character about whom he or she writes. Why all (both) the hugs enjoyed by
this peripheral character? I was very affectionate as a child, but raised
by a very reserved man (though he was quite emotional, which of course made
everything, even being reserved, an issue of considerable emotional
weight). Perhaps this was a means of vicariously having some hugs that
were overlooked in that era.
The bouncy babysitter is of course every male child's dream-come-true, but
I included her to wet the reader's appetite. Her inclusion is a teaser,
hopefully putting nubile young sexuality in the back of the reader's mind.
I was embarrassed to read that one of the parts of the story was not really
clear. Here is the segment:
Rob looked over the candle into his wife's lovely eyes. They were warm
and inviting, and she wore just enough mascara.
"Nope, you look fine to me, dear." He said.
"Good! Usually I never can get the mascara right." She picked up the
menu.
Rob is looking at his wife, and with the reader we see that she is quite
attractive. Then it twists, and the reader should have been shown that the
reason he was looking into her doe-eyes was because his wife is simply
asking about her technical results with the make-up and not because they
were being the young lovers that they are prevented from being until the
end of the tale. Kind of like, "is my hair parted straight?"
The reader was meant to intuit that his statement is in response to a
question she just asked ("Dear, is my mascara too heavy/light/whatever
women wonder about that sort of thing"). It was another more subtle and
unfortunately less effective way of showing this as the couple stuck as
"married-best-friends-growing-old-together" instead of "young-nymphet-with-
hot-stud" that they (and presumably the reader) want them to be.
Their near accident was the last intentional distraction from their
flirting. I wanted it rather than just running out of gas because of the
suddenness and emergency nature of the "BANG!", as counterpoint to the
preempted handjob, and I thought it logical consequense of driving too fast
at night while a bit tipsy and being felt up. The running out of gas was
of course a shameless cliche. I'm glad it was taken as such, and that it
was mostly seen as fun.
I agree that the actual sex scene was over way too fast, in more ways than
one. Endings are difficult in some stories. I wanted to end the story
there, with the reader seeing them finally having sex in the back of the
car like two teenagers on a date, finally being/having what they wanted
through the whole story. Hopefully they lay atop the blanket in the back
of the station wagon. :)
Beginnings are also difficult. I could have probably dismissed their
rushed exit from their house in Suburbia with a passing comment or two, but
it was a good warm up, like running a few meters before vaulting the horse
or doing the flip sequence on the floor routine in gymnastics. Not
important in itself, just providing momentum for the real stuff.
I do hope that you all remembered to brush your teeth after reading this
story. <g> I like "rom" story codes and sugary sweet dialog and
descriptions. Real life is bitter enough at times, and my stories were
always meant to add some sweetness. That doesn't mean that nothing bad
ever happens, just that my principles usually love each other very much, or
at least they like each other a lot, and show it often.
There is some carry-over of this into rl - my wife and I use lots of "my
love" and other sweetnesses in talking together and tell each other of our
love for each other daily. This story is not autobiographical, but our
daughter was a handful. My wife and I didn't have a real date together
until our daughter was about six, and then I was still worried about her -
even though she was being watched by one of my best friends and his wife,
both fellow ministerial students! :)
Take Care and thanks for the replies!
Leo W. Ulf
From: Leowulf
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:00:09 -0000
There were some other things I should have commented on in the above
response. I always thought of "The Twist" as a "doo-wop" song, with its
background singers/hummers, but in retrospect Elvis is not really doo-wop.
I agree that the thing about vitamins to cure bedwetting is not clear
enough and may detract from the flow of the story. R and L are probably
using ADH (antidiuretic hormone) or more likely an imaginary vitamin that
only exists in their universe (kindly old Dr. Johnson perhaps advised
increasing Juniors intake of vitamin x, you know). For more on "Vitamin
X," please see:
http://www.vitaminexpress.com/atoz/x-quick.htm
The problem's inclusion is meant to provide yet another "real-life"
intrusion on R and L's romantic evening, with a rather unglamorous
parenting issue. And it provides an excuse to have them have to cut their
date short and get back on the road, so they can run out of gas. <g>
The emotions are a bit volatile in this story. They'd be better muted a
little. One of those "less is more" things. :) Of course R and L, like
some Moms and Dads, could be seething volcanos of intense emotion beneath
that "wash-your-hands-before-you-eat" exterior ... <g>
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Comments on The Date, by Leowulf.
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From: Gary Jordan
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: 18 Feb 2002 16:31:45 GMT
1. This story has a definite Ring Of Truth! All those little very-married details, from getting out of the car (a station wagon) without waiting, worrying about their son, forgetting to put gas in the car, all the way to the too-soon-over coupling in the back.
2. I love the banter, and the way that, even with all the distractions, they keep this night out on its course to passion. (They obviously needed a night out.)
I think I'm the first to reply, and I didn't see gross anyspelling, punctuation, or grammatical errors. That's disappointing, in a way, because those are favorite errors and easy to leap on. It forces me to look for something else to improve.
1. While I still think there is that ring of truth, I'm disappointed that so little of the sex scene details Laura's feelings and reactions. Although the POV is 3rd person (omniscient? I get POV names confuzzled), the end concentrates on Rob.
2. doo-wop ... Elvis?!? puh-lease!
I got here first! Yay!
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die. It's not within their scope." http://www.asstr.org/~gary/ http://www.asstr.org/~gary/Clitorides/
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/ShonRichards/ http://www.asstr.org/spotlight.html http://www.storiesonline.net/
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:02:27 -0600
On 18 Feb 2002 16:31:45 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote:
I think it is 3rd Person single POV (Rob's viewpoint is presented throughout). On the other hand, Rob might notice more of how Laura acts, if not her emotions.
Hmm, not sure about that, all depends on what the "Oldies" station in the town really plays. Our most popular does 50s-80s, a wide range - kids now think of disco and new wave as "old stoner music," not pop stuff :-)
Then again, I'd have picked a new music station for a new date, but OTOH there is no way I'd wait 8 years before going on a date again, nor think that I was too old for that. I wasn't raised that way :-)
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: oosh
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 01:06:51 GMT
Sorry to piggy-back off Gary's post. I couldn't find the original story, and this is intended as my contribution, not a comment on Gary's.
It's difficult not to repeat the criticisms others have made, but at least I can say I've tried, even if I cannot claim to have succeeded.
I relished the moment when the husband was remembering about the early days of their relationship, and the wife interrupts his train of thought with the question, "So did you remember them or not?" I also liked the fact that Laura has to say "Robert, language!" on two occasions, to each of her delinquent males. Two delightful comic touches.
I'd positively recommend this author to read carefully Falkon's brilliant and comprehensive treatise on the punctuation of dialogue; but for the most part I did find the dialogue well presented, and often very believable.
The more serious of my negative points is that I feel that people's emotions swing with too much facility from petulance to contrition, from anxiety to calm, from terror to lust. For example, if I had just been spun about in a skidding car that had cornered too fast at night in the pouring rain, I doubt if I would have stopped screaming for at least a quarter of an hour, and would not have been in the mood for polite conversation for some considerable time after that. I should not be surprised if the mother of a young child would be similarly unforgiving.
Similarly, I felt young Robert's vacillation between outspoken petulance and winsome contrition lacked conviction. (And while we're on that subject, I was fascinated to learn that in the USA children are given vitamin pills as a cure for bed-wetting. I found myself wishfully thinking, after young Robert's early display of impertinence, that something a little stronger than vitamins would be faster and more reliable. Where is Louise Woodward when we need her?)
O.
From: Anne747
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: 19 Feb 2002 00:40:40 GMT
Okay, only one other set of comments, so dinner can wait for a while ...
Two nice things:
1) The banter between the couple shows a comfort level that exists between them. It makes them real to the reader.
2) I loved the 'ran out of gas' bit. It was a running joke when I was growing up, so it brought back memories.
Two things to improve:
1) I'm not sure as a reader I buy that they've never had a date in 8 years. Now, I'm not a parent, but it seems kind of long. I know people don't like leaving their kids alone - but that seems excessive without any 'secondary' reason.
2) Never trust the auto club. I can just see them showing up in the middle of the sex. They always are slow when you need them - but if you don't want them to come, they do. Perhaps just joke about maybe waiting to call them. If this is their first date in 8 years, I see them as maybe too nervous to go this far in the car.
That's it for me. Thanks for submitting it, and letting us comment on it.
Anne
To reply by mail - remove the b in the address
Anne's Erotic Story Archive - http://annejet.pair.com/ Free Story FAQ - http://annejet.pair.com/fsfaq/
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:06:55 -0600
On 19 Feb 2002 00:40:40 GMT, [email protected] (Anne747) wrote:
Yeah, that one got to me too. It shows them as boring, or having limited resources, or terribly busy and too tired to go out. I don't need to know what their reason is, except that it makes them unlike anyone I know. Not that I disbelieve in them, they are just living a very unexciting lifestyle.
The simplest date solution is sending the kids off with grandma for a while. Gives you not only time to go out, but a nice empty house to come back to later.
I think that Rob would call first. He seems that kind of guy. Only later did they think of the alternative. If the location was well-known to be isolated, and given the sudden date-like romantic setting, it might not be resistable.
Besides, they aren't nervous about sex together. Just that for some reason, they haven't taken time off from other things to go out. It is not hard to get in a rut, working all the time, taking care of the kid and other business, and become content with staying home. Especially if funds are tight.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:58:57 -0600
On 18 Feb 2002 15:27:34 GMT, [email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote:
Well, that is the kind of encouragement which should stick with you no matter how the writing goes :-)
Positives - First, the conversation was nicely done. A mix of daily business and romance, hard to separate once you get past the "just dating" stage in a relationship. The worry about the kid, and letting that mess up the date, makes sense for a 1st date post-kid (regardless of how many years it took to get to it). Trusting kid an babysitter together takes a while.
Second, I liked the romantic impromptu out-of-control kind of sex at the end. The "running out of gas" thing in real life (at least, with girls who know how to read gas gauges - or how to use cell phones to call for a ride) is pretty much dead, but it remains a popular joke - and it is funny when it really happens. OK, it is funny if it happens to someone else :-) Anyway, the sex scene, though shorter than I like, is hot and fun.
Not a negative, just a comment: I don't know anyone who waited over eight years (pregnancy to post-kid period is long enough!) to go out on some sort of date. OTOH, they do seem to have a kind of boring, ordinary life, so maybe they didn't do a lot of going-out kinds of dates, or just didn't have the money to do it much? Not getting out much, that can happen easily. But not at all, not even holidays or Valentine's Day, seems like they were missing something.
But they do make up for it, and who knows? Maybe it will become a habit (but without really running out of gas) ;-)
Negatives - Running out of gas at that moment is a bit coincidental. A smart man would explain the accident as a loss of power, due to the car running out of gas. It might even be true, and I think mentioning that as a theory, at least, would make it seem less coincidental that the accident-stop and not being able to go again come together.
The sex scene is a bit short. Yes, not a lot happens because it goes off too quick. But a quick first time can mean spending a bit more time on a second round. Since Rob isn't sure that Laura got satisfaction, a sure way to show his renewed feeling of love is to make sure of it.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Rev. Cotton Mather
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 03:51:41 GMT
On 18 Feb 2002 15:27:34 GMT, [email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote:
Spelling and punctuation are well done. Nothing squicks me on a story quicker than inconsistent spelling. I thought the shorthand conversations between Laura and Rob were pretty well done. And I appreciated that Rob did NOT describe Laura as Playboy material (fat legs, chubby thighs).
If it were me, I would have used different names for the married couple. Everything was reading just fine, until I got to the part where they were finally leaving the house:
I read this paragraph and immediately asked myself if this was supposed to be a Dick Van Dyke Show takeoff (Rob and Laura Petrie). A different set of character names, at least for me, would have been better.
Second thing: I thought the sentences throughout the story were too short and choppy. It made me want to skim through the story to concentrate on the longer paragraphs.
As in Elvis and Chubby Checker doing doo-wop? Okay, I won't mention it!
RCM
Reverend Cotton Mather
Senior Pastor,
Church of the Erotic Redemption
http://www.asstr.org/~ReverendCottonMather http://www.storiesonline.net
*Something clever is supposed to go here, I think*
From: spline duck
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 04:31:02 GMT
I liked this story. I'd read others by Leowolf. There's real trash posted on the net, and this story is a great first effort. His spouse has the right idea.
Positive
1 I love the way he enjoys the way she looks ("Laura's curvy - some would say fat - legs")
2 Great passages where she's feeling him up. They help to set the stage for a couple that really like each other.
Negative
1 The first short paragraph needs work.
"I don't WANT a babysitter, damn it!" 8-year-old Robert Scott Jr. stamped his foot petulantly.
I'm not sure how I could tell a petulant stamp from a non-petulant one. And petulant according to my dictionary means "irritable, peevish, fretful, " etc. I don't think it's quite the word that I'd use to describe a child's outburst.
2 The commas need work (well, I always think that). There's one period where a comma is meant ("and said. "You'll be too old").
And there are 5 commas missing before conjunctions where there is a following independent clause, and 9 commas before conjunctions where what follows the conjunction has no subject (dependent clause). It's interesting to me that MS Word did not complain about any of these, but it does get many.
Duck
When you edit out concave/convex, it's pretty hard to tell the boys from the girls.
Spline Duck's stories can be found at:
www.asstr.org/~duck
[email protected]
here, I think**
From: spline duck
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:13:08 GMT
On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 04:31:02 GMT, [email protected] (Spline Duck) wrote:
I thought about what I had written and realized that some might find it a bit cryptic. What I was really trying to say is that I think Leowolf meant that the boy was petulant, not the stamp (aside from whether it's quite the right description of the boy's mood).
When you edit out concave/convex, it's pretty hard to tell the boys from the girls.
Spline Duck's stories can be found at:
www.asstr.org/~duck
[email protected]
From: oosh
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:20:28 GMT
[email protected] (Spline Duck) wrote in news:3c73bbb4.4244406 @nntp.ix.netcom.com:
I don't really see your point. You are quibbling with "X stamped his foot petulantly". So you would likewise take issue with "He slammed the door angrily"?
We often ascribe the emotions of the agent to the action signifying that emotion. We talk of happy smiles, indignant frowns, vague gestures, baleful stares, helpless shrugs - what's the problem? The meaning is perfectly clear.
O.
From: Selena Jardine
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: 19 Feb 2002 09:01:27 -0800
[email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
First of all, thanks for posting this sweet, fun story - I'm familiar with the trials and tribulations of putting a story out for the first time among strangers. It's a Good Thing, or can be. Sure was for me.
Nitpicks:
1) You might consider, just as an exercise, going through this whole story, finding all the adverbs, and cutting out half to two-thirds of them. Everyone is doing things brightly, shyly, cheerfully, rapidly, shortly, apologetically ... all within the space of two paragraphs. Adverbs are fine - I'm no Hemingway - but I do think that they ought to be used with a certain amount of caution.
2) And this really is a nit: I don't think Rob, Jr. would hug the babysitter. He just met her, and he's mad as hell about having to have her around at all. Then, one minute later, she shakes his hand to greet him more formally as a "friend" she just happens to be babysitting. Cut out the hug, and I think that passage will seem a little smoother. (And as a rider to this, if I could throw in my vote to change the names? Rob and Laura said Petrie to me, too.)
Nice moments:
1) I really liked the way this couple overcame several minor obstacles to keep a romantic mood going. They're obviously comfortable with each other, accustomed to the glitches of family life, ready to be accomodating (in more than one way, heh heh.) It felt true to life.
2) The other thing that felt true to life was the way Laura, who has been playful and full of initiative all the way along in this story, suddenly becomes shy when she is naked with him in the car. He sees her as young, suddenly - "his nymphet of a wife" - and she is obviously thinking of herself that way, too; not the too-wide butt and too-big boobs of a mother growing toward middle age, but a young girl in the back of a car with the hottest guy going and AAA coming any minute. It's a lovely moment, well done.
Thanks for letting us read it, Leowulf!
Selena
[email protected]
From: DrSpin
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: 19 Feb 2002 09:56:53 -0800
In article <[email protected]>, Leowulf submitted ...
I don't take sugar with my sex stories, writing or reading, so I was going to skip this one. But that's not paying proper respect to the excellent Fish Tank, so - for good or ill - I'm jump in.
Nothing really wrong with this story, especially from a first-timer. OK, maybe it is a little "over-written". But that's more a matter of personal taste. Selena made a good point about proliferation of well-intentioned adverbs. Sparse telling of stories is good technique, usually, but not easy to achieve. I have no doubt Leowulf will improve in leaps and bounds with experience. We all did after posting our first stories.
I confess to not liking the Rob Snr/Rob Jnr thing. Is that an American custom? Ugh. It makes me uncomfortable, for some reason.
Mostly meaningless nit-picking aside, however, the story certainly rang true. Maybe this explains Leowulf's slight over-use of detail. It reads like something that happened, or nearly happened.
Personally, I would have preferred the AAA to arrive at precisely the wrong moment. That's the twist I was looking for. I'm sure it would have lifted the story.
I qualify that comment, however. I don't generally do happy endings, white weddings, or connubial bliss. I prefer to write and read about human frailty, not strength. Be sad for me, if you like.
Lest it be thought I did not like the story, let me conclude by congratulating Leowulf on his first posting. I think he did a very fine job, and he has obvious story-writing talent. Let's see more. Maybe we can corrupt him into darker fields.
DrSpin
* also at [email protected] and at http://www.ruthiesclub.com
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 13:02:54 -0600
On 19 Feb 2002 09:56:53 -0800, DrSpin <[email protected]> wrote:
I like sugar, sometimes. But I think it is fun with the Fish Tank to try to deal with stories which aren't my favorite sorts.
It is a strong American custom, as our President, George Jr, can explain :-)
I'm not in love with it, in part due to the discovery that I almost was a "junior," (3rd of that name). It is confusing, but I doubt we are going to see the tradition of 1st son has father's name go away.
OTOH, how about 1st daughter having mom's name and being called junior? Does anyone know someone who was named like that?
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: oosh
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 23:22:37 GMT
DrSpin <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
Sugar or vinegar (or even both) is a matter of taste. The question is: is it well done?
O.
From: DrSpin
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: 20 Feb 2002 22:39:27 -0800
In article <[email protected]>, oosh said ...
Assuredly. There is much that is done well that does not interest me, however. Take James Joyce. Yes, take him ...take him awayyyy ...
DrSpin
* also at [email protected] and at http://www.ruthiesclub.com
From: celia batau
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:04:57 -0800
hi Des and Leowolf!
we weren't going to post a reply to this, but DrSpin made us a little braver. :)
um, we couldn't finish it. :( we couldn't even get past the second paragraph without pushing ourself really hard. :(
it's not fair, esp since this is your first story. and we really want to give lots of support for you. but we really think being honest will hurt less. it was just way too sweet and unreal for us. :(
so please write more and share your stories. we'd like to see them. we don't mean to make you sad or angry or anything.
take care,
-celia
From: celia batau
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:46:01 -0800
the fishtank is analytical, so it's prolly wrong not to say why we couldn't finish, so we're going to put them here if it's ok.
one: the story begins with a quote from the little boy. to us this places the orientation of the story around the boy, when it's really around the parents. the dialogue doesn't change it. if there was something longer after that quote to refocus the attention onto the parents, maybe it might have worked.
two: listing the characters entire names. the feel of the story is toward closeness with the parents. using the whole name pushes us away. the first bit of talking in the car completes the names well if the names are important.
three: our fault. the syrupy intimacy between the parents and child seemed totally unrelated to the immediate issue they were deeling with. add the bouncing babysitter, and the happyness felt unreal. even we're not that happy with all the meds we're on.
four: dialogue. it felt forced. why did the boy tell the babysitter she talks too much? it might fit with the issue of his language, but it really doesn't work with the longer context of the story about the parent's date (we're guessing).
five: is the entire exchange in the beginning necessary? it may set up the date, but it's really background for the real story of the parent's date.
hope that helps.
take care,
-celia
From: Conjugate
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 22:40:32 -0500
Desdmona22 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Very well, I'll try. Can't make any promises. But the first positive thing: thank you for not making it a typical babysitter story. You know, scene shifts to home, babysitter says, "Now, Bobby, show me what a BIG boy you are!" or perhaps, "Here, my dear, let me drive the tender, innocent, sweet, virginal young babysitter home, since it's wet out, drool drool." Let's see; other people have praised the dialog, the friendly, real sound of it, and others have praised the way the couple "felt" right together - well, heck, did I tell you that you have some really nice paragraph divisions? But, let's see, oh yes. I liked some of the descriptive narration. The way he notices her dress, for instance. No, dammit, somebody already praised the descriptive narration. Never mind.
Two things to improve: I thought it ended rather abruptly. I'm not sure how to let it taper off a bit more, but I did think maybe a paragraph about cleaning up before the AAA got there, or perhaps a scene showing them back at home, paying the babysitter, and talking about whether they want to do anything else that night, might help.
As I have a warped imagination, I could easily see finishing the scene as follows. Tow truck man: "Oops! Guardrail damage; better call the police and fill out an accident report." Police officer: "Hey, naked lady and smell of sex in the car - well, we know what caused your accident. It's jail for the two of you." Rob Senior: "Wait! Our kid is home with the babysitter!" Cop: "Oho, leaving your boy, a known pyromaniac, alone with a helpless teenage kid? That's creating a fire hazard, and endangering a minor! Call family protective services, Charlie, these folks need to do some hard time!" But perhaps ending the story with Rob Sr. trying desperately not to drop the soap in the Big House is too grim. Still, I'd have liked an ending that said it would all turn out all right. This is where it ended, right?
So maybe a nice scene at home, when Laura gets her turn?
There; I've managed to muddy the issue so that nobody will notice I didn't find a second thing to suggest improving. Oh, damn, did I say that out loud? Okay, here we go. A few paragraphs were separated by two blank lines, instead of by one. Fix that.
Sheesh, the depths I sometimes have to go to, in order to find something to criticize ...
Conjugate
who really liked the story, by the way
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: 20 Feb 2002 06:17:21 GMT
I like your writing style, clear and straightforward. I also like the couple's relationship, their playfulness with one another.
The boy's voice didn't ring true to me, didn't sound like an eight-year-old. You can also pare down the obvious descriptions: verbs and dialogue can be powerful devices on their own, without unnecessary adverbs or explanations. For instance,
8-year-old Robert Scott Jr. stamped his foot [petulantly].
"Robert, language!" [Laura Scott, Rob's mother, never allowed profanities, even in arguments.]
The teenager bounced brightly into the Scott house [, talking cheerfully and rapidly]. "Hi, Mr. Scott! Hi, Mrs. Scott! Thanks for letting me baby-sit! You have a great house - love the entertainment center! Is this Robby? Hi, Robby, I'm Marsha!"
"You talk too much!" Rob said [shortly].
"Robert Jr.!" [His father was not at all amused.]
The bracketed language could be deleted or shortened. Just a general idea to keep in mind.
Welcome aboard! I look forward to seeing more of your stuff in the Fish Tank.
Cain
From: Alexis Siefert
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: 20 Feb 2002 01:08:11 -0800
Howdy, folks. Sorry I'm late this week. Being a responsible girl, I googled back and am responding immediately after reading, instead of cheating and reading what everyone else had to say first <g> Okay, I'm going to do some of this out of order, and probably not exactly along the guidelines, so bear with me.
First things first. I like the premise of the first real date after parenthood. It's a fantastic place to explore. Sex without worrying about the child interrupting. The stalled car was unexpected (this is a good thing, nice twist, running out of gas - nice play on the cliche. I was thinking it was going to be a quick-but-satisfying grope in the theatre. Thanks for doing something different).
There are two major areas I see that really need improving. The first is a big one - realism. Although the situation you've created is real enough, and therefore should be very easy to connect with as a reader, the internal structure you've written doesn't ring true at all. Little things first - Rob, Laura and Rob Jr? The Petries? Can you, perhaps, do something about this? I kept checking back at the codes to see if I was missing the fanfic/television show code. There are prescription meds for bed wetting, but they're not vitamins. There are holistic remedies for bedwetting that are taken every evening, but they're not vitamins either.
You've done a very good job of putting an entire story into an easy-to-digest length. 3,000 words (give or take) is a nice, middle-of-the-road length for a stand alone story.
Now, I think that you could keep the same length, but do some wonderful cutting-and-expanding to make this a better story. The scene with the babysitter sets the wrong tone at the beginning. Robby doesn't speak like any 8-year-old I know (and yes, I deal with 8-year-olds daily). It's okay to have a well-spoken 8yo, but Robby is an adult's memory of being a well-spoken 8yo. Robby bounces between being highly mature (by his speech patterns) and very young-ish (impulsively hugging a newly-met babysitter. 8yo boys don't generally hug teenaged girls they've just met. That seems to stop around age 5. And, FYI, there aren't many places in the US where it's even legal to consider leaving an 8yo alone. So, the consideration of whether or not he'd catch the kitchen on fire doesn't strike true at all. He'll be old enough for his parents to consider leaving him alone when legally he's old enough for them to start considering it. THEN his pyromaniac-leanings can come into play <g>. All that aside, I think you could lose the entire first scene. The story isn't about Robby and the babysitter. She's not necessary, and opening the story with the scene sets up an expectation that both she and Robby will be important. They really aren't. Not to this story.
I wonder why they've waited until their child is 8 to go on their "first date." I'll admit to not being in this situation, but all of the married couples I know have managed to get out at least soon after their child is weaned from the breast to a bottle (or a sippy cup). No more than 2 years before their first post-baby date. Nope, I'm wrong. I do know of one couple that waited longer, but that was simply because they had another child 10 months after the first ...but I digress.
The scene in the restaurant seems stilted. Either flesh it out and actually show us some of the 'adult' conversation you mention, or cut it completely out and skip right to the car ride and wreck (after a meal of excellent, but overpriced steak and strong wine ...) Frankly, I'd rather see more of their rediscovery of each other. The stops and starts to romance that you hint at (he tries to open her door, but out of habit she does it herself, that sort of thing).
Back to the issue of realism. Try reading your dialogue out loud - either by yourself or back and forth with that wonderfully supportive spouse of yours <g>. Very little of it rings true to my ear. Although I did like this passage:
but only if
This is nice, but immediately before ("the only thing that made him crazier ...") and immediately after the language is more teen or young adult sounding, than I would expect from this couple.
Again, on the issue of realism, check the details and get rid of about half of them. There are a lot of unnecessary things that could go to make the story flow more smoothly. For example -
Nice that he's looking into her eyes, nice that they're warm and inviting, but lose both comments about mascara. This isn't something that he's going to notice - if she wearing just the right amount, he's not going to be able to tell. And she's not going to tell him that, as an adult woman, she can't get her mascara right (that's not really the hard part about eye-makeup). Also, what's he "nope-ing" her about? He looks into her eyes and says "Nope"?
Okay, that's as far as I'm going. I know that there were many other people who have already responded, so I'll check out their comments, and if there's anything that still needs discussion by the end of the week, we can always go back and respond again, right? :-)
Leowulf, thank you for setting your story up for this forum of review and response. It's a great start. You've given a delightful scenario - realistic, romantic, and fun. I like the back and forth of Rob's mood - it struck me as very understandable. Two people who have been communicating as parents trying to be lovers again. It's inevitable that they have problems. I like the foreshadowing of Rob's erratic driving. He's angry with her sarcasm about the bed wetting, so he drives aggressively and they wreck. Some of the conversation inbetween those two points isn't consistent, but like I said, it's a great start. I'd give it a really strong rewrite, then go over it with a fine-toothed-comb for mechanical mistakes (there are many, but they'll most likely straighten themselves out during rewrites).
Looking forward to seeing this one again!
Alexis
From: Father Ignatius
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:35:21 +0200
"Desdmona22" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
This is more a question than a comment. Do Americans kids really talk like that? Do Americans really talk to their kids like that? Do the kids answer like that? The kid and babysitter dialogue read to me like 1960s-Disney wholesome-family-viewing. I saw the baby sitter as the young Hayley Mills.
Nat(posting from South Africa)
"Father Ignatius" <[email protected]> http://www.asstr.org/~FatherIgnatius/Stories.html The Web's Best Illustrated Adult Fiction is at http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:35:07 -0600
On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:35:21 +0200, "Father Ignatius" <[email protected]> wrote:
Hmm, in the same town where Rob and Laura Scott had a hard time getting together for a date? Maybe. At least, it isn't totally out of line for some Americans, though it was a bit odd. Actually, I think that it would make a bit more sense for a 10-11 yo boy or so than an 8 yo, and you need a setting where the babysitter would be formal-polite rather than informal or friendly. We don't know much about the babysitter's relationship with the family, or experience, or such (as a babysitter).
It isn't typical in my experience though. But one of the things we have here is a culture which recognizes the myths of the movies, and will sometimes act them out in real life.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: RocketBlast_76
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 00:58:52 -0500
On 18 Feb 2002 15:27:34 GMT, [email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote:
1) It was easy to follow the flow of the story, as the dialogue carried it along well.
2) I don't know if it was meant as a tease, but once I read about the teenager "bouncing in". It made me think the story was going to take a total different spin than it did.
1) There doesn't seem to be a lot of description regarding the scenery. As an example, when they hop into the back of the station wagon, I am imagining a worn space with sand embedded into the carpet. At least that's how most station wagons end up that I've seen, especially after having an kid for 8 years. It makes it hard to imagine that it's almost as comfortable as their bed ... I'd hate to sleep in their bed.
2) Just a preference, with the story conatining so much about the child, it seems too "puritan", especially when you finish it off with a quick description of their hurried lovemaking. It may detract from the erotic qualities of the story, but it certainly conveys the difficulties that parents might have with ther sex lives after having kids (Chalk the last section into the "positive comments" section.)
From: Always Horny
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2002 13:39:05 +0100
Desdmona22 wrote:
The whole setting (same old married) is nice and refreshing. Grammar is well done throughout.
Reminded me of a recent post by Uther about chopping of the first paragraph or two because the story starts after those. For me the whole scene with the kid can go or be replaced by one introductory sentence.
The accident (hitting the guardrail) adds nothing and can go too. So they run out of gas, period. It is unlikely enough as it is.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Desdmona
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: 22 Feb 2002 20:44:02 GMT
Leowulf~
My first impression when reading this story is there's some really great stuff. The relationship the couple shares, the playfulness, such as,
" ...Does that remind you of anything?"
Rob glanced at the entr�e - and it's price. "That the mortgage payment is due?"
And
"What about the cinema? 'Just one movie that's not made by Disney, 'remember?"
And
"Mr. Scott, guess what your son did!"
"Burned down the house?" Rob dodged his wife's playful slap.
This is wonderful. It shows me a couple that still enjoys one another's company even though "life" has take over their time. I like that a lot.
I think you miss a great opportunity in the restaurant to build on this playfulness. I'd love to have seen the dialogue that you hint at: "In fact, their conversation became a bit more intimate as they lingered over dessert and a third glass of wine." This also would have been a great time for some foreplay ...holding hands, kissing, lingering looks, etc.
I agree with those that have already stated that the bit with Rob Jr. and the babysitter is too much. So much time is spent with this scene that it led me to believe the story was going to be about Robbie and the babysitter. I think the information it gives us about Robby is important. He's a handful - maybe this is one reason why there's been no dating. What parent doesn't worry about who they leave their child with? Unfortunately, if one of the reason's for not dating was because of the type of child Robby is, then it doesn't ring true that when they finally do decide they can leave him with someone, it's with a giggly teenager. Yikes! There's a few solutions, 1) have the date be the first date in quite awhile - not the first date in 8 years. 2) Have the babysitter be a trusted friend (adult) 3) start the story with Rob and Laura already in the car, on the way to the restaurant - discussing their angst about leaving Robby (I especially like this solution because it doesn't give Robby or the babysitter playing time in a story that's not about them anyway.)
I love the time spent on the little things that are normal for a date, but this couple have forgotten, for whatever reason, like when she hops out of the car and locks the door before he has a chance to come and open the door for her. I would have liked to see her recognize that silly moment as well ... maybe shrug when she sees what he's tried to do and giggle with him over it. It's just another place for playful tension.
I was jarred in several places where the emotions went from one end of the scale to the other in one sentence. He's angry, impatient, irritated, grumbling all the while supposedly filled with adoration for his lovely wife. He's angry enough to jerk the car out of the parking space and then slam on the brakes, and yet she's still calling him, "dear." Rob almost seems like a powder keg about to blow. Maybe you could soften some of the emotions and make him come across as disappointed rather than angry.
The one other thing I have to say, and please take this with a grain of salt, as it's my own personal preference - I'd lose some of the endearments in the dialogue. "My darling, my sweet, my dear, my love ... used once or twice can be loving, but nearly every time they say something seems unnatural.
I'm so glad you're wife talked you into submitting this story to the FishTank. It's got the makings of a superb married couple story ...and those are some of my favorite.
Thanks Again!
Des
From: Leowulf
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 19:42:06 -0000
Thank you all for reading this short story. I was glad to read your insightful comments.
To address some of the concerns raised:
Nope, it's not a fanfic. Apologies to the Petries, who we remember lived in New Rochelle with their son Ritchie. Perhaps there was some subconscious intrusion, as I remember them as a "typical" married couple who liked each other (or what I would want a "typical" couple to be, unlike far too many couples these days, who don't really seem to like each other).
The primary concerns about too many adverbs (which concern i read seriously and critically) and poor use of commas (to be most candid, I don't think there were too many, just poorly used, in my opinion) were I believe quite accurate. This time it can be attributed to novice writing, but I will definitely be aware of both issues should I write again.
I was impressed with one writer's comment that younger Rob is not really an 8-year-old, but an adult's memory of being a precocious 8-year-old. As one is, in a sense, every character in one's dreams, a writer must be every character about whom he or she writes. Why all (both) the hugs enjoyed by this peripheral character? I was very affectionate as a child, but raised by a very reserved man (though he was quite emotional, which of course made everything, even being reserved, an issue of considerable emotional weight). Perhaps this was a means of vicariously having some hugs that were overlooked in that era.
The bouncy babysitter is of course every male child's dream-come-true, but I included her to wet the reader's appetite. Her inclusion is a teaser, hopefully putting nubile young sexuality in the back of the reader's mind.
I was embarrassed to read that one of the parts of the story was not really clear. Here is the segment:
and inviting, and she wore just enough mascara.
Rob is looking at his wife, and with the reader we see that she is quite attractive. Then it twists, and the reader should have been shown that the reason he was looking into her doe-eyes was because his wife is simply asking about her technical results with the make-up and not because they were being the young lovers that they are prevented from being until the end of the tale. Kind of like, "is my hair parted straight?"
The reader was meant to intuit that his statement is in response to a question she just asked ("Dear, is my mascara too heavy/light/whatever women wonder about that sort of thing"). It was another more subtle and unfortunately less effective way of showing this as the couple stuck as "married-best-friends-growing-old-together" instead of "young-nymphet-with- hot-stud" that they (and presumably the reader) want them to be.
Their near accident was the last intentional distraction from their flirting. I wanted it rather than just running out of gas because of the suddenness and emergency nature of the "BANG!", as counterpoint to the preempted handjob, and I thought it logical consequense of driving too fast at night while a bit tipsy and being felt up. The running out of gas was of course a shameless cliche. I'm glad it was taken as such, and that it was mostly seen as fun.
I agree that the actual sex scene was over way too fast, in more ways than one. Endings are difficult in some stories. I wanted to end the story there, with the reader seeing them finally having sex in the back of the car like two teenagers on a date, finally being/having what they wanted through the whole story. Hopefully they lay atop the blanket in the back of the station wagon. :)
Beginnings are also difficult. I could have probably dismissed their rushed exit from their house in Suburbia with a passing comment or two, but it was a good warm up, like running a few meters before vaulting the horse or doing the flip sequence on the floor routine in gymnastics. Not important in itself, just providing momentum for the real stuff.
I do hope that you all remembered to brush your teeth after reading this story. <g> I like "rom" story codes and sugary sweet dialog and descriptions. Real life is bitter enough at times, and my stories were always meant to add some sweetness. That doesn't mean that nothing bad ever happens, just that my principles usually love each other very much, or at least they like each other a lot, and show it often.
There is some carry-over of this into rl - my wife and I use lots of "my love" and other sweetnesses in talking together and tell each other of our love for each other daily. This story is not autobiographical, but our daughter was a handful. My wife and I didn't have a real date together until our daughter was about six, and then I was still worried about her - even though she was being watched by one of my best friends and his wife, both fellow ministerial students! :)
Take Care and thanks for the replies!
Leo W. Ulf
From: Leowulf
Re: The Date, by Leowulf
Date: Sun, 24 Feb 2002 22:00:09 -0000
There were some other things I should have commented on in the above response. I always thought of "The Twist" as a "doo-wop" song, with its background singers/hummers, but in retrospect Elvis is not really doo-wop.
I agree that the thing about vitamins to cure bedwetting is not clear enough and may detract from the flow of the story. R and L are probably using ADH (antidiuretic hormone) or more likely an imaginary vitamin that only exists in their universe (kindly old Dr. Johnson perhaps advised increasing Juniors intake of vitamin x, you know). For more on "Vitamin X," please see:
http://www.vitaminexpress.com/atoz/x-quick.htm
The problem's inclusion is meant to provide yet another "real-life" intrusion on R and L's romantic evening, with a rather unglamorous parenting issue. And it provides an excuse to have them have to cut their date short and get back on the road, so they can run out of gas. <g>
The emotions are a bit volatile in this story. They'd be better muted a little. One of those "less is more" things. :) Of course R and L, like some Moms and Dads, could be seething volcanos of intense emotion beneath that "wash-your-hands-before-you-eat" exterior ... <g>
Ok, I think that's everything. Thanks again!
Leo Wulf
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