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From: Jack C Lipton
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 02:50:49 GMT
Dryad wrote:
Desdmona wrote:
OK, you've all had a nice little hiatus from the FishTank and now it's time to get back into the groove of things. This week our story is from another author taking the plunge for the first time. It's a complete story at 6,766 words. The author sums it up like this: Togetherness is good to have.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Questions? Concerns? Submissions? Send them to [email protected] or [email protected]
The FishTank website is woefully in need of updating. My apologies to one and all. Keep your fingers crossed, and maybe we can take care of that by week's end. In the meantime, complete story guidelines may be found at: http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base/storyguide.html
************************************* Taken (FM rom 1st oral) By Jack C Lipton
[email protected]
<snipping one very good story>
Positive comments:
Jack's forlorn character comes shining through. I've known men like that, and it was completely believable and very heartfelt.
"It[the kiss] felt like it had been both instantaneous and forever."
I loved this line. so many times i've tried to explain how a kiss can feel like this.
Suggestions:
As someone who has NO idea where you were talking about ...the road directions just confused me and messed up the nice rhythm you had built. I could see Rt. #'s so those who DO know where you're talking about ...but the from here to here to here just seemed to drag it down.
Well, I figured that it'd add a little flavor (of location) to the story; it's a real enough place, a real enough run, and I've been on it w/ my then GF.
Sorry, the extraneous details like the third rail being labelled as "625 Volts" is far more real than one with a warning of "600 Volts". I recall there being a study of why this is so but I don't recall what the results were or when it was done.
While a good point ... yes, it does break up the rhythm, so I'll have to re-think whether I want the rhythm broken up.
BTW, the ride north out of Port Jervis is very pleasant with a wonderful view of the Delaware River valley and it's environs.
Another place to ride ... especially if it's on a sport-touring motorcycle ... is route 89A between Sedona and Flagstaff. I don't want to ride down (southbound) on a bike, but going north-bound would be wonderful.
If I'd done enough research there I would have had fun with that location as well.
I use parentheses a lot. But i'm wondering if perhaps you might cut down on them a bit in here ...they seemed to pop up all over, making them lose their punch.
I thought about parenthesizing the "I recall" remark above but I didn't want people asking "who's he talking to? how does he make his voice do that?". (Yes, a Firesign Theater reference. I slipped one into "Horizontal Integration", too.)
In my mind, the parentheses are more insidious, kind of like hearing the theramin (a Robert Klein reference) allowing you to distance yourself from the action, kind of like muttering, sotto voce, another imprecation.
All in all a very endearing story ...sniffles and all:)
(bowing ... or is that abject genuflection to an appreciative audience?)
Keep the critiques coming in ... I need something to distract me from real life and Perl scripting (where parentheses have their place) ...
Actually, considering how a parenthesized expression in a shell (Bourne, Korn or Bourne-Again) spawns a sub-shell, maybe that is why I overutilize them; my stories sometimes read like a shell script ... :-) :-)
Jack C Lipton | [email protected] | http://www.asstr.org/~CupaSoup/
"Fighting to preserve peace is like coition to preserve virginity" - unkn
From: Tesseract
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: 27 May 2003 04:47:56 -0700
[email protected] (Jack C Lipton) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
Dryad wrote:
Desdmona wrote:
OK, you've all had a nice little hiatus from the FishTank and now it's time to get back into the groove of things. This week our story is from another author taking the plunge for the first time. It's a complete story at 6,766 words. The author sums it up like this: Togetherness is good to have.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Questions? Concerns? Submissions? Send them to [email protected] or [email protected]
The FishTank website is woefully in need of updating. My apologies to one and all. Keep your fingers crossed, and maybe we can take care of that by week's end. In the meantime, complete story guidelines may be found at: http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base/storyguide.html
************************************* Taken (FM rom 1st oral) By Jack C Lipton
[email protected]
<snipping one very good story>
Positive comments:
Jack's forlorn character comes shining through. I've known men like that, and it was completely believable and very heartfelt.
"It[the kiss] felt like it had been both instantaneous and forever."
I loved this line. so many times i've tried to explain how a kiss can feel like this.
Suggestions:
As someone who has NO idea where you were talking about ...the road directions just confused me and messed up the nice rhythm you had built. I could see Rt. #'s so those who DO know where you're talking about ...but the from here to here to here just seemed to drag it down.
Well, I figured that it'd add a little flavor (of location) to the story; it's a real enough place, a real enough run, and I've been on it w/ my then GF.
Sorry, the extraneous details like the third rail being labelled as "625 Volts" is far more real than one with a warning of "600 Volts". I recall there being a study of why this is so but I don't recall what the results were or when it was done.
While a good point ... yes, it does break up the rhythm, so I'll have to re-think whether I want the rhythm broken up.
BTW, the ride north out of Port Jervis is very pleasant with a wonderful view of the Delaware River valley and it's environs.
Another place to ride ... especially if it's on a sport-touring motorcycle ... is route 89A between Sedona and Flagstaff. I don't want to ride down (southbound) on a bike, but going north-bound would be wonderful.
If I'd done enough research there I would have had fun with that location as well.
I use parentheses a lot. But i'm wondering if perhaps you might cut down on them a bit in here ...they seemed to pop up all over, making them lose their punch.
I thought about parenthesizing the "I recall" remark above but I didn't want people asking "who's he talking to? how does he make his voice do that?". (Yes, a Firesign Theater reference. I slipped one into "Horizontal Integration", too.)
In my mind, the parentheses are more insidious, kind of like hearing the theramin (a Robert Klein reference) allowing you to distance yourself from the action, kind of like muttering, sotto voce, another imprecation.
All in all a very endearing story ...sniffles and all:)
(bowing ... or is that abject genuflection to an appreciative audience?)
Keep the critiques coming in ... I need something to distract me from real life and Perl scripting (where parentheses have their place) ...
Actually, considering how a parenthesized expression in a shell (Bourne, Korn or Bourne-Again) spawns a sub-shell, maybe that is why I overutilize them; my stories sometimes read like a shell script ... :-) :-)
Jack, Jack, Jack, you volunteered for this assignment. And you've been around here long enough to know the rules. You have to shut up until the end of the week.
If you simply must talk, answer my SCO/IBM post.
Tesseract
From: Tesseract
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: 27 May 2003 04:36:40 -0700
"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
Taken (FM rom 1st oral)
By Jack C Lipton
[email protected]
That's some story. You painted Nicole so well that I could taste her. As for him, well, allowing for poetic license, you seem to have transplanted my personality, though no Nicole ever found me. Maybe that's why it's called fiction.
...know her availability to get together for dinner and movies.
Maybe like this:
...know her availability for dinner and movies.
or:
...know she desired to get together for dinner and movies.
People hadn't recognized us as a "serious" couple.
You haven't laid any foundation to make this statement here.
Of course, at the time, neither did I.
And without the above sentence, this one won't make any sense.
We got together before sunrise and got onto the Parkway {(instead of Rt 18 which we could've taken instead)} at Exit 105 and headed north for Route 3. Three merged with 46 and then we went through that God-forsaken malfunction junction to get to 23.
You already have too many directions that you did take; we don't really need routes that you didn't take.
If you really want some of this, tighten it up:
We got together before sunrise and took the Parkway north to Route 3, where it merged with Route 46, and then through that {God-forsaken malfunction junction}[I likte that turn of phrase. Otherwise I would say just forget about the thing.] to Route 23.
And spell out Route; don't use the abbreviation.
Along the
run were plenty of painted rocks sported weird comments like "Jesus Saves, Moses Invests" along with the greek letters one half-expected. {The greek letters showed up often as well.}
The marked passage just repeats what is directly above it.
{I'd had too much experience at
having my heart ripped right out} and I was now unprepared to have it comforted instead.
I got the impression that he has very little experience so how could he have suffered so?
Toying with her nipples, Nicole was looking him in the eyes when she started gasping, apparently reaching climax, and he hurriedly followed my example.
Serves him right.
We were able to watch as they decided to {forego even / also forego} their bathing suits and took turns spreading the
Once they lay down in the sun, it was time for Nicole and {I / me} [pet peeve] to turn back over.
everyone else in the house as I unleashed a stream into {/dev/null.}
Nice in joke, but things like that can severely limit your audience, and for no goo reason.
Overall its's a good story, with just few details that could be better. I don't consider it a waste of time reading it. Quite the contrary.
Tesseract
From: Bradley Stoke
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: 27 May 2003 11:07:31 -0700
Jack
We all have favourite fantasies, and for many people on ASSM those fantasies are pretty dangerous ones. This is quite a pleasant one, if exactly as improbable (as far as I can see) as all those other ones involving animals and a shared taste in enemas.
It's nice to imagine that one's first sexual encounter, after years of not having achieved a great deal, would be perfect in every way. A beautiful girl who wants to go all the way on the first date, a nudist in a family of nudists (but no sign of men in the family), and whose sexual teasing arouses one's work colleagues to a near-orgy of consensual canoodling. It's such a relatively harmless fantasy that you really want to like it, although to be honest I was rather hoping for some nasty twist at the end.
I'd liked to have got to know more about Nicole. At the end of the story, we know a great deal about what Jack thinks of her (how beautiful, erotic, etc.), even more about how it makes him ejaculate with such remarkable facility and how little Jack thinks he deserves her. Somehow, though, she remains mostly just a fantasy woman. And an ASSM fantasy at that: she's not a girl likely to wait for her second date to lose her virginity, nor a girl with a "history". And I found all the American colloquialisms a bit irritating. They didn't add local colour for me. Indeed, they just sound lazy.
But it seems mean to slight a story with such a heart-warming vision of sexual relations. As a fantasy it really is a very positive kind of thing, designed to bring a song to the heart and joy to the bosom. And it all ends happily ever after. I bet they get married, have kids and drive around in those SUVs that are such big shakes in the land where Moses invests and Jesus saves.
So, all in all, very much a hymn to togetherness and how very good it is to have. Very upbeat.
Bradley Stoke
http://www.asstr.org/~Bradley_Stoke
From: PleaseCain
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: 27 May 2003 21:52:44 GMT
Jack comes across like a real, sympathetic person, all his passions and insecurities played out in his internal dialogue. Conversely, I would like to be able to see her more. We understand she is beautiful and he is enamored of her, but what of her physical appearance or mannerisms make it so? Her warmth and understanding definitely shine through, but what details make her different from other warm and understanding people?
Similarly, the setup is a long narrative, in place of events which help us understand the situation: in short, it is "telling" instead of "showing." On the other hand, their first love scene together was well-written and sweet. I enjoyed it, thank you!
Cain
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: 28 May 2003 14:39:33 GMT
This is quite wonderful in a way: you've extended the world of Nathaniel West, Terry Southern, Bruce Jay Friedman, and Eli the Bearded right out the other side. Lots of scrubbing and simplifying needed, though, to make the fiction sing.
The bland guy comes across in a weird way: he says he's twenty-five but he narrates like he's at least middle-aged. That's fine. His repetition bothers me more.
Is Nicole six years older or six years younger? I don't see her well enough early enough.
You do some loopy sentence structure stuff. Sometimes it's endearing:
My little car was doing well enough in the curves of the road and was a lot of fun and the talk in the car was enjoyable to my ear. <<
Often, though, it's tiring or confusing. Let's look at this paragraph:
Her warm hand was on mine before the realization struck me that I had actually taken the initiative in asking her on this trip and being the first time I'd asked anything of her. She squeezed my hand, smiled and I suddenly felt both elated that she liked me and also so exposed. As a peasant, my soft spot was now visible to my princess. I was now so vulnerable. I'd had too much experience at having my heart ripped right out and I was now unprepared to have it comforted instead. <<
I don't understand how "and being the first time" fits into its sentence. "Both" doesn't go with "also." The peasant princess stuff irritates me for some reason. Most important: I never had the feeling this guy had any experience at all in matters of the heart. I single out this paragraph, but nearly every paragraph needs careful examination.
I love the way pace works: one of those upside down triangles, one of those inverted deltas which funnel us to paydirt. Still, I'd do lots of trimming all through.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 22:21:25 -0500
On Mon, 26 May 2003 08:23:15 -0400, "Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote:
Jack and Nicole come across as interesting people. But for each, their background is something of a mystery.
There I was, almost 25, still a virgin. I was sure I'd never find someone for me. It was far too easy to see the others I worked with as being happy and I felt left out, unlucky and undesirable.
I see his current state, and the story painfully illustrates how he feels about it. But it doesn't explain how he got to be that way. Or if there were some big negative attempts at changing it which deterred further pursuit of the options. It is understandably hard to create a big backstory which explains the situation, but a few casual references to events might not hurt.
I empathize with Jack, but can't help wonder about his past. I think it is fair to say that a little self-confidence does wonders for making relationships start. He must have something there in his personality, otherwise Nicole wouldn't like him quite so much. I think that those parts need to show more.
Until I met Nicole. Then I felt confused. I knew I wasn't handsome enough to attract and win such a lively young woman who my friends rated as a "ten and a half", but she still would talk to me and let me know her availability to get together for dinner and movies. Surely the age difference (about 6 years) between us should have torpedoed any hope on my part, so I wasn't about to press.
A small repeat, and question: about 6 years doesn't say if she is older or younger, and nothing else in the tale clarifies it. A 19 year old "young friend" who happens to be a virgin isn't so unusual. Also, depending on the crowd, that doesn't have to be a barrier as an age difference.
If she is about 31 or so, though, it seems like it would be less of a barrier. But also, given her other actions, her virginity would seem more unusual. So I'm guessing that it is "about six years younger".
Dinner and movies sound like dates. Have then gone out together with friends, if not alone? Later comments suggest that they have, that he's been over to her place (and vice versa) to some degree.
While Jack didn't press in this situation, did he think about it often? Did he do other things to show his interest as something more than just friendship, even though he refused to speak about it?
It seems likely to me, but not so much of that shows.
The date itself proceeds nicely along. Once Nicole gets naked, though, things speed up way too fast. Not that it couldn't happen, given that she is a nudist and seems open about sex, but having it all work out so well with coworkers around just seems really lucky. Many people, looking for that nice first time opportunity, would wander away from their friends for privacy. Doing it all out in the open is fun. But only if you're into it. Is Jack? I'd think that the embarrassment and worry would outweigh the positives of arousal.
In this as well, the difference in experience between the two is a sharp contrast. Jack hasn't seen naked breasts at all. Nicole seems comfortable around naked people, and while nothing is said, being a "virgin" doesn't require a total lack of sexual experience.
Nicole's mother's actions suggest that she has quite a bit, and perhaps her mother was pushing for her to finally "do it."
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Altan
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 01:59:41 GMT
On Mon, 26 May 2003 08:23:15 -0400, "Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote:
OK, you've all had a nice little hiatus from the FishTank and now it's time to get back into the groove of things. This week our story is from another author taking the plunge for the first time. It's a complete story at 6,766 words. The author sums it up like this: Togetherness is good to have. FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Hi Jack,
A beautiful story. I loved it. Even though the story is a fantasy, it almost could be real. And that is my first positive: the story is very believable, except for a few details (more about that later).
Second positive: the emotions. This is a story about a relationship for all the right reasons. When Nicole explains why she loves him, it makes sense. Those would be exactly the reasons to love a man like Jack, a man who is very sweet and sensitive, but lacks self confidence. I guess I'm repeating myself as far as believability goes, but I have to repeat what Tesseract said as well: it is as if you described me, and those are very much the reasons my wife claims made her fall in love with me.
As for the improvements: why is Nicole a virgin? That threw me off, and I never got to terms with it. She doesn't behave like one. In taking the lead, in being comfortable with sex in front of others, in the sex itself, in the way she behaved back home: she behaves as if she is experienced. That also meshes with her emotions, with her falling in love with Jack. I see her as having had a lot of boyfriends, maybe even a failed marriage. She finally realized that that is not what she wants, and sees in Jack exactly what she IS looking for. To me, with Nicole not as a virgin but as an experienced woman, everything falls into place. She suddenly "makes sense" and so does the whole story. With that one change, I can actually believe this as a real story (albeit unlikely).
A second suggestion: do you need Jack moving in the next day? This seemed very, very fast. I didn't understand that part. Why the hurry?
A.
http://www.asstr.org/~altan/
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: 30 May 2003 15:41:21 GMT
Altan writes:
A second suggestion: do you need Jack moving in the next day? This seemed very, very fast. I didn't understand that part. Why the hurry?
If anything, waiting a day is too long. What I see as one of the main charms of this story is the acceleration. It has to start very slowly, very traditionally, and gradually but inevitably rocket into the sublime extreme but always with as natural and as unabashed a mein as possible.
The movement becomes a sort of sexual mirror.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: 30 May 2003 15:51:32 GMT
but
always with as natural and as unabashed a mein as possible
I mean mien of course!
- Mat
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: Desdmona
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 19:59:24 -0400
Taken (FM rom 1st oral)
By Jack C Lipton
[email protected]
Jack~
Thank you very much for risking putting a story in the FishTank for us to digest. Your hesitance to open yourself up to criticism reminds me of the Jack in the story - sensitive, frightened, but wanting to dip a toe into the pond of life.
Jack's hopes, fears, insecurities, shyness are all very well shown. There's no doubt in my mind about who Jack is. Jeff Z. asks why Jack is the way he is, and I think it's a very valid question. What makes a twenty-five year old man so frightened of love? It's not that I don't believe it's possible, because I do, it's just I want to understand it a little more.
Personally, I've always found shyness in a man very attractive, so when Nicole falls for him, I believe that as well, especially when she enumerates her reasons for falling for Jack.
The biggest problem, for me, in this story is trying to figure out what it wants to be. Does it want to be purely fantasy - everything perfect? Or is it an emotional story about first love? For me, the two don't gel well. Nearly every paragraph is filled with Jack's angst, and yet he easily strips and fucks in front of friends. And does being a nudist also mean that having sexual relations in front of others is no big deal, even for the first time? Nicole seems to be a sensitive girl. Being a nudist gives us an excuse for her freedom of nudity, but it doesn't help us to understand why she's so willing to lose her virginity in front of others. When you add this to the scene at Nicole's house with her family, it adds a bit of a sinister, cult-like feel to the whole thing for me, as if Nicole was following through with some sort of ritual that was required of her.
For these reasons, I feel like this could be two very different stories. The first could be about Jack and Nicole, and how they experience their first time. Reworking the sex scene, to give them privacy, would add to the emotion of the first half of the story. You could even get rid of the other couples all together and concentrate on the sensitive union. The story could end there so we have the build-up, the hesitancy, and the finality of two people losing their virginity.
The second story would take on a more sinister tone. Nicole seduces Jack to make love in front of the others, Jack thinks it's all about love, but when he ends up at Nicole's house, he finds out its more, it's a ritual. Nicole's family is all women. It was her turn to bring a man to the house . anyway, you get the idea.
Personally, I like the first idea better. My heart went out to Jack and I rooted for him to finally get love. When things turned fantastical, I felt cheated, like I'd been rooting for something that wasn't real to start with.
A final note: I agree with Dryad about the road directions. The thing is they're interesting enough without giving them a number. For example:
We got together before sunrise and got onto the Parkway (instead of Rt 18 which we could've taken instead) at Exit 105 and headed north for Route 3. Three merged with 46 and then we went through that God-forsaken malfunction junction to get to 23. Route 23 is, once you get past Pompton Lakes, a pleasant country ride up into the North-West corner of New Jersey with nice stretches of highway and even some small towns to go through. Along the run were plenty of painted rocks sported weird comments like "Jesus Saves, Moses Invests" along with the greek letters one half-expected.
Could be:
I picked Nicole up before sunrise. We headed north, but there was very little conversation as I maneuvered through several road changes to get to the main freeway. Once we made it past the God-forsaken malfunction junction, the drive was easier. Long stretches of highway was flanked with oddly painted rocks, sporting weird comments like, "Jesus Saves, Moses Invests." It kept us entertained.
Or:
We'd already worked our way through Port Jervis and were climbing up along Route 97, the River Road on the New York side of the Delaware River, a wonderful view on a twisty little road.
Might be:
We'd already worked our way through several port towns and was climbing up the river road, a twisty little road with a wonderful view of the Delaware River, when ...
Hope this helps!
Des
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: 31 May 2003 01:17:48 GMT
Desdmona writes:
I agree with Dryad about the road directions. The thing is they're interesting enough without giving them a number. For example:
The sample rewrites are great - effortlessly smooth. But by eliminating the meticulous detail of specific name and number we lose some of the narrator's character. The writer's got to do a balancing act: show us the way the narrator's mind works while at the same time not boring us. I'd suggest leaving the detail and cleaning up the passages in other ways.
We got together before sunrise and got onto the Parkway (instead of Rt 18 which we could've taken instead) at Exit 105 and headed north for Route 3.
I picked up Nicole before sunrise, and instead of taking Route 18, I entered the Parkway at Exit 105 and drove north to Route 3.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: Gray Beard
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 20:33:33 -0700
Jack -
Thanks for sharing your story.
I thought the basic setup was pretty good; I liked the idea of an unsure-of-himself virgin finding love. I, myself, didn't have my first kiss until age 19.
I like the first paragraph, and I also think the non-sentence starting the second paragraph works, even though I usually dislike them. This one brings some punch.
On the other hand, as others have pointed out, there are some characterization inconsistencies - based on what we know of the characters, they would not have acted as they did. But rather than repeat those, let me just comment on a couple of wording issues:
:This brought on a sudden feeling of peace and :contentment that ran through me despite the doubt still :in my heart, trying to wrap my own arms around her :even though my eyes were still closed. The tightness :in my chest eased and I was breathing more normally :again.
This sentence runs on, twisting half-way through in a way I found hard to follow. I'd have put a period where the comma is. I'm not sure how to convey the rest of the sentence, other than to turn it into "I tried to wrap ..." If you did want to keep the whole thing together, perhaps to try to show both the emotion and its effect in a single sentence, then perhaps you could have tried:
:This brought on a sudden feeling of peace and :contentment that ran through me despite the doubt still :in my heart, and I tried to wrap my own arms around her :even while my eyes were still closed.
There are also too many cliches. The following section was especially rough:
<<<Reality intervened>>> when I saw the clock on the dashboard, and, with more than a little bit of reluctance, asked "Shall we <<<get this show back on the road>>>? I think we've probably lost our lead on the others already. And I am now REALLY looking forward to <<<having you ALL to myself>>> in a canoe." Her smile as she nodded <<<hit me again like a pile-driver>>> and <<<I went through the motions>>> of getting ready to roll again.
The two in dialog are OK if you want your character to speak in cliches, but if so, you probably need to be extra careful not to use more around the dialog.
Anyway, it was all a nice fantasy.
- Gray Beard
From: Tesseract
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: 31 May 2003 00:16:58 -0700
"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
Taken (FM rom 1st oral)
By Jack C Lipton
[email protected]
For these reasons, I feel like this could be two very different stories. The first could be about Jack and Nicole, and how they experience their first time. Reworking the sex scene, to give them privacy, would add to the emotion of the first half of the story. You could even get rid of the other couples all together and concentrate on the sensitive union. The story could end there so we have the build-up, the hesitancy, and the finality of two people losing their virginity.
One of the things I liked about the group was how the women seemed to take over and set the mood, defusing somewhat boorish behaviour.
Tesseract
From: Kelli Halliburton
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: Sat, 31 May 2003 19:12:27 GMT
Tesseract wrote:
One of the things I liked about the group was how the women seemed to take over and set the mood, defusing somewhat boorish behaviour.
Yes; I appreciated how Nicole took an unusual course to defend Jack's involuntary response when Chris tried to make fun.
I would have commented on this story more here in the Fish Tank, but the problem is that I know the greater context from which it sprang. I wouldn't be able to look at it as a self-contained piece.
From: Dryad
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: 1 Jun 2003 12:16:41 -0700
"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
Taken (FM rom 1st oral)
By Jack C Lipton
[email protected]
<snip>
The biggest problem, for me, in this story is trying to figure out what it wants to be. Does it want to be purely fantasy - everything perfect? Or is it an emotional story about first love? For me, the two don't gel well. Nearly every paragraph is filled with Jack's angst, and yet he easily strips and fucks in front of friends. And does being a nudist also mean that having sexual relations in front of others is no big deal, even for the first time? Nicole seems to be a sensitive girl. Being a nudist gives us an excuse for her freedom of nudity, but it doesn't help us to understand why she's so willing to lose her virginity in front of others. When you add this to the scene at Nicole's house with her family, it adds a bit of a sinister, cult-like feel to the whole thing for me, as if Nicole was following through with some sort of ritual that was required of her.
<snip>
Des, I'm glad you brought this up. I avoided saying anything in my first run through, because I was treating it as a "your-kink-isn't-necessarily-my-kink" But, it was (is still) a bother to me. Nudists have no problem showing their bodies, because (for the most part) they don't consider nudity sexual. To connotate the fact that she's okay having sex because she's a nudist doesn't quite jive.
And that being said ...the mother assisting ...really did strike a chord. It just didn't fit in an otherwise really beautiful story:)
slips back into the shadows
Dryad
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: 01 Jun 2003 22:06:23 GMT
Dryad writes:
It just didn't fit in an otherwise really beautiful story
And that's the beauty of it.
Sure, Lipton could calm and coax this baby into an "ordinary" romance. If he wants to work it that way, fine. Me, I love the clash, the stretch, and the way shooting into one uneasy direction after another doesn't actually take the story off the romantic track at all. Sedate merry-go-round to screaming roller-coaster - yeah!
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
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From: Dryad
Re: Taken, by Jack C Lipton
Date: 26 May 2003 12:46:36 -0700
"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
<snipping one very good story>
Positive comments:
Jack's forlorn character comes shining through. I've known men like that, and it was completely believable and very heartfelt.
"It[the kiss] felt like it had been both instantaneous and forever."
I loved this line. so many times i've tried to explain how a kiss can feel like this.
Suggestions:
As someone who has NO idea where you were talking about ...the road directions just confused me and messed up the nice rhythm you had built. I could see Rt. #'s so those who DO know where you're talking about ...but the from here to here to here just seemed to drag it down.
I use parentheses a lot. But i'm wondering if perhaps you might cut down on them a bit in here ...they seemed to pop up all over, making them lose their punch.
All in all a very endearing story ...sniffles and all:)
smiles
Dryad