The separator between the comment pane and the story pane is moveable. Drag it up or down if you need more room to read on the screen.
From: Katie McN
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:39:01 GMT
Hi Bradley!
"Desdmona" <[email protected]>,
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 09:07:14 -0500 I noticed your interesting post:
The following story is the first submission for one of our faithful participants to the FishTank. I think anyone that shows such loyalty deserves loyalty in return. This is a complete short story at 1,579 words. The author prefers to have no set up for the story. He would appreciate our thoughts.
Thanks for putting your writing under the microscope. I think this is one of the best things we do on ASSD and am happy to be one of the (if not the) first to provide input on your writing.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
Your story contains a number of interesting elements that almost force the reader to move quickly to the end. I couldn't wait to find out why the woman wasn't wearing clothes in a public place; how she was able to know that the fully dressed shop girl had pubic hair longer than her head hair; and, what to make of the fetish references near the end of the story. These kept me reading and wondering how you were going to pull everything together.
I liked the surprise when the shop girl suddenly kisses the woman on her pussy. It was very provocative and got me thinking about the upcoming sex scene. When you moved the story away from these elements before anything happened, I knew we had things to learn and couldn't wait to see what they were. You built tension in your story with this incident and what was mentioned in the first observation. You make the reader wait for the explanation of these plot points. My head was full of "What does it all mean?" and I didn't have clear ideas about where you were going which made it even more fun.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
I felt the opening contained far too much narrative description before we get to a place where anything interesting happens. This includes having the character look in the mirror to describe herself. The mirror technique is frequently mentioned in writing books as a cliche used because an author can't come up with a way to describe a character. I like cliches used in stories in new ways, but it didn't seem to be useful here. I would have found the start much more interesting if the shop girl's dialog from later in the story was use to start things off instead:
'"What do you think of the shoes?" asked the girl. <<Katie adds>> "I love what they do for your legs."'
This might be a way to get the reader into the story right away and foreshadow the upcoming pussy kiss. The reader knows there are things to learn so when the narrator interrupts with information about the character it creates tension instead of causing the reader to wonder what is going on with the story. It would also be possible for the characters to interact in dialog at this point and give the reader enough information about the main character's looks such that the opening narrative could be minimized or even eliminated.
You provide the reader with many intriguing story elements such as those mentioned above and other things sprinkled throughout the story. I was interested in seeing what you were going to do with them and disappointed when I discovered that nothing was tied together as the story concludes. I assume that this is an experimental writing and possibly part of a larger work where we are given more information and explanation. I feel out of place trying to offer a suggestion for improvement because you didn't explain what you were trying to achieve with this writing. Is it part of another story, a stream of consciousness writing exercise or ... ? I feel unsatisfied that you piqued my interest with various story elements as mentioned above and then did nothing to tie them together.
I hope you find my thoughts useful and I look forward to seeing what you plan on doing with this writing.
It's Me! Katie McN
<[email protected]>
Read My Stories at:
www.katie-mcn.com
From: Eli the Bearded
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:51:16 +0000 (UTC)
In alt.sex.stories.d, Desdmona <[email protected]> wrote:
1) 2 positive comments
Unlike Katie, I don't feel that this isn't tied together well. I like the shoes binding it together. She is shopping for shoes, the shoestore clerk gives her that shocking, delicious intimacy, the porn that represents the sexual stupor of her marriage is stored in a shoebox.
The universe this has been put into is very intriguing. I like how we have to figure out the norms of it on our own.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
I don't like the subservient wife role. Expected to wait upstairs until the match is over? How does that help the story?
I can't stand the formating. Don't double-space, don't justify fixed width text.
3) Try not to repeat!
I had to repeat my enjoyment of the universe. It is too important.
Elijah
likes the sexless aspect, too
From: Conjugate
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 19:56:13 -0700
"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
The following story is the first submission for one of our faithful participants to the FishTank. I think anyone that shows such loyalty deserves loyalty in return. This is a complete short story at 1,579 words. The author prefers to have no set up for the story. He would appreciate our thoughts.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
From: Conjugate
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:27:56 -0700
"Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Absolutely nothing. Not one God-damned thing. And I didn't even snip word one of the story. (Or any of the other words, come to that, but never mind that right now.) It was an accident. It was not intentional. I inadvertently clicked on the "Send Now" button when I was trying to bring the window into the foreground.
My shame is great, and my dishonor a stain on my soul. I can only pray that I may someday be seen as worthy of offering my humble apology and making amends. Stern are the rules of netiquette, and terrible the penalties for violations thereof. Though I have attainted all that I might have otherwise accomplished, and though terrible and dark the deed I have performed, so that none of my line, nay, even unto the 7th generation, shall be wholly free of the taint thereof, I ...
Oh, to heck with it. I got started having 'way too much fun with this. Just goes to show you what the end of the semester does to us academic types. Anyways, my real message is in the post following the post to which this is a reply. I regret the waste of time and/or bandwidth. But not too much, obviously, or I wouldn't be babbling on like this.
Conjugate
hiding out until his students have all left town
From: Tesseract
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: 18 Dec 2002 05:26:55 -0800
"Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
"Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Absolutely nothing. Not one God-damned thing. And I didn't even snip word one of the story. (Or any of the other words, come to that, but never mind that right now.) It was an accident. It was not intentional. I inadvertently clicked on the "Send Now" button when I was trying to bring the window into the foreground.
My shame is great, and my dishonor a stain on my soul. I can only pray that I may someday be seen as worthy of offering my humble apology and making amends. Stern are the rules of netiquette, and terrible the penalties for violations thereof. Though I have attainted all that I might have otherwise accomplished, and though terrible and dark the deed I have performed, so that none of my line, nay, even unto the 7th generation, shall be wholly free of the taint thereof, I ...
Where's celia when we need punishment suggestions?
Tesseract
From: Sagittaria
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: Sun, 22 Dec 2002 08:23:27 -0000
"Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
My shame is great, and my dishonor a stain on my soul. I can only pray that I may someday be seen as worthy of offering my humble apology and making amends. Stern are the rules of netiquette, and terrible the penalties for violations thereof. Though I have attainted all that I might have otherwise accomplished, and though terrible and dark the deed I have performed, so that none of my line, nay, even unto the 7th generation, shall be wholly free of the taint thereof, I ...
Post of the week.
Oh, to heck with it. I got started having 'way too much fun with this. Just goes to show you what the end of the semester does to us academic types. Anyways, my real message is in the post following the post to which this is a reply. I regret the waste of time and/or bandwidth. But not too much, obviously, or I wouldn't be babbling on like this.
LOL.
- - >Sagittaria< - -
Are those your eyeballs? I found them in my cleavage.
From: Conjugate
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 20:10:41 -0700
"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
The following story is the first submission for one of our faithful participants to the FishTank. I think anyone that shows such loyalty deserves loyalty in return. This is a complete short story at 1,579 words. The author prefers to have no set up for the story. He would appreciate our thoughts.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
My two positive comments: Interesting, and thought-provoking. Like Katie, I was waiting for something more, but I did not really feel cheated by the ending. I was struck by the contrast between the completely neutral, unexpected act of apparent affection from a stranger (the saleswoman) and the rather mechanical response from her husband; perhaps a touch of irony.
The formatting, not entirely your fault perhaps, but I'd prefer no double-spaced lines and only a single space between words. No need to justify yourself or your stories, that's my motto.
There are, as I see it, (at least) two conflicts in this story; one is unresolved, between the viewpoint character and her spouse. He and she are going to have to have a long, long talk one of these days.
But the conflict between the heroine and herself is the one you dealt with, or at least got underway, and that must be resolved before the other can begin. So I don't fault you for leaving matters in a precarious balance between the young lady and her spouse. And I think it was pretty clear how her conflict with herself was going; she's bound to win. But I think you'll get some criticism from others about the way the situation between her and Paul (or whatever his name was) didn't get resolved.
I liked the story. Thanks for posting.
Conjugate
From: Meme Mispelt
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 11:49:55 -0500
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002, Desdmona wrote:
The following story is the first submission for one of our faithful participants to the FishTank. I think anyone that shows such loyalty deserves loyalty in return. This is a complete short story at 1,579 words. The author prefers to have no set up for the story. He would appreciate our thoughts.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
i've really just got one of each ...
positive:
um, it was really unsettling. which is maybe not what i expect from a sex story, but for something with so little character development, this has lodged itself unexepectedly deep in my head. the contrast between Danielle's not-quite sexual encounter and her husband losing his passion for her in extreme fetish material was startling and a more than a little disturbing.
improvement:
without knowing the rules of the land in advance, the scenario strained my credibility a bit. clothing is optional; fine. but a kiss on the private parts is neither an overt sexual invitation in itself, nor a cause for offense? Danielle doesn't think about the incident as if it's something that happens every day, but it's also not strange enough (apparently) to provoke an immediate reaction from her.
it's hard for me to imagine an analogous real-world situation in which the characters would behave that way.
other:
geez, this is code-bait, ain't it? FF? lesbian? nosex best scat ws?
<ducks>
- Meme Misspelt
- http://www.asstr.org/~meme_misspelt/
From: Mat Twassel
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: 17 Dec 2002 23:53:08 GMT
The Shoebox
By Bradley Stoke
[email protected]
Impressive! What I think really works is the way a pedal point leaps out at the end. " ... where it was expected she'd stay while Paul watched the rest of the match." Two steps forward, two steps back. What a funny dance the world does!
What this story needs mostly is just a bit of polishing. Already it reads good, but there are plenty of passages worth going over. In some cases my concern might more reflect my own style, but anyway:
and proud. Why should she want to hide them? Like so many
of her friends did these days. Well, she'd wait until her
breasts sagged or her stomach started jutting out until
she started wearing clothes all the time.<<
Fragments suggest thoughts, but this first fragment simply makes me stumble.
The second "until" isn't quite the right word. It's made more noticeable following so closely on the heels of the earlier "until."
She smiled at the shop assistant, who was holding
the shoebox that until a moment ago had contained the
shoes she was trying on. She was a young girl,<<
Another "until," but that's not my main concern. We're presented with an image of a shop assistant, and a moment later, a moment too late, we find out the assistant is a young girl. Move the "young girl" a bit forward.
And that crotch! So
much hair! More than on the shop girl's head, where the
hair was kept quite short.<<
"More" is the word that bothers me here. It suggests area; it suggests a pubic patch as big as Brazil.
"What do you think of the shoes?" asked the girl.
"I really like them. They go well with my hair.
Black." Danielle ran a long strand of hair through her
fingers and let it fall gracefully onto her bare
shoulder. <<
Actually this is really nice - the way Danielle's thoughts shift. But "Black" is a peculiar utterance. Maybe it's natural, but it bothered me when I was reading it first time, so I point it out.
Somehow, the rest of Danielle's shopping trip
vanished into a hazy swirl of forgetfulness. The shop
assistant made no reference to her kiss on Danielle's oh!
so private parts. She smiled in the same way as before,
no wickedness in her expression at all, nothing to
suggest a shared secret. The shoes she'd tried out were<<
Some problems with order and tense - probably best solved by simply dropping the first sentence. Otherwise, the simple past tense ("made" and "smiled") seems wrong.
I really don't like the effect of "oh! so." In part I'm not even sure what the effect is. Is Danielle being ironic? That would be better than the narrator being ironic. The tone seems wrong.
She took the card from the
assistant, who acknowledged her smile with no hint of
knowing the confusion in which her kiss had engulfed her
naked customer.<<
A little too awkward for my taste. Part of the problem might be too many pronouns, but I suspect it goes beyond that, and the sentence needs recasting.
Danielle had no recollection of the rest of her
shopping trip. She must have somehow bought some wine and<<
More evidence that the earlier lead-in sentence (" ... vanished into a hazy swirl of forgetfulness ...) needs to be dropped - and perhaps to replace this sentence.
containing the shoebox with her new shoes. All the way
though, she could feel the imprint of the shop
assistant's lips on her crotch. <<
"All the way though"? A typo? I was thinking "through," but that doesn't seem right either.
Danielle wasn't sure, but a tape
loop of that moment of unexpected tenderness had been
playing and replaying itself in her mind.<<
I don't understand the lead-in, and I'm not sure about "tape loop" although perhaps it fits with the porn films to come. Some clean-up definitely needed here.
The shop assistant was looming larger in her memory,
but not all the details. Was her hair light brown or a
dark blonde? Were her eyes green or blue? Did she wear
earrings? Why was Danielle bothered by such details?<<
Details, details. I don't like the way either fits. The first needs a bit of expansion, for instance: ... but Daniel found herself unable to remember all the details. I'd probably just drop the final sentence.
The sound of
the television broadcasting the soccer could be heard
from the garage when she was taking her bags out of the
car boot. Danielle made her way to the lounge, taking
with her just the bag with the shoebox in it. The other
bag she quickly dropped off in the kitchen.<<
The last sentence comes too late and/or is the wrong tense. Several ways to fix.
And the pictures on the
sleeve made sure that she understood perfectly well what<<
"Sleeves," I think.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 20:11:07 -0600
On Mon, 16 Dec 2002 09:07:14 -0500, "Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote:
This is an interesting story about relationships, and a whole lifestyle situation which is unfamiliar. Nudity as a fashion statement makes sense, though it does drop down its special erotic appeal as well. The story handles the whole unclothed lifestyle thing pretty well.
I did wonder about Danielle's lack of reaction to the kiss on her vulva. She noticed it of course, nor would it seem likely that the shop girl missed Danielle's distracted reaction. I don't know why Danielle acted the way she did in this. Either saying something, or recognizing her reaction as something important to follow up on would be natural. Going off in a daze feels strange.
While I could imagine that a nudist, sexually open sort of culture might consider a genital kiss as a normal sort of forward flirty fun, it isn't clear whether that is the case for Danielle. It would be nice to have her think about the thing, either compare it to other such kisses in the past, or make some comment about the lack of such in her life?
There is something nice about a girl kissing you without much warning. A bit of playful affection, and it really doesn't take all that much to come up to some stranger and kiss. Only problem really is the risk of a bad reaction after, which probably stops more casual senseless kissing attacks from happening.
Paul and his porn addition is a contrast to all the rest. We don't know why Danielle stays with him if he's turned away from her, nor why she hasn't asked him to explain things. The whole at-home setting is a sort of contrast to the alternative reality naked world outside. Their relationship seems very structured, not equal, she isn't in control nor does she seem happy in it. The ending leaves an opening for more, without an explanation of what might happen.
Others mentioned the formatting. It is hard to read as it is, sorry.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: PleaseCain
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: 19 Dec 2002 21:41:55 GMT
An interesting story, and sad. I like how you've created mood and atmosphere without bludgeoning us over the head. To me, her vanity suggests that she has everything down pat. Then, the young sales girl with her sweet kiss throws a spanner in the works (I'm international), and it unravels from there: her composure, her cold home, and her dissipated relationship. I got all that out of your story, which was much more interesting than my summary here.
The public nudism is a great device for heightening the reality onto your chosen focus, much like Gary's trap in "Tiny Bubbles." Well-written too, but that doesn't surprise me. I love the image of a nudist wearing his team colors during games!
By way of improvement, I would echo Katie and replace some summary and introspection with detailed occurrences. The opening in front of the mirror worked fine for me, because she's used to gazing in mirrors, isn't she? Where I really felt this instead was during her wandering through the mall following the kiss, and the drive home afterward. Perhaps even the conclusion, which is a thought, and not a demonstrable action. These sections aren't bad, but could maybe be improved.
Thanks for a fine contribution.
Cain
From: Christine Indigo
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: 19 Dec 2002 21:28:59 -0800
I hope I'm not too late for this.
"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
The following story is the first submission for one of our faithful participants to the FishTank. I think anyone that shows such loyalty deserves loyalty in return. This is a complete short story at 1,579 words. The author prefers to have no set up for the story. He would appreciate our thoughts.
FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
Everything that's been posted so far, and:
1: Two of the conventions of the stroke story are that a) People never have any problems with other people seeing them in the nude, and b) People, like bonbho monkeys, will have sex with anyone and everyone else at the drop of a hat. I liked the way this story played with those conventions.
2: The way Bradley wove the traditional shoes=pussy metaphor throughout the story. Very well done.
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
1: I agree with everyone else about the problems with double spacing. It's hard to read. (Double spacing is for printed documents that are going to be hand-proofread - the extra space gives room to write comments in.)
2: Can't think of another one, sorry.
3) Try not to repeat!
Oops.
Christine "Green Leafy Dragon" Indigo of the -=UDIC=-
From: Tesseract
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: 20 Dec 2002 03:37:16 -0800
"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
The following story is the first submission for one of our faithful participants to the FishTank. I think anyone that shows such loyalty deserves loyalty in return. This is a complete short story at 1,579 words. The author prefers to have no set up for the story. He would appreciate our thoughts.
*********************************************** The Shoebox By Bradley Stoke
[email protected]
I don't have much to say that others haven't already said so I'll just stick to an observation.
Most nude society stories are also a sexually free society. Danielle seems to approach it differently. She is not 'naked' but dressed in the latest fashion. I noticed how very aware she is of her looks, that she still has 'it'. And that other women's pubic hair, not as a sexual signal, but as a fashion faux pas.
She is not a sexual creature so she is quite thrown by the fleeting sexual advance of the shoe clerk. She can talk the talk, but not walk the walk.
This is again pointed out in the porno videos. The ones she enjoyed with Paul are conservative vanilla that the Republican moral minority would embrace in such a society. The ones that Paul watched were closer to what one would sexually expect of a nude society, a more liberal view, and she couldn't embrace that so she shut herself out of that part of his life.
But that kiss from the shop girl had just started her on a journey to the dark side.:-)
Did I get it about right?
BTW, its only justified if you use a fixed pitch font.
Tesseract
From: Desdmona
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: 21 Dec 2002 14:27:33 GMT
The Shoebox
By Bradley Stoke
[email protected]
The Shoebox
By Bradley Stoke
[email protected]
First, a word about the formatting: Bradley offered to reformat, or I could have done it myself, but I didn't think it was necessary. It may be the first time someone posted double-spaced, etc. Now I know better. But my apologies to Bradley, I'd prefer he have to deal with story issues rather than formatting issues.
Bradley~
You have a marvelous way of writing in a "foreign" setting that makes it all seem normal. This isn't the first story you've written where I was struck with this idea. You managed the same thing in "Extracurricular Love." I have limited experience with nudist communities, but it seems to me, as in every world, there are going to be people from all ends of the sexual spectrum. This is one of the ways you make the story's setting seem so natural - a common theme of all communities, if you will. The real clincher to this sort of normalcy idea is that people are all the same, with or without clothes. Relationships stagger, couples diverge, and people are surprised into inaction by the acts of strangers.
I think it's a misconception to believe that people who are exhibitionists are automatically into the darker areas of porn as someone before me hinted. I may consider myself free enough to show my body. It does not mean I want excrement liberally applied. Danielle shows a very real concern when she wonders what will come from her husband's proclivities. I don't get the impression that she wishes he would stop; only that she hopes it won't include her.
The real beauty of this piece is the irony of a woman so self absorbed with her appearance that she's missed the world around her completely. I think it's easy to associate nudism with freedom, and yet, Danielle isn't free of anything, except her clothes. The subtle irony is just extremely well done.
I have a couple of stumbling blocks. First, do thirty-something women think of twenty-something women as young girls? Maybe they would late teens, but it niggles at me that someone as self-absorbed as Danielle is that she'd call the clerk a young girl, because in a sense it's like calling herself an old/older woman. I think she'd be more likely to think of her as "just a few years younger than Danielle, herself, is.
Secondly, there are occasions where an idea is repeated. It seems like unnecessary repetition. For instance,
"Somehow, the rest of Danielle's shopping trip vanished into a hazy swirl of forgetfulness."
and
"Danielle had no recollection of the rest of her shopping trip."
Restating at the beginning of a new paragraph before expounding on the things that show/tell how the trip was affected isn't necessary. Especially in such a short story where we can remember what we'd just read.
Finally, I think you've done such a marvelous job in letting us see Danielle, and this part is especially wonderful:
"The shop assistant was looming larger in her memory, but not all the details. Was her hair light brown or a dark blonde? Were her eyes green or blue? Did she wear earrings?"
The first sentence is a bit awkward and yet, the idea is such great irony. Here we have a woman who is obsessed with looks and yet she can remember none of the things she might normally have zoomed in on. Obviously, she is affected.
Thank you so much, Bradley, for offering this story to the FishTank. It's been a real pleasure to read it.
Des
I never eat December snow!
-Lucy from Peanuts-
From: Bradley Stoke
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: 23 Dec 2002 13:04:49 -0800
Thank you all for your kind comments. It's very difficult to know what format to use in a reply. There have been quite a few approaches in the past. One is to address a posting to each person who kindly critiqued. Another is to reply very broadly to everyone. Another is to subdivide a single reply to individually address everyone. I shall do so by tackling the separate issues. And of course once again to thank everyone who so kindly critiqued.
1. The "Shoebox" Universe
Cain, Christine, Gary, Eli (the Bearded), Desdmona, Jeff Zephyr and Meme Misspelt complimented me on the universe in which I set the story. It's a wholly feasible universe not too dissimilar to our own. There is no rhyme or reason to this universe - it just is. It's not a mandatory nudist universe, its attitude towards pornography and gender status is pretty much identical to ours, and in fact principally exists just to enable the genitals of the main characters to be displayed. There wouldn't be much of a story otherwise.
2. Structure
Katie McN and Cain made several interesting suggestions as to how the story should proceed and what it should be about. However, I think the structure could unravel quite dangerously if I shifted the story emphasis any further away from the two principle events (or 'epiphanies').
Elijah, Cain, Christine and Conjugate pretty much got the measure of the story. This is to use the image of a shoebox to anchor a portrait that might be familiar to many readers of how one's sexual relationships and sexual self-image might change over time.
3. Style
Katie, Gary and Mat Twassel made comments and minor criticism about language and style. Although I don't agree with all the remarks, I shall certainly take account of some of them. There are one or two intrusive preposition repetitions that need inspection. And perhaps I should examine the use of the past perfect in conjunction with the past simple tense in the two passages Mat identified.
4. Meaning
Several reviewers, most particularly Desdmona, Christine, Tesseract, Katie and Cain speculated as to what the story might "mean". Although, like everyone, I have my own political and moral opinions (which don't necessarily accord with everyone else's), I believe that a story should stand on its own. A story might illustrate or suggest a personal view or a vision, but for it to have a life of its own it should allow for diverse interpretations. And I was pleased to see that there were differences in people's views. What this story (or any story) "means" in a literal sense I don't know, but what it shouldn't be is just a fictional expression of my (or anyone else's) views. Although didactic fiction has a place, that's not what I want my stories to be.
5. Formatting
I submitted the story to Desdmona in Word format. I realise now that I should have formatted it myself in correct text format before making my submission. My fault!
Thank you again for your comments. They were very welcome. I particularly enjoyed reading the comments by Christine, Desdmona and Cain, whose insights somehow went further than I thought anyone ever would on ASSD (the home of spam and the tedious story code thread).
Bradley Stoke
http://www.asstr.org/~Bradley_Stoke
From: Christine Indigo
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: 24 Dec 2002 21:33:20 -0800
[email protected] (Bradley Stoke) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
Thank you again for your comments. They were very welcome. I particularly enjoyed reading the comments by Christine, Desdmona and Cain, whose insights somehow went further than I thought anyone ever would on ASSD (the home of spam and the tedious story code thread).
You're welcome. I thought I was being dreadfully pretentious, myself.
Christine "Green Leafy Dragon" Indigo of the -=UDIC=-
From: Mat Twassel
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: 19 Dec 2002 15:45:43 GMT
Gary writes:
"What d'you buy, Danni? D'you get those shoes you wanted?"
1. The (non-standard?) contractions made me reread this paragraph several times. What dialect is this? (Not a criticism - an honest question.) If it isn't important, I would spell out "did" and lose the contractions.
Some writers seem to have a knack for non-standard contractions, and some don't. In a longer story or in a novel, the reader has a chance to get used to the usage. But I agree with Gary about the risk in something so short. Don't want to knock the reader out of the flow, even though the dialect helps define the character and the moment.
But I think it would be silly to spell it all out:
"What did you buy, Danni? Did you get those shoes you wanted?"
Equally silly, the substitution: "What jew buy, Danni? Jew get those shoes you wanted."
Another tactic is to eliminate words rather than contract them.
"Hey, Danni. You get those shoes you wanted?"
Further elimination enhances (or anyway changes) the effect.
"Danni. Get those shoes you wanted?"
Oh, the things a sex author's got to wrestle with.
Fucker?
Fuck'er?
Fuck her?
Jew fucker?
You fucker?
You fuck her?
D'you fuck her?
Did you fuck her?
Did you have sexual intercourse with her?
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
Note that all the comments archived here were culled from active discussions occuring in the Usenet newsgroup alt.sex.stories.d. If you want to contribute to the discussion, please join us in ASSD and say your piece. Everyone is welcome.
If you do not know how to read Usenet newsgroups, there is a nice, free web interface on Google: http://groups.google.com/. If you have any problems, send us email. If we're lucky, we'll get you set up and contributing in no time!
If you have not done so, please read the Comment Guidelines. We ask that all comments include two positive remarks and two suggestions for improvement. Please, try not to repeat!
From: Gary Jordan
Re: The Shoebox, by Bradley Stoke
Date: 16 Dec 2002 18:47:59 GMT
1. I positively enjoyed the entire "clothing optional" universe, with its "fashion statements" of how one wears one's hair (especially pubic hair) taking the place of garments.
2. I found myself nodding at what I took to be a healthy attitude in such a universe toward standard porn, as demonstrative of the healthy aspects of sex for the shear joy of it, as opposed to the more outre aspects (not that there's anything wrong with them, if they are your kink).
1. The (non-standard?) contractions made me reread this paragraph several times. What dialect is this? (Not a criticism - an honest question.) If it isn't important, I would spell out "did" and lose the contractions.
2. The T-shirts. In a world gone nudist, wouldn't he be more likely to wear body paint or a tatoo, or some less-concealing indicator of team affiliation?
FIRST!
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die; they just wallow in sunken tubs."
<I>"This communicating of a man's self to his friend works two contrary effects, for it redoubleth joys, and cutteth griefs in half." - Francis Bacon, Essays </I>