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From: PleaseCain
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: 05 Mar 2002 22:03:04 GMT
You definitely earn an A from me for your daring: for the decades-long scope of your story, for depicting the sexuality of the couple throughout that time (I am so tired of reading about 20-year-old Aryan catalog-models fucking), for tackling their aging and infirmity, and for your conclusion. That is chutzpah, lad.
Your initial description of Harold in his old age really works. The detail of the cotton fibers of his tee-shirt straining over his belly really sticks in my mind.
On the other hand, I did not like as much the description of her, found in the very next paragraph. Where the previous paragraph showed Harold, this paragraph tells us straight-out what her hands, legs and brain can't do. It is a pitfall of the kind of story you've envisioned - short vignettes jumping through time - that to quickly place the characters in our minds, you run the risk of planting statements like "Since when is a 47-year-old grandfather 'cute'?" and "it was the Depression." I suppose both of those could work, but to me they sound strained. In the latter instance, the Cagney gangster picture already places the setting in the 1930s, as would an additional comment about jobs and money being short, but still they got a nickel from their folks to go to the theater, something like that. Besides, such details invest us more in the story and the characters, than do summary statements by the author. Could be this is my own hang-up. Just sharing my perspective.
Also, in these two sentences:
Ever
since she first allowed him to touch her there, just a few weeks ago, he had
fallen more and more in love with her. And now, it seemed as if she was
willing to touch his organ, cementing their feelings for each other.
By your phrasing, you seem to link her allowing him to touch her with his falling more deeply in love, and her willingness to touch him with cementing their feelings. That is inexact writing, jarring to me when I read it. I didn't notice anything like this elsewhere, though.
This could easily be expanded to a novel or novella, so much to work with here. If you ever do, I hope you will submit more to the Fish Tank, because I would like to read it.
Cain
From: oosh
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:32:11 GMT
Niggles: "under the circumstances" - I prefer "in the circumstances". "Anymore" should be two words. The past tense of "spit" is "spat". "Enormity" is wrongly used. "Atop" also: it means "at the summit", and it shouldn't be used to mean "over, nor "on", as in "they lay ... atop the covers".
One sentence didn't work for me: "Now that he knew how sensitive they were, he figured that keeping her heated up through her boob was the best way to keep her from taking her hand away from him."
One particularly beautiful insight: that the childhood hostility between Harold and Mary Lou was in reality a courtship ritual. And I felt that Mary Lou's silent pleading, at the end of her days, was very persuasively described. For me, the time shifts were managed with great style and assurance; they flowed smoothly and effectively into one another, and the context of the story was ample justification for using this device.
It is an impressive achievement to be able to represent such a span of years, and such depth of feeling, within so short a compass, and without ever straying into sentimentality. But more than that: this story shows two very ordinary people transformed by their love into something that is not ordinary.
This is a noble story, one to be proud of.
O.
From: celia batau
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2002 11:17:35 -0800
hi Rev. Cotton Mather!
"Desdmona22" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat!
pozzie one: the first sentence is strong. it sets a place, the characters, the attitude.
pozzie two: we liked how the memories flowed into another. and also moved from past to present without a predictable order.
neggie one: the dislike. oosh said it was a coutship ritual, but having it in the first sentence suggests an important part in the story, but it's only followed up as filler in a wedding speach.
neggie two: little inconsistencies like what does being the youngest child in a family have to do with being in a difficult position with classmates? and "day room" suggests some kind of senior home, but the son said he would install bars in the bathroom which suggests private home. also dropping into the thoughts of one partner while in the other's dream/memories.
thanks for sharing it. :) yay Rev. Cotton Mather!
-cb
The Years Like Pearls on Velvet [1/2] By Rev. Cotton Mather
From: Selena Jardine
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:12:49 GMT
Desdmona22 wrote:
The following is a complete story that is 5,948 words in length. Because of the length of the story it will be posted in two parts. Same FishTank guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat!
This submission and comments are being stored at:
http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base
Questions or concerns may be directed to me at [email protected]
*******************************************************************
The Years Like Pearls on Velvet [1/2] By Rev. Cotton Mather
First of all, thanks, Rev, for letting us read this story. Interesting format, characters we learn to care about, and an ending that not many would attempt. It was well done and a pleasure to read.
Nice moments:
1) I really liked the mix of ages: children, teenagers, young adults, middle-aged people, and elderly people. It was a bold move, but I thought it worked well and gave us a feel for the way their lives evolved together. I liked the comfortable feeling of the relationship, both romantic and realistic.
2) I thought it worked better than I ever would have imagined, to have one memory roll into another. Sure, okay, it was a gimmick, but you carried it off beautifully. The story works overall.
Nitpicks:
1) I think it is unnecessary to have Mary Lou have been forced to be "unfaithful" while her husband was at war. That's his memory of war that we're in; I think you could safely take out the whole section of Mary Lou's blow job for her boss. Just say she never found out and never asked, and leave it at that.
2) This may be stepping over the line of what the FT is intended to do, but if I were you, I wouldn't have Harold smother her at the end. Instead, have him shake too many of her sleeping pills (or pain pills) into his hand. Pills like pearls. An "accidental" overdose on the part of two forgetful old people would be just as easy to explain as suffocation, and more tender: "Time for your pill, Mary Lou. Come on, sweetie, you'll feel better when you've taken it." And she knows she will.
One additional thing that goes along with that scene: love, relief, thanks, and forgiveness is a lot to read on one face. You might want to cut it back somehow there, or explain how he can read so much - when she's had a stroke, too.
Well done!
Selena
[email protected]
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:37:14 -0600
On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 20:12:49 GMT, Selena Jardine <[email protected]> wrote:
1) I really liked the mix of ages: children, teenagers, young adults, middle-aged people, and elderly people. It was a bold move, but I thought it worked well and gave us a feel for the way their lives evolved together. I liked the comfortable feeling of the relationship, both romantic and realistic.
2) I thought it worked better than I ever would have imagined, to have one memory roll into another. Sure, okay, it was a gimmick, but you carried it off beautifully. The story works overall.
Nitpicks:
1) I think it is unnecessary to have Mary Lou have been forced to be "unfaithful" while her husband was at war. That's his memory of war that we're in; I think you could safely take out the whole section of Mary Lou's blow job for her boss. Just say she never found out and never asked, and leave it at that.
His memories might include hers, once he learns of it. Some things are worth telling, even if kept secret for a long while. And maybe, after enough time had passed, her embarrassment and fear of the situation would turn to anger, better shared that kept in.
Memories are of good and bad things, and how they affect things in the relationship are shown in this tale.
The only thing that I might add there is a bit of explanation, something to let on that they do know the other's memories, having learned them over time, and the "indiscretions" were forgiven.
2) This may be stepping over the line of what the FT is intended to do, but if I were you, I wouldn't have Harold smother her at the end. Instead, have him shake too many of her sleeping pills (or pain pills) into his hand. Pills like pearls. An "accidental" overdose on the part of two forgetful old people would be just as easy to explain as suffocation, and more tender: "Time for your pill, Mary Lou. Come on, sweetie, you'll feel better when you've taken it." And she knows she will.
I think that this makes more sense, too. Assuming the medicine is there, it also offers Harry his own solution if he feels it is needed.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: 7 Mar 2002 00:54:39 -0800
"celia batau" <[email protected]> wrote:
neggie two: little inconsistencies like what does being the youngest child in a family have to do with being in a difficult position with classmates?
That made perfect sense to me. She wasn't in a difficult position because she was the youngest child in a family; rather, she recognized that the teacher's solicitude would antagonize her classmates because of her experience with analogous situations involving parental solicitude and hostile older siblings. Later, Jacques
From: celia batau
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 18:01:16 -0800
hi Jacques!
thanks. :)
-cb
celia batau's story site: http://www.myplanet.net/pinataheart/stories.htm.
So it is in
my silence
that I have become
who I am,
and no one even
has an idea
of this monster
hidden behind
the blade.
-Megan
"Jacques LeBlanc" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
"celia batau" <[email protected]> wrote:
neggie two: little inconsistencies like what does being the youngest child in a family have to do with being in a difficult position with classmates?
That made perfect sense to me. She wasn't in a difficult position because she was the youngest child in a family; rather, she recognized that the teacher's solicitude would antagonize her classmates because of her experience with analogous situations involving parental solicitude and hostile older siblings. Later, Jacques
From: Desdmona
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: 07 Mar 2002 15:07:15 GMT
The Years Like Pearls on Velvet
By Rev. Cotton Mather
Rev~
This is a wonderfully touching story. I especially liked the format of memories within memories. If you had tried to come back to the present between each memory, it could have very easily become tedious. Memory within memory was a smart and effective move.
I think the POV switch has already been mentioned, but I wanted to reiterate it. Plus I think in this paragraph, "The girls both thought Harold was the cuter of the two, but Loretta knew that Mary Lou really had a huge crush on him, and, since she was her very best friend, Loretta was going to let Mary Lou sit next to him at the movie." You actually slip into Loretta's POV. It's easily fixed by leaving out "Loretta knew."
You use some superb descriptive phrases. I think my favorite is "He was almost completely bald, with just a fringe of steel gray hair horseshoeing around his head." That's such a perfect description of that hairstyle. Yummy!
A couple of medical niggles for me (sorry, can't fight years of training.) First, "her eyes bright and shining ..." Anyone whose brain is "muddled and confused" and on painkillers would not likely have bright and shining eyes. The eyes would probably be dull, cloudy, or hazy. Secondly, "He was breathing hard now, but at least his heart rate was slowing down." Our heart rates rarely slow down until the hard breathing has slowed. I think your intent is the "pounding" of the heart rather than it's actual rate. So you could say, "He was breathing hard now, but at least his heart was no longer pounding." Or something like that.
I'm not sure I agree with Gary about the ending. I have no problem understanding why Harold makes the decision he makes. I do agree with Selena who suggests another way, for a couple of reasons. First, Harold doesn't have any strength left, not even enough to take a shower, and he's just hurt his back so severely he's crawled up into a fetal position. Where would the strength to actually smother someone come from? And let's say he does have a rush of adrenalin to do the deed, isn't it just plain inhumane? He's loved this woman for over 80 years. Hasn't she suffered enough pain? Why would he want to end things in a way that would cause more pain? Smothering is not painless.
Secondly, wouldn't Harold want to end his own life along with hers? She's the love of his life, his reason for living. I think he'd want to die along with her. The pain in is back acts as the catalyst that punctuates his frailty. It's time for both of them, isn't it? Just a thought.
And by the way, "Pills like pearls" from Selena ... Is that great or what? I loved the title but missed having anything about pearls in the story itself. Pills like pearls may be the answer.
It's just a wonderful story that, with a little cleanup, would be a great story to tug at the heartstrings of even the most callous of readers.
Thanks Rev for offering it to the FishTank.
Des
From: Rev. Cotton Mather
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 15:01:19 GMT
To all and sundry:
Thank you for the comments, both productive and praise, on this effort of mine. If I may take a moment to sermonize:
I liked Selena's suggestion of using medication at the end of the story. Pills like pearls struck me, at first, as an interesting visual metaphor, but on further reflection I'm not sure if I will use it. I appreciate the suggestion, however.
The POV opinions are worthy of their own thread, and I will address this shortly.
I also like the WWII frames of the story, and will probably leave those scenes intact. My intent there was to show that even those who stayed home to carry on had their own little battles to fight. Nearly every relationship has a skeleton in the closet somewhere, and these might have been Harold and Mary Lou's.
Thanks to Desdemona and others who suggested some improvements in my desciptions of their conditions under meds and infirmity. Some revisions based on your suggestions will be made.
The full title of the story is "The Years Like Pearls on Velvet". I have always thought that a simple, elegant string of pearls, even one 50 years old or more, casts a luster that is unparalleled and timeless. Precious stones such as emeralds and diamonds are flashy and brilliant, but styles of settings come and go, making the stones themselves seem outdated at times. For every life lived like a diamond, there are hundreds of thousands of lives lived like pearls, worth celebrating and treasuring, even in their obscurity. Harold and Mary Lou were just two more of life's pearls, anonymous beyond a small circle, but precious nonetheless.
The names of the characters are derived from people of a similar age that I have known. I really wanted to use names such as Austin and Jenna as a kind of culture shock: the names are popular children's names at the moment, but 60 years from now they will have become "old people's" names. (Sean and Kayla?? ...inside joke. Anybody read "Playing the Game"?)
Anyway, thanks again to those who participated in this exercise.
RCM
Reverend Cotton Mather
Senior Pastor,
Church of the Erotic Redemption
http://www.asstr.org/~ReverendCottonMather
http://www.storiesonline.net
*Something clever is supposed to go here, I think*
From: Always Horny
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 16:25:54 +0100
Desdmona22 wrote:
The following is a complete story that is 5,948 words in length. Because of the length of the story it will be posted in two parts. Same FishTank guidelines apply:
Des,
I wish you would give us at least a little bit of warning when you post stories
that dark. Ouch!
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:16:54 -0600
One thing: It is hard not to repeat some of the positives. The pearls of memories presentation is very well done, and lets us see most of their lives, nice little images.
Because of that - which made it harder to come up with good new comments - I'll pretty much leave it like that. The story style was very nice, and while I think that the ending needs a gentler method (and maybe an implication that Harry will join her), I didn't find the solution given impossible or wrong.
Sad endings can be part of life, but it makes it harder to find the story happy - even though the memories certainly are. I liked the story. I just wished for a bit different result (but what end can we hope for?)
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:12:44 -0600
On Wed, 06 Mar 2002 14:32:11 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
Niggles: "under the circumstances" - I prefer "in the circumstances". "Anymore" should be two words. The past tense of "spit" is "spat". "Enormity" is wrongly used. "Atop" also: it means "at the summit", and it shouldn't be used to mean "over, nor "on", as in "they lay ... atop the covers".
I'm glad I don't try to play editor ... some niggles are dialectal. "Under the circumstances" is certainly idiomatically correct for USA'n. Anymore is one word if it represents time and can be replaced with "from now on." Spitted is valid for the verb which means to skewer, though spat might be valid for that too - English is wierd that way.
Enormity, yeah, maybe ... in USA'n it might mean great importance or impact, not just outrageous - maybe a bit of slip-over in meaning from enourmous, and "enormousness" just doesn't roll off the tongue or something like that.
Atop is one of those where it may make sense to use it, rather than "on top of," even though the placement might not quite fit. On a bed, the entire flat surface is the top, or peak. It can't help not having higher or lower spots.
I'm not trying to complain about niggles. It is just that some of them seem normal and correct to me, at least in USA'n American English. Whereas I find some British English structures odd, but still comprehensible. They sound wrong, but an editor really shouldn't try to change them unless the story is being translated from one to the other.
This is a noble story, one to be proud of.
It is!
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Bradley Stoke
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: 19 Mar 2002 04:58:50 -0800
Rev. Cotton Mather
Too often erotic stories concentrate far too much on that brief window of opportunity between 15 and 25 where most people's freedom in love and sex is concentrated, ignoring the many other years where love and sex is no less important. Here is a story which tries to encompass all the years of relationships from the selfish, unfocussed ones of early childhood to the quiet resignation and deep affection of old age.
The structure of the story is a major plus. The vignettes wrap inside each other and flow from one to another in an adventurous and natural way. Sometimes so natural that you barely notice the join.
The vignettes themselves are well-chosen, capturing moments of ordinary life and the central relationship between Harold and Mary Lou which would perhaps loom large in these final days.
It is not an easy task to find anything to criticise the story. I wasn't sure whether the end of the story actually marked the end of Harold's life. It makes narrative sense that it does, but there is still a question mark in my mind. I hope when I die, it'll be with as much contentment.
Another negative criticism, but perhaps more a nitpick, is the scene in Europe in a trench in 1943. There wasn't a great deal of trench warfare that the Americans got involved in, as far as I know. Except in Italy. And I think that might have been later. But I'm not a military historian, so I don't mind being corrected.
A wonderful story, that manages to be erotic over many generations and doesn't spare the reader from the less than perfect physical nature of the couple.
Bradley Stoke
From: Frank McCoy
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 02:23:36 -0600
[email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote:
1) 2 positive comments
What can I say? I liked it.
2) 2 things to improve
Uh ... Didn't look closely enough to find anything to dislike except: Where's the rest of the story?
3) Try not to repeat!
/ ' / ™
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From: Gary Jordan
Re: The Years Like Pearls on Velvet, by Rev. Cotton Mather
Date: 05 Mar 2002 17:07:18 GMT
Okay, Rev, Des, I'll take the first shot.
Things I liked (and I'm positive about this):
I liked the flashbacks, the memories of a kindlier, gentler time. People still did the same things we do today, they were just more circumspect (and possibly more guilt-ridden) about them.
I liked the portrayal of the vississitudes of old age, the struggling with bureaucracy and apathy (where are their kids, their grandkids?), with the infirmity. I don't mean I like those conditions - I just see some accuracy, however abysmal such conditions are.
My negatives:
I won't take potshots at the typos I found, either of them, because I confess to having helped to proof the story (twice) and missed them both times.
I have a problem with his POV showing up in her flashback, on the cruiseship. It's her memory, it should be entirely her POV. That one stands out, I can't recall without re-reading if it happened other times, but I suspect it did and I overlooked it.
I still have a problem with the ending (which RCM and I have discussed in email). There just doesn't seem to be enough buildup that would lead a reader to understand why he would act as he did (am I being circuitous enough to avoid revealing it?). I wouldn't want there to be a lot of foreshadowing - it would spoil it. But something more than what I read, some justification that I think is missing.
But maybe that's just me. It has been observed elsewhere that we all bring our own predjudices and preferences to every story we read; mine may be interfering.
Overall, a very moving story. Thanks Rev.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die. It's not within their scope." http://www.asstr.org/~gary/ http://www.asstr.org/~gary/Clitorides/
http://www.asstr.org/~gary/ShonRichards/ http://www.asstr.org/spotlight.html http://www.storiesonline.net/