Fish Tank Story Comments - Jake's Fish Tank

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From: cmsix
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:14:56 GMT

I liked this. I guess that isn't enough to call a positive but I wanted to say it anyway.

The whole nofish fishtank thing had me wondering what in the hell he wanted with an aquarium in a bar like he was describing. I could just see long neck bottles and cigarette butts tossed in it at will. Imagine my surprise when I found out what it was going to be used for. This kicks the wet T-shirt contest right in the balls.

I also liked his dilemma with his new crowd. They weren't his type of people and he didn't want them there. On the other hand they brought cash and he didn't mind that. It reminded me of the thread that's going now discussing whether writing for money and to someone else's specifications is actually prostituting yourself or not.

Then there are the suggestions.

Twenty years of riding Hawgs, traveling from town to town and doing

whatever shit work

was available: green chain offbearer, tugboat hand, taxi driver, dishwasher, odd-job man and anything else that needed more brawn than brain and paid enough to keep me in food and beer and cheap rooms until I had saved up enough to move to the next town and the next dead-end job.

The period is your friend. Use it. I don't think that the colons and semicolons that you use so liberally are really helping the flow of the story. I know they aren't' for me. I just can't see the advantage for the length of the above sentence. I normally string thing together in a similar fashion and then come back and rearrange once I have the thought down so I won't lose it. It didn't really make it a chore to read but it did make me have to go back and figure it out with two or three rereads.

I also thought that the insurance bonanza just didn't fit at all with the type of character you had constructed. Maybe he could have been hit by a drunk driver or something to make it easier to swallow. I just can't picture a vagabond biker keeping his insurance paid up, and I know that the deer didn't have liability.

Thanks for the story. I really did like it, even if Desdemona did get her way in the end.

cmsix

From: Hamadryad73
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: 05 Aug 2002 16:35:40 GMT

would someone be sweet enough to forward me the story since i have one seriously crappy newgroup reader and can never get the stories?

DANKE!
Dryad

From: Iconoclast
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:52:08 GMT

[email protected] (Hamadryad73) wrote on Mon 05 Aug 2002 09:35:40a

would someone be sweet enough to forward me the story since i have one seriously crappy newgroup reader and can never get the stories?

DANKE!
Dryad

It is done.

Bitte Schoen!

Iconoclast

From: oosh
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 12:21:38 +0000 (UTC)

"cmsix" <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

I liked this. I guess that isn't enough to call a positive but I wanted to say it anyway.

I liked and enjoyed it too.

The period is your friend. Use it. I don't think that the colons and semicolons that you use so liberally are really helping the flow of the story.

I found it well enough written that I didn't notice the punctuation at any time.

From: cmsix
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 14:43:20 GMT

"oosh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...

I found it well enough written that I didn't notice the punctuation at any time.

Mostly I did too. I'm new here and so I must have read the suggestions for "Fish Tank" participation incorrectly. I thought we were supposed to give two positive comments and two suggestions for improvement and reserve other comments until after Friday midnight.

I thought a paragraph with two five word sentances and a sixty-six word sentance could have been done a little better. How stupid of me.

cmsix

From: Hamadryad73
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: 06 Aug 2002 23:39:50 GMT

Icon,
Whee, what a fun ride:)!
I'll start with the boring stuff first:

"He kept protesting and she kept pointing at the signs, and he finally took his the rest of his clothes off. " Only need one his ...which one?

"We stayed that way for ages, feeling each other with our ands" hands

I also agreed with someone who mentioned the insurance on the bike ...it was a bit thin.

I really liked the flow. It seemed more like a conversation, answers to unheard questions. His character was really wonderful. very earthy; could really see him. I wonder if you couldn't explore just a bit more his feelings on his missing leg? maybe he tends to stay behind the bar? it seems matter-of-fact the way it is, but since its such a crucial point, it might not hurt ot emphasize it a bit?

(I think that was 2 and 2!)

Dryad

From: Tesseract
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: 6 Aug 2002 23:35:11 -0700

"cmsix" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...

"oosh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]..

I thought we were supposed to give

two positive comments and two suggestions for improvement and reserve other comments until after Friday midnight.

You misunderstand. The Friday rule is for the authors. As punishment for daring to invade the fish tank we demand that they shut up until the end of the week.

The 2 and 2 rule is just a suggestion, considering how often it is broken. Following it provides a balance to the comments and the first person in doesn't get to hog all the good comments.

Tesseract

From: cmsix
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 12:41:45 GMT

Thank you for that clarification.

cmsix

"Tesseract" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...

"cmsix" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ... "oosh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]..

I thought we were supposed to give
two positive comments and two suggestions for improvement and reserve other comments until after Friday midnight.

You misunderstand. The Friday rule is for the authors. As punishment for daring to invade the fish tank we demand that they shut up until the end of the week.

The 2 and 2 rule is just a suggestion, considering how often it is broken. Following it provides a balance to the comments and the first person in doesn't get to hog all the good comments.

Tesseract

From: Bradley Stoke
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: 6 Aug 2002 00:31:03 -0700

Iconoclast

Although I write quite long stories myself, I share the general reluctance recently mentioned by Katie of reading longer ones myself. Life's too short. So I was only half-inclined to read your contribution. But I was glad that I did.

It was a nice story, well paced, amusing and evocative. And what was best is that it kept my interest to the end. So, well done!

My first positive comment is, I guess, the voice of the narrator. Normally, I don't really like first person narrative in sex fiction, particularly from a man. Too often it is just the literate voice of masturbation. But here it was a real believable character, not a type of character I ever meet very often but believable still. This milieu of bikers and hard horny chicks may be real (although I suspect it's no more real than many other male fantasies), but it was an enjoyable one to read about, and Jake sounded right in his element.

My second positive comment is the pace of the story. In five and a half thousand words, it can so often get bogged down, but this worked pretty well. It used the old trick (familiar in pornographic movies) of starting slow and then piling on more and more ludicrous and erotic scenarios. And why not? It's worked for the makers and distributors of sex videos, why not for sex fiction?

Having said that, the end was a bit of a disappointment. A bit like sex or masturbation itself. You get to the end, and then you think "So what?" Desdmona marries Jake and everything ends happy ever after. I think a twist of some kind would have been better. Or just resisting the temptation to tidy up the end, and leave the reader in a post-priapic high.

And a second suggestion for improvement? It's difficult to know. I suppose my main criticism would be the ease with which Desdmona and Jake get together. My credibility is being sorely tested recently with all these middle-aged men finding it so easy to get their end away with young women. Perhaps someone out there can explain this phenomenon. It's difficult enough for me to see what women see in men anyway, but flabby waists, missing legs and a bad attitude? Perhaps I should try it out some time.

A very enjoyable story for the Fish Tank Anniversary. Possibly my favourite so far, even though it's totally not the sort of story I normally enjoy.

Bradley Stoke

http://www.asstr.org/~Bradley_Stoke

From: Tesseract
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: 6 Aug 2002 23:26:09 -0700

"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...

It was bound to happen. Tucked away in the middle of a bunch of correspondence about the FishTank was a story that should have been posted weeks ago. Iconoclast sent me his FishTank anniversary story and I misplaced it. Well, that's not true, I didn't misplace it. It was right where it should be. I just missed it. Anyway, my sincere apologies to Iconoclast for this oversight and I'm happy to say his story is 1 of 2 stories in the tank today.

Iconoclast says, "It is 5,504 words long, a little longer than I would like, but I just couldn't pare it down any more. I must say that I would never have written this story without Ray having jumpstarted me with the idea, and I never considered submitting a story to the FishTank. I am considering writing further episodes using the characters in this story, and would love to have feedback before I do this."

FishTank guidelines apply:

1) 2 positive suggestions
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat!

The comments to FishTank entries take place right here on ASSD. But you can find the stories and the comments stored at:

http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base

Questions? Suggestions? Submissions? Direct them to: [email protected] or [email protected].

***************************************** Jake's Fish Tank (MF, MF, exhib, voy, rom) by Iconoclast [email protected]

I don't have much to add. The specifics of what I like have already been covers, as have the things that need improvement.

You write well. Who would have thought that bikers could write at all? You give a sympathetic look at a slice of biker life. Your style is easy to read and light, building a believable scene (unlike some of your pig headed posts:))

Like most stories in the Fish Tank, yours could use more sex.

Tesseract - I must have frequented the wrong bars. The best I saw was only strippers.

From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: Wed, 07 Aug 2002 20:00:41 -0600

On Mon, 5 Aug 2002 08:35:35 -0400, "Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote:

One first comment, kind of neutral: I doubt that local LE would let the place be run the way Jake was doing it. Other locations might be more inclined perhaps to look the other way, but you never know when somebody is going to get a bug up their butt about such carrying-ons in their community.

I don't think that affects the story, because I do believe there are places where you'd be free to run your business how you like. Besides, cops ride bikes too, maybe they'd be welcome there? ;-)

I like Jake. Not sure, though, why when he got a bit of money he didn't get a bike fixed up so he could ride (or his leg fixed up, or some combination thereof). But that doesn't apply to the tale, because it is obvious he just got busy in his new lifestyle and seemed content to let it go on. His fishtank solution was very clever. Reminds me a bit of the fishtank scene in "Shrimp on the Barbie" (a real giant fishtank in an upscale bar, but two patrons used it for other activities, forgetting that the glass is tranparent both ways).

I like the beautiful Desdmona in the tale. She's smarter than Jake, because she figured out that he needed some encouragement to jump back into the pool, so to speak. I mean, running a place where girls get naked all the time (and guys too, alone, from time to time I'm sure, though the story didn't mention it?), and having fun with that, but not taking anyone up on interesting romantic offers? Or even just to have sex?

I mean, it is a biker bar, and you can make offers like that straight up there. Well, you can do that at any place I suppose, just that the odds of it being taken well (if not answered positively) are a little better than many places. Especially if the one offering is already naked. Tipping the bartenders in that state might incorporate something other than just money, so how about something for the poor owner? ;-)

Desdmona isn't run off by his situation. I honestly think that it wouldn't drive away all that many women, not the condition itself. The "I don't want to, thank you" routine probably works, though. I'd like to think that if I feel off my horse like that, it wouldn't take me three years - but you never know until it happens.

I liked the romance, the casual flirting over time. A bit more of that could be nice. As might be a bit more followup to the sex. I don't know how much you want to stick in there, but while a relationship certainly can be tripped over by a nice first sexual encounter, it seems to me that there is a bit of followup before it turns into something more.

Even a morning after scene might be enough to set off the situation. It isn't so much that they have sex, or like each other, but a lot of relationships don't make it a year - or even to moving in. A good beginning is nice, and the sex was hot enough. But maybe just a little bit more romance?

Jeff

Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/

There is nothing more important than petting the cat.

From: john
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: 7 Aug 2002 22:16:00 -0700

Des and Icon,

The praise and the improvements are jumbled in my mind. I hope this makes some sense.

First person singular can be like chocolate: addictive, sensual, never enough. I hopped on and loved the ride. Very much, in fact. The author's conversational style had a way of lulling me into accepting silly things like bikers with insurance and intercourse inside of old aquaria. So what? Sounds good to me. Perhaps I'd even buy a bike. Conversation allows for repetition and the "stupid" paragraph was just a bit of nut to make things interesting. At other times however, too many for my taste, the engine coughed. The "pluses" for example didn't seem to be a literary device, just careless driving. Neither did the "rambling" or the "bad part of town." Jake is smart enough to use "roseate" without a trip to Webster's. He could tune things up a bit and make it run a little smoother. Redundancy is also commonly accepted in our speech (and Jake is common enough to use the term "spank the monkey.") But when he takes the time to "think and tally up," he's repeating the same thing again redundantly. I think. He often does it all the time.

The plot is interesting. It begins with Jake alone and broke and injured. And just like in the Divine Comedy , Jake gets the girl, the cash and absolution for his long lost limb. The RUB's (doesn't every good wedding need a grumpy father-of-the-bride) have become hawgafied and the Capulets and Montagues, it seems, bury their hatchets when instead of offing themselves, Romeo and Julliet co-join. Great stuff. My kinda tale. But. Isn't all that a bit much for just 5000 words? With three main problems ( sex, wealth and self-concept), none get dealt with adequately. If Desdmona had entered in Act I, the sex would have been exquisite. If the money had come a little harder, it would have been more interesting. If Jake had been more miserable about the leg, it would have mattered more at the final curtain. And if the PCB (Poor country bikers) and the RUB and duked it out a bit, or if any one of the three main problems concerned them much, it would have made more sense for them to be there. What was so good about it, its archetypal excess, it seemed to me, was its undoing.

Go figue, what that means.

Take care.
John

From: PleaseCain
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: 08 Aug 2002 22:53:19 GMT

You seem a natural storyteller, with the personable, self-effacing ordinary-joe voice that feels comfortable right there in the opening paragraph, and the flowing storyline that unfolds at a nice pace: even the public nudity aspect is perfectly believable. Also, I like the subject matter about his amputated leg, which sure is avant-garde to me - the love scene at the end is positively touching.

There is not much very wrong here. Some of the phrasing is awkward (the sentence about her helping him out of the tank; "one (1)" is a little too cute; the sentence "And once I had reconciled myself ..."). The narrative is handled nicely and never feels too distant or lecturing, but perhaps a couple scenes could be written more immediate for a greater effect. Similarly, it would be good to know more about her and why she was attracted to him in the first place.

I enjoyed this story a whole lot, thank you!

Cain

From: Mat Twassel
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: 09 Aug 2002 11:43:36 GMT

I really liked the beginning of this story. The telling is smooth and easy and interesting. Overall the plotting is fine, but to echo Cain's suggestion: it doesn't get immediate enough often enough. I expected that when Jake got the call from the reporter, we'd get some of her questions, we'd see some spark, that she'd become the love interest. And in fact I think that wouldn't be a bad idea. After that phone intereview she can dip into the background again, only to resurface later. I guess I'm echoing another of Cain's suggestions: we need to see more of Desdmona the person and less of Desdmona the body.

Generally the narrator's attitude comes through very well, but there are some credibility issues none the less: I think the story, especially at the beginning, could use more details about biking and about having one leg. Maybe just a few if you pick the right ones. I'm not sure I really believe this guy is a biker, and I'm not sure I really believe he has one leg.

Oh, a sure sign that you're a good story-teller: the sex was the least interesting part "Jake's Fish Tank."

- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com

From: Desdmona
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 09:18:30 -0400

Jake's Fish Tank (MF, MF, exhib, voy, rom) by Iconoclast [email protected]

Iconoclast~

An interesting story and a great idea for a real business. I think I remember an aquarium in "Where the Boys Are." I remember the riddler with thick black glasses making fish lips.

I guess my question is maintaining it. Imagine the water bill if you're filling it up everyday by tap. Imagine the water if you don't replace it, or treat it. Add a little bodily fluids to it on occasion and things really start to get messy, and smelly. So suggestion #1 is to allude to this in someway. Jake realizes he has to maintain it like a pool or he'll go broke filling it up or keeping it clean.

My other suggestion has to do with the amputated leg and a biker. It just so happens that I nursed a guy just like this. He was a member of the Outlaws. He was a huge man - over 6'5 and more than 400 lbs. You couldn't wake him up without getting slugged. (That's how he always awoke.) He was on a restricted diet but ordered pizza's and kept his dressing table stashed with junk food. And his pals snuck his pet Boa (yes, that's right, the big snake) into his room. He was a character to say the least. I told you a little bit about him, because when it came to the bikers - they were proud of their injuries. No shame, no hiding, it was look at this one, yanking up shirts and pulling down pants without embarrassment. And they could tell you every detail about where on the road the wreck took place, what city/town, and especially what it did to the bike.

But the really cool thing about him was he was a teddy bear underneath it all. And that is what I see Jake as. This rough and tough guy, but underneath it all the man who tenderly ends up in his own tank. Ugh! did I ever get to my suggestion? Okay, my suggestion would be to have Jake interact with another biker dude or two, show their pride in bike injuries. And then show his reluctance to have Desdemona see his amputated leg. I also like the suggestion that someone (sorry, I can't remember who) had about a little mixing of the yuppies and the bikers. A little fisticuffs is always a great way to start telling tall tales.

I'm not sure what you have in mind for continuing with these characters, but I like the idea. Especially, Jake and the bar. There are all sorts of possibilities. Sort of a "Coyote Ugly" for erotica.

Thanks bunches Iconoclast. You were generous in writing for the anniversary and in waiting out the time for it to be posted. You've given us another creative use for FishTanks and a very interesting story to go along with it. Brav_ (insert vowel of your choice here)

Des

From: Iconoclast
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 2002 19:04:16 GMT

I gratefully thank everyone for reading the story and commenting on it. I really appreciate the effort that went into the comments, and they have helped me to catch some errors and problem areas that I didn't see before. This post will comment on some of the major areas that a number of people have ponted out.

First, a big mea culpa for the things that I didn't put in the story. There were a whole bunch of comments related to areas which didn't receive enough explanation or coverage. cmsix and Dryad commented about the insurance windfall. Bradley Stoke was somewhat perturbed by the abrupt ending, which just seemed to spring up on the reader. PleaseCain, Jeff Zephyr and Mat Twassel stated a desire to find out more about Desdmona and her background. And Desdmona (the real one) wanted to see more interaction at the bar between the groups of bikers and more about the Jake's feelings about the missing leg. Entirely my fault.

I deliberately tried to keep the story down to a semi-manageable Fish Tank length, cutting and slashing as much as I could to keep it within spitting distance of 5,000 words. Some of the areas mentioned did have more detail in my first draft, but I ruthlessly excised them in order to try to hit a target length. That was obviously a big mistake. I underestimated the readers'tolerance for length, and at this point in my writing I don't have the economy of language required to juggle mood and description and storytelling into a concise format.

johndear summed it up best when he said:

Isn't all that a bit much for just 5000 words? With three main problems (sex, wealth and self-concept), none get dealt with adequately.

I plead guilty as charged, and will expand the story to cover the deficiencies. I will, however, try to avoid overwriting.

Maybe some background will help. I've been riding bikes since I was 17, with a long dry period for the usual family responsibility things. My current bike is a Harley Springer Softail that I've ridden over 50,000 miles, so I've done a lot of riding over the years. This is a part of my life that I love, but I'm not a hardcore 24/7 biker.

I overestimated how people would see some of the happenings in this story. The insurance issue was a complete surprise to me. Partly my fault - I didn't explain that I meant only insurance for the wrecked bike, not a big settlement for pain, suffering and loss of enjoyment of life. In the jurisdiction where I live all bikes on the road have to be insured for third-party liability. This is a big whack, and almost all the bikers I know then add extra insurance to cover comprensive and collision damage. The numbers are compelling. Drop your bike or have it stolen and you have a potential loss of $10,000 to $20,000. Harleys retain their value, and my bike, for instance is worth as much now as when I originally bought it. Bikers aren't stupid, and can't afford such a large loss, hence most of them buy collision insurance. Even a small collision can mean a large loss. If my bike had to have its front forks replaced the factory cost of the replacement is over $3,500, uninstalled.

I overestimated how many people would comment on the age difference between Desdmona and Jake after I read Bradley Stoke's comment:

My credibility is being sorely tested recently with all these middle-aged men finding it so easy to get their end away with young women. Perhaps someone out there can explain this phenomenon.

I agree completely. There was no reason why Desdmona had to be much younger than Jake, except that it made his initial desire more understandable. I had him pegged as being in his mid-forties and Desdmona in her late twenties, so the age difference was not more than a lot of couples. Since I didn't give either of their ages I can plead that I really meant for her to be about 35 and him 40, making no big difference. But that would be a lie, and wouldn't be right (Iconoclast said, glancing at the tape recorder).

Power and wealth have always attracted women. Look at Henry Kissinger or any number of older executives who marry younger women. In the same way some women are attracted to physical or sexual power in men. In the biker community there are a disproportionate number of alpha males. I took a lady friend to a biker gathering once and when she got into the hall she remarked that she was almost blown away by the testosterone level. I can't explain the phenomenon, but it exists.

Desdmona had some intersting comments about bikers showing off their wounds proudly. I agree entirely. I once dropped my bike at Sturgis and was slightly grazed on my forarm and elbows. The wound wasn't much but I bled like a stuck pig. Luckily the town was mostly empty, it being just after dawn, so I rode over the car wash to clean up the bike. There was a Bandido in the next stall, and so after hosing down the bike I turned the high pressure nozzle on my arm and cleaned it off. A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do, no matter how stupid. But for Jake losing a leg was different - not a man to man situation but fear about a woman's reaction. (I once read that a woman's greatest fear was physical violence and a man's was being laughed at. Sounds right to me.)

The filtration system was another thing I had in and yanked to save wordage, so it's going back in. We don't pay water rates here, so I didn't even think of that. I think I'll leave out that consideration, pretend it's taking place here.

As for my first sentence, as cmix pointed out it is long. That was deliberate, setting a tone and a mood, so I think I'll leave it as is. I can't think of any other way to set the mood and tone of the character. Think of it as stream of consciousness.

Dryad pointed out a couple of word errors. I had already noticed one, but the other one completely escaped me. In fact, even after reading Dryad's comments I didn't see it until I reread a second time. Shows the importance of having your story proofed by a fresh eye, I guess.

I'm starting to ramble. I could go on for pages more, but only at the risk of losing the few people who got this far to narcolepsy. Again, thank you all, and with some luck I'll have the (very) revised version posted to ASSM in a few weeks.

And thanks especially to Ray, who caused me to think that this would be a Good Thing to do, and far less painful than a root canal, and to Desdmona, who has provided a marvellous forum in the Fish Tank.

Iconoclast

From: Souvie
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: 13 Aug 2002 21:14:55 -0700

"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...

It was bound to happen. Tucked away in the middle of a bunch of correspondence about the FishTank was a story that should have been posted weeks ago. Iconoclast sent me his FishTank anniversary story and I misplaced it. Well, that's not true, I didn't misplace it. It was right where it should be. I just missed it. Anyway, my sincere apologies to Iconoclast for this oversight and I'm happy to say his story is 1 of 2 stories in the tank today.

Iconoclast says, "It is 5,504 words long, a little longer than I would like, but I just couldn't pare it down any more. I must say that I would never have written this story without Ray having jumpstarted me with the idea, and I never considered submitting a story to the FishTank. I am considering writing further episodes using the characters in this story, and would love to have feedback before I do this."

FishTank guidelines apply:

The comments to FishTank entries take place right here on ASSD. But you can find the stories and the comments stored at:

http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base

Questions? Suggestions? Submissions? Direct them to: [email protected] or [email protected].

***************************************** Jake's Fish Tank (MF, MF, exhib, voy, rom) by Iconoclast [email protected]

1) 2 positive suggestions
2) 2 things to improve
3) Try not to repeat!

Well, I can't guarantee not to repeat, but ...

Positive: I like Jake's resourcefullness in trying to oust the yuppies. He doesn't succeed, true, but he still comes up with some good ideas.

Positive: I was given a short intro into a world that's unfamiliar, and I came away from the story that much (yes it sounds corny but it's the only word I can think of right now) enriched for it.

Improvement: A couple of typos I noticed.

Improvement: Maybe we could have gotten a bit more about their life together, there at the end.

- Souvie

From: Mat Twassel
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: 14 Aug 2002 11:34:42 GMT

Souvie writes:

Positive: I like Jake's resourcefullness in trying to oust the yuppies. He doesn't succeed, true, but he still comes up with some good ideas.

Yes, the story depends on it. It struck me as a little suspect at the time. Why would a businessman want to drive away business? I suppose it could happen. But if he really didn't want Yuppies, couldn't he just put up a sign? And if that didn't work, have a Yuppie surcharge. $20 cover $20 a beer. Or have a biker bouncer at the door screening the patrons.

- Mat Twassel

Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com

From: Iconoclast
Re: Jake's Fish Tank, by Iconoclast
Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 16:33:04 GMT

[email protected] (mat twassel) wrote on Wed 14 Aug 2002 04:34:42a

Souvie writes:

Positive: I like Jake's resourcefullness in trying to oust the yuppies. He doesn't succeed, true, but he still comes up with some good ideas.

Yes, the story depends on it. It struck me as a little suspect at the time. Why would a businessman want to drive away business? I suppose it could happen. But if he really didn't want Yuppies, couldn't he just put up a sign? And if that didn't work, have a Yuppie surcharge. $20 cover $20 a beer. Or have a biker bouncer at the door screening the patrons.

You're right, the story does depend on it. But I don't see that attitude of wanting to run the business his way, almost like a party get-together, to be all that unusual. Some people decide to leave the rat race and do something for less money than they have been making but which fulfills them. Unlimited growth is the philosophy of a cancer cell.

As for screening out the yuppie riff-raff, that's easier said than done. The problem is that you can't tell by looking at someone whether they are bikers or merely someone who owns a bike.

<sappy mode on> It's more of an attitude and lifestyle than any particular clothes or looks, and the overriding feeling of brotherhood. <sappy mode off>

If the guy is clean-shaven and has short hair he must be a yuppie, right? Except that in this case he's a full member of the Hells Angels, and any member of a 1 percenter club is automatically a biker. And here's another guy with a beard and sloppy clothes, so he must be a biker, right? Nope, it's just Steve Wozniak on a bad hair day, and he's an OK guy and not a yuppie but he sure as hell isn't a biker.

One thing I tried to get across in this story is that you can't tell the character of a man just by pegging him from the look of his clothes and or the size of his wallet. And besides I needed Jake to try out his fish tank schemes, otherwise there'd be no story.

Iconoclast

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