Fish Tank Story Comments - The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story)

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From: Altan
Re: The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story), by Souvie
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 16:01:50 GMT

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:13:52 -0400, "Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote:

Fishtank guidelines apply:

1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!

Positive 1: A fun story, a pleasure to read. Once I started reading, I really wanted to know how this would end.

Positive 2: I liked the characters. They are basically stereotypes we all know (the grumpy newspaper editor, the young reporter, the geeky lab assistant) and you captured them well. Using characters based on stereotypes allows you to move the story ahead without having to spend much time showing who is who. On the other hand, if this story is part of a series (and I hope it is), the series will allow you to expand some of the characters beyond their stereotype so they won't become boring.

The one character that I did not quite "get" was Gayle. It seems as if you are setting her up as a regular part of the series, in which case I think she deserves a bit more attention. If she's not to be a regular, the mention of the photocopier incident and the lock-picking capability seem out of place and unnecessary.

Which leads me to suggestion 1: expand on Gayle. Why didn't she talk about the copier incident, is she just discrete or does she have a secret crush on Trudy? Maybe give her a little bit larger role in the interrogation of George?

Suggestion 2: the transition of Trudy from the customs department agent to the seductress seemed too abrupt to me. I would have Trudy prepare for that from the moment she sees George, for instance when she "ajusted the hem of [her] suit jacket," make her do it so it not only makes her look more official, but also more sexy. At the other end of the transformation, when she is ready to give him the blow job, something has to happen as well. George has to realize this is not a government agent, but of course by now he doesn't care much. I would expect something in the interaction to reflect this.

You ask in your introduction if the story needs more sex. I don't think so, but I do think it could use more eroticism. It seems to me Trudy has a very easy attitude about sex, for her it is fun but also useful part of life. She gives George a blowjob because it will allow Gayle to make a couple of good pictures, but she also enjoys it. I would expect her to show that attitude more. For instance, she could be teasing her grumpy editor by "accidentally" exposing herself. Or, when Trudy unbuttons her suit jacket when questioning George, let her not have anything underneath.

All in all, I'll be anxious to read more about Trudy and her adventures!

http://www.asstr.org/~altan/

From: Desdmona
Re: The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story), by Souvie
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 16:45:03 -0400

The Case of the Fradulent Fish

For some reason the original post isn't showing up on my server so I'll latch on here.

Souvie~

I think you did a marvelous job of capturing the character of Trudy. She's wisecracking, smart, or at least has moxy, and she's fun. (Anyone that photcopies their body parts has got to be a little fun)

I think I'll point out a couple of specifics as far as suggestions.

"I want you to get down ther and get me the story. Not the fancy pants version they fed to the press ..."

Aren't they the press? Maybe you could say: Not the fancy pants version they want to feed to the press ..."

"I thought about who from the photo department to take with me. I wanted someone I could work with; someone who wasn't liable to question my sometimes-unorthodox meds of information gathering. Gayle was probably my best bet ..."

Something about this seems heavy. I'm wondering if you could reword it a little so it seems smoother. Maybe: [I had to grab a photographer. Gayle was my best bet. She'd already proven she could handle my unorthodox methods when she didn't blab to the whole office that she'd caught me photocoping my [boobs.] Fudge, I never did send that to Eric.]

And one last place:

"I wasn't a math whiz, but even I could figure out that the odds of just happening to have along somwone who was a semi-pro at lock picking ...."

This whole paragraph makes it sound like Gayle was chosen for this assignment by somebody else, and there are ulterior motives. In this story, there never did seem to be, but maybe in the next Trudy Tolliver there will be. Maybe you could just say something like: [It didn't take a math whiz to figure out those odds. Today must be my lucky day.] Having Trudy quickly say, it's her lucky day makes the idea that Gayle's presence has some mystery to it fizzle some. Otherwise, we have to wonder why a supposed ace-reporter wouldn't question the odds a little more closely.

I think you've got great potential here for a series that would include Trudy and Gayle. Maybe eventually Gayle could get some of the action. I think it was Jeff who suggested something about elaborating on Trudy's feelings about the blow job. I agree totally. I think you'll want these things she does to get a story be also things she does because she enjoys them.

Hope this helps!

Thanks bunches for your determination to get this done to celebrate our anniversary with us. I really enjoyed it.

Des

From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story), by Souvie
Date: Mon, 26 Aug 2002 22:42:15 -0600

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:13:52 -0400, "Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote:

Having read other Trudy Tolliver stories, I have some feel for how she acts. But as a standalone, maybe we need just a little more? I don't know, to me the overall situation kind of makes sense from the start.

The opening seems pretty solid. Trudy is flirting with Eric, with no positive results but it seems like a natural bit of her playing around in the office.

I thought about who from the photo department to take with me. I wanted someone I could work with; someone who wasn't liable to question my sometimes-unorthodox methods of information gathering. Gayle was probably my best bet. She was outgoing, but not too pushy, and pretty, not stunning. She'd accidentally walked in on me last month when I was using the copy machine to copy certain parts of my anatomy. Her face turning a slight pink, she didn't say a word, just turned around and walked out. The fact that the whole office hadn't found out about it in ten minutes flat led me to believe that she could keep a secret.

The copying thing makes me wonder why she was doing it. It can be an interesting game, but you can get better pictures with a camera - and Trudy doesn't seem like she'd be camera shy. I can't remember if there was some prior episode which illustrated this.

OTOH, the keeping of that secret would seem a reason to cultivate a bit more friendship. Maybe Trudy has done that, getting along nicely with her? The story doesn't really spell that out, whether there is more to their relationship than just these couple of issues.

Near the end of the corridor I found what I was looking for. Marked with a small plaque that read 'Quarantine Room: Authorized Personnel Only,' the door had a sophisticated looking electronic lock that quashed my hopes of a quick entry. I sighed with frustration, and turned to Gayle, hoping we could go somewhere and come up with a "Plan B."

She pushed passed me, handing me her oversized purse in the process. She quickly started pressing buttons on the lock, her fingers moving faster than I could almost keep up with. "What the?"

"My father is a security expert for the Pentagon," she said in a low voice. "I picked up a tip or two growing up." She smiled at me over her shoulder. "The lock might look impressive, but it's actually one of the cheapest on the market. The trick is to confuse it into thinking that you've entered the right code."

I wasn't a math whiz, but even I could figure that the odds of just happening to have along someone who was a semi-pro at lock picking - and electronic locks at that - was probably a million to one. I made a mental note to pray to all the good fortune deities I could think of before I went to bed that night.

A really big lucky break, and an unlikely one. When things go too easily, my natural suspicious suspects cheating. The combo of a security "expert" and a lock which is very insecure seems miraculous.

Not sure how to tone it down. Nothing wrong with Gayle knowing how to pick locks, but e-locks are bypassed more easily by knowing the key. As a hack into a lock, I don't know about the confusion thing. But I might buy that there is a "security office override" combo which can be entered, which should be disabled but wasn't.

I don't know if it kills the story, there are a lot of lucky breaks throughout. But the rest seems way more likely than this one.

My sneaky guess, though, is that Gayle had prior knowledge of the place, dug up the security codes from a "friend" in the alarm office, and just pretended to "pick" the thing. Even nastier would be the idea that she was somehow in on the thing, knowing someone (Dr Trayhern maybe) before - so having the code wasn't luck, nor investigation, at all.

"Hey! This area is off limits." A young man walked into the lab from a door that was partially hidden behind a tall cabinet. His dark hair was disheveled and looked like it hadn't seen a pair of clippers in at least a month. His glasses had slipped down to the end of his nose - or maybe that's the way he normally wore them - giving him a schoolmarm appearance. Well, if it weren't for the lean and very masculine body under his lab coat that flashed into view with every step he took. I had sudden urge to back away, just so he'd have farther to walk. I blamed it on the setting: I'd had fantasies of getting it on with a geeky scientific type ever since my crush on Mr. Fisher in eleventh grade chemistry.

I think Trudy could have worked out the fantasy in RL before, if she really tried ;-) But it is OK, it can be hard to fulfill every wish. Maybe, though, she was thinking of getting into something with him, and here she might reveal a bit of her secret thoughts?

I think that the sex is a bit abrupt. Now, should Trudy spend more time on the seduction, on flirting? She does a little bit of it, but maybe doesn't want to show off too much in front of Gayle?

If that is so, then the pushy way of making George accept a blow job is OK. Except that I think both Trudy and George would make a bit more of the situation. OK, so George doesn't feel like resisting a good thing. I can see that. We don't know enough about him to know what is sex life is like; not all "lab rats" are virgins even if they might act like they should be, prudish in public. But he should say something, and maybe Trudy needs to explain her desire.

If nothing else, admiting that she is really turned on by him, and just wants to do it. It is her fantasy, and she hopes that he won't mind if she does it. "Oh, I really like how your cock looks. So strong and handsome, just like you." And so forth.

Then, what about when it all gets going? I mean, the sex is kind of obviously meant to please George and get him out of there, so she can do what she does. And for a while, to distract him while Gayle does her job. But is she simply into it to please the guy, or is it something exciting for her? Does she like how he tastes, how he feels? The expression on his face, that is good.

Why does he just go away so easily, embarrassed afterward? We don't have to know, but 2nd helpings or returning the favor would seem to pop into mind for me. Maybe he knows that the Dr is coming back soon; maybe he would realize this and worry not just about Trudy seeing him, but being caught by his boss! That would make the whole "I have to go and clean up now" thing more urgent. And also explain why he didn't worry about checking up on either reporter.

"Sure thing, boss," I said. I'd gotten the story I'd been sent after and it'd made the front page, much to my delight and Dirk's annoyance. I had a new friend, Gayle the photographer. I got to play out my "seducing the geeky lab assistant" fantasy. And I had George's home phone number tucked safely in my pocket. I had every reason in the world to celebrate.

"Where do you want to go?" Peterson asked, locking his desk and grabbing his jacket.

I followed him out the door. "Anything but sushi, please."

I like the follow-up. It is a good thing that Gayle the photographer and security expert is a friend. What are the odds that she didn't deduce roughly what went on in the office? Did Trudy have some nice mouthwash to use after? Tell-tale burps can be a giveaway, you know? ;-) Maybe a scene is needed to explain that, maybe just a line explaining how happy Gayle was to have found someone who really knows how to bite into a story? :-)

Jeff

Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/

There is nothing more important than petting the cat.

From: Bradley Stoke
Re: The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story), by Souvie
Date: 27 Aug 2002 12:46:48 -0700

Souvie

This wasn't really the kind of story I normally read, so I'm again rather incompetent when it comes to determining how good it is. It sounded to me a bit like an episode of some American mainstream television series designed for early teens (although the sex element might be a bit hot for American mainstream TV), so all the clich�s which I found rather tedious were probably there for a purpose and perhaps should be understood as such. Cigar-chomping newsmen, geeky lab assistants, an oddly dull conspiracy and people who seem to know all about secure codes through some osmotic process involving the Pentagon. Rather stretched my credibility. But maybe this is satire meant to highlight the absurdity of all this. After all, there is a kind of humorous tone to it all.

I liked the description of the fish. I'm no ichthyologist and my Latin doesn't stretch very far, but the specific name for the fish "texanum" suggests a Texan origin. Perhaps goblin fishes are common on the Texas shore. However, a fish that's been rediscovered after only 110 million years doesn't sound like much of a scoop to me. The famous coelacanth (Latimeria) represented a whole group of lobe-finned fishes as distinct as a rat is from a budgerigar, thought to be extinct for rather longer than the Cretaceous. Still, perhaps these geeky lab assistant types, who ejaculate so quickly, get aroused by the smallest thing.

And I liked the joke on "rectum". I must try that out one day. In the UK of course we have the four letter word "arse" for the whole thing of which the rectum is a part. You have the word "ass". How do you distinguish rectums from donkeys over there? I guess it's all to do with context. Though I have strange images of mistreated donkeys every time an American talks of kicking ass, licking ass or just sitting on one.

I wasn't so keen on the plot contrivance, I'm afraid. It had an element of Scooby Doo or other Hanna Barbra children's thrillers to me. But again, maybe people get really excited about fish-related fraud over there in the States. I'd have though that it was the Japanese though who'd get most excited about fish stories. After all they eat sushi.

I found the flow of dialogue and narrative a little awkward on occasion. It just didn't work too well for me. I suppose that was because of the difficulty of making fish fraud at all interesting. I wondered why there had to be a fraud involving fish to begin with. But I guess without fraud there'd have been very little incentive for Tolliver to have sex with a geeky lab assistant. Sounds like a good job to me. You look after fish and you have sex with female reporters. Good thing Tolliver was a woman and the lab assistant wasn't gay, I suppose. That would have complicated things a bit!

So, all in all, not bad. But no more my bowl of sushi than it was for Tolliver after getting the scoop of the century (if you're a goblin fish enthusiast that is!)

Bradley Stoke

http://www.asstr.org/~Bradley_Stoke

From: dennyw
Re: The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story), by Souvie
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 01:43:10 -0700

On 27 Aug 2002 12:46:48 -0700, [email protected] (Bradley Stoke) wrote:

And I liked the joke on "rectum". I must try that out one day. In the UK of course we have the four letter word "arse" for the whole thing of which the rectum is a part. You have the word "ass". How do you distinguish rectums from donkeys over there?

Mostly we calls 'em donkeys, burros, or jackasses; it's rare in US english to call that animal an ass. Though of course we often call people 'ass' - and sometimes that means 'arse' and sometimes it means 'donkey.'

Then of course the Democratic party uses a donkey for a symbol. (not gonna go there, nope.)

From: Mat Twassel
Re: The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story), by Souvie
Date: 28 Aug 2002 14:49:31 GMT

There was no much neat ass stuff in the beginning of the story that I was disappointed nothing seemed to come of it in the end.

My other suggestion is to watch out for needless dialogue tags. In one case you have a perfect bit of natural interruption, and then for some reason the interrupting bit of dialogue is tagged ..." he interrupted.

- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com

From: cmsix
Re: The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story), by Souvie
Date: Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:18:25 GMT

"Bradley Stoke" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ... <big snip>

And I liked the joke on "rectum". I must try that out one day. In the UK of course we have the four letter word "arse" for the whole thing of which the rectum is a part. You have the word "ass". How do you distinguish rectums from donkeys over there?

Over here we have the seven letter word for rectum - asshole.

cmsix

From: john
Re: The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story), by Souvie
Date: 27 Aug 2002 22:44:22 -0700

Des and Souvie,

Unpretentious, entertaining, polished. I got into it at once. It read just like a radio drama, specifically the "Peggy Delaney" mystery series on CBC. That's a compliment, assuming that neither Peggy or Radio Canada are probably that big Texas. A large compliment from me.

1] Balance. Overall (this is the "polished" praise) you did a swell job of juggling being conversational (which necessitates getting off topic now and then) with avoiding an infatuation with clever bits that don't really go anywhere important. Like the copier thing. Very sweet. It showed a bit about Tolliver and a bit about Gayle, and you did it smoothly, effortlessly and quickly. It entertained. That isn't really effortless, is it?

2] Tone. It had delicious background music. You wrote your scenes so well, they came alive. It was amusing, not hilarious; it never pretended to be that. Just warm. With only one exception, I thought your dialogue and stream of consciousness carried the mood extremely well.

3] Justifications. They ought to precede the action that needs justifying. (I bet you knew that already.) Twice you made me blink. Personally, I don't feel either of the justifications were needed at all, but if you think they were, then they'd be smoother if placed well before the plot turns on them. First the badge, second the mini camera. Tolliver could have mentioned them (maybe along with a red herring or two) as they were getting ready or even going to the FT. It's niggly. If this were a real mystery, it would be important. What I'm saying is, those passages make it sound like a poorly written mystery, and it put me off. Needlessly. It's neither poorly written nor a mystery per se.

4] Exceptions. Two teeny errors and an oversight.

a. The only typo that I found:
"I'm sorry, George, I didn't mean to put you on the spot," I liked. is probably "lied"

b. a semicolon instead of a comma, I believe, in: "Fuck the fashion article, Heather can finish it,

c. This bit of dialogue is so out of place you must have forgotten to revise it. and now some in the scientific
field are challenging the find. Saying it's not what it was thought at first."

A different character said that part, for sure. Perhaps someone British or Canadian.

Thank you very much for sharing it. It's lovely. John

P.S Who cares about the sex; the writing is exceptional. And Tolliver is as "real" as the story expects her to be already. I wouldn't try to turn this into something grand. It is already.

From: Tesseract
Re: The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story), by Souvie
Date: 28 Aug 2002 23:04:33 -0700

[email protected] (john) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...

Des and Souvie,

4] Exceptions. Two teeny errors and an oversight. ... b. a semicolon instead of a comma, I believe, in: "Fuck the fashion article, Heather can finish it,

Use periods:
"Fuck the fashion article. Heather can finish it," He doesn't seem like a semicolon type of guy.

Tesseract - a ...? ... type of guy

From: Desdmona
Re: The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story), by Souvie
Date: Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:02:58 -0400

"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...

The Case of the Fradulent Fish by Souvie

Homer Vargas has written to me and expressed an interest in participating to the FishTank. Because of his location he is unable to participate in newsgroups. Therefore I am posting his comments for him.

Fish Tank #61

Positive Comment 1: Trudy's personality come across well, even to someone unfamiliar with the "series."

Positive Comment 2: The gruff editor/junior reporter set up is funny and well done.

Suggestion for Improvement 1: Be consistent with Trudy's use of like/as. One time she gets it right one time she does not.

Suggestion for Improvement 2: After the detailed set up, the "solution" came too quickly (sort of like George.) I was sort of sorry for Gayle. Shouldn't she have been able to get laid while Trudy was busy?

Or does that violate the "sidekick never gets sex" convention?

Cheers,

Homer

My stories are now found on
http://www.storiesonline.net (Thanks Lazeez) http://www.eroticstories.com (Thanks, Art) http://www.asstr.org/~Vargas/stories.html (Thanks Kristen)

From: dennyw
Re: The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story), by Souvie
Date: Sun, 01 Sep 2002 16:36:51 -0700

On Sun, 1 Sep 2002 10:02:58 -0400, "Desdmona" <[email protected]> held forth, saying:

(quoting Homer)

Suggestion for Improvement 1: Be consistent with Trudy's use of like/as. One time she gets it right one time she does not.

And that is very common in speech. It's generally far more colloquial and variable than writing from the same person would be. (certainly mine is)

-denny- (curmudgeon)

"There are two tragedies in life.
One is to lose your heart's desire. The other is to gain it." - G.B. Shaw

From: Souvie
Re: The Case of the Fraudulent FishTank (A Trudy Tolliver Story), by Souvie
Date: Mon, 02 Sep 2002 14:31:48 GMT

On Mon, 26 Aug 2002 09:13:52 -0400, "Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote:

Sorry I'm a day late thanking everyone, but since my body knows that I'm leaving on Wednesday, it's started trying to come down with a cold/allergies. I feel like I could sleep for a week. <g>

Now, down to business ...

Altan: I'm glad it was fun for you. The day I quit writing will be the day that it is no longer fun for me to do so. The story is part of a series as I have written two other Trudy stories. Both can be found on my website (url at the bottom of this post). I hadn't considered making Gayle a reoccurring character, but I see now that I could. Like you suggest, I could expand on her and possibly use her in future stories. As for Trudy's seduction scene, it does need work. I knew that. I'll see what I can do in the rewrite.

Jeff: I wasn't sure if I should explain more about Trudy since readers might not necessarily have read the previous stories. I might put something toward the beginning to help with that. Again, will work on doing more with Gayle. The whole electronic locks things was thrown in on a spur of the moment. I was going to have Trudy and Gayle just walk in, but then realized that if it's a restricted area, there might be some sort of lock on the door. That part needs a definite rewrite.

Bradley: I'm sorry this isn't your cup of tea, but thanks for taking the time to read and comment anyway. Yes, the characters are more or less stereotypes, but they are characters that most people can recognize and sometimes identify with. Your other suggests/comments I'll take into consideration. :)

Mat: I do better with setting than dialogue, and I see you noticed that. I'll go back over the dialogue parts and try to clean it up.

John: Thanks for the positive comments. Based on your comments, and others, I need to really look at the whole scene there with George, and see if I couldn't write it better.

Des: Thanks for pointing out awkward parts in the description/dialogue. Some parts seemed unwieldy to me, too, but at the time I couldn't think of a better way to put it. Hopefully now, with some time and distance, I can come back to the story with a fresh perspective. Thanks for having my (and my story!) in the Fish Tank!

-Souvie
http://www.asstr.org/~Souvie

The two previous Trudy stories are:
The Case of the Masochistic Wrestlers
<http://www.asstr.org/~Souvie/wrestlers.html> The Case of the Extortive Escort Service <http://www.asstr.org/~Souvie/escort.html>

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