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From: Bradley Stoke
Re: FishTank, by Uther Pendragon
Date: 13 Aug 2002 10:46:37 -0700
Uther
An interesting story, which gave me an insight into why your stories are so very popular. A story that celebrated marriage, having children, fidelity and gives the hope of a long and romantic future within the confines of wedlock. However, I feel badly equipped to review this story. It was like crossing the river to another shore. What I didn't enjoy about the story are probably the very things that make this story successful. I suppose celebration and joy at years of successful matrimony is a good thing. I guess that there are many couples who get a warm feeling from this story. So, I shall have to be quite spare in my comments.
I liked the description of "secretarial spread". That was beautifully done. And the confession that Kimberley had never been beautiful (except in her husband's eyes)? Very nice. Very comforting. And I guess that the secret of a long successful relationship is to accept that your partner isn't perfect.
I thought your language was totally appropriate throughout. Is this what romantic fiction is like? Cuddles and kisses, not much action or scene change, and a lot of reflection. However, it kept its tone and made the sex seem natural within the context.
I was confused about Angela. The disgraced sister. (Actually, she sounded like good fun. Why did we only get to meet the good guys?) What was it that Angela had done that had upset everyone? In this very nice world of second bathrooms and fifteenth wedding anniversaries, you wonder whether it might not have been something that really cracked open the boundaries of etiquette. Like eating peas with a spoon. Or forgetting to send a card on someone's birthday. Or wearing inappropriate shoes at the wedding.
And other criticisms? I can't think of any and I refuse to start hunting down obscure syntactical errors just to bolster my score of criticisms to two. If it were worth commenting, then I'd see it without hunting for it. I may not have actually really enjoyed it much, but it was very well written and thoroughly suited for its intended audience.
So, if I ever wanted to recommend a writer whose stories bring hope and joy to middle-aged romance, I now know who it'll be. Well done!
Bradley Stoke
http://www.asstr.org/~Bradley_Stoke
From: oosh
Re: FishTank, by Uther Pendragon
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 22:43:08 +0000 (UTC)
Fish Tank (MF 1st WL)
By Uther Pendragon
[email protected]
I found this piece interesting technically. For the most part, it's very workmanlike prose, relaxed and easy (with one major exception that I'll come to in a moment), well paced, aptly punctuated. I liked its tone. The dialogue felt life-like and natural. I'm using a similar voice for a piece I'm writing at the moment. Positive suggestion number one: watch for over-use of "really" - I've caught myself doing that.
Her sister, never
friendly, having declined the invitation.
There were one or two minor slips of that nature.
But the thing that really caught my attention was the fact that this story puts the present in the past, and the past into the pluperfect. Almost all the action is in the pluperfect. And while an author is perfectly entitled to use this tense when necessary, here it's used most of the time. I have to say that I find it very heavy. It's very difficult to make it work with an action sequence:
"Oh, Kim," he'd said. He kissed her again. When they'd separated, she'd ducked into the bathroom.
Here, the need for vividness has forced the author into the aorist. But that middle sentence is really inconsistent with the tense in which the rest of the action is being told. The following extract, while correct, shows how awkward things can become:
Probably, he'd been
as aware as she'd been that it would be years before they'd be able to afford to replace clothes of this quality.
The worst problem about narrating in the pluperfect is that there's sometimes a need for the plu-pluperfect.
Compare this rewriting:
) She wanted more, wanted him to fill her up. Well, he had ) already filled her up, but she desired another filling.
with the original:
She'd wanted more, had wanted him to fill her up. Well, he had already filled her up, but she had desired another filling.
There's the occasional need to report what had already happened, and when the pluperfect is already booked for the main action, there's nowhere further to go. The final "had desired" is rendered ambiguous as to time, because we don't know whether it belongs at the time when he had already filled her up, or after that. Considerations like these lead me to believe that it is a mistake to use the pluperfect for the main part of the narrative.
How could this difficulty be resolved? One possibility is to put the present action into the (historic) present, and the past action into the past. Another would be to flag the flashbacks explicitly, or by using some sort of temporal reference to cue us in that it's a flashback, e.g. "John remembered their wedding night ..."
O.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: FishTank, by Uther Pendragon
Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 17:39:24 -0600
On Mon, 12 Aug 2002 09:10:12 -0400, "Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote:
This is a very nice tale of marital romance, and from Uther that is sort of to be expected. But that doesn't change that it is very nice.
Of things to notice, I liked the handling of birth control. Both the first time failure, and the casual continuing habit. I have to admit that relying on non-mechanical methods means we don't need to think about those things, but a lot of people do, married or otherwise. So it is nice to see it handled well in the story.
A nice anniversary day together is arranged. No parties, not in this one. That is nice too, but this story is about spending a day together just for each other. I happen to think that is a great thing to do, and this one goes quite well.
The daughter Des, though, is a bit more of a mystery. Her parents seem clueless about her, and maybe vice versa (is she guessing that they are going to spend the day "doing it"? How does she feel about that?)
On a personal note, it makes me wonder how I'll deal with a daughter of 14 going on 15, hanging around with boys and making her own way in life. This summer, I have two incidental things which make me think about it. Subtle things. My nephew has a nice set of fur-lined handcuffs, a gift from his girlfriend. My niece was demonstrating how to suck a popsicle entirely into her throat, a nice trick to distract boys with. Neither thing is exactly sex. I can find lots of other explanations, ignore the clues, or more precisely, assume that they are wise enough to make their own choices. Their parents did give them useful advice and clues on how to be safe and happy, but whether they'll follow them better than we did as children I can't say.
This story doesn't really hit on that issue, though I imagine that away from this anniversary day the couple does think about it. Still, I just can see my kids approaching the age where I first had sex, and wondering when they'll do what I did.
That isn't quite part of this story, but it is how it touched me personally. Odd, isn't it? The anniversary thing was very nice, and reminiscent of fine private times shared at home. Even if they aren't the same as my own, the feelings can be.
The unobjective issue of beauty is quite good as well. I'd think that maybe Kim would have grown used to that, but I've noticed that the denial of "most beautiful girl in the world" (or hottest guy) remains common, an ordinary thing no matter how often your love says it.
I liked the fish in the fishtank. The reaction was interesting, and I think in part it was the best illustration of the reaction of Des to the whole situation.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: john
Re: FishTank, by Uther Pendragon
Date: 13 Aug 2002 23:15:21 -0700
Des~
I thought the changes in POV and time were handled well. I had no trouble keeping track. Even though the tense might not be consistent, (it's a bitch in works like this) the text clues were good. In fact, the convolutions added much. Revealing background and foreground in bits and pieces ... dare I compare it ... like a classy stripper might put on her/his clothing. It added greatly to my interest.
I liked the shyness. Not just of the characters but of the story itself. It seemed to be almost blushing about itself from its gentle, well-clothed opening kiss to Kim's maybe-blush when remembering a pretty actress. It seemed to me consistent in both its word and deed. It's just as sexy as Maryanne on Gilligan. Moreso than Ginger anyway.
I found the fish too much, though. The characters are shy, but lordy, have I been missing something. With internet and television, movies and books, billboards and even news all selling everything with sex, how could parents seriously think estrus in fish would prepare a 14 yo for menstruation two months after she had started?
Conflict? The name? I liked the revelation at the end, but I didn't think that was the story. The premarital pregnancy? It seems to be an issue (part of the shyness that I liked) but not even a theme unless I read it poorly. The daughter interrupting? After the first, it's only mentioned as a reassurance that she won't. The WL? It must be nice to be conversant in the codes. Wedlock? No real troubles there. But, is "conflict" all that big a deal? Hmmm. I haven't read enough erotica to tell. In stories, though, it is. Well, kinda.
As a monument to marriage. Cool.
John (not be confused with any character in a work of fiction living or dead)
From: Mat Twassel
Re: FishTank, by Uther Pendragon
Date: 15 Aug 2002 01:51:01 GMT
==Major recommendations: fix the tense; do what you can to make the prose a little less stuffy and formal and mechanical; reduce some of the step-by-step stuff. Some of it helps the characterization, which is really good in general, but I think you have way more than you need.
==I like the middle sex scene a lot. One of your best. This is an interesting family. I'd like to see more of them.
- Mat Twassel
Mat's Erotic Calendar at http://calendar.atEros.com
From: Desdmona
Re: FishTank, by Uther Pendragon
Date: Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:40:59 -0400
Fish Tank (MF 1st WL)
By Uther Pendragon
[email protected]
Uther~
There are wonderful expressions of love in this story that would make any married woman of 15 years happy. The paragraph about her secretarial spread, the beauty in the wife that only the husband sees, and the fact that they make love nearly in the same way and position as the time they conceived ...almost as a ritual. They're a devoted couple. I like that!
I think my favorite moment in the whole story might be:
Should she walk out
undressed? She'd decided against that, but had removed her
pantyhose instead of pulling them up. After a moment, she'd
taken off her panties as well. She'd pulled her skirt back on.
How often had John seen her in a skirt? Not many times. There'd
been nowhere to put the underclothes. She'd walked out with them
in her hand.
Such a real moment, and sexy in an innocent way. Perfect.
I felt very confused in the whole scene that begins with discussing acting in the play. I had to read it several times to understand it. I think some of the confusion of the whole scene is the addition of characters that go nowhere in the story - Dave, Annette, Melissa, and even Desmond. Why do we need these names?
And I'm still not sure I understand this part:
"I got two playbills this evening," she'd said. The play had been a university production - theater arts hadn't owned it. And the University had maintained a print shop. Two playbills on one ticket hadn't been that much cheating. "I think that I will send one to my mom." And the playbill had included an excellent (if small) photo of him.
"How you communicate with your parents is your decision."
I think the voice and reaction of Des, the daughter is very nicely done. Of course she'd not want to share any kind of sex with her parents. But I don't understand why she doesn't know the basic fact of how the male fish carry the eggs. Especially when we are told she knows more about fish care than either of her parents.
One other thing that baffled me is why after 15 years they're still using birth control and not had any other children. It seems to me that this loving couple would have either had more children and were done, or they were still trying.
Thanks Uther for participating in the FishTank anniversary! Ray has done a great job of encouraging a lot of folk!
Des
From: Uther Pendragon
Re: FishTank, by Uther Pendragon
Date: 17 Aug 2002 12:26:23 -0600
I have seen responses from Bradley Stoke (BR), Desdmona (Des), John Dear (John), Jeff Zephyr (JZ), Mat Twassel (Mat), and Oosh (Oosh). If anyone else responded in a timely manner, then the responses didn't get to either newsreader I use. If you still have a copy, I'd appreciate your e-mailing it to me.
I've sort of rearranged the answers to fit my understanding. The content of the story comes first, and then the telling. Sort of.
1 Nice.
BR:
An interesting story, which gave me an insight into why your stories are so very popular.
They are? Why hasn't someone told me? More to the point, why hasn't someone told the download reports from ASSTR?
A story that celebrated marriage, having children, fidelity and gives the hope of a long and romantic future within the confines of wedlock.
Way back in the days of "courtly love" the argument was made that love and marriage were incompatible. They aren't. Now some marriages are sterile; some are full of devotion, but empty of passion; BUT some marriages have both passion and devotion.
In Heart Ball, where I have loads more space, I played with that. Wayne and Allison Bryant have sex [you couldn't call it making love] once a week, and otherwise sleep in separate beds. Roger and Rachel Anderson have maintained a relationship in which they celebrate his homecomings console themselves for his goings away, and have phone sex when they can't sleep together.
JZ:
A nice anniversary day together is arranged. No parties, not in this one. That is nice too, but this story is about spending a day together just for each other. I happen to think that is a great thing to do, and this one goes quite well.
John:
I liked the shyness. Not just of the characters but of the story itself. It seemed to be almost blushing about itself from its gentle, well-clothed opening kiss to Kim's maybe-blush when remembering a pretty actress. It seemed to me consistent in both its word and deed. As a monument to marriage. Cool.
Des:
There are wonderful expressions of love in this story that would make any married woman of 15 years happy. ... and the fact that they make love nearly in the same way and position as the time they conceived ...almost as a ritual. They're a devoted couple. I like that!
I'm glad. I thought that an anniversary in a sex story needed a little of that. As for the same position, the matrimonial (missionary) position is fairly common. Mat:
I like the middle sex scene a lot. One of your best. This is an interesting family. I'd like to see more of them.
Saying you'd like to see more of the characters is about the nicest thing you can say to an author.
2 Beautiful.
BR:
I liked the description of "secretarial spread". That was beautifully done. And the confession that Kimberley had never been beautiful (except in her husband's eyes)? Very nice. Very comforting. And I guess that the secret of a long successful relationship is to accept that your partner isn't perfect.
Des:
The paragraph about her
secretarial spread, the beauty in the wife that only the husband sees,
JZ:
The unobjective issue of beauty is quite good as well. I'd think that maybe Kim would have grown used to that, but I've noticed that the denial of "most beautiful girl in the world" (or hottest guy) remains common, an ordinary thing no matter how often your love says it.
I think Jeff gets closer to the facts. John sees Kim as beautiful. Kim doesn't. What woman sees herself as beautiful? (Now, I'll admit that John uses "beautiful" as an intensifier of "pretty" or even "attractive.")
3 Contraception.
Des:
One other thing that baffled me is why after 15 years they're still using birth control and not had any other children. It seems to me that this loving couple would have either had more children and were done, or they were still trying.
JZ:
Of things to notice, I liked the handling of birth control. Both the first time failure, and the casual continuing habit. I have to admit that relying on non-mechanical methods means we don't need to think about those things, but a lot of people do, married or otherwise. So it is nice to see it handled well in the story.
Well, there are several choices: Be fertile, have a vasectomy or have the woman's tubes tied, use the pill, use the diaphragm and jelly. I very much doubt that any of these choices are rare among the couples in the situation of John and KIm. Remember that Kim works (secretarial spread comes from sitting in a chair all day); do they want to add the cost of another child to the diminished income from Kim's earliest maternity period?
I'll admit that I just wanted to have them conscious of the problems that a teenager adds to one's sex life.
4 Des. - The daughter, with two 'e's. DesdEmona.
JZ:
The daughter Des, though, is a bit more of a mystery. Her parents seem clueless about her, and maybe vice versa (is she guessing that they are going to spend the day "doing it"? How does she feel about that?)
On a personal note, it makes me wonder how I'll deal with a daughter of 14 going on 15, hanging around with boys and making her own way in life. This summer, I have two incidental things
The next section deals with other comments on the daughter.
I think that Jeff was rather precocious in that regard. OTOH, on reading this comment and thinking about it the story might be more believable set a year earlier. Their 14th anniversary, she's 13 1/2.
As for guessing that her parents were going to spend the day "doing it," the ability of kids to ignore the sexual nature of their parents is often impressive. Not always, I'll grant. But considering that they are evidence that their parents had a sex life, considering how many families keep BC pills in plain sight, the ability of kids to ignore the evidence often astounds me.
Once again, I played with that in Heart Ball. (Also in "Locksmiths," but I haven't got that one on my website.)
5 Fish
JZ:
I liked the fish in the fishtank. The reaction was interesting, and I think in part it was the best illustration of the reaction of Des to he whole situation.
Des:
I think the voice and reaction of Des, the daughter is very nicely done. Of course she'd not want to share any kind of sex with her parents. But I don't understand why she doesn't know the basic fact of how the male fish carry the eggs. Especially when we are told she knows more about fish care than either of her parents.
John:
I found the fish too much, though. The characters are shy, but lordy, have I been missing something. With internet and television, movies and books, billboards and even news all selling everything with sex, how could parents seriously think estrus in fish would prepare a 14 yo for menstruation two months after she had started?
Well, it wasn't a preparation for menstruation. It was an education about sex. And parents frequently see the sex life of pets as low-intensity sex education.
6 Tense.
John:
I thought the changes in POV and time were handled well. I had no trouble keeping track. Even though the tense might not be consistent, (it's a bitch in works like this) the text clues were good. In fact, the convolutions added much. Revealing background and foreground in bits and pieces ... dare I compare it ... like a classy stripper might put on her/his clothing. It added greatly to my interest.
Mat:
[F]ix the tense;
Oosh:
But the thing that really caught my attention was the fact that this story puts the present in the past, and the past into the pluperfect. Almost all the action is in the pluperfect. And while an author is perfectly entitled to use this tense when necessary, here it's used most of the time. I have to say that I find it very heavy. It's very difficult to make it work with an action sequence: ...
How could this difficulty be resolved? One possibility is to put the present action into the (historic) present, and the past action into the past. Another would be to flag the flashbacks explicitly, or by using some sort of temporal reference to cue us in that it's a flashback, e.g. "John remembered their wedding night ..."
This problem was obvious by the time I'd got through the first draft of the story. So I send Neneh two versions, present/past and past/past-perfect. The present/past version was worse.
I think some way to set off flashbacks might work better.
(One problem is that Gary has persuaded me to move my website gradually away from Preformatted text files. So that the solution for the webpage must be different from the solution for ASM.)
7 Sister.
BR:
I was confused about Angela. The disgraced sister. (Actually, she sounded like good fun. Why did we only get to meet the good guys?) What was it that Angela had done that had upset everyone? In this very nice world of second bathrooms and fifteenth wedding anniversaries, you wonder whether it might not have been something that really cracked open the boundaries of etiquette. Like eating peas with a spoon. Or forgetting to send a card on someone's birthday. Or wearing inappropriate shoes at the wedding.
Well, she didn't wear inappropriate shoes at the wedding.
Her sister, never friendly, having declined the invitation.
Kim and Angela (the first) never got along. I will say, however, that when a white woman declines the invitation to the wedding of her sister to a Black man, some people are going to interpret it as racism. I really didn't put many other clues in regarding the grounds of he sisters' quarrel. I don't think, though, that there is any real basis for assuming that Angela was the nonconformist of the family.
8 Story.
John:
Conflict? The name? I liked the revelation at the end, but I didn't think that was the story. The premarital pregnancy? It seems to be an issue (part of the shyness that I liked) but not even a theme unless I read it poorly. The daughter interrupting? After the first, it's only mentioned as a reassurance that she won't. The WL? It must be nice to be conversant in the codes. Wedlock? No real troubles there. But, is "conflict" all that big a deal? Hmmm. I haven't read enough erotica to tell. In stories, though, it is. Well, kinda.
Oosh:
I found this piece interesting technically. For the most part, it's very workmanlike prose, relaxed and easy (with one major exception that I'll come to in a moment), well paced, aptly punctuated. I liked its tone. The dialogue felt life-like and natural. I'm using a similar voice for a piece I'm writing at the moment. Positive suggestion number one: watch for over-use of "really" - I've caught myself doing that.
Mat:
[D]o what you can to make the prose a little less stuffy and formal and mechanical; reduce some of the step-by-step stuff. Some of it helps the characterization, which is really good in general, but I think you have way more than you need.
Des:
I felt very confused in the whole scene that begins with discussing acting in the play. I had to read it several times to understand it. I think some of the confusion of the whole scene is the addition of characters that go nowhere in the story - Dave, Annette, Melissa, and even Desmond. Why do we need these names?
And I'm still not sure I understand this part:
"I got two playbills this evening," she'd said. The play had been a university production - theater arts hadn't owned it. And the University had maintained a print shop. Two playbills on one ticket hadn't been that much cheating. "I think that I will send one to my mom." And the playbill had included an excellent (if small) photo of him.
"How you communicate with your parents is your decision."
Well, John has a point, but not one which can be fixed. A conflict isn't something you can put in a story at the final revision.
I have to look at that scene Des cites again. I wanted that to be plausible. If the costar gives the star of the college show a ride, it isn't the only ride offered.
Kim is telling her parents that the nice guy she's already written about to them is Black. The picture is how she does it. I might have been too subtle in that part of the scene.
Uther Pendragon FAQs http://www.nyx.net/~anon584c [email protected] fiqshn http://www.asstr.org/~Uther_Pendragon
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: FishTank, by Uther Pendragon
Date: Sat, 17 Aug 2002 20:41:56 -0600
On 17 Aug 2002 12:26:23 -0600, Uther Pendragon <[email protected]> wrote:
The unobjective issue of beauty is quite good as well. I'd think that maybe Kim would have grown used to that, but I've noticed that the denial of "most beautiful girl in the world" (or hottest guy) remains common, an ordinary thing no matter how often your love says it.
I think Jeff gets closer to the facts. John sees Kim as beautiful. Kim doesn't. What woman sees herself as beautiful? (Now, I'll admit that John uses "beautiful" as an intensifier of "pretty" or even "attractive.")
Both men and women call their lovers beautiful. Or perhaps handsome, but in any case, it is one compliment which is very hard to take well. I know I'm not that good loking. I can see flaws here and there, and should I have a momentary lapse of humility and decide that I really am the hottest guy around, someone is going to remind me that I'm not. At least, I hope so - the ego trip thing isn't my style.
Anyway, I've often seen that sort of thing. A bit easier to see it when someone else does it. A friend calls her lover beautiful, and he goes on with the "I'm not, don't say that" sort of routine. But of course, he does the same to her :-)
The story caught that situation nicely. It is hard to illustrate it more explicitly, that love really does make your lover beautiful, that objective "beauty contest" trophies are irrelevant if there is no one who says "You're beautiful, my love."
3 Contraception.
Des:
One other thing that baffled me is why after 15 years they're still using birth control and not had any other children. It seems to me that this loving couple would have either had more children and were done, or they were still trying.
JZ:
Of things to notice, I liked the handling of birth control. Both the first time failure, and the casual continuing habit. I have to admit that relying on non-mechanical methods means we don't need to think about those things, but a lot of people do, married or otherwise. So it is nice to see it handled well in the story.
Well, there are several choices: Be fertile, have a vasectomy or have the woman's tubes tied, use the pill, use the diaphragm and jelly. I very much doubt that any of these choices are rare among the couples in the situation of John and KIm. Remember that Kim works (secretarial spread comes from sitting in a chair all day); do they want to add the cost of another child to the diminished income from Kim's earliest maternity period?
I'll admit that I just wanted to have them conscious of the problems that a teenager adds to one's sex life.
Of the common ones used, the diaphram/cap or condom are a bit more intrusive in use, though practice it is like any habit. Do it a lot, and it turns ordinary.
Quit doing it, as we've done, and it is more noticeable. Of course, we know that something has been done to take care of the situation. It just needs no attention during the action.
4 Des. - The daughter, with two 'e's. DesdEmona.
JZ:
The daughter Des, though, is a bit more of a mystery. Her parents seem clueless about her, and maybe vice versa (is she guessing that they are going to spend the day "doing it"? How does she feel about that?)
On a personal note, it makes me wonder how I'll deal with a daughter of 14 going on 15, hanging around with boys and making her own way in life. This summer, I have two incidental things
The next section deals with other comments on the daughter.
I think that Jeff was rather precocious in that regard. OTOH, on reading this comment and thinking about it the story might be more believable set a year earlier. Their 14th anniversary, she's 13 1/2.
Perhaps I was :-) No, it really is that teens mature at different rates, and while a 14/15 yo is probably thinking about boys, the thoughts may have little to do with sex.
At least, openly. Certainly, being embarrassed about talking about sex with parents can be hard to avoid, unless the parents are open about it and have been for a long while. So while maybe Des could be younger, a bit more background on her girlishness or coyness might make her age of 14 more believable. Still, if she is having a boyfriend, and maybe kissing, it is hard to see where some "love life" talks might not have happened.
As for guessing that her parents were going to spend the day "doing it," the ability of kids to ignore the sexual nature of their parents is often impressive. Not always, I'll grant. But considering that they are evidence that their parents had a sex life, considering how many families keep BC pills in plain sight, the ability of kids to ignore the evidence often astounds me.
Sometimes, yes. But whether they really don't know, that is another matter. In a related thing, I was writing a bit about my discovery that Santa Claus isn't real (or so my Dad said, but I figured he was only kidding ;-). Knowing a bit more of the "facts of life" makes a lot of memories make sense. You still might not want to visualize your parents doing it, but it can be hard to ignore that it happens.
And I'm still not sure I understand this part:
"I got two playbills this evening," she'd said. The play had been a university production - theater arts hadn't owned it. And the University had maintained a print shop. Two playbills on one ticket hadn't been that much cheating. "I think that I will send one to my mom." And the playbill had included an excellent (if small) photo of him.
"How you communicate with your parents is your decision."
Well, John has a point, but not one which can be fixed. A conflict isn't something you can put in a story at the final revision.
I have to look at that scene Des cites again. I wanted that to be plausible. If the costar gives the star of the college show a ride, it isn't the only ride offered.
Kim is telling her parents that the nice guy she's already written about to them is Black. The picture is how she does it. I might have been too subtle in that part of the scene.
I think so. I wasn't sure that John was Black, even with the Othello typecasting clue. Or that Kim was white. I admit that to my thinking it doesn't matter, and you kind of have to bash me on the head with clues to see a racial issue in a story. We're of the generation and situation where it changed to be OK to date regardless of race, religion, culture, etc. - and the current generation seems to find it even less a worry. When I was a teen, there were still times and groups which made the issue seem a problem, but finding friends and family to support you wasn't hard either.
OTOH, that issue isn't all so relevant to the relationship itself. Happy marriage, nice child, and a family which seems to more or less get along, sans one sister.
OTGH, I do need to think about it, because I know I tend to be suble in revealing such important details as race, as well as other factors of appearance. If the issue didn't come up in conversation, why mention it in the story? The descriptions, those are good. I figure that skin tone is about as relevant as hair or eye color, but those do get mentioned from time to time in stories ;-)
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
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From: Uther Pendragon
Re: FishTank, by Uther Pendragon
Date: 12 Aug 2002 10:59:11 -0600
I don't intend to speak on the issues raised by readers until my time. However, I think I should give credit here to "Desert Don" for his raising the matter of Bettas (Siamese Fighting Fish) as the most erotic of fish. And to Ray for thinking up the entire anniversary program.
Uther Pendragon FAQs http://www.nyx.net/~anon584c [email protected] fiqshn http://www.asstr.org/~Uther_Pendragon