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From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 12:51:40 -0800
On 01 Apr 2002 16:06:18 GMT, [email protected] (Desdmona22) held forth, saying:
Checkmate
or
Le Chat a une Belle Queue
-Two things I liked:
Like every Twassel story I've read, there is more than one level to
this; I like the slow buildup of eroticism before Carol makes it overt
with the bishop.
I can identify a fair bit with the narrator - there were certainly lots of girls in my high school class who were way out of my league.
-Two things to improve:
"Sure," Carol said, "but your bishop might be mad. I like
that little dance he's doing. How much bigger can he can
get before he explodes."
- - I think there's an extra 'can' in that last sentence.
(so it's a repeat)
I'm with Sean; I'd like translations of the French - including the
secondary title.
All in all, a delightful, sexy tale. Gives me a whole new view of a chessboard ...
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: Valen Thyan
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 21:32:15 GMT
"Desdmona22" <[email protected]> wrote in message
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Positive Comments
1. The ending is perfect. It wraps up all the loose ends without talking
down to the reader.
2. I never thought of chess as sexual in any way. Very imaginative.
Improvements
1. She mentions the White Album and Back in the USSR plays, but Revolver was
the last album that was played .... unless it's a multidisc changer?
Hardcore Beatles fans care.
2. More Beatles references. (j-k)
Sometimes two isn't enough for positive comments and two is too much for improvements.
Valen
[email protected]
http://www.asstr.org/~valen/
From: Nick
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:51:41 GMT
Positive 1, a personal thing, perhaps, but the whole premise was exciting for me. I like the idea of playing a game of chess for a bet (certainly this kind of bet!), and you got the game structure in too.
Positive 2 It's nicely paced. I have a poor concentration span which sometimes leaves me wondering how we got to a given point in a story, but there was no such problem here.
Improver 1 Lacks subtlety. For example:
three and at seven. On eight she took my knight, allowing me her bishop. "You really didn't want that bishop," I said.
"Even when I was little there was something about them," Carol said.
"What?"
"I don't know. Maybe they look a bit too much like little boys' pee pees." She smiled at me and pointedly
She really didnt need to say that, in my view, but then it defined the way the story was going. From that point on she was overtly tryng to seduce him and I felt that this undermined the clever ending.
Improver 2
I suppose it follows on from the last point, but it seemed to me that
you were slotting a 'standard sex model' (I wouldnt quite say bimbo)
into a slightly awkward role, i.e. that of an expert chess player. I
felt you should have given her a more unique character. I may get into
trouble for saying this, but all the women I've come across who are
good at chess are very different from other women.
Still, I liked it.
Nick
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:26:35 -0500
On Mon, 01 Apr 2002 23:51:41 GMT, [email protected] (Nick) wrote:
Improver 2
I suppose it follows on from the last point, but it seemed to me that you were slotting a 'standard sex model' (I wouldnt quite say bimbo) into a slightly awkward role, i.e. that of an expert chess player. I felt you should have given her a more unique character. I may get into trouble for saying this, but all the women I've come across who are good at chess are very different from other women.
Probably, as some of them are rather hot. As are some of the guys who play chess. I think that the combination of city champ and sexy player is maybe a bit unlikely, but then we don't know how big the city is.
But I've known a fair number of chess players who were sexy, playfully open and seductive. Some also looked really beautiful, though of course my judgement is affected by contact. But some of my opponents in chess matches, who I never got to date, let alone see naked, were definitely hot in appearance and style.
One, not a city champ but a pretty good chess player and a fair match for me, would fit rather well into Carol's style. Except that she had guys - lots of them at times - chasing after her, which made the situation a bit more obvious than an aloof (not dating anyone else?) beauty would be.
Anyway, a really nice looking girl who dresses sexy but isn't out to pick up guys per se, and isn't dressing that way for her current lover, is somewhat unusual, isn't she?
Of course, maybe - in hindsight - she's wearing that outfit for him. We don't know whether she dresses like that all the time (like my chess playing match I mention earlier) or if it is something unusual for her.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Conjugate
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Mon, 1 Apr 2002 19:04:12 -0500
"Desdmona22" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
The following story is an adaptation of a previous story submitted to ASSM. It's a complete story that is 2,309 words. FishTank Guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
************************************************************** Checkmate or
Le Chat a une Belle Queue
By Mat Twassel
Lots of fun. Very nicely done, vivid imagery, good description. As to "things to improve," well, Yo no comprendo el French-o, dude, but somebody else already kvetched about translating, so I can't. I can't think of much else. Nice story.
Conjugate
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 20:18:30 -0500
On 01 Apr 2002 16:06:18 GMT, [email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote:
I liked Carol the chess player. She is smart and sexy, a combination which I adore. I love the whole seduction as a game, the way they play chess sensually. Of course, that is a nice thing about chess and other games, how it can turn into something entirely different in private than in public.
On the other hand, I'd like to know more about him. His name, maybe? Carol doesn't seem to use it at all. For that matter, he doesn't use her name. I don't know, that happens sometimes in conversations between familiar people, but it just feels a little odd.
He and Carol have obviously kept in friendly contact since high school, 10 years? or so ago. They are also members? of the same chess club. At least, I think it is a chess club, though maybe it is just a bar or other club where patrons play chess. It doesn't matter, maybe, but a big chunk of my chess playing experience was through the school clubs, and they were never quite that well set up for drinks after the game. Hmm, Carol is just making city championships now, rather than right out of high school? That's just wondering; USCF competition seems to be pretty strong in the college age groups and there are a lot of really hot players in most big cities, hard not to make a splash earlier if you're really good.
Anyway, back to the point. He hasn't played chess with her since high school, it seems, and yet he's hanging around the club. Is he playing someone else but not her there? The pickup is pretty casual, no introductions needed. They are obviously friends. But not so good of friends that he's ever driven her anywhere, so she hasn't seen his car before, or been to his place.
I know it is supposed to be a mystery of sorts, maybe, for why Carol decides to seduce him. But it is pretty obvious early on in the game, even at the start, that the bet is a matter of seduction either way. Once she gets naked, that outcome is pretty clear. But at the point of the bet, it seems like seduction both ways. She doesn't act like a girl betting sex for a car. It is still for fun, the game, with sexy undertones right from the start.
"That's the trouble, I do," she said. "It's so boring."
Typical talk from the pretty Carol Jemson. Okay, more than pretty - beautiful. Long lean figure. Flowing black hair. Dark expressive eyes. So proud. So confident. So out of my league. That didn't stop me from wanting her.
Here I think he doesn't say quite want he wants or thinks. She is confident and aloof, but he doesn't just want her. It is clear that he is pursuing her, hoping for a chess match. Why not a match at the club? I don't know, the going home and playing at his place thing is necessary for the tale, and she's obviously wanting to cooperate. Maybe "Meow" suggested a match at home?
I think he should say more than just that he wants her. Maybe that is setting up too much too early, but wanting suggests maybe something physical alone, not more than that. But I think he is hoping for much more than just a chess win, or even a nice night of hot sex.
Anyway, probably not an issue for the story but it is obvious that he wasn't out of her league. He's a nice guy and he drives a Jag. He is old enough that he probably didn't get it from his parents (who'd have to be pretty well off to give it away in any case). But even in high school, she'd paid attention to him, if not dated him. Chess clubs and matches allow for some chance for private get-togethers and conversation, even if it isn't quite a date. I don't know if he asked her out, but I suspect not. Probably followed her around like a puppy dog?
The casual way they go off together suggests the kind of familiarity which would make this adoration obvious. I mean that most women can tell when a guy is attracted to them, and she is dressed to get that kind of attention. She clearly wants to spend time with him, and he isn't shocked to death that his scheme to be with her, and get a chess match (was the bet part of the plan?) is going well.
Again, I don't know that it is wrong not to reveal some of this earlier, or foreshadow it. Or perhaps give away a bit of his giddiness or uncertain excitement now that he's finally got his long-desired "date."
I loved the ending. Subtle but obvious.
The use of French is rather interesting. I took it only in middle school and never learned a lot; it might not hurt to provide translations for the language impaired, as the meanings aren't really quite guessable for those unfamiliar with the language. And I think that it does help the tale to know what it means.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 01:21:23 GMT
Since Matt is gagged, I thought I'd try to elucidate the French:
Le Chat a une Belle Queue
The cat (male) has a beautiful tail.
Mise en bouteilles dans nos chais
A better-quality French wine might well have this (or something like it) on the cork. The two variants I've seen are:
"Mis en bouteilles dans nos chais" - literally and word-for-word, "put in bottles in our cellars"; or
"Mise en bouteille[s] dans nos chais" - "putting-in-bottle[s] in our cellars".
The tiny differences between these two phrases are probably not significant for a true appreciation of the story! - and may equally be translated "estate bottled".
"Taille unique ... Ajustements tout d'une taille."
One size only ... All fittings with one size - i.e. One size fits all.
O.
From: DrSpin
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 1 Apr 2002 20:22:44 -0800
In article <[email protected]>, oosh said ...
Since Matt is gagged, I thought I'd try to elucidate the French:
<snip>
"Taille unique ... Ajustements tout d'une taille."
One size only ... All fittings with one size - i.e. One size fits all.
The problem IMO is not so much the use of foreign language but the limitations of Usenet and the requirements of Courier 10 in text-only format. If Mat's evocative little story were published elsewhere, it would be possible to run some understated translation within the story without harming the the style or flow, probably through the use of italics.
For example:
Ajustements tout d'une taille. One size fits all.
(With the bit between the asterisks in italics.)
That seems to work, as long as there's not too much of it, and in Mat's story there's not too much. Just enough. Nice. I like it.
But it doesn't work with asterisks or with that other Usenet text vehicle, stuff. Both look ugly, and because they are usually employed for emphasis, it can lead to misleading.
But if Mat does not want to do translations, then I'm on his side. The use of sexy foreign language can be, and is in this case, delicious. French is sexy. Italian is also sexy. Spanish not so much but not so bad. German is awful.
One thing is certain. Do NOT link to the Google French translator. We have demonstrated in a previous thread that comic disaster ensues.
DrSpin
* also at [email protected] and at http://www.ruthiesclub.com
From: spd3432
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 22:00:58 -0800
On Tue, 02 Apr 2002 01:21:23 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
Since Matt is gagged, I thought I'd try to elucidate the French:
Thank you Oosh. I'd figured out the title, but the remainder eluded me.
Sean
From: Nicholas Urfe
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 2 Apr 2002 10:10:40 -0800
Checkmate.
First, of course, the yumminess of intellectual flirting. Always a plus, no matter what some Neanderthals in the popular culture might say about how smarts and repartee are stuffy nonsense and how you should free your ass before your brain.
Not just within the piece, of course: the piece itself flirts with us, or flirts with the idea of flirting with us. It's about one thing - look at the hand, look at the hand, so you don't see the other hand dipping briefly into the pocket to set up the punchline which settles with such aplomb, such deft grace in the very last word. Oh! you say, surprised, even as you say, of course. (D'oh! - though crude, is perhaps the best summation.)
That said:
First, I'd recommend losing the subtitle. It's too much of a clue. The immediate impulse, of course, is that most readers not knowing French will let it slide as something to look up later, but it risks alienating those who don't know French and tipping your hand to those who do - or who have a French dictionary on hand, or who are adept enough at puzzling out the original meaning from Babelfish silliness online. Cleverness - which is what this story is, and is about - should proceed with a light hand. Don't smack 'em till the last moment.
Now. We're going to go afield here a minute, because while I like this story well enough, I love the idea behind it. Mat - with some little work, you've got a brilliant and pointed give-and-take here on "the gender war," one clever enough by half that I'm tempted to file the serial numbers off and steal it myself.
The thing of it is that I know enough about chess to know that we're getting a sketch of the chess world, an impressionist portrait, a muzzy picture - and I want not necessarily more stuff, but more focus. More precision. I want this story to be told from more deeply within that world; I want to be in it - and if you aren't there already, Mat, then I want you to do the homework necessary to put us there. Not to be an expert - but an hour or so of reading on the web will give you verisimilitude to sprinkle throughout the story - like the actual name of a tournament, rather than "a tournament of the top players in the city." (You may be trying for a general feel, but the specific is always better than the general.) But - and more to the point -
What's Carol's chess ranking?
She's gonna know. The narrator's gonna know. And it's going to be important. See -
And this is not meant to disparage anyone who plays chess. Or all men who play chess. Or all women. But. From the women I've known who play chess at this sort of level (who are no more or less different from women qua women than any individual woman is; certainly, if one were to follow Kyle Baker's dictum, we'd expect a woman both smart and sexy to be screwed up self-esteem-wise, but Carol's something of a fantasy figure, and Baker's not necessarily right, and anyway, I'm losing my point), there's something of a fetish among men who play chess and date within that circle: they all want a girlfriend who's got as high a ranking as possible - yet NOT higher than their own.
When you look at it that way, the little battle of wills shifts subtly into a very interesting struggle for dominance; the flirtatious give-and-take takes on an added zing. The narrator, hardly "in her league" and not in this hothouse world at all, still wants to try and beat her on her own terms. Carol/Meow, amused, perhaps, by the flirtation and impressed by his dedication to her sphere, wants to help him "beat" her - but can't resist letting him know how and why he "won." Plus those snarky little indications that the narrator has become quite financially successful, and how this impresses Carol ... The stakes are a little uglier, a little more meaningful, and cut more closely to the bone - all to the good.
But: we're veering towards me nattering on about the story I want to read rather than the story Mat wrote, or wants to write. Less abstruse and closer to home: I'd recommend bringing Meow and Meow's chats with the narrator more into the story. Use those as a counterbalance to the very physical (and enjoyable) flirtation going on over the chessboard - but more to the point, get some more of Carol into the story thereby. It'll be a tricky game, but imagine the pleasure of hitting that last line as a reader and smacking your head and racing back to re-read the story understanding now that everything Meow said is something Carol said. - That, more than anything else, would be the improvement I'd recommend.
Also: word choice. The story as a whole takes on a high-minded tone - chess, fine wine, expensive cars and clothing, a generally edumacated palette/palate. To suddenly drop into a rather vulgar coinage such as "pussy fur" requires some intent or meaning behind the sudden dunking; I didn't see it. ("Pee pee," say, DID have an intent behind it; a rather impish one, but there is a reason.) - I just don't buy this is how the narrator refers to pubic hair. Not on someone like Carol, in a moment like that. Come up with something else.
But that's two pozzies and three neggies, so. I liked it! There.
Best,
- n.
"The lyrics for 'It's Not My Birthday' have defied simple interpretation, probably out of laziness on the part of its young author."
lazy is as lazy does:
http://www.asstr.org/~nickurfe/ift/
http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Vinnie Tesla
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 19:02:56 GMT
On Mon, 01 Apr 2002 21:32:15 GMT, quoth the "Valen Thyan" <[email protected]>:
2. I never thought of chess as sexual in any way. Very imaginative.
There goes a man who hasn't read enough Delta.
Yet.
http://www.asstr.org/~ASSHoF/#Delta
-Vinnie
[email protected]
http://www.asstr.org/~vinnie_tesla/
He polishes birds of the Vista
From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Tue, 02 Apr 2002 13:30:43 -0800
On 01 Apr 2002 16:06:18 GMT, [email protected] (Desdmona22) held forth, saying:
Checkmate
semi-OT comment:
There's a book titled Murder at the Chessboard - edited by "P.T.
Houdunitz"
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1579121624/ref%3Dbr%5Flf%5F/103-5186993-6301462
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 03:37:01 GMT
As usual, I probably won't fit Des's guidelines very exactly, but I hope that I shall obey the spirit, if not the letter, of the law.
My first comment is merely that: it's not a criticism, but an observation. Here we see a particular style of writing, done very well, in which most of the sentences are short - and some of them aren't sentences. It's a perfectly legitimate style, as legitimate as any other, and here I think it is well and gracefully done. I thought it impressive that despite working within what I'd think of as a restricted regime of sentence types, the language nevertheless flowed with good rhythm and poise.
At home I put on Revolver and opened the wine. "Nice pop," Carol said. She picked up the cork. "Mise en bouteilles dans nos chais," she read.
I'd make a new paragraph after "wine", since we have a change of subject. Then I'd be able to improve the flow a little with something like:
"Nice pop," she said [and could she raise an eyebrow here? Or just lean forward, maybe?]. She picked up the cork and peered at it, murmuring the words branded on it: "Mis en bouteilles dans nos chais."
I loved this:
"Just when we were getting comfy," Carol said. "Men."
It told me a lot about what was going on in her mind. It also rang true for me because I think that in real life, people will generally play in dialogue before they play physically. This little touch did a great deal to make the scene real for me. And the whole of the dialogue before the chess game was equally nicely done.
" ...How much bigger can he can get before he explodes.[?]"
In the dialogue, though, I did feel that there were too many "I said/she said" explications, too many of them a few words into the quoted speech. I know that some think that I don't put enogh of them into my own writing, and perhaps I'm being over-sensitive. At least, some of these could be changed, so that instead of just "I said" or "Carol said", we might have some kind of characteristic action - for example:
"Oh!" Carol put her hand to her mouth. "You startled me."
I find myself very tentatively wondering whether "Checkmate", with its connotation of finality, is quite right as the title of a story that feels more like a beginning than an end. Given the glorious playfulness of the piece, perhaps simply "Mate"? That would require a change in the first paragraph, but I'm not sure that Carol wouldn't want both syllables of "checkmate" anyway, to dismiss her first inept adversary.
I confess that it was not until Nicholas gently suggested it that I realized about Carol and Meow. I just wonder whether, without being too obvious about it, Matt should somehow insinuate that Carol is less than surprised by her adversary's competence. For her to say "Maybe I've underestimated you" made it difficult for me to see it, even when it was so beautifully spelled out.
I'm not sure about the music in this piece. If I were serious about either chess or seduction, I'd hate having music on, distracting me. But I expect that this is just my personal oddness getting in the way. Others may see what I miss: what the music adds to the development of the story.
I loved the atmosphere of gentle banter. Although I wouldn't say that two fully-rounded characters came bounding out of this story, I don't believe that it's reasonable or right to expect that from a piece of this length. What I did feel was that we were given a humorous and believable view of how two real people might react, with a sure-handed elegance and lightness of touch.
This story was crafted with wonderful care and ingenuity! I much admire it.
O.
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 03:39:18 GMT
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:3ca9151b$0$1427$272ea4a1 @news.execpc.com:
I loved the ending. Subtle but obvious.
Explain.
O.
From: a reader
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 2 Apr 2002 19:52:50 -0800
DrSpin <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
In article <[email protected]>, oosh said ...
Since Matt is gagged, I thought I'd try to elucidate the French:
<snip>
"Taille unique ... Ajustements tout d'une taille."
One size only ... All fittings with one size - i.e. One size fits all.
The problem IMO is not so much the use of foreign language but the limitations of Usenet and the requirements of Courier 10 in text-only format. If Mat's evocative little story were published elsewhere, it would be possible to run some understated translation within the story without harming the the style or flow, probably through the use of italics.
For example:
Ajustements tout d'une taille. One size fits all.
(With the bit between the asterisks in italics.)
That seems to work, as long as there's not too much of it, and in Mat's story there's not too much. Just enough. Nice. I like it.
But it doesn't work with asterisks or with that other Usenet text vehicle, stuff. Both look ugly, and because they are usually employed for emphasis, it can lead to misleading.
But if Mat does not want to do translations, then I'm on his side. The use of sexy foreign language can be, and is in this case, delicious. French is sexy. Italian is also sexy. Spanish not so much but not so bad. German is awful.
One thing is certain. Do NOT link to the Google French translator. We have demonstrated in a previous thread that comic disaster ensues.
DrSpin
* also at [email protected] and at http://www.ruthiesclub.com
How about a glossary at the end? With a note at the beginning that it exists. Footnotes would be ideal but too obtrusive with the usual type faces used.
From: Valen Thyan
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 04:07:12 GMT
"DrSpin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
The problem IMO is not so much the use of foreign language but the limitations of Usenet and the requirements of Courier 10 in text-only format. If Mat's evocative little story were published elsewhere, it would be possible to run some understated translation within the story without harming the the style or flow, probably through the use of italics.
<snip>
In the published material that I've read containing foreign language no help is offered for those who don't understand the language.
I figure it's like using 'big words.' If the reader isn't familiar with the language/term/word/etc. then perhaps having in the story will encourage them to broaden their horizons. Either way, the french used in this story is more to add elegance (I think) and what's actually said in french doesn't matter (as much).
Valen
[email protected]
http://www.asstr.org/~valen/
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 04:57:35 GMT
"Valen Thyan" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
In the published material that I've read containing foreign language no help is offered for those who don't understand the language.
That is changing.
...Either way, the french used
in this story is more to add elegance (I think) and what's actually said in french doesn't matter (as much).
We must always be careful about what matters in a story. I'd say that the meaning of the French matters here.
O.
From: jane
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 2 Apr 2002 23:53:09 -0800
can i get my niggling out of the way first ...
Hold this." She gave me her handbag ... I was still holding her bag when we reached my car.
i found this odd on both their parts ... why would she ... why would he ... except of course to illustrate their dom-sub "roles" ... no doubt its the somewhat alien environment of bars and bags that threw me, but having had little time to get to know carol or her narrator, it seemed more an illustration than an act ... theres no reason that the story has to stand a test of being "real" but, i think, the further one gets from realism in a seduction, the more one risks "o please, please have your way with me" ... i wish this was a nit-pick.
"You want to bet?"
"Bet? What kind of bet?"
although the poor narrator is being set up, isnt this the gambit of the story ... the offhand comment with two slightly different meanings, one of which is the bait, then the acceptance of the bait ... all done in under ten words ... more than an opportunity missed, the omitted jigging of the hook by both the huntress and the hunter makes the whole turning point less a ploy and more a blink before the sex ...
i think there are other examples of where scenes and characters might have been given more dimension to heighten the reality of the seduction ... but perhaps ive said too much already on reality.
"Not hopelessly," I said, and I removed my underwear. "Mm," Carol said. "Nice bishop."
and now the good ... i did really like the sex [even if thats somehow a contradiction] ... the prospect of playing any game in the nude with a semi-stranger is exhilarating ... if its going to be a dream, then, lets pull out the stops ... its sweet; its fun; its happy .... and i must say ive suddenly taken an interest in those chess sets based on long and slender cylinders ...
"Not 'vum'? Lower than that? How about 'xum.'"
and in the same vein, i like the playfulness of the language ... in spite of the francias and the chess lingo, the story was eminently readable ... no matter that zum never got there or was superseded by xum, yum was the perfect place to end ... i argued with mats language for half the story first time through, finding a spelling error or a contraction that wasnt where id like it, the french, the cunts [a word im never fond of] and all that argument rang hollow ... what matters most is how it rolled off the tongue in harmony with the lightness of the story ... nice touch ... well done! bravo!
jane
From: Bradley Stoke
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 3 Apr 2002 00:53:21 -0800
Mat Twassel
Mat has set himself quite a challenge in this delicate and uplifting tale of seduction. I particularly liked the parallel between the chess moves and the more subtle moves required to achieve the final seduction. Who is seducing whom? Only the last sentence makes this clear.
Although I agree with another author that having the Beatles playing while engrossed in a game of chess is a little unlikely, it's a very subtle way of betraying the relatively mature age of the two characters and it gives an area of shared interest. And why not have a discussion of the Beatles? It gives extra colour to a story that could so easily be stripped down to nothing more than a parallel dialogue between the gradual movement towards the story's sexual resolution and the strangely unresolved chess game.
I disagree strongly that there should be some kind of glossary at the end of the story. Translating any language from one to another loses far too much to make the glossary helpful. And, anyway, a good story is complete without such nonsense.
I loved the interlocking strands, the delicate subtle pace, and above all the fact that it is actually that rare thing on ASSM, an erotic story.
If I have any criticism it is probably the opposite of many other reviewers, which is that Mat sometimes appears to pander to some readers' need to explain things when the showing is more than adequate. We didn't need to know that the protagonist read about Carol's love of the Beatles in the local paper, for instance. We don't really need translations from the French. But this is so minor as to be hardly worth saying.
And the title. "Checkmate"? Doesn't the game come to a draw? (Although "Draw" is an ambiguous title. And "A Game of Chess Ending in a Draw" is one of the crappiest titles in the world).
Well done.
Bradley Stoke
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 06:10:32 -0600
On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 03:39:18 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:3ca9151b$0$1427$272ea4a1 @news.execpc.com:
I loved the ending. Subtle but obvious.
Explain.
It wasn't blatant or pushy, but neither did it take more than a moment to get it. The alternative would be subtle and devious or clandestine, where you'd need to think quite a while before you figured it out.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: sue
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 3 Apr 2002 07:58:12 -0800
"Valen Thyan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<zl4q8.405808
2. I never thought of chess as sexual in any way. Very imaginative.
Didn't see The Thomas Crown Affair with Steve McQueen and Faye Dunaway?
Check it out.
sue
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 06:30:31 -0600
On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 04:57:35 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
"Valen Thyan" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
In the published material that I've read containing foreign language no help is offered for those who don't understand the language.
That is changing.
A lot of material includes references when neither context nor easy external references (a common dictionary, for example, can be expected for ordinary words, or a technical one for technical material intended for a specific field - whose members should know the terms, or at least how to look them up).
Something for a general audience needs references, and on the web it routinely has it. In publications, I've seen glossaries or other methods of reference used often enough to find it conventional.
...Either way, the french used
in this story is more to add elegance (I think) and what's actually said in french doesn't matter (as much).
We must always be careful about what matters in a story. I'd say that the meaning of the French matters here.
Yes, the meanings make you wonder, especially as both characters do understand the language (he apparently somewhat less so, but 1 year of a language (?) isn't a lot in most high schools).
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Jim Butterfield
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Wed, 03 Apr 2002 20:49:28 GMT
On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 03:37:01 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote, in part:
I confess that it was not until Nicholas gently suggested it that I realized about Carol and Meow.
Yes! As the title hints, maybe they're the same person! (Meow working through an internet relay) ...
And Carol indicates that she knows the strategy with which her opponent has been coached: "The game could still go either way. Who knows, you might get too greedy. You might blow it."
Yeah Carol! Yeah Matt! What other subtleties might also be lying in wait for a reread?
Good story: the story flows nicely, the characters appeal, the ending has a light touch.
Weaknesses: slight. The first meeting is odd, and doesn't quite ring true. She swivels a quarter of an inch to the right towards him, he offers to buy her a drink? No first names, yet they've known each other from high school? Is this a first meeting after some lapse of time, or do both of them regularly hang around the chess-playing bar? I'd like to have the stage set better for this little interaction.
The hint seems strong that Carol and Meow are <possibly> the same person; but could we hear more about the faceless Meow? "Meow had done a detailed analysis of Carol's strategies and the best ways to counter them." ... why? Who initiated this interaction, and with what motivation?
But an vignette can sometimes be better than an odyssey, and Matt's story holds up well as a brilliant and elegant piece of writing.
Oh, yeah, the French .. sure, tack translations on as a footnote for those who need 'em .. it will set them up for a reread.
- j
- - -= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News = - - - http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! - - -== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! = - - -
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 04 Apr 2002 00:19:33 GMT
Denny already provided a link to "Strip Chess" by Delta (another of my innumerable favorites).
Others paraised and panned the French, which I found delightful as it stood, and more delightful once my translation was confirmed (and corrected.)
I have no improvements to the text. I can't wait to see it rendered in HTML, which permits several methods of imbedding or footnoting translations. Either way, I enjoyed the story.
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die. It's not within their scope."
I have never done that before.
I didn't do it this time.
And I'll never do it again.
(And this time, I mean it!)
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 04 Apr 2002 05:54:12 GMT
pawnography
<giggle>
<snort gasp>
<chortle>
<guffaw>
<wipe teears>
Oosh for queen!
Gary Jordan
"Old submariners never die. It's not within their scope."
I have never done that before.
I didn't do it this time.
And I'll never do it again.
(And this time, I mean it!)
From: Valen Thyan
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 12:06:00 GMT
"oosh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
"Valen Thyan" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
2. I never thought of chess as sexual in any way. Very imaginative.
Shows how much pawnography you read.
O.
Hehe.
Touch�, mais ce ne peut pas �tre tout ce que vous avez? Apportez-le. :)
Valen
[email protected]
http://www.asstr.org/~valen/
From: Vinnie Tesla
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 18:07:55 GMT
On 04 Apr 2002 00:19:33 GMT, quoth the [email protected] (Gary Jordan):
Denny already provided a link to "Strip Chess" by Delta (another of my innumerable favorites).
Oh, did he?
-Vinnie
[email protected]
http://www.asstr.org/~vinnie_tesla/
He polishes birds of the Vista
From: Vinnie Tesla
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 18:09:19 GMT
On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 02:44:24 GMT, quoth the oosh <[email protected]>:
The way that I've now used in /Pavlova/ IIIb is to have a translation "pop up" when you hover your mouse cursor over the French, <span lang="FR" title="for want of anything better">faute de mieux</span>.
That's a very good idea, but I wonder if some visual indication that it's text worth mousing over isn't a good idea - perhaps a subtle color change.
-Vinnie
[email protected]
http://www.asstr.org/~vinnie_tesla/
He polishes birds of the Vista
From: Lisala
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 10:36:47 -0800
In article <[email protected]>, Vinnie Tesla <[email protected]> wrote:
That's a very good idea, but I wonder if some visual indication that it's text worth mousing over isn't a good idea - perhaps a subtle color change.
The academic web convention for glossed words is to use italics, and to have a note at the start indicating that glosses are thus identified.
The reason a color change is not preferred is that avoiding the colors that are problems for color blind users severely reduces the palette and one then has to deal with aesthetics.
From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 01:48:35 -0800
On 04 Apr 2002 00:19:33 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) held forth, saying:
Denny already provided a link to "Strip Chess" by Delta (another of my innumerable favorites)
I 'preciate the credit; but 'twas Vinnie who did that.
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 01:52:09 -0800
On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 02:57:35 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> held forth, saying:
"Valen Thyan" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
2. I never thought of chess as sexual in any way. Very imaginative.
Shows how much pawnography you read.
O.
kitten
wipewipewipe
Have a kiss.
8
8 8 8
8
888
88888
8888888
888888
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 12:13:38 -0800
On 4 Apr 2002 05:45:59 -0800, [email protected] (Selena Jardine) held forth, saying:
That's a prejudice of mine, brought on by having to go, hat in hand, to my father and ask him what "Placetne, magistra" meant when I read Dorothy Sayers' Gaudy Night.
Certainly Sayers and Christie (and, I suspect, most other English writers of that time) assumed their readers to be conversant with French and often Latin. But both usually supply translations of German.
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 12:18:07 -0800
On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 13:34:16 GMT, [email protected] (Jim Butterfield) held forth, saying:
On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 02:48:28 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
Then perhaps it should be "La Chatte ..."
ROTFL!
(For non-French-speakers, "chatte" means not only female cat, but also "pussy" in both senses of the word).
- j
Thank you - I for one didn't know that.
Welcome to the Funhouse!
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 21:58:12 GMT
"Valen Thyan" <[email protected]> wrote in news:IkXq8.10837$f4.805350 @news3.calgary.shaw.ca:
Touch�, mais ce ne peut pas �tre tout ce que vous avez? Apportez-le. :)
Peut-�tre que j'en ai un peu plus. Mais les parties d'�checs ne m'amusent pas. Je me d�die au jeu de dames.
Et ne songe pas � m'emprunter ce titre-l� - Jeu de Dames - je le r�serve � moi!
O.
From: Valen Thyan
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 23:39:25 GMT
"oosh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
"Valen Thyan" <[email protected]> wrote in news:IkXq8.10837$f4.805350 @news3.calgary.shaw.ca:
Touch�, mais ce ne peut pas �tre tout ce que vous avez? Apportez-le. :)
Peut-�tre que j'en ai un peu plus. Mais les parties d'�checs ne m'amusent pas. Je me d�die au jeu de dames.
Et ne songe pas � m'emprunter ce titre-l� - Jeu de Dames - je le r�serve � moi!
O.
D'accord, c'est la votre.
Valen
[email protected]
http://www.asstr.org/~valen/
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 19:47:15 -0600
On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 02:47:05 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:3caaf38a$0$35567$272ea4a1 @news.execpc.com:
On Wed, 03 Apr 2002 03:39:18 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:3ca9151b$0$1427$272ea4a1 @news.execpc.com:
I loved the ending. Subtle but obvious.
Explain.
It wasn't blatant or pushy, but neither did it take more than a moment to get it. The alternative would be subtle and devious or clandestine, where you'd need to think quite a while before you figured it out.
Obvious, now you've explained it!
Maybe there is a trick to spotting the things? It is like not getting puns or other inside jokes right off, but you laugh later when you realize?
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Conjugate
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 22:26:50 -0500
"oosh" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
"Valen Thyan" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
2. I never thought of chess as sexual in any way. Very imaginative.
Shows how much pawnography you read.
O.
My goodness, you're on a roll lately. Are you in a particularly good mood of late, or is there some other reason?
Conjugate
just being nosy again
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 21:49:37 GMT
[email protected] (Vinnie Tesla) wrote in news:[email protected]:
On Thu, 04 Apr 2002 02:44:24 GMT, quoth the oosh <[email protected]>:
The way that I've now used in /Pavlova/ IIIb is to have a translation "pop up" when you hover your mouse cursor over the French, <span lang="FR" title="for want of anything better">faute de mieux</span>.
That's a very good idea, but I wonder if some visual indication that it's text worth mousing over isn't a good idea - perhaps a subtle color change.
Yes. I use italic for foreign languages, and I put an explanatory note to guide the reader that if she sees a word she doesn't understand, she should just hover her mouse over it.
O.
From: Gary Jordan
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 04 Apr 2002 23:53:11 GMT
Denny corrected (so did Vinnie):
[email protected] (Gary Jordan)
held forth, saying:
Denny already provided a link to "Strip Chess" by Delta (another of my innumerable favorites)
I 'preciate the credit; but 'twas Vinnie who did that.
Zut! Alors. C'est la vie.
Pardonez moi, Mssr.Vinnie.
Gary Jordan
Les vieux marins submersibles ne meurent pas. Ils courent pr�cipitamment
environ sournoisement.
(Blame Google if it makes no sense.)
From: celia batau
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 4 Apr 2002 21:07:18 -0800
hi Mat!
we liked the story. :) bc of the lightness of the story, it is very difficult for us to put it into a pozzie and neggie list. but with that in mind, we have the following.
"Desdmona22" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
pozzie one: the lightness. like one of those whipped egg white pastries that tastes good even though there's not much to it but you don't care. :)
pozzie two: the ability to make entertaining and engaging the rather dull activities of chess, wine, and beatles. (no, she's not philistine. byzantine. :)
neggie one. the sentence structure was mostly the same, even though it worked. not much of a neggie, but it was something that kept us aware that we were reading a story.
neggie two: we couldn't understand why Carol wanted him. cute nerd who follows this aloof woman around for ten years, then when he finally gets the courage to ask he gets kind of herded and conquered. we're with Jimmy Bot. we're just a machine. don't understand these human things.
yay M-A-T! yay!
-celia
celia batau's story site: http://www.myplanet.net/pinataheart/stories.htm.
I retch pity, feed on
the hate in their minds.
They look through me.
Stone under the lids of
my eyes. A laughing girl
I am not.
-mkdancer
From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 01:30:26 -0800
On 04 Apr 2002 23:53:11 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) held forth, saying:
(Blame Google if it makes no sense.)
Why? It's so much more fun to twit you for again making no sense. :)
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:11:11 GMT
"Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
My goodness, you're on a roll lately.
Just mildly cyclothymic, I'm told, but well within the normal range. (Sounds pretty authoritative, doesn't it?)
Spring is in the air!
O.
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:13:30 GMT
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
Obvious, now you've explained it!
Maybe there is a trick to spotting the things? It is like not getting puns or other inside jokes right off, but you laugh later when you realize?
I'm reminded of a story told to me long ago about a maths lecturer who covered the blackboard with some very dense formula, and then turned to his audience with the words "I take it that's obvious so far?" He then turned back to the board and checked over the formula. Then he walked out of the lecture-room scratching his head. Half an hour later he reappeared and said, "Yes, it is obvious."
O.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 08:54:54 -0600
On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:13:30 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
Obvious, now you've explained it!
Maybe there is a trick to spotting the things? It is like not getting puns or other inside jokes right off, but you laugh later when you realize?
I'm reminded of a story told to me long ago about a maths lecturer who covered the blackboard with some very dense formula, and then turned to his audience with the words "I take it that's obvious so far?" He then turned back to the board and checked over the formula. Then he walked out of the lecture-room scratching his head. Half an hour later he reappeared and said, "Yes, it is obvious."
Makes sense to me :-)
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Selena Jardine
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 5 Apr 2002 06:08:19 -0800
[email protected] (Desdmona22) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
Our FishTank schedule looks like this:
April 1: Mat Twassel
April 8: Nick Cassandra
April 15: Open
The following story is an adaptation of a previous story submitted to ASSM. It's a complete story that is 2,309 words. FishTank Guidelines apply:
1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!
Any questions can be directed to me at [email protected].
Submissions and comments are being stored at:
http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base
************************************************************** Checkmate or
Le Chat a une Belle Queue
By Mat Twassel
I'm getting my comments in so late this time that it's hard not to repeat, so I'll try to be careful, and just add my usual nitpicks and nice moments.
Nitpicks:
1) I would really like to see more of Carol in between nasty-aloof and drunk-seductive. From what we see of her, it's hard to decide why the narrator wants her, besides her physical attributes: she smirks, she insults him (Daddy's Jag, bad chess), she's bored with the Whole Thing. You tell us that the two of them talk about the past, have a good time talking, but you don't show us. Show us. Otherwise the "forever" at the end jars pretty seriously.
2) Why on earth does Carol get in the back of the car? This seems unnatural to me. If she does it, you might mention that it's not what ordinary people do when two adults are riding in the car together; the narrator would surely feel she was trying to put him at a disadvantage, maintain her aloofness, something.
Nice moments:
1) I like that "Back in the USSR" is playing early in the evening. Nice hint that Carol is Meow, his "Russian" friend. Enriches re-reading.
2) I liked the use of the low table to put Carol at a slight disadvantage. Through the whole story to that point, the advantage had been hers; then her dress, which had been her weapon, became difficult for her as well. Very nicely observed.
Thanks, Mat!
Selena
[email protected]
From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 13:19:39 -0800
On Fri, 05 Apr 2002 12:13:30 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> held forth, saying:
Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
Obvious, now you've explained it!
Maybe there is a trick to spotting the things? It is like not getting puns or other inside jokes right off, but you laugh later when you realize?
I'm reminded of a story told to me long ago about a maths lecturer who covered the blackboard with some very dense formula, and then turned to his audience with the words "I take it that's obvious so far?" He then turned back to the board and checked over the formula. Then he walked out of the lecture-room scratching his head. Half an hour later he reappeared and said, "Yes, it is obvious."
There's also a scene in The Number of the Beast ... where one character, speaking of her physicist, polymath father, says (roughly), "When he starts in with 'It then becomes obvious that ...' I know it's time for me to leave." ('she,' btw is a genius in her own right; but not one of the very few mathematicians who can deal with her father's math.)
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: PleaseCain
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 05 Apr 2002 22:47:09 GMT
Nice, nice, indeed. Pretty ending, mouthwatering descriptions (i.e., her wrist, her nipples) and some sustained romantic tension, full of playfulness and fun. My favorite part of the story though is her. Clever, sexy, haughty, a unique and delicious minx. Her purse, her body, her self-confidence. You could easily base more stories on her. In fact, I would encourage it!
But the introduction strikes me as all wrong. The wrong tone and set-up for the rest of the piece. He is drippy and timid enough to believe that he has observed her tactics and digested her game without being noticed. This is unlikely enough, but then we discover that he is a 28-year-old who owns a Jaguar, two characteristics that don't speak humble to me. None of this squares, it's too disparate: he is as oblique as she is vivid. Yet somehow, she is attracted to him. Fair enough, author's prerogative, but I was two-thirds of the way through before I had shelved my disbelief and allowed myself to enjoy the unfolding moments. Perhaps tinker with the beginning, bring it up to the rest of what is otherwise a wonderfully romantic story?
The wager reminds me of a Mae West movie, where she makes the same bet over a game of dice with a tycoon. Paraphrasing:
Man: Let me get this straight. If you win, you get my ranch?
MW: Right.
Man: And if I win?
MW: I get everything.
Now, what's her number again? I'm afraid I've been a very naughty boy.
Cain
From: Nick
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 00:40:09 GMT
On 04 Apr 2002 05:54:12 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote:
Oosh for queen!
Actually, a vacancy has recently arisen ...
Nick
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:10:30 GMT
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3cae43be.6477545 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
On 04 Apr 2002 05:54:12 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote: Oosh for queen!
Actually, a vacancy has recently arisen ...
What a very male perspective!
O.
From: Conjugate
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:24:12 -0500
"Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
On 04 Apr 2002 05:54:12 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote: Oosh for queen!
Actually, a vacancy has recently arisen ...
Nick
Erm, technically that's a vacancy in the office of Queen Mother, and not HRM, right? I'm not sure Oosh would fit in as Queen Mother. ICOCBW.
Conjugate
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:15:55 GMT
Subject: Re: {ASSD} FishTank # 34 Checkmate Newsgroups: Magpie:alt.sex.stories.d To: Selena Jardine <[email protected]>
[email protected] (Selena Jardine) wrote in news:[email protected]:
2) Why on earth does Carol get in the back of the car? This seems unnatural to me. If she does it, you might mention that it's not what ordinary people do when two adults are riding in the car together; the narrator would surely feel she was trying to put him at a disadvantage, maintain her aloofness, something.
Nice moments:
1) I like that "Back in the USSR" is playing early in the evening. Nice hint that Carol is Meow, his "Russian" friend. Enriches re-reading.
Some very astute comments, Selena - as ever!
I apologize for coming back for a second bite of the cherry like this, but I wanted to hazard a further thought. Tell me to shut up if I'm wrong.
A lot of the fun in this story is a chess-like puzzle - the identification of Carol with Meow - but it's very carefully concealed from us. We really need a committee of commentators to unearth the clues.
I don't decry this for a second; and in the context of a chess-game, it's more than fair enough.
I'm just wondering if what we're seeing here is a kind of coyness: that if there is a "hidden level", it has to be hidden so damn well that we can never be entirely sure we've got it right.
I suppose I'm harking back to my earlier rant about mystery and puzzle. Here we have puzzle.
O.
From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 6 Apr 2002 02:42:18 -0800
[email protected] wrote in message news:
There's also a scene in "The Number of the Beast ..." where one character, speaking of her physicist, polymath father, says (roughly), "When he starts in with 'It then becomes obvious that ...' I know it's time for me to leave." ('she,' btw is a genius in her own right; but not one of the very few mathematicians who can deal with her father's math.)
"Few?" It's been a while since I read that book, but IIRC there was
exactly one other mathematician who could really understand what Jake
Burroughs was talking about, and he was from a different worldline:
Andrew Jackson Libby. (Of course, "he" had been reborn as a she,
Libby Long, by the time she and Dr. Burroughs met. That was arguably
Heinlein's weirdest book.)
Later,
Jacques
From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 03:24:21 -0800
On 6 Apr 2002 02:42:18 -0800, [email protected] (Jacques LeBlanc) held forth, saying:
[email protected] wrote in message news:
There's also a scene in "The Number of the Beast ..." where one character, speaking of her physicist, polymath father, says (roughly), "When he starts in with 'It then becomes obvious that ...' I know it's time for me to leave." ('she,' btw is a genius in her own right; but not one of the very few mathematicians who can deal with her father's math.)
"Few?" It's been a while since I read that book, but IIRC there was exactly one other mathematician who could really understand what Jake Burroughs was talking about, and he was from a different worldline: Andrew Jackson Libby. (Of course, "he" had been reborn as a she, Libby Long, by the time she and Dr. Burroughs met. That was arguably Heinlein's weirdest book.)
Well, there was Zeb's relative (who was killed 'offstage') and of course there was "Dr. N. O. Brain" - and I seem to recall mention of a Finnish mathematician Jake considered a peer.
I dunno if 'Number' is his weirdest; my nomination for that would go to 'Job' - but 'Number' certainly seems to be the one which elicits the strongest reactions. I love it - but many, including a lot of RAH's fans, really dislike the Hell out of it. (I can NOT read the passage where Zeb learns Deety's real name without audibly chuckling)
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: Nick
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:42:11 GMT
On Fri, 5 Apr 2002 20:24:12 -0500, "Conjugate" <[email protected]> wrote:
"Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ... On 04 Apr 2002 05:54:12 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote: Oosh for queen!
Actually, a vacancy has recently arisen ...
Nick
Erm, technically that's a vacancy in the office of Queen Mother, and not HRM, right? I'm not sure Oosh would fit in as Queen Mother. ICOCBW.
Conjugate
Well, that would be a bit much wouldn't it. It's a foot in the door though, although a little reverse manoeuvreing would have to be .
I wonder what the Chelsea Pensioners would make of having a lesbian Queen other. She'd have more miles on the clock, but I'm not sure that would swing it.
Nick
From: Nick
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 23:41:35 GMT
On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 12:35:55 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:42:11 GMT, [email protected] (Nick) held forth, saying:
Chelsea Pensioners
??????????
Oh dear. I thought I knew the answer to this one, but I'm actually not quite sure. The Chelsea Pensioners (I beieve) are a group of war veterans (I think primarily WW1, but maybe WW2 as well, since there aren't many WW1 pensioners left). Either way (again, so I believe) they have strong associations with the Queen Mother. Perhaps Oosh could help me out here (as prospective Queen Mother, she's bound to know!)
Nick
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:33:09 GMT
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3cb08683.33569700 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 12:35:55 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:42:11 GMT, [email protected] (Nick) held forth, saying:
Chelsea Pensioners ??????????
Oh dear.
The Chelsea Pensioners are indeed war veterans. They live in a lovely big house near the Thames in Chelsea. Chelsea has nothing to do with Clinton: it's a quiet little village in the London area where, incidentally, Mozart spent a pleasant year aged about 7-8. It's still quite quiet and pleasant there, beside the river, between about four and five in the morning, and at other times if you're stone deaf and can't hear the roaring traffic. The pensioners wear splendid scarlet capes and black hats, and we're immensely proud of them. They tap-tap around the grounds with their walking-sticks and zimmer frames. The Queen Mother used to pop in occasionally, pat them on the back and generally kick them around a bit. Keeps the old circulation going, you know.
O.
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:20:43 GMT
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3caf0857.1265086 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
I wonder what the Chelsea Pensioners would make of having a lesbian Queen other.
That should, of course, be "Queen Other". Well, far be it from me to step into the breach.
O.
From: Nick
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:44:34 GMT
On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:10:30 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3cae43be.6477545 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
On 04 Apr 2002 05:54:12 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote: Oosh for queen!
Actually, a vacancy has recently arisen ...
What a very male perspective!
It's such a male perspective that I don't even understand what you can mean.
Nick
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:18:59 GMT
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3cb0093f.1496497 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:10:30 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3cae43be.6477545 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
On 04 Apr 2002 05:54:12 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote: Oosh for queen!
Actually, a vacancy has recently arisen ...
What a very male perspective!
It's such a male perspective that I don't even understand what you can mean.
"Vacancy" means "emptiness". It's difficult to see how it could "arise".
Would it sound so very odd if I were to say "a vacancy opened up ..."?
O.
From: Mat Twassel
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 06 Apr 2002 18:55:54 GMT
"Checkmate" was based upon and inspired by a story by Sean Ng. http://assm.asstr.org/Year2002/35773 A review by Tainted Lime led me to Sean's work - and how could I resist checking out something by someone named Ng? The Ng sisters, Tammy and Deidre, are way up on my list of favorite sex story writers. In his review of Sean's "Checkmate," Tainted Lime says that the story needs to be cleaned up, so that's what I set out to do - initially, as a lark, I suppose; but two sentences into the task my muse veered. I should note that another TL comment had to do with Sean Ng's first language likely not being English - I think that led me to use the bits of foreign tongue as a sort of plot device. Does it work? Is it too much of an inconvenience? I really don't think the reader needs to know French for the story to work at its most basic level, though the meanings of the French phrases add more than just flavor - at least that's my opinion - so I'd hope a reader without French would be inspired enough at some point to find a dictionary, a French speaking friend, or resort to Babelfish, which should suffice (except, perhaps, for the subtitle). I'll be interested in getting other opinions on this. In fact, my skill at French closely matches my skill at chess. Murderously woeful. I made use (for the French) of all three alternatives - a dictionary, a friend, and the Internet. All mistakes are mine, however. Except that the cork text comes right off the cork. In my defense (my French Defense! which I was aching to use somewhere, but sometimes the best things must be left out) any mistakes could well be the characters'. Please feel free to construe lack of control as artistic inspiration.
Reading the story now, a couple of weeks after having written in, I find many passages, especially at the beginning, too choppy for my taste. Maybe I'd do some lengthening and smoothing. Part of that fragment style might have owed to a slight and semi-unconscious attempt to mimic the exotic flavor of Sean's character, but I don't think I was successful there. I'm also not too pleased with the explicit sexual passages. At some moments I think they are neither quite clear enough nor quite sexy, while at other times I think they are too overt and too sexy. Similarly, I wonder whether the details of the actual chess game are too few or too many. My instincts tell me that they are not too far from being just right, but again I'm interested in getting the reactions of others. The model for the game, by the way, was one played by Bobby Fischer and the Dr. Max Euwe. (Love that name. I was tempted to have Meow play the French Defense (as I think I hinted a moment ago), but in a story that may lean excessively to the cute, I feared something so blatant would tip the balance. Karo-Kann might be too much as it is. In fact it is quite similar to the French, I'm told, except that Karo-Kann avoids Queen Bishop constriction.) There is a rough spot or two in the course of the game which I think could use some smoothing. I'm not sure. One little point: I'm considering changing "ICQ" to "e-mail pal" or "Internet pal" or something like that, only because I fear many readers won't know what ICQ is, though I like it because it sounds more like something chess buffs would use.
Thanks in advance to all those who comment, and thanks to Sean for the material. (I strongly suspect that if I'm to use this "rewrite" beyond a workshop I'll need either to get his permission or to change a few more things. But as I said up front - this started out as an exercise, and by and large it is still an exercise; I don't expect to use it outside of this workshop.)
- Mat
It is now late Friday night. I have read all the comments which have appeared in my AOL newsreader, which as been erratic of late. I hope I didn't miss anybody. Thanks so much to everyone who took the time to read the story and to comment. I am pleased that many of you thought much of the story worked, and I am grateful for all the suggestions. Every one of them has merit. Yes, that's a good idea, I'd say to myself as I read one suggestion. Yes, I should have done that, I'd say to the next comment. Yes, that should have been done better. Yes, yes, yes. But it didn't take me too long to figure out that some of the suggestions contradicted others, or would have me change the very thing that other readers said worked well. Furthermore, some of the suggestions, good and valid as they are, are beyond my capabilities, or would require writing quite a different story. Finally, were I to follow each suggestion, I have the strange feeling I might end up back where I started. Oh, dear. So I'm posting a revision which incorporates a few changes. I'm sure I should have done more.
A few comments on the comments, in case anyone is interested, and a few questions.
Sean:
I'm glad you liked the humor - Um, Vum, Xum. I'm glad you went back for that second reading. Would you have done that had it not been a Fishtank story? What was your reaction after the first reading? I don't mind if the reader doesn't "get" the ending immediately, but I'm not sure I'd want him to have to read the story a second time in order to understand it at all. Ideally the story would be attractive on the first reading. How could I accomplish that without at the same time weakening the impact?
For someone who doesn't know French, I think it's likely that the bits of it in this story will get in the way. One of the reasons I picked a French subtitle was to prepare the reader. If he hates seeing that sort of stuff, he can go away before he's made much of an investment. If, years from now when I'm unjustly famous, some noble critic decides to prepare an annotated version, I'd have no objections - well, how could I? But it's not something I'd do on my own. I like the idea (in general) of making any foreign bits gracefully evident within the text itself, and I've seen it done to perfection, but I couldn't figure out how to do it gracefully in this story. One technique is to have the speaker repeat the phrase in English. Another is to have the listener repeat the phrase in English, or reply in a way that makes the meaning clear. I didn't like the way either looked. For the final bits, I feel it would wreck the snap.
Valen:
I'm glad you liked the ending. I'm not sure I meant it to be a completely closed ending. Yes, I believe Carol engineered the whole thing, and probably Carol is Meow, but I think there's a possibility that Carol is merely in cahoots with Meow, and a possibility that her final comment is simply serendipitous - although the narrator almost certainly won't take it that way. In any event, what comes next, though beyond this story, is somewhat up in the air.
Chess has often been used in literature as a pawn in the pursuit of erotics. In real-life, too, I'd imagine! In the mid-90's Delta wrote a long and highly regarded story called "Strip Chess," which one or more readers have mentioned. (Best I remember, my attention wandered as I read "Strip Chess," and I don't think I finished it - I know I don't remember how it ends - but I intend to go back to it now.) You might also investigate chess in the works of Nabakov. Sean Ng, I learned, actually wrote two versions of "Checkmate," and in a preface to the first he mentions that he based his story on a novel he read.
I'm not sure I understand your comment about playing the Beatles. "Back in the USSR" is the first song on the White Album, isn't it? And I thought he did get up to put it on and later Sergeant Pepper's. Maybe I'm missing something.
Denny:
Thanks for pointing out that "can can." A French dance, right? Speaking of French, what language is OB-la-di?
I'm glad you liked the pace. That's one thing I lose a feel for after working with a story for a while. Wouldn't it be nice if there were a way for writers to read a work in progress with fresh eyes? For wine tasters, a snippet of bread or a small scoop of sorbet clears the palate, right? Anyone know of some similar tool or technique for writers? Irish whiskey and lots of it? (For the purists, I can't remember whether it's Irish whiskey and Scotch whisky or the other way around. I've not a bottle of either handy at the moment.)
Nick:
I'm glad you liked the premise and the pace. The premise, or at least the set-up, belongs to Sean. I liked it, too. Do you recall a story in which you didn't at first like the premise but later changed your mind?
I'm sorry about the lack of subtlety. My intention on the give and take of the seduction was that she should be perceived (though not necessarily accurately) as active or overt seductress only when Carol's dominance at the chess table begins to ebb. But clearly Carol and the guy do at least get along as soon as the music comes on and the wine begins to flow. Maybe that's a flaw. That she puts on makeup in the car is a curious mask. In fact she's probably only touching up her lipstick, but our narrator is as clueless as I am about the difference. I agree that Carol's character is a curious mix. I think the backseat stuff and the makeup is sort of a game, a bit of one-upmanship. Perhaps she is testing him. If a girl you desired got into the backseat, what would you do? What would you want to do?
Jeff:
You're right: that is, probably few cities of any size have a woman as chess champion. Is the story's credibility strained enough thereby to make it a problem? I'd rather not make her "woman's city champion."
I see this woman's dress as somewhat consistent with her "You can't beat me and you can't have me, I'm just too good" attitude. But as Nick said, if she falls too easily into his arms, the story fails. Unless ....
Conjugate:
I'm glad you had fun with it and liked the imagery, etc.. Good comments, man! Thanks! I needed a bit of a breather. And I see that there are scads more comments. This is stressful. But it's also fun! Anyone who doesn't submit to Fishtank is a fool.
Oosh:
Since Matt is gagged ...< Oh, now there's an image. Do I get my choice of
article? Anyway, thanks for the French translations.
"Le Chat a une Belle Queue/The cat (male) has a beautiful tail."<
I'd hoped at the outset for something more neutral, er ... ambiguous. Can anyone suggest a fix? It's okay for my characters to speak flawed French, but sinful for me. Anyway, I take the blame for this. I asked my friend the French for "The cat has a lovely tail," knowing that cat in French also means "pussy" but not realizing that it only applies to the female cat. When she pointed out my "mistake," I thought about changing it; however, the main purpose of the subtitle was a quasi-translation of "Checkmate," and I think it embodies and suggests (upon reflection) just the sort of confusion which may be appropriate. Or maybe it is just too confusing. What do you think?
"Mise en bouteilles dans nos chais ... A better-quality French wine might well have this (or something like it) on the cork." As I mentioned above, this is true to the cork, which in this case came from a rather inexpensive but also rather good (at least I thought so) French wine.
"Taille unique ... Ajustements tout d'une taille./One size only ... One size fits all." My non-native but very competent French speaking friend spent a good thirty minutes teaching me just the right way to say "taille" and "Queue." What fun! Of course she might have been pulling the wool over my eyes, so to speak. But you know what they say, French is the language of love. What does "coeur" mean again?
Jeff again:
I appreciate all your thoughts. I enjoyed your many observations. You're quite right: the narrator is sometimes selective about what he tells, and he doesn't tell a whole lot about himself. But I don't think he's being deceptive or duplicitous, with perhaps one or two little exceptions, and I believe that these do not violate the conventional standards of first person storytelling. He doesn't tell us that his understanding of French is much better than he let on to Carol, for example, but so what? We learn at the moment of his triumph. What exactly he means by his final remark is probably open to some interpretation.
But what more about him would you like to know besides his name, and how would it help the story? I see the most important fact about Max is his motive, and he's up front about that: he wants Carol. Okay, as you point out, there is some ambiguity there: if he had a choice between beating her at chess and having sex with her, which would he choose? I don't know. I don't really know if he knows. He'd like both. To an extent he sees both "problems" as games, and he plots accordingly. He wants her. (Okay, I do know. He'd pick her.)
DrSpin:
If this were published in hardcopy, the foreign phrases would undoubtedly appear in italics. I don't think I'd put translations into the flow, though I do acknowledge the issues. If this were to appear in an html setting, I'd certainly consider putting translation in a mouse-over box.
Nicholas Urfe:
First, I'd recommend losing the subtitle. It's too much of a clue. The
immediate impulse, of course, is that most readers not knowing French will let it slide as something to look up later, but it risks alienating those who don't know French and tipping your hand to those who do - or who have a French dictionary on hand, or who are adept enough at puzzling out the original meaning from Babelfish silliness online. Cleverness - which is what this story is, and is about - should proceed with a light hand. Don't smack 'em till the last moment.<
I appreciate these thoughts. My thinking is that I want it to be a clue, or a potential clue. And if I'm going to irritate anyone, let me get it out of the way right away. And if the reader "guesses" the ending from the subtitle, more power to him. Anyway, is it that bold a clue? Does it let the entire cat out of the bag? Or does it just give us a little peek inside?
Regarding the details of the chess world, I'm not sure. I do like telling details, but even if I knew enough to provide them, I'm not sure they would help. Maybe the actual name of a made-up tournament. The Twin-Cities Open, how's that? I probably could do something with the atmosphere of the club at the beginning. At the same time I like the economy of the reader providing whatever fill is needed in the setting. Okay, right now maybe it's a bland and sterile as a porno set. At least it's not cluttered. When setting serves at entertainment but does not advance the story, I prefer to let the reader fend for himself. I'm not sure that the specific is always better than the general, or rather the specific versus the unspecified specific. The chess club. Bishop's Woods Chess Club. Naw. I like the Thomas Pynchon of "Entropy," but I also like the John Hawkes of Second Skin. (") She was a 2250 and climbing. I'll probably never crack 2000. But ...(") But I don't know. I can see the upside. I can see the down.
I'd probably like the story you want to read. Wonderful vision. Go ahead, write it. I do like your idea of getting more of Carol and Meow into this story, and two or three well-placed comments might be enough. I tried a few for the revision, but they weren't good enough, disrupting more than adding, and so I left them out.
Word choice: how vulgar is "pussy fur"? I thought it was just naughty enough, and playful, and apt, but maybe I'm being blind. Anyway, I've tweaked the lead-in, in an attempt to soften it some.
Oosh:
I thought it
impressive that despite working within what I'd think of as a restricted regime of sentence types, the language nevertheless flowed with good rhythm and poise.<
Thanks. I need to work on my sentence types. I fear the restricted regime is due as much to my own limitations as anything else. Thanks for the examples of improved flow.
In the dialogue, though, I did feel that there were too many "I
said/she said" explications, too many of them a few words into the quoted speech. I know that some think that I don't put enogh of them into my own writing, and perhaps I'm being over-sensitive. At least, some of these could be changed, so that instead of just "I said" or "Carol said", we might have some kind of characteristic action - for example:
"Oh!" Carol put her hand to her mouth. "You startled me."<
Good suggestion. My feeling in general is that "he said/she said" explications evaporate. The worst thing is to leave the reader unsure of the speaker, though if the words are "in character" it's less likely to be a problem. The advantage of having nothing (or having an evaporated "he said" is that it's intensely immediate. At the same time it doesn't give as full a picture. In summary, the main reason I use tags is to make sure the reader can understand who is speaking, but I agree that many of the tags in this story are not needed. A secondary reason for the tag sometimes is to show the pause. Something a little stronger than a period but not so strong that an intervening phrase (of action or whatever) is called for. In the revision I have streamlined here and there.
I find myself very tentatively wondering whether "Checkmate", with its
connotation of finality, is quite right as the title of a story that feels more like a beginning than an end. Given the glorious playfulness of the piece, perhaps simply "Mate"? That would require a change in the first paragraph, but I'm not sure that Carol wouldn't want both syllables of "checkmate" anyway, to dismiss her first inept adversary.<
Actually checkmate was intended (coupled with the subtitle) to be playful. I do see your point.
I confess that it was not until Nicholas gently suggested it that I
realized about Carol and Meow. I just wonder whether, without being too obvious about it, Matt should somehow insinuate that Carol is less than surprised by her adversary's competence. For her to say "Maybe I've underestimated you" made it difficult for me to see it, even when it was so beautifully spelled out.<
So it appears that the subtitle in your case (even though you know French) did not give the game away. That's interesting. Had I used the "proper" word for pussy, maybe you would have seen it immediately. I like the idea of Carol being extremely competent for her part in all this, and I fear I'm not competent enough to have her insinuate without it being too stark. I don't want (Max, as I now call him) to have any doubts on that score until the end, so we'd have to have him relate something which slips right by him. I'm sure it can be done. After all, he's blinded by ... something. The interesting thing in all this, from my perspective, is that Carol, assuming she is Meow, or is league with Meow, could easily win the Jag (or whatever she wants). In short, she's got this guy regardless. And yet she chooses a different tactic.
Jeff again, about the ending:
It wasn't blatant or pushy, but neither did it take more than a
moment to get it. The alternative would be subtle and devious or clandestine, where you'd need to think quite a while before you figured it out.<
Thanks. I hope that even in figuring it out, there's at least a little more to think about. In other words, I didn't mean this to be nothing more than a twist story. Ah, but then some people didn't get the twist.
Reader:
I sympathize with the language issue. I remember reading John Fowles The Magus when I was young. I remember liking it and being frustrated by the Greek at the very end. My investigative skills were not up to the deciphering task: our little town library hadn't anything to help; my school's library was worse; I didn't know anybody to write to or to ask, and even if I did, maybe I would have been too shy. Oh, and this was long before the Internet. So a translastion such as you suggest would have made me happy.
Valen:
the french used in this story is
more to add elegance (I think) and what's actually said in french doesn't matter (as much).<
Well, that wasn't completely my intent. That is, I didn't intend the French meanings to be meaningless. But I didn't intend them to be vital, and I'm happy for you reaction.
Jane:
I agree that her domish behavior at the beginning is a little much.
On the blink before the sex, again I think you're right. I'm not sure what I'm going to do about it, though.
I'm glad you liked the sex. I had some misgivings there, too.
i argued with mats language
for half the story first time through, finding a spelling error or a contraction that wasnt where id like it, the french, the cunts [a word im never fond of] and all that argument rang hollow ... what matters most is how it rolled off the tongue in harmony with the lightness of the story ... nice touch ... well done! bravo!<
Thank you. I would, however, like to know about the spelling and the misplaced contraction and especially the hollow argument - I'm not quite sure what you mean.
Bradley:
Thanks! I don't know if I will cut out the information that he learned about Carol from reading the high school paper. Probably we don't need to know that, but I think it does fill him out a little. It goes to his character and history?
"A Game of Chess Ending in a Draw" is one of the crappiest titles in the world"
Now here we disagree! That could be a great title, though I probably wouldn't use it for this. One of the best story titles I can think of is Mark Aster's "Woman Being Tongued to Orgasm While Reciting North American State Capitals."
Jim:
Thanks for the comments and the ideas. Perhaps the beginning does need some slight bolstering. Exactly how Meow and (Max) came to connect is something of a mystery, but I'm inclined to leave that up to the reader.
Gary:
Glad for your comments about the French. On the other hand, it might be easier to decide what to do if everyone hated it.
Selena:
Thanks for the good examples of deflected translation.
Celia:
Thanks for the comments. I really admired writers who can make me forget I'm reading a story. I agree that sameness of sentence structure can keep the reader from the story. Obviously I can't just stick in weird structures, either. Those would call attention to themselves. And oddly enough, some writing teachers recommend "dull" sentence structures as a way to keep the writing transparent. Interesting issue.
As far as whey Carol wanted the nerd, well, that is a question, and to an extent it's one the reader is supposed to ask. The guy is clearly a little surprised when she agrees to go home with him. At that point she supposedly doesn't know he has a Jag (or even that they're going to "play" for it, so that can't be it. I intend for the reader to have a reaction something like yours - it's supposed to be a small point of tension. (Why is she going out with him? What's going on?) But it's not supposed to strain the credibility so much that the reader stops reading.
Selena:
I would really like to see more of Carol in between nasty-aloof
and drunk-seductive. From what we see of her, it's hard to decide why the narrator wants her, besides her physical attributes: she smirks, she insults him (Daddy's Jag, bad chess), she's bored with the Whole Thing. You tell us that the two of them talk about the past, have a good time talking, but you don't show us. Show us. Otherwise the "forever" at the end jars pretty seriously.<
I think the reasons he wants her have to do with not just the physical; she beat him twenty-three times in high school. He wasn't brave enough to talk to her. Does he want her forever? That's her line. It's supposed to jolt a little, but not jar. I imagine people say some strange things in those moments. Earlier I did try to show some of their chat. Not enough?
2) Why on earth does Carol get in the back of the car? This seems unnatural to me. If she does it, you might mention that it's not what ordinary people do when two adults are riding in the car together; the narrator would surely feel she was trying to put him at a disadvantage, maintain her aloofness, something.
Right, strange behavior. On her part and his. What do you make of it? And then suddenly at his apartment things are more normal.
From: spd3432
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 13:31:38 -0800
On 06 Apr 2002 18:55:54 GMT, [email protected] (mat twassel) wrote:
Sean:
I'm glad you liked the humor - Um, Vum, Xum. I'm glad you went back for that second reading. Would you have done that had it not been a Fishtank story? What was your reaction after the first reading? I don't mind if the reader doesn't "get" the ending immediately, but I'm not sure I'd want him to have to read the story a second time in order to understand it at all. Ideally the story would be attractive on the first reading. How could I accomplish that without at the same time weakening the impact?
Mat,
I hesitated originally to post the reason for my second reading. I didn't want to lead anyone to jump to the same conclusion that I had. Her final statement of "meow" triggered a fresh memory. I re-read it and matched "meow" with the name of his ICQ chess mentor. At that point, I concluded that Carol was Meow. The bits of dialog "I must have beat you twenty times in high school" "Actually it was twenty-three" indicated to me that there was some sort of mutual attraction ten years prior. I played chess in high school. I was 6th board in our chess club and played in tournaments both within our school and against other schools in the district. There is no way that I would have remembered how many times I played an individual opponent two years after I graduated, let alone ten years.
I had translated the subtitle and applied it to Carol with my poor French skills. I know that the romance languages don't have gender neutral nouns so when I saw "Le Chat" I assumed "The Cat" and didn't think that there could possibly be a female form.
I would have read it a second time even if it had not been a Fishtank story. I may be unique in that aspect. One of my favorite mainstream authors is W.E.B. Griffin. I have all nine books in "The Corps" series. Each time he has published a new book, I have gone back and re-read the entire series from the beginning in order to re-acquaint myself with the characters. Another is Piers Anthony. Over a decade ago, he wrote three books in "The Mode" series. He never wrote / published the conclusion to that series. The hardback volumn came out last year and the paperback last month. It took trips to three different used bookstores to obtain the first three so that I could read the finale. As the saying goes "You can't tell the players without a scorecard." Someday I hope Morgan will publish the final chapter of Kathy Carlson. When he does, I'll re-read the story from the beginning first so as to not miss any obscure references. Perhaps the better question to ask is not if I'd have re-read it but how many others read it a second time.
Sean
From: Nick
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 23:36:20 GMT
On 06 Apr 2002 18:55:54 GMT, [email protected] (mat twassel) wrote:
Nick:
I'm glad you liked the premise and the pace. The premise, or at least the set-up, belongs to Sean. I liked it, too. Do you recall a story in which you didn't at first like the premise but later changed your mind?
Of course there is also that famous scene in 'The Thomas Crown Affair' (plus many otherws I'm sure). As for the second question, yes of course. A good writer can take an unlikely sounding premise and carry the reader along. I suppose 'Captain Correlli's Mandolin' is an example of a novel I'd never have read if a friend hadn't raved about it. There are probably better examples, but i can't think of them at this time of night.
I'm sorry about the lack of subtlety. My intention on the give and take of the seduction was that she should be perceived (though not necessarily accurately) as active or overt seductress only when Carol's dominance at the chess table begins to ebb.
I hadn't particularly noticed that her dominance had faded, though that was certainly the narrators intontion. In fact she 'cheated by sucking off the bish when things looked as if they might go bad for her.
But clearly Carol and the guy do at least get along as soon as the music comes on and the wine begins to flow. Maybe that's a flaw. That she puts on makeup in the car is a curious mask. In fact she's probably only touching up her lipstick, but our narrator is as clueless as I am about the difference. I agree that Carol's character is a curious mix. I think the backseat stuff and the makeup is sort of a game, a bit of one-upmanship. Perhaps she is testing him. If a girl you desired got into the backseat, what would you do? What would you want to do?
Probably drive for a bit, then stop at a secluded spot and climb over! Sod the chess! ;-)
My feeling, and it is only my feeling, is that this might have benefitted with a whole lot of writing that plays with her character, but which never appears in the final text (like Hemingways Iceberg principle). Genius chess players are generally complex unstable characters, and I felt that you could have played with that concept to make a story with a lot more depth - then that would have been my story, not yours. Hey! Perhaps I could do with your story what you did with Seans!
Having said all that, I'm not quite sure how I would approach it myself. Preplanning on a story is not one of my strong points and what would result is probably a mishmash of incomprehensible nonsense. There are techniques, I know, but I haven't yet found one that suits me.
Nick
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:48:24 GMT
[email protected] (mat twassel) wrote in news:[email protected]:
...however, the main purpose of the subtitle was a quasi-translation of "Checkmate," and I think it embodies and suggests (upon reflection) just the sort of confusion which may be appropriate. Or maybe it is just too confusing. What do you think?
Well, I confess that I'm floundering! I couldn't see the connexion with "checkmate". I appreciated the structural function of the other French quotations, but I couldn't see the relevance of this. "Checkmate" in French is (so far as I know) "�chec et mat".
O.
From: Starhawk
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:33:41 -0500
Jacques LeBlanc wrote:
[email protected] wrote in message news:
There's also a scene in "The Number of the Beast ..." where one character, speaking of her physicist, polymath father, says (roughly), "When he starts in with 'It then becomes obvious that ...' I know it's time for me to leave." ('she,' btw is a genius in her own right; but not one of the very few mathematicians who can deal with her father's math.)
"Few?" It's been a while since I read that book, but IIRC there was exactly one other mathematician who could really understand what Jake Burroughs was talking about, and he was from a different worldline: Andrew Jackson Libby. (Of course, "he" had been reborn as a she, Libby Long, by the time she and Dr. Burroughs met. That was arguably Heinlein's weirdest book.)
Weird?
Sure.
But the premise isn't all that strange. We all may be characters in the books of other universes (background and/or offstage characters, for the most part, unless your life is really interesting). It could be that the books that describe our universe are recording a history of a wholly different part of it, unconnected with us in any way.
Heck, an anime (THE MYSTERIOUS PLAY) I'm running for my city's club has the main character going into a book and interacting with the book's characters (she winds up falling in love with one of them). Near the end of the series some of the book's characters come to her world and dealing with the realization that they are from a book.
It also doesn't do to obsess about it either, since unless we find some way of traversing to another universe, we'll never be able to prove or disprove it. (Although, at times, it seems as if my life is written by a gag writer ...)
From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 16:48:20 -0800
On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:18:59 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> held forth, saying:
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3cb0093f.1496497 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:10:30 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3cae43be.6477545 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
On 04 Apr 2002 05:54:12 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote: Oosh for queen!
Actually, a vacancy has recently arisen ...
What a very male perspective!
It's such a male perspective that I don't even understand what you can mean.
"Vacancy" means "emptiness". It's difficult to see how it could "arise".
Would it sound so very odd if I were to say "a vacancy opened up ..."?
While I see the grammatical point, how is Nick's usage a male perspective????
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 16:49:10 -0800
On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:20:43 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> held forth, saying:
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3caf0857.1265086 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
I wonder what the Chelsea Pensioners would make of having a lesbian Queen other.
That should, of course, be "Queen Other". Well, far be it from me to step into the breach.
O.
Better into the breach than into the breech ...
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 6 Apr 2002 23:18:11 -0800
Starhawk <[email protected]> wrote:
Heck, an anime (THE MYSTERIOUS PLAY) I'm running for my city's club has the main character going into a book and interacting with the book's characters (she winds up falling in love with one of them). Near the end of the series some of the book's characters come to her world and dealing with the realization that they are from a book.
"Fushigi Yuugi." I loved that series. It's hard to get into at the beginning, and all the super-deformed scenes are a tad irritating, but once it gets going, wow! I got into the characters to the extent that I cried like a baby when Nuriko bought it. It also has the second best ending of any of the ten or so full-length anime series I've watched, after "The Irresponsible Captain Tylor." The only thing that would have made it better would be getting to actually see Miyaka and Tamahome get it on, hentai-style .... ;-)
It also doesn't do to obsess about it either, since unless we find some way of traversing to another universe, we'll never be able to prove or disprove it. (Although, at times, it seems as if my life is written by a gag writer ...)
I think we all feel that way, once in a while .... Later, Jacques
P.S. Is your 'nym by any chance a reference to Robert Anton Wilson's "Schrodinger's Cat Trilogy?" Starhawk was the coolest character in those books ....
From: Starhawk
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 12:56:47 -0400
Jacques LeBlanc wrote:
Starhawk <[email protected]> wrote:
Heck, an anime (THE MYSTERIOUS PLAY) I'm running for my city's club has the main character going into a book and interacting with the book's characters (she winds up falling in love with one of them). Near the end of the series some of the book's characters come to her world and dealing with the realization that they are from a book.
"Fushigi Yuugi." I loved that series. It's hard to get into at the beginning, and all the super-deformed scenes are a tad irritating, but once it gets going, wow! I got into the characters to the extent that I cried like a baby when Nuriko bought it. It also has the second best ending of any of the ten or so full-length anime series I've watched, after "The Irresponsible Captain Tylor." The only thing that would have made it better would be getting to actually see Miyaka and Tamahome get it on, hentai-style .... ;-)
Now that would be a sight, wouldn't it? ;-) And I'm starting "Tylor" for the club in a couple of weeks.
It also doesn't do to obsess about it either, since unless we find some way of traversing to another universe, we'll never be able to prove or disprove it. (Although, at times, it seems as if my life is written by a gag writer ...)
I think we all feel that way, once in a while .... Later, Jacques
P.S. Is your 'nym by any chance a reference to Robert Anton Wilson's "Schrodinger's Cat Trilogy?" Starhawk was the coolest character in those books ....
Actually, it's from my CB handle, which I picked from the comics .... predating Wilson's books.
From: celia batau
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 14:16:07 -0700
hi Starhawk!
"Starhawk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Actually, it's from my CB handle, which I picked from the comics .... predating Wilson's books.
we have a handle?
-cb
celia batau's story site: http://www.myplanet.net/pinataheart/stories.htm.
there goes my shirt, up over my head. oh my. there goes my skirt, dropping to my feet. oh my. some kind of touch, caressing my legs. oh my. i'm turning red. who could this be. oh my. -Tweet
From: Starhawk
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 06:04:53 -0400
celia batau wrote:
hi Starhawk!
"Starhawk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ... Actually, it's from my CB handle, which I picked from the comics .... predating Wilson's books.
we have a handle?
-cb
-
celia batau's story site: http://www.myplanet.net/pinataheart/stories.htm.
there goes my shirt, up over my head. oh my. there goes my skirt, dropping to my feet. oh my. some kind of touch, caressing my legs. oh my. i'm turning red. who could this be. oh my. -Tweet
I have a handle, and I handle myself very carefully, indeed! If you have a handle, it is not my place to lay hands upon it without your consent.
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 19:07:46 -0500
On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 14:16:07 -0700, "celia batau" <[email protected]> wrote:
hi Starhawk!
"Starhawk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ... Actually, it's from my CB handle, which I picked from the comics .... predating Wilson's books.
we have a handle?
Of course. Everyone does.
Especially when they talk on CB radio. Citizen's Band that is, though I suppose celia could own a radio too.
Which is kind of like instant messaging chat, except that you can talk out loud and it is hard to find people to talk to with all the noise ...
Er ...
Hey, Starhawk, do people still just chat on CB, if they aren't truck drivers or other travellers?
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: Starhawk
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Tue, 09 Apr 2002 02:48:28 -0400
Jeff Zephyr wrote:
On Sun, 7 Apr 2002 14:16:07 -0700, "celia batau" <[email protected]> wrote:
hi Starhawk!
"Starhawk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ... Actually, it's from my CB handle, which I picked from the comics .... predating Wilson's books.
we have a handle?
Of course. Everyone does.
Especially when they talk on CB radio. Citizen's Band that is, though I suppose celia could own a radio too.
Which is kind of like instant messaging chat, except that you can talk out loud and it is hard to find people to talk to with all the noise ...
Er ...
Hey, Starhawk, do people still just chat on CB, if they aren't truck drivers or other travellers?
Not so much, they're all busy with their cell phones ... :-)
From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 7 Apr 2002 16:45:11 -0700
Starhawk <[email protected]> wrote:
Now that would be a sight, wouldn't it? ;-)
Indeed; Miyaka's a cutie, and Tamahome has been fairly described by a friend of mine (who worked at the store where I used to rent anime back in Maryland) as "the bishonenest of all bishonen." (A note for those who are only somewhat familiar with anime: it's a common misconception that all "hentai," or anime pornography, involves violent, ultrahardcore rape and supernatural beings with multiple, prehensile, and/or gigantic sex organs. While such fantasies are common, there's also a sub-genre of teen romance hentai, exemplified by shows such as "End of Summer," and "First Loves;" imagine animated Frank Downey stories and you'll have a pretty clear idea what they're like.)
And I'm starting "Tylor" for the club in a couple of weeks.
Have you seen it before yourself? If not, I envy you, as the distinct pleasure of watching that series for the first time is now in my past.
Actually, it's from my CB handle, which I picked from the comics .... predating Wilson's books.
Ah. I take it you have read the books, though? Later, Jacques
From: Starhawk
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 06:20:46 -0400
Jacques LeBlanc wrote:
Starhawk <[email protected]> wrote:
Now that would be a sight, wouldn't it? ;-)
Indeed; Miyaka's a cutie, and Tamahome has been fairly described by a friend of mine (who worked at the store where I used to rent anime back in Maryland) as "the bishonenest of all bishonen." (A note for those who are only somewhat familiar with anime: it's a common misconception that all "hentai," or anime pornography, involves violent, ultrahardcore rape and supernatural beings with multiple, prehensile, and/or gigantic sex organs. While such fantasies are common, there's also a sub-genre of teen romance hentai, exemplified by shows such as "End of Summer," and "First Loves;" imagine animated Frank Downey stories and you'll have a pretty clear idea what they're like.)
And that's not counting the humorous hentai ...
And I'm starting "Tylor" for the club in a couple of weeks.
Have you seen it before yourself? If not, I envy you, as the distinct pleasure of watching that series for the first time is now in my past.
Since they're my tapes, yes, I have; for anyone else: Tylor is the most zoned-out captain the space navy ever had, but he's got the best luck in the universe. (Much to the dismay of the enemy AND his superiors ...)
Actually, it's from my CB handle, which I picked from the comics .... predating Wilson's books.
Ah. I take it you have read the books, though?
Not those particular ones, will have to look them up.
From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 6 Apr 2002 23:25:02 -0800
[email protected] wrote:
Well, there was Zeb's relative (who was killed 'offstage') and of course there was "Dr. N. O. Brain" - and I seem to recall mention of a Finnish mathematician Jake considered a peer.
I dunno if 'Number' is his weirdest; my nomination for that would go to 'Job'
Point. I was forgetting that one. I do consider "Number," on balance, to be weirder than "I Will Fear No Evil," "The Cat Who Walks Through Walls," and "To Sail Beyond the Sunset," however. It's the epilogue that really clinches it.
- but 'Number' certainly seems to be the one which elicits the strongest reactions. I love it - but many, including a lot of RAH's fans, really dislike the Hell out of it.
I've noticed that. Most of the fans who don't like "Number" also hate "Job," "Evil," "Cat," and "Sunset" as well. I recall someone referring to "the virulent brain fever to which Robert A. Heinlein succumbed in his later years. I did enjoy all those books, but my favorites of his are "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" and "Friday."
(I can NOT read the passage where Zeb learns Deety's real name without audibly chuckling)
I'd never read the Barsoom novels, so that didn't have as much of an
effect on me.
Later,
Jacques
From: Uther Pendragon
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 7 Apr 2002 18:19:07 -0600
[email protected] (Jacques LeBlanc) wrote:
I've noticed that. Most of the fans who don't like "Number" also hate "Job," "Evil," "Cat," and "Sunset" as well. I recall someone referring to "the virulent brain fever to which Robert A. Heinlein succumbed in his later years. I did enjoy all those books, but my favorites of his are "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress" and "Friday."
RAH went through several periods. Liking one of them is no guarantee that you'll like the preceding or the succeeding period.
My favorites are from the middle period, mostly the juveniles.
If you want somebody who REALLY has different fan clubs, try the German theologian, Dietrich Bonhoeffer.
Bonhoeffer produced some major theological works. He was in the midst of producing his last, Ethics, when he was arrested for the plot to assassinate Hitler.
While in prison, he smuggled out some letters and odd pieces to his friends. One of those friends put those together as a slim volume called Letters and Papers From Prison.
One of the "death of God" types put together a list of books which influenced that movement. It was a quile lengthy list, including all of Tillich's Systematic Theology. (That ran to three volumes, IIRC.) The only work of Bonhoeffer which he included was Letters and Papers From Prison. (And the weird thing was that the man called himself a Bonhoefferan.)
Most of what I've read from Bonhoeffer consists of the practical books, Life Together in particular.
Uther Pendragon FAQs http://www.nyx.net/~anon584c [email protected] fiqshn http://www.asstr.org/~Uther_Pendragon
"Uther is perfectly correct." Hecate
From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 9 Apr 2002 03:19:36 -0700
Uther Pendragon <[email protected]> wrote:
RAH went through several periods. Liking one of them is no guarantee that you'll like the preceding or the succeeding period.
I actually love just about everything he wrote, from "Lifeline" to "To Sail Beyond the Sunset," but I think that places me in the minority.
My favorites are from the middle period, mostly the juveniles.
I like those pretty well; the first few were weak, but he got steadily better over the time he was writing them. "Citizen of the Galaxy" and "Have Spacesuit, Will Travel" were terrific. I also especially liked "The Door into Summer," for the lovely metaphor of its title and for the novel use of cryogenic suspension to reduce the age difference between two people in love to something society will tolerate. My favorite Heinlein novels, though, are from his later period, after he took off the gloves, so to speak, and started really shocking people with his sociological speculations: "Time Enough for Love," "Friday," and, above all, "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress." Later, Jacques
From: Nicholas Urfe
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 9 Apr 2002 09:02:49 -0700
[email protected] (Jacques LeBlanc) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...
I actually love just about everything he wrote, from "Lifeline" to "To Sail Beyond the Sunset," but I think that places me in the minority.
Must ... resist ... dig ... (I'm being cruel. Jacques cheerfully admits he's in the minority, and we REALLY don't want it getting out how much WE enjoyed "The Number of the Beast" as a lonely adolescent at summer camp, now, do we? - Of course, we were then lonely and adolescent, and we are now - what? Older? Wiser? Married?)
My favorite Heinlein novels, though, are from his later period, after he took off the gloves, so to speak, and started really shocking people with his sociological speculations: "Time Enough for Love," "Friday," and, above all, "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress."
That's really odd, that you should lump "Moon" in with the later works. I always thought of "Moon" (far and away my favorite Heinlein, which is to say about the only one I can tolerate re-reading; I do have a warm spot in my heart yet for the juvies, and I will always adore his short, "The Menace From Earth") as being the last gasp of the reasonable, rational Heinlein, the Heinlein who was trying (if not always succeeding) to write stories rather than polemics, the last book the old Heinlein managed to squeeze out before the lulu-land acclaim for "Stranger" went once and for all to his head and his "senescent dreaming" period began, with "Time Enough For Love" on out to the bitter, snarling, never-as-shocking-as-it-so-badly-wanted-to-be end. "Moon" is actually a rousing story, like one of his juvies with more of an adult eye on the political ball, and even if it has more than a whiff of Heinein's ever-present uncharitably arrogant elitism, it's still in the service to that story; it isn't the be-all and end-all, and its downside is recognized (however churlishly, it's recognized) even as its upside is celebrated.
- But again, we should maybe drop the whole Heinlein thing; we don't want everyone to realize how we had hardcovers of everything from "Friday" to "Sunset" pretty much from the moment they hit the shelves. Pappy Heinlein is weird, at least for me; rarely has my opinion about a writer changed so drastically, so radically.
Maybe it was all that liberal, politically correct brainwashing in college.
Best,
- n.
"He did not expect reasonable conduct from human beings; most people were candidates for protective restraint.� He simply wished they would leave him alone! - all but the few he chose for playmates."
playmates, eh?
http://www.asstr.org/~nickurfe/ift/
http://www.ruthiesclub.com/
From: Valen Thyan
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 09:44:27 GMT
<[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:18:59 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> held forth, saying:
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3cb0093f.1496497 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:10:30 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3cae43be.6477545 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
On 04 Apr 2002 05:54:12 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote: Oosh for queen!
Actually, a vacancy has recently arisen ...
What a very male perspective!
It's such a male perspective that I don't even understand what you can mean.
"Vacancy" means "emptiness". It's difficult to see how it could "arise".
Would it sound so very odd if I were to say "a vacancy opened up ..."?
While I see the grammatical point, how is Nick's usage a male perspective????
I am also curious, but I'd like to hazard an outlandish hypothesis.
Because of the male obession with "arising" (as in erection), the comment is male?
I hope I'm wrong. :)
Valen
[email protected]
http://www.asstr.org/~valen/
From: Always Horny
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 15:49:40 +0200
Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue By Mat Twassel
The story is very cute. And extra credits for not going the nc/reluc route after setting up such a female character.
The hint-behind-the-hint drawer-style story construction is nice too.
For negatives, I have only one really: how she behaves in the second part of the story is so out of character for who she is in the first part, that I had a very hard time with suspension of disbelief. You may want to help the reader, for ex with a comment about her having drunk too much, or whatever.
My quickie FT post will prolly come too late after the week's closure, but what the heck. I am just back now, and I'd rather not miss the FT if I can.
Looks bad for the coming weeks, tho, because all my friends here are getting the ominous phone call: "be ready to fly home and join your unit at short notice". Things look pretty bad.
I know that this time there won't be one of these calls for me. Instead, I get calls from those who go, asking to help take care of family/shop/things while they are away. And I realize that actually it is a lot worse to be here worrying about them than to be there, more exposed but with a sense that I can do something about the outcome of the war.
I wish we too had the convenience of fighting against terrorism in some faraway country, without risking an all-out war, like the US. No such luck. Well, maybe things won't get that bad. Syria is moving troops & armor in Bekaa, shit flares up in South Lebanon, Jordan Irak Egypt & cohorts thump their chests, but hopefully they'll think twice before committing the irreparable. Hopefully.
AH
A_H_01 at hotmail. com
From: Starhawk
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 12:48:15 -0400
[email protected] wrote:
On 6 Apr 2002 02:42:18 -0800, [email protected] (Jacques LeBlanc) held forth, saying:
[email protected] wrote in message news:
There's also a scene in "The Number of the Beast ..." where one character, speaking of her physicist, polymath father, says (roughly), "When he starts in with 'It then becomes obvious that ...' I know it's time for me to leave." ('she,' btw is a genius in her own right; but not one of the very few mathematicians who can deal with her father's math.)
"Few?" It's been a while since I read that book, but IIRC there was exactly one other mathematician who could really understand what Jake Burroughs was talking about, and he was from a different worldline: Andrew Jackson Libby. (Of course, "he" had been reborn as a she, Libby Long, by the time she and Dr. Burroughs met. That was arguably Heinlein's weirdest book.)
Well, there was Zeb's relative (who was killed 'offstage') and of course there was "Dr. N. O. Brain" - and I seem to recall mention of a Finnish mathematician Jake considered a peer.
I dunno if 'Number' is his weirdest; my nomination for that would go to 'Job' - but 'Number' certainly seems to be the one which elicits the strongest reactions. I love it - but many, including a lot of RAH's fans, really dislike the Hell out of it. (I can NOT read the passage where Zeb learns Deety's real name without audibly chuckling)
Dr. N. O. Brain was an enemy agent, placed to discredit that line of research.
From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 13:30:55 -0700
On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 12:48:15 -0400, Starhawk <[email protected]> held forth, saying:
Well, there was Zeb's relative (who was killed 'offstage') and of course there was "Dr. N. O. Brain" - and I seem to recall mention of a Finnish mathematician Jake considered a peer.
<the vorpal blade went snicker-snack!>
Dr. N. O. Brain was an enemy agent, placed to discredit that line of researc
(spoiler space below for those who haven't read The Number of the Beast)
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Well, yes - in fact, 'NO Brain' was a 'Black Hat' alien, surgically modified to live among humans. But (in respect of the 'mathematics' issue) he was quite capable of understanding Jake Burrough's math; after all, his species was already using it to travel among the multiverses.
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 10:52:19 -0600
On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:48:24 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
[email protected] (mat twassel) wrote in news:[email protected]:
...however, the main purpose of the subtitle was a quasi-translation of "Checkmate," and I think it embodies and suggests (upon reflection) just the sort of confusion which may be appropriate. Or maybe it is just too confusing. What do you think?
Well, I confess that I'm floundering! I couldn't see the connexion with "checkmate". I appreciated the structural function of the other French quotations, but I couldn't see the relevance of this. "Checkmate" in French is (so far as I know) "�chec et mat".
Yes, please explain it. Checkmate most accurately translates as "The King is Dead" more or less :-) - the move which wins the game is an attack on the King (Check ~ Sheik).
On the other hand, maybe you meant a translation of the situation in the story? Still, it seems vague to me.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
From: dennyw
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 13:32:00 -0700
On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 10:52:19 -0600, Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> held forth, saying:
On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:48:24 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
[email protected] (mat twassel) wrote in news:[email protected]:
...however, the main purpose of the subtitle was a quasi-translation of "Checkmate," and I think it embodies and suggests (upon reflection) just the sort of confusion which may be appropriate. Or maybe it is just too confusing. What do you think?
Well, I confess that I'm floundering! I couldn't see the connexion with "checkmate". I appreciated the structural function of the other French quotations, but I couldn't see the relevance of this. "Checkmate" in French is (so far as I know) "�chec et mat".
Yes, please explain it. Checkmate most accurately translates as "The King is Dead" more or less :-) - the move which wins the game is an attack on the King (Check ~ Sheik).
shah mat 'the king is dead'
-denny-
nocturnal curmudgeon, editor
Never try to outstubborn a cat. - Lazarus Long
From: Conjugate
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 18:33:31 -0400
"Jeff Zephyr" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:48:24 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
[email protected] (mat twassel) wrote in news:[email protected]:
...however, the main purpose of the subtitle was a quasi-translation of "Checkmate," and I think it embodies and suggests (upon reflection) just the sort of confusion which may be appropriate. Or maybe it is just too confusing. What do you think?
Well, I confess that I'm floundering! I couldn't see the connexion with "checkmate". I appreciated the structural function of the other French quotations, but I couldn't see the relevance of this. "Checkmate" in French is (so far as I know) "�chec et mat".
Yes, please explain it. Checkmate most accurately translates as "The King is Dead" more or less :-) - the move which wins the game is an attack on the King (Check ~ Sheik).
Why, Shah, it is. Shah-Mat was what I was taught the origin of the phrase was.
Conjugate
From: Lisala
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 19:00:37 -0700
In article <[email protected]>, Conjugate <[email protected]> wrote:
Why, Shah, it is. Shah-Mat was what I was taught the origin of the phrase was.
Yes, it is shah mat, shah meaning "king." It is, quite literally, "king died" from Old French, from Persian by way of Arabic.
From: oosh
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Mon, 08 Apr 2002 05:28:12 GMT
lisala <[email protected]> wrote in news:070420021900370253%[email protected]:
In article <[email protected]>, Conjugate <[email protected]> wrote:
Why, Shah, it is. Shah-Mat was what I was taught the origin of the phrase was.
Yes, it is shah mat, shah meaning "king."
Which of course sounds like the French "chat" ... We're gradually solving the puzzle. Now what is the "belle queue"?
O.
From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: 8 Apr 2002 00:18:34 -0700
lisala <[email protected]> wrote in message news:
Yes, it is shah mat, shah meaning "king." It is, quite literally, "king died" from Old French, from Persian by way of Arabic.
As anyone familiar with the recent history of Persia (lately calle
Iran) should know.
Later,
Jacques
From: Nick
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:40:56 GMT
On Sun, 07 Apr 2002 00:18:59 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3cb0093f.1496497 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 01:10:30 GMT, oosh <[email protected]> wrote:
[email protected] (Nick) wrote in news:3cae43be.6477545 @supernews.surfanytime.co.uk:
On 04 Apr 2002 05:54:12 GMT, [email protected] (Gary Jordan) wrote: Oosh for queen!
Actually, a vacancy has recently arisen ...
What a very male perspective!
It's such a male perspective that I don't even understand what you can mean.
"Vacancy" means "emptiness". It's difficult to see how it could "arise".
Would it sound so very odd if I were to say "a vacancy opened up ..."?
Oh, I think I see.
Of course, given the historical dominance of male culture over the Monarchy, the role of a Queen, in many respects, takes on a slightly androgynous role anyway, so my comment would seem particularly appropriate (except, of course, we are talking about the Queen Mother, not the Queen).
I'll have to have a word with HR about how they word their recruitment adverts in future. :-)
Nick
From: celia batau
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 14:26:36 -0700
hi Nick!
"Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
I'll have to have a word with HR about how they word their recruitment adverts in future. :-)
are there any other openings? we'd be good. we can wave. we can smile. maybe we shouldn't be given the scissors at grand openings, and maybe we wouldn't be able to direct our staff, but then we could hire someone to do it for us? we'd look good in the tabloids and on buttons. :)
-cb (just asking)
celia batau's story site: http://www.myplanet.net/pinataheart/stories.htm.
there goes my shirt, up over my head. oh my. there goes my skirt, dropping to my feet. oh my. some kind of touch, caressing my legs. oh my. i'm turning red. who could this be. oh my. -Tweet
From: Conjugate
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 18:28:33 -0400
"Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 12:35:55 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
On Sat, 06 Apr 2002 14:42:11 GMT, [email protected] (Nick) held forth, saying:
Chelsea Pensioners
??????????
Oh dear. I thought I knew the answer to this one, but I'm actually not quite sure. The Chelsea Pensioners (I beieve) are a group of war veterans (I think primarily WW1, but maybe WW2 as well, since there aren't many WW1 pensioners left). Either way (again, so I believe) they have strong associations with the Queen Mother. Perhaps Oosh could help me out here (as prospective Queen Mother, she's bound to know!)
Nick
Just to hazard a guess: One of the late Queen Mother's best-known public utterances came after Buckingham palace was bombed in WWII. She'd gone to the south part of London and viewed the terrible damage there several times, and expressed condolences. After the palace took damage, she said something like, "Well, thank goodness; it makes one feel one can look the South End in the face again." I understand that remark endeared her enormously to many of the people who suffered worse than she. So I thought Oosh's remark might have been a (particularly oblique) reference to that.
Conjugate
From: Lisala
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 07 Apr 2002 20:45:25 -0700
In article <[email protected]>, <[email protected]> wrote:
While I see the grammatical point, how is Nick's usage a male perspective????
I believe Oosh (??) found it risible since it referred to arising, that is "rising," suggesting a reference to the noble albeit masculine involuntary gesture.
From: Desdmona
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Sun, 7 Apr 2002 10:37:39 -0400
"mat twassel" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...
Checkmate
or
Le Chat a une Belle Queue
==================================================
Mat~
Please forgive me for not commenting on the previous version. The silly thing is, I thought I had. That's what I get for reading a story early and formulating my thoughts. Anyway, I'll comment on this revision instead.
I like what you've done to the beginning. It's smarter and more convincing. I have a stronger feeling about Carol. Mostly that she recognized Max. I felt it before, but even more so now. I'm convinced that any woman that remembers specific details about a guy in High School, isn't just seeing him for the first time.
You asked the question about the French. Let me say that I took Latin in High School (Ugh!) but not knowing the specific translation of the French didn't get in my way at all. I recognized a couple of words to get the gist. It was a nice touch without being too pretentious to turn me off. And that reminds me, I felt the same way about the Chess. I don't play chess, well, I've played it, maybe, three times in my life, so the importance of the moves would have been lost on me if not written in the correct way. You did it superbly. I understood.
The only thing that niggled at me is the teasing that Carol does with the bishop. It's erotic, and playful, and does a great job of showing her confidence. So I'm not quite sure why I felt it went on just a sentence too long. Something about the silliness of it maybe? Or it could just be that it's not something I would do personally, and maybe I wish I could. Or it could be that the longer it goes on, the more child-like her voice seems to be. Anyway, I suspect that this is more of a personal niggle with me rather than something that needs to be changed in the story.
Anyway, this is just such a sexy story! And having read the story that motivated it, I can honestly say, you've written a completely different story. The characters and their motivations are your own.
Des
From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 11:36:45 -0500
On 06 Apr 2002 18:55:54 GMT, [email protected] (mat twassel) wrote:
Similarly, I wonder whether the details of the actual chess game are too few or too many. My instincts tell me that they are not too far from being just right, but again I'm interested in getting the reactions of others. The model for the game, by the way, was one played by Bobby Fischer and the Dr. Max Euwe. (Love that name. I was tempted to have Meow play the French Defense (as I think I hinted a moment ago), but in a story that may lean excessively to the cute, I feared something so blatant would tip the balance. Karo-Kann might be too much as it is. In fact it is quite similar to the French, I'm told, except that Karo-Kann avoids Queen Bishop constriction.) There is a rough spot or two in the course of the game which I think could use some smoothing. I'm not sure. One little point: I'm considering changing "ICQ" to "e-mail pal" or "Internet pal" or something like that, only because I fear many readers won't know what ICQ is, though I like it because it sounds more like something chess buffs would use.
The chess details I think are good enough. Too much and non-chess players can't follow it. Too little and chess players will spot the oddities.
ICQ? What about IRC, which is harder to find users of but seems quite appropriate for serious chess buffs, especially those into the Internet early on?
Nah, ICQ is good enough as it isn't that obscure, and it is a pain to try to list any instant messenger server specifically.
Thanks in advance to all those who comment, and thanks to Sean for the material. (I strongly suspect that if I'm to use this "rewrite" beyond a workshop I'll need either to get his permission or to change a few more things. But as I said up front - this started out as an exercise, and by and large it is still an exercise; I don't expect to use it outside of this workshop.)
I've read Sean's story and I think that you're take on it is almost entirely a different tale. The basic theme and the start is the same, but the rest diverges. Of course, I always recommend getting permission out of politeness if nothing else.
Jeff:
You're right: that is, probably few cities of any size have a woman as chess champion. Is the story's credibility strained enough thereby to make it a problem? I'd rather not make her "woman's city champion."
It is a hassle, isn't it? And a smaller town might work, but then you'd be less likely to have a 2nd chess club.
Chess is rather non-sexist at the championship level. I can't recall any award given to best woman player. Historically the very top players have been males, but the high ranking ones are more evenly divided.
Another issue is that serious - national level competitions - requires an awfully intense dedication to the subject. There is a heck of a lot more room for flexibility outside of the certified tournaments, such as for school competitions or various local clubs.
But most of the stuff now, in the USA at least, tends to the certified (tracking ratings) competitions, for serious players. I don't know if there are any big ones to speak of which bypass the USCF.
Now, there is a trickier thing to decide: does she need to be an adult level champion, or can she be "merely" a club champ?
Not all of the good players bother with clubs. An active club may hold its own competitions, certified or not, and might not draw out the best players in the area. Any big city competition tends to get players from a wide area; my closest big city competitions are pretty close to being the same as a state level chamionship.
So if she is merely the ace of the base, so to speak, and was ace in the city school club competitions (not adults), she doesn't have to be quite so good a player, Grandmaster level or at least approaching it.
And of course there is the issue of "Max" trying to beat her, if she is that good. If he is good enough to play a game and win - even with guidance - he simply has to be a very good player himself. Ergo, someone who'd do well in the same sort of competitions, if not necessarily winning.
I know, we're getting stuck in details. There is the other issue that chess is practice-dependent. You have to do it a lot to hone the memory. Online playing maybe compensates.
Oh, as long as we're on details: what about the clock? I've never seen a serious chess match which didn't use a move clock; you must have some way to limit the time spent on moves or else the game can go on forever.
I see this woman's dress as somewhat consistent with her "You can't beat me and you can't have me, I'm just too good" attitude. But as Nick said, if she falls too easily into his arms, the story fails. Unless ....
A tease outfit. The dress alone doesn't do it, but the way she wears it - deliberate showing off rather than unconsciously - makes it so. But such an outfit can go just as well with "I want to get you all hot, so that when I want you, I won't have to do anything."
Jeff again:
I appreciate all your thoughts. I enjoyed your many observations. You're quite right: the narrator is sometimes selective about what he tells, and he doesn't tell a whole lot about himself. But I don't think he's being deceptive or duplicitous, with perhaps one or two little exceptions, and I believe that these do not violate the conventional standards of first person storytelling. He doesn't tell us that his understanding of French is much better than he let on to Carol, for example, but so what? We learn at the moment of his triumph. What exactly he means by his final remark is probably open to some interpretation.
But what more about him would you like to know besides his name, and how would it help the story? I see the most important fact about Max is his motive, and he's up front about that: he wants Carol. Okay, as you point out, there is some ambiguity there: if he had a choice between beating her at chess and having sex with her, which would he choose? I don't know. I don't really know if he knows. He'd like both. To an extent he sees both "problems" as games, and he plots accordingly. He wants her. (Okay, I do know. He'd pick her.)
The motive is the big thing. On the intro, though, I felt it was a little odd that neither of them used the other's name in conversation. I figured that if I were in that situation, at some point I'd have mentioned my partner's name.
As it is his story, it isn't unreasonable that he'd leave his own info out (the narrator doesn't have to be narcissistic) when his obsession is Carol. But her interest in him makes more sense if we get to see a little more of it. She does BTW show a little of it in her conversation, but I think that more would have been shown in the "talked over old times" part. Maybe all it needs is just a little bit more to that part, chess club or high school anecdotes which reveal a bit of mutual attraction - not just competition.
The revision did work out nice.
Jeff
Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/
There is nothing more important than petting the cat.
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From: spd3432
Re: Checkmate or Le Chat a une Belle Queue, by Mat Twassel
Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 08:33:40 -0800
What? I'm first?
Positives
1) I liked the humor. Um Vum Xum
2) It had closure. After my second reading, I understood the significance of Carol's last comment.
Drawbacks for me
1) I know the discussion was recently held, but its been 30 years since I had high school French (doesn't seem like its been that long). I wouldn't necessarily want translations embedded in the work, but do any of the on-line translators come close to the original French? If so, perhaps a link at the end of the story to that particular translator. As it is, the second title (French) isn't the same as the English, but given what she does with the bishop, I can understand how it came to be.
Sean