Fish Tank Story Comments - Between Love and Life (Excerpt)

The separator between the comment pane and the story pane is moveable. Drag it up or down if you need more room to read on the screen.

From: PleaseCain
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: 06 May 2002 21:49:52 GMT

This is a great piece of writing. The seduction is palpable, particularly the bit with her wrist and hand. Her character really emerges through her thoughts and other nice details, like her finger-ironing the wrinkles on her skirt. You have sprinkled images throughout, that help me see and feel her predicament.

My suggestions are specific and easily fixed. There are a few cases of echoing language that clunked within what is otherwise smoothly flowing prose.

"He grabbed [a glass] of tea and slung back half [a glass] before turning around to face her again."

"She heard his voice echo through the door as she closed [it], but she ignored [it]."

"She'd [burn alive] if he kept it up .... Maggie was sure she'd [burn alive]."

The following metaphor is fine, but the phrasing feels awkward:

"She ignored the buzzing in her head and - like [a Pied Piper rat] - followed him back into his house."

I'm trying to think of some other way to word this, but perhaps the word "rat" is too strong, or out of place altogether for describing an aroused and intelligent woman being romantically wooed.

Very particular improvements, I know, but you have all the basics nailed down here. This reads like a professional piece of writing, which deserves professional editing, way above my qualifications. Wonderful!

Cain

From: Conjugate
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 6 May 2002 18:18:35 -0400

"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...

The following is an excerpt from a much longer story (too long to put in the FT.) There is no actual sex in this part, but rather the slow build up of attraction between the two main characters. Is it too slow? Does it have any sizzle? Is it believable? These are some of the things I'm wondering.

A little background info: The story begins with an emergency scene where a pregnant woman has been in a car accident. The woman's baby is delivered to save both their lives. Her husband was killed in the accident. The story is really about the woman's brother (an artist) and the neonatologist that saves the baby's life.

This excerpt is 2,468 words in length. FishTank guidelines apply:

1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!

Well, here goes. I really like the characterization; I feel I know both the characters involved. And I very much liked the description of the scenery.

I might make a few small corrections. One, my bete noir, is comma usage, which is almost impeccable, but I have to pecc at it. There's a place:

"OK, Maggie but why do you care what the suits at the hospital think?"

You need a comma after Maggie, as commas set off nouns of address.

The other thing is that the word "cow-tow" should be "kowtow" unless you are referring to the dragging of a bovine behind a truck. :-)

Very nice story overall. I was very pleased with it.

Conjugate

From: Rev. Cotton Mather
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Mon, 06 May 2002 22:25:04 GMT

On Mon, 6 May 2002 12:45:48 -0400, "Desdmona" <[email protected]> is alleged to have written:

The following is an excerpt from a much longer story (too long to put in the FT.) There is no actual sex in this part, but rather the slow build up of attraction between the two main characters. Is it too slow? Does it have any sizzle? Is it believable? These are some of the things I'm wondering.

A little background info: The story begins with an emergency scene where a pregnant woman has been in a car accident. The woman's baby is delivered to save both their lives. Her husband was killed in the accident. The story is really about the woman's brother (an artist) and the neonatologist that saves the baby's life.

This excerpt is 2,468 words in length. FishTank guidelines apply:

1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!

Submissions and comments are being stored at:

http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base

Questions or comments about the FishTank can be directed to [email protected] or [email protected].

**************************************************** Between Love and Life (Excerpt) By Desdmona

Dearest Des: What you have here is the germ of a sensational story. The setup is delightful, and I can't wait to read the rest of it.

Things I liked: "The colors of the leaves had already begun to work their way through the Crayola box in shades of burnt sienna, goldenrod, and rust. The view was picturesque enough to inspire even the simplest of artists." Marvelously descriptive.

The kissing of the wrist, and the continuation, creates a lot of heat and anticipation. Very nice, indeed.

Two things to improve: you have given much more vivid descriptions to Maggie's feelings and perceptions than you have to Matt's. Conversely, you have given a much fuller physical description to Matt than you have to Maggie. I would like to see some minor rewriting to balance these out a bit more.

Secondly, I think the mood swings of both characters could be described a little more fully. Their reactions to elements in the conversation seem a little abrupt to me on a first reading.

Back many years ago, I was lying in bed with my girlfriend at the time, enjoying some post-coital relaxing as the setting sun was casting light and shadow across us. I lifted up my arm for some reason, perhaps to reach for a glass on the headboard, and my friend casually commented on how the light played on the flexion of the musculature of my forearm. She claimed that a man's arm, with its mix of better defined muscles and tendons, and veins more readily apparent, was very much an erotic sight for her, and for many girls she knew. It was a surprise to me to hear this, and I had forgotten all about it, until I read your story. It was another nice touch, and I thank you for providing the spark that rekindled that memory.

RCM

Reverend Cotton Mather
Senior Pastor,
Church of the Erotic Redemption
http://www.asstr.org/~ReverendCottonMather http://www.storiesonline.net

*Something clever is supposed to go here, I think*

From: Tesseract
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: 6 May 2002 20:03:13 -0700

"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...

I liked it. You write in a very professional manner and are a pleasure to read. You have avoided many of my pet peeves that less skilled writes don't. The grammar is good and I didn't notice any misspelling. I know these are minor technical points but not hitting them is an immediate turnoff.

You have a nice mixture of descriptive text and dialogue. Less skilled writers often elide parts of the dialogue rather than struggle to make it complete and realistic.

The pacing of the writing matches the pacing of the action. Compare it to PleaseCain's Madison where the hectic writing style matched that action.

Someone mentioned that you give a fuller description of Maggies feelings than Matt's and reverse that for the physical descriptions. I don't really see that as a problem since, even though written in the third person, we are seeing the story from her POV.

For improvements, the ones that came to mind have already been mentioned, along with some that I never thought of.

I can't wait to read the rest of it.

Tesseract, wishing he could write that well.

From: Bradley Stoke
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: 7 May 2002 00:44:41 -0700

Desdmona

Sometimes in ASSM, you read a story that is really rather more of a love story than a sex story. Nothing wrong with that. The two are supposed to come together. And there are occasions, sometimes even mentioned in sex stories, where this is the case.

This is a delightful study of how a woman can fall in love with a man. An insight into what it is that women can find attractive in men. The little dimples, the sensitivity, the lean muscles, all that sort of stuff. I feel almost like a voyeur into another world-view, but a rather more pleasant one than you often find in the world of sex fiction.

I liked the way the story evolved from its perspective of the world outside, then focused more on the tension between Matt and Maggie. The descriptions were truly delightful. Is this New England? Where the fall is world-famous? Whatever, it was truly delightful.

I also liked the pace of the story. It was unhurried. Switching backwards and forwards from Maggie's internal dialogue on Matt's lushness to the external dialogue about how terribly unethical the proposed relationship would be.

It's quite difficult to suggest improvements. Particularly, as we know that this is part of a longer story and the suggestion that the end leaves us hoping for me is more a commendation than a criticism.

Nit One: "kow-tow" not "cow-tow" (unless there's a witty joke about our bovine cousins).

Nit two: "a wistful schoolgirl"? Is that quite the expression you're looking for?

Although I am not drawn towards romantic fiction as a whole (my loss perhaps), this was pretty much what I think good romantic fiction should be like. Tension, tenderness, mystery, acute observations, delightful character studies, gentle pace, an overall tenderness.

Well done!

Bradley Stoke

From: john
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: 7 May 2002 22:00:16 -0700

Is it too slow? Does it have any
sizzle? Is it believable? These are some of the things I'm wondering.

Were this not a tank of fish, I'd rather deal with these because they are the things on the author's mind. [Well, maybe I can find positives and improvements while I ramble.]

It isn't fair. An excerpt isn't necessarily a story. It's a puzzle piece instead. A reader might have already fallen in love with Matt and Maggie, might be chomping at some bit to get them into bed already. This could be the key scene to a breathtaking plot. To say it's slow and less than sizzling [except for that dangling hand] and to carp about characters who anguish too much on moral issues that they must have faced before, well, it's meaningless. Once the puzzle piece is put in place, voila; I had it up-side-down.

I've almost done the same, submitted from a longer work. I didn't. I figured that the person stupidest about the choice of scene would be me. Because I have the whole work in my mind, whole characters in my body. When you focus on a hand [and that was lovely and , I'm guessing, in context, very, very erotic. Hand's that had just saved two lives. Caressed. Yessss. But alas it left me cold, amputated as it was from the hospital scene.] you have the arm inside your mind. It's hard to differeniate them.

If this was a "story" I think I'd have somehow started with the second paragraph and then amended the first to fit. It would be more exciting. Of course, there'd be no need to do that if there was some "Oh hell said the Dutchess as she lit her cigar" to catch our attention just before. But it isn't a story [for me], and it might not need to do that at all. It might not need to go somewhere, to do something. It can dither. It should. Perhaps.

My favourite bit: the keys! Do you remember an ancient sitcom where the petulant male storms out of the apartment (into a washroom by mistake)? Well, the keys are just as memorable.

Can I ask a stupid question? Is there a reason that the envelope is so small? Cyber space seems endless. And populated mostly with junk.

I understand why a novel would take too long to review. But a chapter? Or two? 5000 words? 10?

Enough,
John

From: Nick
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 23:57:51 GMT

Hi Des,

The two things I liked in the story are easy. The description is very lush and is carried out with an assured hand.

Maggie meandered behind the green leather couch, taking in the view from the floor-to-vaulted-ceiling window. The mid-autumn sun shone brightly on the group of trees lining either side of a running creek. The colors of the leaves had already begun to work their way through the Crayola box in shades of burnt sienna, goldenrod, and rust. The view was picturesque enough to inspire even the simplest of artists. A thick Viburnum grew close to his house; the burning bush was ablaze with color. It reminded her of an aged Merlot and of Matt's pottery. That thought was sifting through her mind as he returned from the kitchen.

I might change the 'aged Merlot' line. It's too specific, perhaps. How is an aged Merlot, different in colour from any other red wine? (perhaps oosh can help me out here), but nevertheless, I have a good picture of the bush in autumn evening.

I also liked the simmering sexuality underlying it all. They didn't need to start shagging; the anticipation was much more fun.

Maybe the contrast between her internal and external feelings needs attantion. Here, for example:

"You wash them frequently, I can smell the soap. You wear cologne that leans more toward floral scents." Matt continued to hold Maggie's hand as he spoke. "And I think you're badly in need of a full body licking."

Maggie felt dreamy and tried to focus on his dancing eyes. He'd guessed her cologne and said she had sensitive hands. That was nice. And that last part, what was it? Oh yes, in need of a full body ... "What did you say?" She jerked her hand from his; suddenly aware of how easily he had reduced her to a wistful schoolgirl. Oh, this man was good - practiced even.

"I said ..."

"Never mind! I heard what you said." Maggie was simmering now. "You think you can kiss my hand and I'll just gladly hop into bed with you?"

What is she simmering with, lust or anger? She has had the hots for him for most of the story, but because of her professional situation, she's been sending out different signals. It seems to me that a full body licking is exactly what she wants from him, so she can't really be angry. Even so, as this section draws to a close, I'm a bit confused as to what she is feeling.

With Maggie, you are clearly writing from what you know. There is nothing specific to indicate this, it is a subtle ense of assuredness in the characteriation. with Matt, however, I have the sense that you aren't. Do you know any artists? There is nothing particularly wrong with your descriptioon of him, except that he is a little idealised, perhaps, but you have two main characters - one very well drawn, the other not quite so, and that creates an imbalance.

Overall, I thoght it was a good piece of writing. Well done!

Stories at www.asstr.org/~Nick

To e-mail direct remove SPAMMY from return address.

Nick

From: celia batau
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Wed, 8 May 2002 21:23:53 -0700

hi Des and Des!

"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...

1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!

pozzie one: it was really powerful for us. we got that internal tightening skin burning that makes us want to scratch our skin off or push long heated bits of metal into our flesh to make it stop. (can you imagine a higher compliment than that? ;)

pozzie two: maggie's pov was so human. the flow of how she thought and her feelings and the conflicting desires was really good. :)

neggie one: crayola box. it felt forced, like you couldn't think up a cleaner description to fit the really nice scene maybe? we just kept imagining ours that had all the colors scrambled and some broken and a bent up box that bits of crayon marks all over it. became a little more interested in remembering that box instead of the paragraph for a while. but maybe it's just our dissy head anyway. :(

neggie two: Matt's pushiness. it worked, but it seriously creeped us out. made us want to run billions of miles away from him. but it's also what make this part so good. and also having Maggie's emotions slipping farther and farther into him, and we just could so much believe he knew what he was doing, you know? :) um, this was supposed to be a neggie right? um, he was creepy. yeah. but it worked ok? :)

uh, maybe we shouldn't have made a response tonight huh? night. alone in the house. dog barking outside. just ate a whole candy necklace. not a pretty foundation to put a sense-making reply to. :) but we liked your submission so much! :)

ok. we said it. :)

-cb (not that kind of submission. :)

**************************************************** Between Love and Life (Excerpt) By Desdmona

From: Selena Jardine
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: 9 May 2002 20:58:15 -0700

"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...

The following is an excerpt from a much longer story (too long to put in the FT.) There is no actual sex in this part, but rather the slow build up of attraction between the two main characters. Is it too slow? Does it have any sizzle? Is it believable? These are some of the things I'm wondering.

This excerpt is 2,468 words in length. FishTank guidelines apply:

1) 2 positive comments
2) 2 suggestions for improvement
3) Try not to repeat!

Submissions and comments are being stored at:

http://www.asstr.org/~Desdmona/FishTank/base

Questions or comments about the FishTank can be directed to [email protected] or [email protected].

**************************************************** Between Love and Life (Excerpt) By Desdmona

This was a lovely piece that I really enjoyed reading.

I do think that you might consider the pace. This stands beautifully on its own, but if the story is really about two completely different people, this might be a bit much time to spend on Maggie and Matt and their mutual seduction, as much fun as it is to follow them through it. I think all you would have to do is let Maggie be a little less resistant. It isn't clear even to her why she is so resistant; she is unable to articulate it either to herself or to Matt. Let her go a little faster, and I think you'll wind up with a tighter piece.

Nitpicks:

1) Maggie seems to be very moody, swinging from anger to cheeriness to melting lust to bristling fury all in the course of a few minutes. What the heck did Matt spike the tea with? If she's a self-assured adult physician, she might find herself a bit more even-keeled. Not much, because she's off-balance owing to the way she feels about Matt, but maybe a little.

Matt threw his hands up in the air and turned away from her. He grabbed a glass of tea and slung back half a glass before turning around to face her again. "Maggie, we're both single adults. We're not doing anything wrong."

"Slinging back" usually refers to an alcoholic drink. I almost expected you to say that he threw the glass. It startled me in reference to tea. This is really, really a nit!

"It could appear that we are."

"By who? People at the hospital? Bureaucrats?" Matt raked his hand through his hair before continuing.

"It could appear ..." should be followed by "To who?" (or really "To whom?" but Matt might not say that.) Another tiny nit.

Nice moments: There are so many it's hard to be specific enough!

1) I liked the easy banter. The conversation about balding and vanity was fun. You have a good ear for dialogue.

2) The humor of the piece was evident and enjoyable. It's not often that characters of this kind get to laugh at themselves, and it was fun that these guys did. I hope they continue to, straight into the bedroom.

More, more!

Selena
[email protected]
.

From: Desdmona
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Sun, 12 May 2002 13:31:39 -0400

Between Love and Life
By Desdmona

First, let me say thanks to all of you who participated in the FishTank this week. I think it's challenging to be plopped down in the middle of a story and try to ferret out pros and cons. Challenging, yes, but now impossible, as you've all shown so well. A special note of thanks to the troopers who make no bones about MF romance not being your cup of tea, but made the effort to participate anyway (Celia, Bradley, Others). A classy bunch we have here!

The story style is specific to romance novels. So I could argue that certain things such as, Maggie's resistance to Matt, even though we all know she obviously wants what he's offering, the anguishing over moral issues, and the character's mood swings are text book romance novel stuff. But I have to question myself, do I really want to write something that just falls into a mold, or do I want to try to be more unique? I suppose that question is better answered while thinking about my plans for the completed story. That' s still up in the air. Writing in a mold might tend to sell better in certain markets (wishful thinking, I know.) However, my inclination is, I don't want to slip into any mold, so thanks particularly to John, Nick, Rev. Mather and Selena for bringing these points to light.

Specific items such as word usage, punctuation, and misspellings are always helpful. It's a constant battle for me to learn to write in my own native tongue. Kowtow, huh, I'm trying to decide if I'd ever seen the word in print before, surely I have, I've heard it a lot, even used it on occasion, but I can't remember reading it. So, I'll plead ignorance and promise not to make that mistake again.

And now, after having to confess my ignorance, I have to plead forgiveness from my proofreader. It seems the majority of mistakes that were brought to light, he had picked up and I missed his markings on my rewrite. (Use a red pen, dang it!) But anyway, thanks Mat, Conjugate, Selena, Bradley, and Cain. I wish I could promise not to make these mistakes again, but alas! It's almost a guarantee that I will. [sigh!]

I'm wondering about the idea that more attention was given to Maggie's feelings and Matt's physical description. I think because even though this isn't first person, it's still Maggie's POV. So, to do otherwise in this particular scene might be wrong. However, there are scenes in the story that are Matt's POV, and I'm wondering if the opposite is true in those scenes. I 'll have to take a look. I might even trouble one or more of you to take a gander and see if I succeeded in bringing Matt's personality to light. Thanks Rev. Mather and Nick for keeping me on my toes!

A point or two more: wistful schoolgirl, aged Merlot, and Pied Piper rat. You're right, Bradley, "wistful schoolgirl" definitely is not the phrase I was looking for, not only is it cliche, but it's completely the wrong image. Nick, I have no idea if there's much difference in color in the ages of Merlot. Why do you suppose I used the word aged? Hmm - this is one of those things I really like about the FishTank - the little things being brought to light that make you think more about every word you use. And finally, Pied Piper rat, Mat thinks I should get rid of it all together, and Cain thinks it's the word "rat" that needs to be tempered. What the Pied Piper says to me is a sort of following, following almost mindlessly, and yet it's not mindlessly, because you don't want to follow, but you do because it's too appealing not to. The fact that the followers happened to be rats in the Piper's case is a bit icky! So what if I use something like Pied Piper's devotee? I don't know. I'm not sure this works either. More to think about! Ugh!

So thank you, Cain, Mat, Conjugate, Rev. Mather, John, Tesseract, Bradley, Nick, Celia, and Selena for you words of encouragement (I needed these for a little motivation) and your thought-provoking ideas (I needed these to keep me from getting lazy!)

Oops! Almost forgot, John~ there's a couple of reasons we limit the word count in the FishTank, one because of character space allowed in AOL newsgroup posts, and another is just for brevity of reading for FishTank contributors. The word count we chose was 5,000. This is only a guideline. Longer works have been presented. Hope this helps!

Oh yeah, oh yeah! Celia~ the crayon box image you have is so different from what I see and speaks marvelously to our perspectives. So, I hope you don't mind if I refuse to take that part out of my story, but love the fact that it conjurs up something completely different for you. In fact, I think you should expand on your crayola box image and use it for inspiration. It's a poignant representation!

OK! Now I'm done!
Des

From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: 12 May 2002 23:46:55 -0700

"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:

What the Pied Piper says to me is a sort of following, following almost mindlessly, and yet it's not mindlessly, because you don't want to follow, but you do because it's too appealing not to. The fact that the followers happened to be rats in the Piper's case is a bit icky! So what if I use something like Pied Piper's devotee? I don't know. I'm not sure this works either. More to think about! Ugh!

Well, at the end of the story he also got children to follow him; that might be a better image. I don't like "Pied Piper child," though. "Pied Piper's child" is marginally better, but if it were me, I think I would rephrase that interjection to "like a child enthralled by the Pied Piper's flute." That might be a bit too wordy for your style, though. Later,
Jacques

From: Nick
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Thu, 16 May 2002 23:16:45 GMT

On Sun, 12 May 2002 13:31:39 -0400, "Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote:

The story style is specific to romance novels. So I could argue that certain things such as, Maggie's resistance to Matt, even though we all know she obviously wants what he's offering, the anguishing over moral issues, and the character's mood swings are text book romance novel stuff. But I have to question myself, do I really want to write something that just falls into a mold, or do I want to try to be more unique? I suppose that question is better answered while thinking about my plans for the completed story. That' s still up in the air. Writing in a mold might tend to sell better in certain markets (wishful thinking, I know.) However, my inclination is, I don't want to slip into any mold, so thanks particularly to John, Nick, Rev. Mather and Selena for bringing these points to light.

Ah, now hold it right there! I dont know if this bears much relation, but you've brought to the fore something that's been niggling away in the back of my mind for ages.

The question is about focus, I guess. I've written a number of short stories over the years, and each one has been inspired by whatever took my fancy at the time. There is no specific favourite genre, nor is there even a defined style (though I suppose each one has a hallmark of mine).

Thing is, when you ask about writing romance, or something more unique, you seem to be looking for a niche to settle down in and develop. I don't think your issues are exactly the same as mine, and I'm not even sure how they might be defined, except in terms of finding that niche.

Now is this something that writers come to after a bit of experience, or is it just completely different for everyone?

Is there anyone out there who can relate, at all, to what I'm trying to say! Stories at www.asstr.org/~Nick

To e-mail direct remove SPAMMY from return address.

Nick

From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 13:03:03 -0500

On Thu, 16 May 2002 23:16:45 GMT, [email protected] (Nick) wrote:

On Sun, 12 May 2002 13:31:39 -0400, "Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote:

The story style is specific to romance novels. So I could argue that certain things such as, Maggie's resistance to Matt, even though we all know she obviously wants what he's offering, the anguishing over moral issues, and the character's mood swings are text book romance novel stuff. But I have to question myself, do I really want to write something that just falls into a mold, or do I want to try to be more unique? I suppose that question is better answered while thinking about my plans for the completed story. That' s still up in the air. Writing in a mold might tend to sell better in certain markets (wishful thinking, I know.) However, my inclination is, I don't want to slip into any mold, so thanks particularly to John, Nick, Rev. Mather and Selena for bringing these points to light.

Ah, now hold it right there! I dont know if this bears much relation, but you've brought to the fore something that's been niggling away in the back of my mind for ages.

The question is about focus, I guess. I've written a number of short stories over the years, and each one has been inspired by whatever took my fancy at the time. There is no specific favourite genre, nor is there even a defined style (though I suppose each one has a hallmark of mine).

Thing is, when you ask about writing romance, or something more unique, you seem to be looking for a niche to settle down in and develop. I don't think your issues are exactly the same as mine, and I'm not even sure how they might be defined, except in terms of finding that niche.

Now is this something that writers come to after a bit of experience, or is it just completely different for everyone?

Is there anyone out there who can relate, at all, to what I'm trying to say!

Yes. But I haven't found a desire to fit into a particular niche. I do think that going too far outside certain parameters, though, might upset my fans.

Some people solve that latter problem in diversity by using more than one nym. It doens't even matter if your fans know that all are the same person, as long as they know that "Joe Love" (for example) writes romance stories and "Father Joey" (for example) has all of the pedo BDSM stories.

Hmm, or maybe not. Too far afield and the fans of one might be upset that their "good author" would write such squicky stories.

Anyway, I could see trying to set up a place for just certain sorts of stories, and do something to make sure that readers know that your stories all fit into that mold.

Jeff

Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/

There is nothing more important than petting the cat.

From: Nick
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Fri, 17 May 2002 19:34:02 GMT

On Fri, 17 May 2002 13:03:03 -0500, Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote:

Is there anyone out there who can relate, at all, to what I'm trying to say!

Yes. But I haven't found a desire to fit into a particular niche. I do think that going too far outside certain parameters, though, might upset my fans.

I think what I mean is best illustrated by shopping for a new jacket, say. You can try a few on, and they look ok, but then you find one you really feel comfortable with, and you wear it for years. - or until the zip wears out.

Some people solve that latter problem in diversity by using more than one nym. It doens't even matter if your fans know that all are the same person, as long as they know that "Joe Love" (for example) writes romance stories and "Father Joey" (for example) has all of the pedo BDSM stories.

Hmm, or maybe not. Too far afield and the fans of one might be upset that their "good author" would write such squicky stories.

Neve, never be afraid of your fans. I was, and look where it got me. I have none now, and I feel much better for it!

Stories at www.asstr.org/~Nick

To e-mail direct remove SPAMMY from return address.

Nick

From: Jacques LeBlanc
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: 17 May 2002 17:59:41 -0700

Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in message news:

Hmm, or maybe not. Too far afield and the fans of one might be upset that their "good author" would write such squicky stories.

I think that might depend on whether they meant "good" in terms of talent or morality. Later,
Jacques

From: Tesseract
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: 17 May 2002 22:05:32 -0700

[email protected] (Jacques LeBlanc) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ...

"Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news: What the Pied Piper says to me is a sort of following, following almost mindlessly, and yet it's not mindlessly, because you don't want to follow, but you do because it's too appealing not to. The fact that the followers happened to be rats in the Piper's case is a bit icky! So what if I use something like Pied Piper's devotee? I don't know. I'm not sure this works either. More to think about! Ugh!

Well, at the end of the story he also got children to follow him; that might be a better image. I don't like "Pied Piper child," though. "Pied Piper's child" is marginally better, but if it were me, I think I would rephrase that interjection to "like a child enthralled by the Pied Piper's flute." That might be a bit too wordy for your style, though. Later,
Jacques

"She ignored the buzzing in her head
and - like a Pied Piper rat - followed him back into his house."

Maybe something like:
" ... and, as though he were the Pied Piper, followed ..."

Tesseract, just trying to help.

From: Conjugate
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 17:11:03 -0400

"Tesseract" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...

[email protected] (Jacques LeBlanc) wrote in message news:<[email protected]> ... "Desdmona" <[email protected]> wrote in message news: What the Pied Piper says to me is a sort of following, following almost mindlessly, and yet it's not mindlessly, because you don't want to

follow, but

you do because it's too appealing not to. The fact that the followers happened to be rats in the Piper's case is a bit icky! So what if I use

something like

Pied Piper's devotee? I don't know. I'm not sure this works either. More to think about! Ugh!

Well, at the end of the story he also got children to follow him; that might be a better image. I don't like "Pied Piper child," though. "Pied Piper's child" is marginally better, but if it were me, I think I would rephrase that interjection to "like a child enthralled by the Pied Piper's flute." That might be a bit too wordy for your style, though. Later,
Jacques

"She ignored the buzzing in her head
and - like a Pied Piper rat - followed him back into his house."

Maybe something like:
" ... and, as though he were the Pied Piper, followed ..."

Or, " ... and, like a child behind the Pied Piper, followed ..."

Conjugate
also just trying to help

From: Desdmona
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Sat, 18 May 2002 23:21:13 -0400

I think

I would rephrase that interjection to "like a child enthralled by the Pied Piper's flute." That might be a bit too wordy for your style, though. Later,
Jacques

"She ignored the buzzing in her head and - like a Pied Piper rat - followed him back into his house."

Maybe something like:
" ... and, as though he were the Pied Piper, followed ..."

Or, " ... and, like a child behind the Pied Piper, followed ..."

Conjugate
also just trying to help

Jacques, Tesseract, and Conjugate~

Thank you all for the suggestions. I like all three much better than what I had originally written. You've given me food for thought and a solution to keep the Pied Piper and get rid of the rat.

I like that!

Des

From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 07:11:59 -0500

On Fri, 17 May 2002 19:34:02 GMT, [email protected] (Nick) wrote:

On Fri, 17 May 2002 13:03:03 -0500, Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote:

Is there anyone out there who can relate, at all, to what I'm trying to say!

Yes. But I haven't found a desire to fit into a particular niche. I do think that going too far outside certain parameters, though, might upset my fans.

I think what I mean is best illustrated by shopping for a new jacket, say. You can try a few on, and they look ok, but then you find one you really feel comfortable with, and you wear it for years. - or until the zip wears out.

I could see that happening.

But if my tastes in fantasies and stories haven't narrowed after a lot of time thinking them up, it doesn't seem likely that my story themes would.

Some people solve that latter problem in diversity by using more than one nym. It doens't even matter if your fans know that all are the same person, as long as they know that "Joe Love" (for example) writes romance stories and "Father Joey" (for example) has all of the pedo BDSM stories.

Hmm, or maybe not. Too far afield and the fans of one might be upset that their "good author" would write such squicky stories.

Neve, never be afraid of your fans. I was, and look where it got me. I have none now, and I feel much better for it!

Afraid, not really. Wanting to keep the respect of two very different sets of fan groups, though, might make it a little easier to separate your identity in dealing with them.

If print authors can do so, I can't see why it wouldn't work for sex story authors.

Jeff

Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/

There is nothing more important than petting the cat.

From: Jeff Zephyr
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Sun, 19 May 2002 07:12:11 -0500

On 17 May 2002 17:59:41 -0700, [email protected] (Jacques LeBlanc) wrote:

Jeff Zephyr <[email protected]> wrote in message news:

Hmm, or maybe not. Too far afield and the fans of one might be upset that their "good author" would write such squicky stories.

I think that might depend on whether they meant "good" in terms of talent or morality.

Morals, tastes, something like that. Not talent.

Hmm, could a talented author easily write stories which lacked any sign of their talent?

Jeff

Web site at http://www.asstr.org/~jeffzephyr/ For FTP, ftp://ftp.asstr.org/pub/Authors/jeffzephyr/

There is nothing more important than petting the cat.

From: Desert Don
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: 13 Jul 2002 03:21:09 -0700

Just doing a bit of lurking and ran across your story and comments in the FT: perhaps I can contribute?

Selena:
Maggie seems to be very moody, swinging from anger to cheeriness to melting lust to bristling fury all in the course of a few minutes. What the heck did Matt spike the tea with? If she's a self-assured adult physician, she might find herself a bit more even-keeled. Not much, because she's off-balance owing to the way she feels about Matt, but maybe a little.

I don't have a problem with this situation. Maggie's profession makes her behave like a self-assured physician in her working milieu but she is still human and subject to her hormones. Her profession requires her to exercise control of the emotions conjured. When the pressure becomes too great she experiences a feeling of losing control and she reacts with anger at her own failure, confusion due to the insecurity of her position - a lack of information on how much ethical risk she may be taking and frustration with the emotions Matt is stroking. She wants time to get her head straight and Matt is pushing; so she strikes out blindly - thus the rapid-fire mix of emotions expressed. The 'spike' is internal and consequently all the more difficult to deal with.

Celia: neggie one: crayola box. it felt forced, like you couldn't think up a cleaner description to fit the really nice scene maybe? we just kept imagining ours that had all the colors scrambled and some broken and a bent up box that bits of crayon marks all over it. became a little more interested in remembering that box instead of the paragraph for a while. but maybe it's just our dissy head anyway. :(

If you want to continue with the Crayola box imagery - how about a

NEW box of crayons i.e. the leaves had just opened a new box of Crayola colors and were beginning to work their way through starting with shades of .... I always had a possessive thrill and sense of anticipation when I got a new box of crayons and opened it up to the rainbow inside so I really like the feeling your metaphor conveys. I must say Celia did throw a damper on it for a minute there. To carry the image further, I would agree with Celia later in the Fall as the leaves become brown and crinkly- THEN they resemble a broken bunch of bits and pieces and a crumpled box. Maybe in the next episode it can be a link to this scene.

PleaseCain: "She ignored the buzzing in her head and - like [a Pied Piper rat] - followed him back into his house." I'm trying to think of some other way to word this, but perhaps the word "rat" is too strong, or out of place altogether for describing an aroused and intelligent woman being romantically wooed. Des: What the Pied Piper says to me is a sort of following, following almost mindlessly, and yet it's not mindlessly, because you don't want to follow, but you do because it's too appealing not to. The fact that the followers happened to be rats in the Piper's case is a bit icky! So what if I use something like Pied Piper's devotee? I don't know. I'm not sure this works either. More to think about! Ugh!

How about using 'Pan' rather than the Pied Piper? It suits the

seduction image better. "Like a nymph to Pan's flute she followed him back ..." (I could not find any references to Pan's flute being a truly mesmerizing/compelling force but he certainly got the nymphs following him back into the bushes. <G>)

Hopefully helpful,
DD

From: Desdmona
Re: Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona
Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 21:16:34 -0400

"Desert Don" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected] ...

Just doing a bit of lurking and ran across your story and comments in the FT: perhaps I can contribute?

How about using 'Pan' rather than the Pied Piper? It suits the seduction image better. "Like a nymph to Pan's flute she followed him back ..."

I simply love this idea. Thank you!

(I could not find any references to Pan's flute being a truly mesmerizing/compelling force but he certainly got the nymphs following him back into the bushes. <G>)

And on topic! <g>

Hopefully helpful,
DD

Yes, Very! I hope this means you'll be able to take part in our group again!

Des

Comments on Between Love and Life (Excerpt), by Desdmona.

The web site does not currently support submitting comments on stories. If you want to join in the discussion on this story, come to the thread in alt.sex.stories.d and post a follow-up.