3 comments/ 8466 views/ 1 favorites Husband Went Too Far By: penpal0andrew ANDY: did you ever arm wrestle? TONYA: sure ANDY: with who? TONYA: when i was a kid - with other kids TONYA: and once with the coward TONYA: he only did it once, and wouldn't do it again TONYA: i embarrassed him ANDY: you gave it all you had? TONYA: sure did TONYA: and i beat him ANDY: did he say - wait - I did not get a chance - lets rematch? TONYA: no - what he said was that he wasn't really trying TONYA: and in the beginning, i don't think he really was TONYA: he had no confidence in my strength TONYA: and when he realized that i had strength TONYA: it was too late to over come it ANDY: did you come on really strong in the first seconds, get his arm almost down, he suddenly stopped you, and the last few inches was more of a power play? TONYA: that's exactly what happened ANDY: cool ANDY: the guy would definitely say he was not trying ANDY: but he would ALWAYS have a rematch ANDY: so am I misjudging male ego? TONYA: i don't know about all male ego, but the coward sure had huge one ANDY: the only reason why he would not immediately ask for a rematch is because he knew you were married to him and he could have one another time ANDY: i cannot imagine a guy living this down when he thought he did not give it a fair try on his part ANDY: you see my logic? TONYA: i think he was afraid that if we had a rematch, i might actually win TONYA: so long as he convinced himself that he didn't really try TONYA: his ego was still ok ANDY: i was thinking ANDY: how long did it take you to win? TONYA: it wasn't easy - it took several minutes - and we were both sweating ANDY: did he manage to get your arm back up to the straight up position? TONYA: almost, but not quite ANDY: do you think, that even though men generally have more muscle strength, that women have better endurance ANDY: noticed that the men ANDY: would just give out TONYA: oh absolutely, women have more endurance with men TONYA: than men - especially sexually ANDY: so what happened was that after struggling with coward for a few minutes, his arm sort of quivered and he lost all his strength all at once and you slammed him to the table? TONYA: that's right ANDY: and that was the ego thing that sort of freaked him out TONYA: yes ANDY: and after that, if he had asked you for a rematch his arm was wasted so he would have not won ANDY: it takes time for one to get back that from muscle fatigue TONYA: i don't know - he never asked for a rematch TONYA: but it must have turned him on ANDY: how so? TONYA: we had some really intense sex afterward ANDY: did he use that arm during sex or the other one? TONYA: he used both arms, but never one more than the other ANDY: how did your arm feel after that arm wrestling? TONYA: a little tender, but not so bad TONYA: it was tender for about a week, though ANDY: did you feel that if there was another man there equal in strength to coward, that you could have taken him on and won then? TONYA: no. as i said, i really think that i won because he under estimated my physical strength, and i caught him off guard TONYA: he worked out every day TONYA: and lifted hand weights TONYA: so i don't believe that i could have actually beat him TONYA: with all things being equal ANDY: do you think that you are as strong in the arms now as you were then? TONYA: probably about the same TONYA: well, actually, right now, perhaps not as strong TONYA: i haven't been working out much since my surgery ----------- TONYA: that's what i mean - the exertion of energy is the turn on - i want to sweat for it ANDY: let me ask you - when you were arm wrestling coward - and won - was it a HUGE turn on for you? and were you disappointed that you did not have a chance to do this more often? TONYA: in thinking back, i must have been turned on by it - i know that he was, because we had incredible sex afterwords, but i didn't really put that much thought into after that... TONYA: i am now remembering that he was always physically challenging me that way - just wrestling around the house - like trying to pin me down on the bed, or me pinning him TONYA: it just never occurred to me at the time that it was such a turn on for him ANDY: that is interesting - since i was going to ask you who came up with the idea to arm wrestle ANDY: did he come in one day and say 'lets arm wrestle?' TONYA: no. i recall that we were both sitting at the table one afternoon - he was reading the paper or something and i threw something at the paper to get his attention TONYA: he told me to stop, but i could tell that he was playful, so i continued to do it TONYA: and somehow that turned into him shoving me, playfully and i shoved him back - and he asked me just how strong i was TONYA: i said i was strong enough to kick his butt (playfully) and we arm wrestled ANDY: for me the HUGE turn on is that you are competitive and wanted to beat him arm wrestling - you did not think - oh I cannot beat him - or you did not think - if I beat him it will hurt his ego - you were just thinking I am Tonya and I am giving it all I got TONYA: that's pretty much what i was thinking --------- ANDY: let me ask you something ANDY: did coward ever cross the line with you - physically? TONYA: he tried only once. but i had already had self-defenses classes by that time, so he landed on his butt looking foolish. but he realized, in that moment, that i could have really hurt him - and that i was completely prepared to do so. ANDY: what did he try on you? ANDY: when in the marriage? ANDY: and was anything said after you judo flip (was that it) him? TONYA: we had been married maybe 6 months TONYA: there were people over - mostly his friends TONYA: and he was ordering me around all evening and it was pissing me off TONYA: so i asked him very politely, away from everyone else to stop doing that TONYA: and poo-poo'ed me as if i was just being silly TONYA: but other people noticed, and folks began to leave shortly after that TONYA: so when the last person had left, and i was cleaning up i told him again that i did not appreciate the way he was attempting to order me around TONYA: he said that i was only trying to make it difficult for him because he was having a good time and i wanted help cleaning or some such bull - basically he wasn't listening TONYA: and he picked up the remote in the living room and turned on the tv TONYA: so i picked it up and turned it off - because now im really pissed TONYA: he stands up and gets in my face, and tells me that i should never "disrespect him" in front of his friends TONYA: the coward is 6'3, about 220 lbs, so he's sure that he's intimidating the hell out of me, TONYA: and he takes my labored breathing as the beginning of a cry - which he has never seen me do TONYA: when i get angry, my voice gets lower - almost to a whisper TONYA: and i tell him, in this whisper, that he should not underestimate me - or think that i am here on this earth to serve him TONYA: he pulled back and reached up to slap me TONYA: and i caught his arm and twisted around his back TONYA: and i had his arm in this really awkward position behind him - sort of like the police hold people when they're out of control TONYA: except i am holding up higher because he's taller TONYA: and of course he does all of this threatening that if i don't let his arm go, he's going to do whatever to me TONYA: and i twist a little more TONYA: and he's cursing and screaming and threatening TONYA: and i kick the back of his leg, right above the knee (another pressure point), and he drops down to the floor TONYA: that's how he ended up on his butt ANDY: what happened next? TONYA: this is somewhat surreal because it mirrors the scenario that you and i just had this morning TONYA: while i am still holding his arm behind him in this very unnatural and painful position, TONYA: i lean over and whisper in his ear that he's going to have to learn to respect me or he's going to have trouble in his thus far peaceful home TONYA: and i let him go - by this time, he has tears streaming down his face from the pain TONYA: he limped for a week TONYA: and he favored that arm for at least 3 ANDY: question ANDY: when he fell on his butt - did not that mean you let go of his arm - unless you fell down next to him TONYA: no, i didn't let go - i held on. i just went down with him. if i hadn't, i could have broken his arm ANDY: so you landed under him? TONYA: no. when i got his leg to buckle, and he began to go down, i went down on one knee to counteract the height difference TONYA: so i ended up behind him TONYA: on one knee TONYA: still holding his arm ANDY: do you use two of your arms to hold one of his? TONYA: absolutely TONYA: initially when i reached up to block his arm from hitting me TONYA: i grabbed his wrist and twisted. his body turned as i twisted and i had to hold on with both arms to counter his strength ANDY: is it shaped like an L with his hand pointing to the back of his neck? TONYA: right TONYA: it hurts like hell - or so i have been told TONYA: and to add even more pain, you bend the wrist back as well ANDY: when he reached to slap you - was that the moment when you thought - NOW I NEED TO ACT - I do not want to be married to another Larry? TONYA: that was it. and it was not like i thought about it. something inside just snapped and i thought, "this will NOT happen to me again and he needs to know that RIGHT now" ANDY: that is precisely what I meant - in act ever since Larry you must have thought never again never again in your mind over and over ANDY: right? ANDY: so when this moment came ANDY: it was like you had lived it in your mind already ANDY: so you did not need to think TONYA: that's right ANDY: i know you so well! ANDY: question ANDY: when you were standing almost breathing at cowards back to hold his arm ANDY: how did you kick his leg so hard - was it like you need to really pull back on your leg to swing it at his leg? ANDY: i guess I am asking does one need balance and very strong legs to do this ANDY: it is not like kicking someone from a distance ANDY: where you can really put a lot of force into it TONYA: you don't need a lot of force. you have the element of surprise and if you hit right above and behind the knee, you hit a pressure point that causes a good amount of pain ANDY: i ask this because you said he was limping for a week ANDY: i can understand his arm being very wounded ANDY: so i was confused about his limp TONYA: its the pressure points that cause the most pain ANDY: what was that night like after you beat him up - did you sleep together? did you talk about it? or talk about anything? TONYA: he had nothing to say to me pretty much for almost a week. TONYA: he slept on the couch TONYA: then he got horny ANDY: was that his choice of sleeping? TONYA: yes TONYA: i never told him he had to sleep on the couch ANDY: what do you mean he got horny - he told you or you saw an erection TONYA: he came to bed on the 4th or 5th night about 1am and woke me up ANDY: did you have sex? TONYA: yes, we did ANDY: when you had sex that time and he winced from his arm being sore - what was the mood? TONYA: strangely, it was very passionate. he didn't use that arm very much ANDY: when he was being disrespectful to you, it sounded like he was not even aware he was doing it, even though it made the guests leave. so, i am wondering if he really knew he was being disrespectful to you. TONYA: that was why i forgave him - he wasn't aware of what he was doing. he was just being an ass ANDY: i asked that ANDY: because if he did not know what he did wrong - the lesson you gave him - may not have even worked ANDY: so did you follow up the physical lesson ANDY: with a verbal one ANDY: and explain to him exactly HOW to behave? TONYA: oh yes. we talked about it - at length. and it never happened again. TONYA: now mind you, he could have easily beat me up in face to face combat TONYA: but that's not his nature - to beat up on women TONYA: (only take their money) ANDY: once you had his arm behind his back there was not an option for him beating you up! ANDY: right? TONYA: not then, but i mean some other time - when he wanted to get revenge or something ------------------ ANDY: but i was thinking you would comment on:Andy: and I am sure you did not feel so great at what you did TONYA: on some level, i don't feel so great about it. but i have to honestly say that part of me wants to give the other part a high five. ANDY: i am glad that half of you is happy - I think a lot of your self hate has to do with you not being happy with your past actions - and on this one i am 100% convinced that you did the right thing TONYA: thank you. i appreciate that ANDY: what happened first arm twisting coward or the fun arm wrestling incident? TONYA: the arm wrestling came first - TONYA: which is why i believe - and so did he, that i just caught him off guard ANDY: the key to the incident which you just told me - is that he really did not know you that well - he did not know that you were angry - since you get angry so rarely ANDY: so he underestimated you ANDY: you even used those words ANDY: and it did not sink in TONYA: looks can be deceiving. i never underestimate anyone ANDY: the point I am making is that he did not know what you are like when you are angry ANDY: and you were already married 6 months ANDY: that does not leave me with a good feeling ANDY: because something as basic as how your wife is when she is angry ANDY: should be obvious before marriage ANDY: what do you think? TONYA: he never saw me angry before that TONYA: it takes quite a bit to get me angry enough to show it in that way ------------- TONYA: the interesting story: yes, that was the very first time i had ever seen the coward cry TONYA: i did assume, when i let him go, that his energy was much to spent to do anything to me TONYA: his verbal tone certainly went from antagonistic to nothing. he had no words. i also feel that part of this was his humiliation TONYA: i do not know if i knew i had control of him at that point. but i knew that i had made the point i was trying to make and that he would consider it long and hard if he ever chose to physically fight with me TONYA: i do believe that if he and i had arm wrestled regularly, that i could have won - at least some of the time. again, i have no desire to develop muscle, and that is what this activity would have done for me - in one arm. although the reality is that he never wanted to arm wrestle me again - probably for fear that i would win again TONYA: our fantasy: when i caught his arm and pulled it behind him, yes i pressed it in against his back as far as it would go TONYA: it would have worked much better if i had pressed him into a wall, but we were in the middle of the living room and i needed to think quickly. i have seen police officers use this same move and they had perpetrators up against walls TONYA: when i got him down on the floor, it was a controlled move, but i had never done it before, so when i stepped back and kicked out, i did not anticipate that he would drop so quickly TONYA: however, i had his arm pulled out at an angle, and i still had is wrist pulled up, so i still had control TONYA: i had a major advantage when he went down on the floor, as i was now taller than he was and when i pressed his arm into his back again, i leaned my weight on it TONYA: still reading remainder of fantasy ANDY: there is something curious about your statements - you keep saying you do not want to develop muscle - and yet you have incredibly strong arms. Imagine what you would be like with muscles! And you are an ideal fighter since you were thinking quickly and calmly and not in a state of confusion. I am not sure if I am turned on more by your raw power or your confidence in your success. Did you also have him bent over with you leaning over him as he was on his butt? How long did this last? I mean the holding his arm while standing, and while on the ground? TONYA: yes, i had him bent over while i was leaning on his back (which made it much easier to whisper in his ear) TONYA: this lasted probably 5 minutes - seemed longer at the time, but i don't think so. it only took about that long to apply the right amount of pressure, and he stopped struggling TONYA: the standing and holding his arm only lasted maybe 1 or 2 minutes, as i knew that if i didn't get him down on his butt,with me above him, i could not hold him for very long. ANDY: so, you were on your knees leaning your weight into him for 5 whole minutes with your face right up along side his, and you were watching the tears rolling down his face all that time? TONYA: the tears only came about the last couple of minutes. but my face was up against his. all i could hear was the both of us breathing heavily and him grunting until he finally gave up ANDY: did he ever whimper or cry out TONYA: not once TONYA: just very deep grunts ANDY: how did you know he gave up? TONYA: he stopped struggling. i held on a bit longer after that and whispered in his ear. and that's when the tears began to fall TONYA: struggling only increases the pain ANDY: did you ever feel your own physical strength wavering? TONYA: no. i had major adrenaline rush ANDY: did you feel powerful during it? TONYA: i did feel power. it was amazing - and frightening, because i never thought myself actually capable of such a thing, even though i replayed such instances over and over in my mind when i left Larry ANDY: the feeling of power is said to be a high like an orgasm is a high. And yet your moralistic mind was still making you feel frightened at your own feelings. Is that correct? TONYA: yes ANDY: all of what I just wrote? TONYA: it was an incredible feeling, but it didn't come close to orgasmic. and yes my mind was making feel frightened about it ANDY: so, were you scared that you might cause a broken arm? TONYA: i wasn't really thinking that way at the time, although the thought later crossed my mind. and i am very glad that i didn't apply more pressure ANDY: you seem to be totally in control of yourself at that time - only using the minimum of force to convince him to give up. Is that correct? TONYA: i don't know how in control i was. it was like my instincts and my fright took over. i felt that i was using a little more than a minimum amount of force, but i know that i could have applied more ---------------- ANDY: if someone placed you in a situation where you had to fight, would you be prepared to kill if necessary? TONYA: yes ANDY: would be resolved to the fact that you may lose your life (meaning you will not panic) TONYA: yes ------------ ANDY: what did you think of the #2 one. I contend that those were not tears of pain or humiliation. But tears from deep inside his soul as his lifelong feeling of invincibility was swept away leaving him bare. TONYA: that's such a deep thought ------------- ANDY: what was later said about that incident? TONYA: we never spoke of it again - not one word ------------- ANDY: what is on my mind - did his behavior and demeanor change from before and after you beat him up? TONYA: he was not so cocky anymore - at least not around me ANDY: was there a look you gave him - that would tame him around you? TONYA: that wasn't necessary TONYA: he had always been cocky, but never towards me until his friends were over that night Husband Went Too Far TONYA: after that incident, he was never cocky around me again ANDY: do you know from other people if he was cocky around them after that incident? TONYA: no. he was sort of a jealous type and most of his friends were male. he had one close friend that made passes at me behind his back but for the most part they were decent guys - but i would never have spoken with them w/o coward around TONYA: unless they called the house or something when he wasn't there ANDY: so you really do not know - i am thinking that if you had been on good terms with others in his life, they would have said that M has mellowed out TONYA: one of his sisters once told me that she didn't like the way i had "changed" him. i didn't ask what she meant because she never liked me and thought that i was "snooty" ANDY: at what point in time did she say that you changed him? TONYA: we had been married almost a year. ANDY: i am thinking that M grew up being what I call the 'alpha male' in his groups of friends. And that he always regarded himself as invincible and never lost a physical fight. And you literally broke his spirit - and that is what his sister was referring to. TONYA: so do you think he became a coward because i broke his spirit? --------------- TONYA: we were married April 13, 2001. the incident occurred around Sept/Oct '01. I found out i was pregnant in Feb '02; he slinked away Nov/Dec '02. Very short history together ----------- ANDY: I would like to clarify the 5 minutes you were on the floor with coward holding back his arm ANDY: first he struggled ANDY: then he stopped ANDY: then he cried ANDY: then you whispered to him ANDY: you let him cry some more ANDY: then you let him go ANDY: is this correct? TONYA: yes ANDY: thanks ANDY: for how long (minutes) was his tears flowing? TONYA: perhaps a couple of minutes while i was there. he may have cried longer after i left, but i took a shower and went to bed, so i cannot say for certain ANDY: so you let him go ANDY: and did he just fall to the floor at that point? or get up? TONYA: he was already on the floor, leaning forward, with my weight against him. when i got up, he stayed in that position, except he held his arm - and he was still breathing hard - as if he was angry ANDY: were you scared he would get up and attack you? TONYA: not at all. i knew i had made my point. and even if i hadn't, i was quite prepared to do whatever necessary to make sure i had made my point - and i knew he knew that too ANDY: of course ANDY: how long did you look at him before walking up to shower? TONYA: i didn't look at him at all. i got up and walked away. i was completely prepared to die or go to prison, rather than be in another abusive relationship ANDY: was that your thought while in the shower - that you did what you had to do to not be abused again? sort of like a firm resolve stayed with you as the water fell over you? TONYA: yes, that's a perfect description of how i felt ANDY: was there a point before you went to sleep where you felt compassion and snuck downstairs to see how he was doing? TONYA: no ANDY: so at what point did you stop feeling filled with anger? TONYA: my anger was over once i let him go ANDY: i thought anger lasted well into the shower - maybe we define anger differently. Lets say that the RAGE left when he let him go, and the anger stayed ANDY: once the anger is gone, then compassion comes ANDY: I know you ANDY: so when did that anger leave you? ANDY: back up - when you whispered to coward as he was crying - were you waiting for a verbal reply? TONYA: no. i knew he wasn't going to respond TONYA: i suppose the last of my anger was washed away in the shower ANDY: how long a shower - was it unusually long? TONYA: not for me - maybe 10-15 minutes ANDY: did you have trouble falling asleep that night? TONYA: no ANDY: so your mind was not troubled by what happened and you did not feel sleeping alone was distracting ANDY: how come? ANDY: or was it the reaction to the adrenaline ANDY: that got you so tired ANDY: that you fell to sleep TONYA: all i can say about that night is that i slept very calmly and very peacefully ANDY: i am wondering if that feeling how your own physical power was like a comfort to you. Since Larry you never knew if you had it in you to stop someone from physically abusing you. And this was the demonstration of that. So, you felt relieved, and more secure. ANDY: is that it? TONYA: Andy, i just don't know. i realize now that it was the first and last time i have ever felt completely at peace with myself --------------- ANDY: yes - you knew he needed pride? TONYA: i have always believed that a man thrives on his pride, and i have never wanted to do anything to hurt that - not to take away the pride he had in himself. for some men, that's really all that they have - and its a very delicate and precious thing TONYA: esp. for black men TONYA: to feel respected ANDY: this is great ANDY: so after he understood - you loved him and accepted him and were affectionate to him ANDY: i think this is how all relationships should be TONYA: that's exactly how it was ------------- ANDY: are you right handed or left handed? TONYA: right ANDY: what about coward? TONYA: right ----------- ANDY: for example, if I did what coward did ANDY: and order you to get everyone drinks ANDY: and food ANDY: you would simply refuse ANDY: you would stand there and say 'get it yourself ANDY: right? TONYA: in response to that, let me make a distinction ANDY: i am here TONYA: if you ASKED me to do these things, I would do them. if coward had continued to ASK me, i would have continued to do them. i have no problem with that ANDY: what were his exact words? ANDY: you never said TONYA: i mentioned it, vaguely: 'get this', 'do that' 'pick that up' 'bring me this/that' - and each time i would leave the room so he could enjoy his "boys club" he'd yell for me to come back and do something else ----------- ANDY: was it physically difficult to hold his arm behind his back as he was threatening you? ANDY: was it taxing your strength? TONYA: of course it was ANDY: so that is why you dropped to the ground ANDY: since you knew instinctively ANDY: that this was far more control for you ANDY: right? ANDY: the key word here - instinctively TONYA: i did know that i could not hold him that way for very long, so i had to drop him to the floor to gain leverage. ANDY: but you were never in a fight before AND you had no interest in such things ANDY: so that whole concept was instinctive TONYA: but you forget that i had self defense class ANDY: did they teach you that there? TONYA: absolutely. the main focus was that Everybody's strength is limited -from the largest to the smallest. so when you attempt any physical confrontation, it is always best to gain leverage as fast as you an TONYA: can TONYA: you get leverage, you gain control - you wont have to use as much strength ------------- TONYA: when i fought with him, he was reaching up to slap me. i grabbed his arm and twisted it around his back, pressing his elbow into his back, while pushing his wrist back, holding the pressure point on his wrist while applying as much pressure as i could. no, i did not try this as a child - i did not fight as a kid. whatever technique i learned i learned through a class ANDY: what angle was his hand at? now it seems like a 3-D thing - with one hand you pushed his elbow in - and the other hand you had on his wrist . and you pulled that back. right? TONYA: i pushed his elbow in with my upper body, while twisting his wrist back with my hand. TONYA: i do not see how it would be possible for him to throw you back with the arm you are trying to twist - there wont be that much strength in it from that direction - unless you failed to get behind his back and he had momentum when pushing you from the front r the side. -------------- ANDY: when you grabbed his arm and first took him on - you KNEW that you would beat him - or do whatever it took to do so. You were so DETERMINED. You will was this huge force ANDY: right? TONYA: you're right ANDY: and when you were pressing your body against his back pressing him down as he sat there, using all your might to press his arm against his back - and your face was next to him - you were thinking over and over to yourself - I am in control. I am going to beat him. And when those tears came, tears that you never saw before - You KNEW in your inner soul that he was beaten. This is making me red in the face typing this. TONYA: yes, i knew ANDY: and you must have known that you had this new power over him, because he was never beaten up before TONYA: i knew ------------- TONYA: I was never cheek to cheek with him during this situation. I was leaning on his arm, which was pressed against his back, with his wrist pulled back, using all of my strength to hold him. I leaned forward, using my body to press his arm deeper into his back and leaned down to the back of his ear and whispered to him. My lips touched the back of his ear as I whispered, and I could see the tears rolling down his face from that position. I never felt them; I was never cheek to cheek with him. ---------- TONYA: NO. I was not proud of what I had done. Initially, I felt some exhilaration and utter surprise at what I had done. I had a major adrenaline rush. I felt the muscles in my arms working overtime and straining and perhaps even the smallest hint of pain from this strain, but the adrenaline rush was so powerful that I looked at this as minor. My heart was racing faster than I have ever felt it before, as if it would pump out of my chest, and, as I leaned in closer to put my weight on his back, I recall thinking that he could probably feel my heart beating so fast and he may take that as a sign that he may be able to now overpower me, so I tightened my already taut grip on his arm and his wrist. Because I was so close to him - my chest against his back, I realized that it was not simply my heart beating so fast - it was his. I could feel his heart beat, as his entire body moved slightly with each beat. I cold see the veins in his neck pulsing out. I could smell his perspiration, mixed with my own. His breathing was rapid, as was my own, as if we were tangled in some passionate love making orgasmic embrace. TONYA: When he first began crying, I didn't notice. The only sounds in the room was labored breathing - his and mine. Then I heard him sniffle. I felt his body move ever-so-slightly with the smallest of sobs. That was it. No great sobs. Just an occasional sniffle. And his crying only came after I had whispered in his ear. At that moment, I felt extremely low. This is the man that I love - that I have made love to many times. A man that I was truly IN love with, and would have done anything for. He was proud of his body and of his great strength. He felt good doing the "heavy" work. He felt good that he could defend me against anyone if necessary. He took pride in the fact, that, no matter what, he could physically defend his wife against any adversary, large or small. I had reduced him. I had taken that away from him - all in course of no more than 5 or 10 minutes. I felt no power in that. TONYA: What does a man have, when you take away his pride? Not much. I now find it comical that he even hung around for the next year. Perhaps he was plotting and planning his escape. I'll never know. The fact is, I took away his pride. When he left, the way he left - it's quite appropriate, don't you think? That is why is the coward. TONYA: I felt low for finding it necessary to sink to such a level as physical battle. And I felt angry with him, for forcing me to. I pray that I will never have the need of such a physical confrontation, and I pray that I will never be angry enough to even consider such a thing. ------------- TONYA: I felt safe and secure the first night and all of the following nights. The first night, I suppose there was also exhaustion mixed with my feelings of safety. I have also read somewhere that when a powerful adrenaline rush is gone, you're extremely tired. I'm sure this added to the way I felt as well. ---------- Andy: When you and him passed each other silently around the house, did he literally avoid looking directly at you? Like did his head turn down or away? TONYA: I can't tell you if he turned his head away, because I turned mine away. I didn't want to see the defeat in his face, because now I saw him differently. Not as a weak man, but as someone that I could physically manipulate if the need arose. I know that I had lost a bit of respect for him because of that. Not a lot, mind you, but some. And I knew that he would be able to see that in my face, and I didn't want to see THAT in his face. I didn't want to take away any more than I already had. So I passed him as if I didn't see him. ------------ Andy: During these 4 days, were you ever concerned that you would be sleeping apart forever? Was there a point, where you would have invited him to your bed, if he had not come? TONYA: I wondered if our marriage was over at that point. I wondered if his pride could get beyond what had happened. I still loved him, and I wanted him, but I didn't know if he still wanted to be wanted. I braced myself for him telling me that he wanted a divorce. I expected it. I was ready for it. I was not going to invite him back to bed. He HAD to make that decision on his own. I had to leave him with that much. -------------- ANDY: you say 'do not underestimate me', and obvious provocation ANDY: this is fighting words ANDY: what did you think would happen? TONYA: i thought we would argue about it ANDY: did him raising his arm really freak you out? TONYA: you know, it was like i was watching myself, but the whole thing seemed like it was in slow motion - like i could anticipate what he was doing, and thought of a counteraction for it before he could do it. ANDY: what this tells me is that you switched into fighting Tonya at the very first signal that he was going to strike you. ANDY: what I was asking was that if you were sort of shocked that he would dare to even strike you, when you were expecting a verbal argument TONYA: i cant remember that. i didn't have time to be shocked or think about being shocked. one minute we're face to fact, the next split second, he's raising his arm to strike me ANDY: is there some signal that you sensed that he was raising his arm before it actually moved? ANDY: maybe a set of facial expression ANDY: a twitch? ANDY: the sensation of slow motion was one of the fighting modes TONYA: it was probably both. i was so keenly concentrated on him that i could see everything - and my adrenaline was really high, so i was more aware of everything ANDY: so in my estimation you were really expecting a fight - no matter what form it took even before he was going to strike you TONYA: i was expecting a verbal fight ANDY: have you had verbal fights with him like this before? TONYA: sure, we had arguments -------------