not to rain on your parade OP but people are not going to take this to heart...
a lot furrys in the fandom see the popular main stream artists as the big corporations that olny care their little clique just apply the high school formula.jocks with jocks,nerds with nerds.

Anyone can post the most heart felt,honest,intelligent,mature, argument but the fact of the matter is that people will see it as supporting the artists and you'll get responses like "fuck onta" &"adam wan sux".In reality most of the profits come from single commissions.Most of the popular "good" artists have other jobs too,most likely as graphic designer.

Summed up the internet is free reign,piracy will always happen.

However if the artists/sing/author is very fan oriented (normal person) and simply asks that people not repost their material it wont happen or it will be greatly decreased.

One of the main arguments against SOPA doesn't really have to do with piracy, it has to do with censorship. They need to find another way to deal with piracy without taking away our free speech and allowing the government to determine where we can and cannot go. Under the old SOPA before they took out the DNS blocks due to huge protests, they would have blocked sites like megaupload for piracy. Megaupload is a file storage site, and while many people do use it for pirated files, many other people use it for legitimate purposes. This would be punishing everyone (like DRM) instead of the actual pirates. This is not even going into targeting sites without them even being able to defend themselves for what users post, security threats due to dns blocking, suppressing innovation, suppressing free speech, big corporations abusing their power (false copyright notices, etc), being far too broad, and many other reasons. The bill is just a terribly written bill, as expected, since most of the senators are the far older generation who do not understand all the tech stuff like the younger folks and computer experts.

TL:DR: Most people protesting SOPA is not due to the piracy part, it's due to the bad parts of the bills that would do things like censor the web China style.

A little note about piracy itself. Just like the movie industry and music industry, if they reduce the prices to reasonable levels, maybe more of us would pay for it. This applies to artists as well, trying to sell their "art" for insane prices. A good example, go to daz3d.com, and you will have people selling models and stuff there for crazy prices. $20 for hair? Really? Or $400 for an artist commission on furaffinity? Or $30 for a dvd that cost far less to make? $20 for a 50 pack of blank cdr's (yes cd's not dvd's) because of that "tax" the industries impose on them? No thanks. While it is hypocritical, i have no remorse getting pirated things when they already make enough money. I'll pay for it if it's worth it, or good. I won't pay for something that's mediocre quality. That's my take on it

>That being said, when people on boards like this are requesting artist's image packs and commercial content to be freely distributed they aren't stealing a few bucks from a giant, wealthy company;
You know, you can only pity people who do not have a few bucks. Recently Skidd himself appeared in "GIVE ME KILIKA PACK", pitied them too and posted one of the pictures. No money, greed, whatever, you won't get anything from them.

>Most of the popular "good" artists have other jobs too,most likely as graphic designer.
Art and money. Can it coexist? Someone will lough at calling furry porn art, however, it mostly is art, artists do not do it for money, small commision fee is nothing, they like to draw furries, they do not do commissions when they do not feel to doing it, they do it because they like what they are doing. Look at the greediest furry porn site Sexyfur.com how crappy their content is compared to commissions. Why? Because it's not hobby, it's job, a job which defined number of pics with defined date when they must be completed.
As for music, publishers are not outdated, musicians can distribute their music without them, and poeple will come to their concert if their music is really good, not because of marketing campaing and that they all gay.

>Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 3 breaks sales records
Please, let them die! How can people still buy from EA and Activions? 20$ for 5 map DLC and 10$ for 5 old maps in case it's call of duty. Perhaps they are bought not for own money. I with they died, seriously, but no matter how hard I tried to pirate their production in the past (and deleting after 15 minutes), no matter how hard I ignore it now, their profits continue to grow ensuring more of this identical shit. I wonder how they will call next installment of Battlefield when number count exceeds 1941.

Movies. You know, they used to be called art too. Now it's called industry, business
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HFeNYx1kr0
You say piracy will kill movies? Or maby instead of death it will be rebirth.

As for SOPA, I hope now Americans can see true face of their government. Freedom ends where interests begin. Good luck.

Every dictator wants the right to put anyone in prison for any reason.

So whenever "an enemy" appeared, they'd just put the guy in prison.

Nowadays there's something bothering them. They just can't do that.(yet)

But with SOPA they will!

Enjoy your freedom to obey the government!
If you don't, they will find some way to put you in prison!

Your blog, your email, your homework, your kids drawings.

Who have never drawn a smiling face, a cartoon character, a car, anything like that!

With even more strict laws, EVERYONE IS A CRIMINAL until proven the innocence!

And if you say something that bothers the government or the music industry or the movie industry, YOU ARE IN TROUBLE!

Now be a good citizen and blindly obey your government!

Thinking for you for their own good!

>>852541

I just want to start by saying that this is not an attack on you personally but since your post brings up many of the most common arguments people use in support of piracy, I'd like to address them one by one with my opinion.

"They need to find another way to deal with piracy without taking away our free speech and allowing the government to determine where we can and cannot go."

first off, AGREED. We shouldn't be censored, that isn't the answer BUT internet piracy DOES do damage and it DOES need to be addressed and enforced in some way. . .SOPA is just the wrong way to go about it.

"A little note about piracy itself. Just like the movie industry and music industry, if they reduce the prices to reasonable levels, maybe more of us would pay for it."

that would be a reasonable argument if it weren't for people pirating things that cost less than a value meal at McDonalds. You go on to name several VERY extreme examples that support your argument but don't mention that many artists (like Forge Wielder) DO sell their work for VERY reasonable prices and yet they still show up on sites like this, requested and pirated. Ironically, pirates complain about the greed of giant companies and how they don't feel bad because these companies are already rich, while at the same time they are saying with their actions that a place like McDonalds is more deserving of their money for a shitty value meal than an artist who worked hard to create content they enjoy is. It's that lack of support for the little guy WHILE pumping money into these giant corporate machines that creates these monopolies we all bitch about.

"I'll pay for it if it's worth it, or good. I won't pay for something that's mediocre quality. That's my take on it"

except thats now how things work anywhere but the internet. The idea of a free-market is that people vote on what they like with their money, but you don't get to decide NOT to buy something and STILL GET THE ITEM IN QUESTION anywhere. In fact, that idea sounds absurd anywhere BUT the internet. As far as saying you won't pay for something if you don't like it or if it doesn't meet your standards of quality, that just brings up another question: if you don't like it WHY are you downloading it to begin with? People don't tend to steal things they DON'T want. Not to mention that this philosophy is slap in the face to the people actually producing content as well as their supporters: you're saying that people who like and support an artist's work should be the one's who have to pay for it while the people who deem the artist's work not worthy of their money should get it for free. That's like saying you deserve free season tickets to Chicago Bear's games because you're very critical and think they suck. . .fuck the people who like them though, they have to pay.

Now, I know some people reconcile this by saying they will pirate something and then if they like it, pay the artist. This is a nice sentiment, but to anyone willing to use this as a defense ask yourself honestly: how many times have you REALLY done this? Maybe you intended to but never got around to it, maybe it slipped your mind. Whatever the reason, it's human nature to NOT feel the need to pay for something when they ALREADY possess it. . .why do you think so many people get in trouble with credit cards.

The rest of this is a response to the other posters:

People are always complaining about the lack of much real "quality" work in the fandom yet we drive people out if we suspect they might be trying to make a buck or two providing us with content. They suddenly turn into villains hell bent on draining us of our money, when in reality most are just trying to make some money doing something they LIKE doing so they can do MORE of it instead of working 2 jobs and having no time for their "hobby"- a hobby which, without income, just becomes a time thief robbing them of their ability to pay their bills and have a life. Even if they DO have another job as a graphic designer )which I'm sure FEW do), that industry isn't exactly booming right now. It's not like having a graphic design job automatically means you suddenly have no need for other sources of income.

So yeah, SOPA sucks. I'm against because I really believe we SHOULD be able to police ourselves responsibly BUT if we can't help from taking the pie off the windowsill just because nobody is watching eventually it WILL be surrounded by government attack dogs. We can't bemoan an invasion of privacy while advocating the reasons we can't be trusted with it. Just my 2 cents.

>>4798

You bring up some nice points. I'll focus and comment on a few of them

"Ironically, pirates complain about the greed of giant companies and how they don't feel bad because these companies are already rich, while at the same time they are saying with their actions that a place like McDonalds is more deserving of their money for a shitty value meal than an artist who worked hard to create content they enjoy is."

The big difference here is, the artists are enjoying what they're doing, the mcdonalds employees are most likely not. =P

"It's that lack of support for the little guy WHILE pumping money into these giant corporate machines that creates these monopolies we all bitch about. "

You have to realize that digital art is not a good way to make money or a living. Sure its a fun hobby, but in it's current state, especially when we're talking about furaffinity porn, it just doesn't cut it. It's about equivalent to professional gaming in the U.S. Fun, time consuming, but it won't replace a real job for the vast majority. They're just hobbies to make a few extra bucks off of. Sure that might change in time, but right now, it just doesn't work. What makes digital art even tougher to make money off, is once you're dealing with the internet, piracy is expected. It's free. Human nature likes free. If it's on the net, it's going to be pirated in some way. Sure, that might be unfair to the smaller artists, but that's the reality of things.

"but you don't get to decide NOT to buy something and STILL GET THE ITEM IN QUESTION anywhere"

All of us do this. Find me someone who uses the internet who has never downloaded an mp3 before. I'm pretty sure you'd be able to count that number on one hand.

"In fact, that idea sounds absurd anywhere BUT the internet."

In the more ghetto cities, i've seen bootlegged movies, games, etc traded or given in real life for free. It happens far more than you think.

"if you don't like it WHY are you downloading it to begin with?"

A lot of times people will download an album to check it out, and more often than not, the album is pure trash. Or download something that isn't completely trash by their standards, but just not all that good to pay the price for it. This actually works both ways and helps unknown artists get recognized. Lots of artists who people never would have even known of get noticed when their stuff gets downloaded, and they started getting noticed for it.

"People don't tend to steal things they DON'T want."

A lot of pirates steal stuff for either re-selling it for their own profit, or just to have it. I will agree here that yes, that is scandalous.

"you're saying that people who like and support an artist's work should be the one's who have to pay for it while the people who deem the artist's work not worthy of their money should get it for free. That's like saying you deserve free season tickets to Chicago Bear's games because you're very critical and think they suck"

You're comparing a well known sport and corporation to digital porn. As mentioned above, digital porn is just a hobby and because of the nature of the internet, you shouldn't expect to make a good living off of it except in very rare cases. You can't download free tickets like you can with an mp3 (though there are some shady ways to still get in for free!)

"Now, I know some people reconcile this by saying they will pirate something and then if they like it, pay the artist. This is a nice sentiment, but to anyone willing to use this as a defense ask yourself honestly: how many times have you REALLY done this?"

I have a nice collection of retail x-box games, movies, etc. Movies like Avatar and The Dark Knight i felt deserved my money. But of course, i've definitely gone the other route just like the vast majority of internet users. Go around and ask people how many mp3's they downloaded, or tv shows, etc. The number more often than not will be a higher piracy ratio.

"Whatever the reason, it's human nature to NOT feel the need to pay for something when they ALREADY possess it."

It's human nature that if they see something for free, they will most likely take it. It's human nature if you see money on the ground, you will take it without bothering finding out who it belongs to. In the perfect fantasy disney world, there would be no piracy, but lets face it, that simply ain't true. Even the creators of the sopa bill and riaa/mpaa have been caught illegally downloading torrented things.

-Those are addressing those certain points, but the main reason people oppose SOPA are for those other reasons mentioned in my other post. Most people will acknowledge that piracy is getting out of hand, but a better solution needs to be found. At the same time, most people will tell you deep down they love getting shit for free. It's human nature.

>>4799 some good points, but allow me to counter-point:

Firstly, you use the word "free" quite a bit. Things that are being pirated on the internet are not "free", they are stolen, there's a difference. If you take something that isn't yours without the consent of the owner you are, by definition, stealing; people can sugarcoat it all they want but it is what it is. When people are selling digital content of any type they are not offering it to you "for free" with the option to pay, it's not a charity for you to donate money to if you feel like it, they are SELLING something and by taking it "for free" you are stealing from them. It's no different the walking into a store and stealing a DVD off the shelf.

You also make the "stealing data is different than stealing a physical item arguement". It isn't. think about it: how many "physical items" do we buy that are essentially valueless without the data/information they contain? DVD's, CD's, video games, and Blue-rays are just a 2 cent disc without the data on them. The data is what GIVES them value, its what you're ACTUALLY buying and the reason an XBOX game is $60 and not the $2 cost of the disc and packaging materials. You could even take this a step further and make this argument: when you buy a physical book you're really paying for the information in it, without that its just a valueless stack of paper bound together neatly.
You say the comparison of the Chicago Bears to digitally distributed porn doesn't make sense, I beg to differ: In both cases you are paying to see something that isn't a tangible physical object. You're correct that you can't "download" a ticket but it doesn't matter, the ticket is irrelevant anyway because you AREN'T paying for that little scrap of paper, you're paying for the right to be entertained and view a live football game.

You also re-enforce my point about pirates being partly to blame for the monopolies these giant companies have. You say you felt things like Avatar, The Dark Night, and XBOX games "deserved" your money but don't seem to show any sympathy about stealing from people just like you. This is a perfect example of how people will decide that somebody just like them, creating content they like, isn't deserving of their money but Microsoft, Warner Bros, and 20th century FOX are. Once again, theres no money for the individual creating things we like but no hesitation to use that money you DIDN'T spend supporting him/her to feed the giant money machines we will then turn around and bitch about. It's like a reverse Robin Hood.

As far as saying expecting something for nothing isn't absurd "just look at the ghetto", I honestly have no way to combat that logically. If it isn't completely obvious already that the way things are done in ghettos and crime ridden areas ISN'T something we should find acceptable I don't know how to make it so.

As far as the hobby thing, like I said, a lot of people can't afford a time-consuming hobby without SOME money coming in from it. People want good art and that requires good artists. Good artists invest ALOT of time to become better. If there is no income from the time invested the artist can't spend as much time as they would creating the content WE want because now they may need a second job to make ends-meet.

Notice I said SECOND job. I'm not implying that anybody should be trying to make a living off of Furry porn, just that
(A) IF they decide that want to try and make a few bucks on the side and
(B) IF we want what they're selling we
(C) should be paying them for it so they can afford the luxury of the TIME to make more of the art WE want instead of selling cigarettes at a gas station at 3AM.

AND YES, we are probably ALL guilty of having illegally downloaded things. My goal here isn't to single anybody out, it's to say that WE need to start policing ourselves in a responsible manner or eventually somebody WILL do it for us. The internet economy is still in it's infancy, it's completely asinine to believe that this "no rules, wild west" version of the internet will last forever. If we don't start taking accountability for our actions online we are simply BEGGING the worlds governments to come in (in the heavy-handed fashion they ALWAYS do things) and fuck everything up, including our right to privacy. We are screaming at the babysitter to go home because we're old enough to watch ourselves while simultaneously writing all over the wall in crayon.

I know why people are opposed to SOPA, I'm opposed to it for those same reasons. That being said, the internet IS the new economy and (as with anything where big money is involved) it will inevitably be policed in some way. The question just becomes how it will be policed:

Can we (A) do the majority of that policing ourselves by taking accountability for our actions and simply having some thought for how those actions affect others or do we

(B) keep begging the government and big corporations (through our thoughtless and irresponsible behavior) to come in with the equivalent of riot gear on (SOPA)

>>4800

"Firstly, you use the word "free" quite a bit. Things that are being pirated on the internet are not "free", they are stolen, there's a difference. It's no different the walking into a store and stealing a DVD off the shelf. "

A lot of people will disagree with you on this. Here's the main difference between real stealing and piracy. Say i go to your house and steal your xbox 360 or your Justin Bieber CD. You will no longer have those things. However, if i downloaded the Justin Bieber CD, the original copy remains where it is. I just have a copy of it now. If we put everyone in jail who has downloaded an mp3, there would be nobody left to steal from, because everyone would be in jail.

"The data is what GIVES them value"

While it's true that a data dvd-r has very little value without content, the value of said content would be different to everyone. A Justin Bieber album might have very little value to me, whereas that 12 year old girl down the street might value it more than her parents. That said, she'll pay full price for it, while i'll either download those few songs or not download it at all. On the same note, i'll buy a "dark knight" retail movie because that movie kicks ass, but my friend who hates batman will simply download it. Nobody can tell us what we can and cannot download. Sure if we get caught torrenting by some of those organizations, we're more than willing to accept those consequences. But then again, if you believe everyone to be punished for downloading music, that's pretty much everyone.

"You also re-enforce my point about pirates being partly to blame for the monopolies these giant companies have. You say you felt things like Avatar, The Dark Night"

Those are just examples. Not everyone is going to like the same thing. There's a lot of things i like and buy that are not "mainstream" or popular. Same with other people. And those corporations got big before the internet even existed. And of course i have no remorse for those big corporations. Oh noes! Instead of buying 30 ferraris, they can only by 28 now. They spent over $10 million lobbying politicians to maximize their profits. That's simply greed.

"If it isn't completely obvious already that the way things are done in ghettos and crime ridden areas ISN'T something we should find acceptable "

What is acceptable and non-acceptable is subjective. I would turn in a murderer in a heartbeat, but if i saw a guy selling bootlegged dvd's, i wouldn't care. Lot's of people find homosexuality unacceptable, doesn't mean it's wrong. (not saying that rampant piracy is right, but you get the point)

"As far as the hobby thing, like I said, a lot of people can't afford a time-consuming hobby without SOME money coming in from it."

A hobby is something you do for fun. If it's becoming to "time-consuming" and not "fun" for you, then it might be a good time to start up a new hobby. There's a lot of us who strive to be better artists, or better at a certain game. But we don't expect to be paid for it, especially at some of the laughably high prices some artists try to get away with.

"If there is no income from the time invested the artist can't spend as much time as they would creating the content "

Sure they can. If they like what they're doing, then the money doesn't matter. It's a hobby, not a job. Like i stated earlier, if you take furaffinity porn like being a job, the vast majority are going to be sorely disappointed.

"(C) should be paying them for it so they can afford the luxury of the TIME to make more of the art WE want instead of selling cigarettes at a gas station at 3AM."

If they are expecting to get paid for it, then it is no longer a hobby, it becomes a job, and for the reasons i listed before, not even close to a good one if you're trying to make a living off it. If it were really their hobby, they should be doing it for the sake of doing it, because they enjoy that. The money is just icing on the cake, but shouldn't be expected from everyone. Like i said earlier, if it's something that's put on the internet, it will get pirated. And the majority of us wouldn't feel bad for getting a copy of it. That's just reality. Those artists should know from the get-go this fact about the internet and what to expect from it.

"AND YES, we are probably ALL guilty of having illegally downloaded things. My goal here isn't to single anybody out, it's to say that WE need to start policing ourselves in a responsible manner or eventually somebody WILL do it for us."

This i agree with you on, but once again we need to face reality. As long as things are free, people are going to download it. People are always going to pirate. Even if they were to block sites, most pirates know how to get around that. It's impossible to stop piracy, just like it's impossible to stop drugs. Even the great firewall of china has little effect on their pirates, who can easily bypass it by things like VPN. What we're arguing is that the SOPA and PIPA bills are not the way to go about this. They need to find better ways (DMCA is a good start, it sucks clicking a link and seeing that nice sign "removed for infringing copyright content"). Censorship is not the way.

"If we don't start taking accountability for our actions online we are simply BEGGING the worlds governments to come in (in the heavy-handed fashion they ALWAYS do things) and fuck everything up, including our right to privacy."

That will eventually happen, but to the degree it will happen depends on how much we protest back. The internet can never be fully regulated and controlled unless you fully shut the whole thing down. And that most likely won't happen unless North Korea wins world war 3.

"Can we (A) do the majority of that policing ourselves by taking accountability for our actions"

Unfortunately, unless human nature changes, that probably won't happen. Like you said, change is inevitable, but it will most likely not come from the average user. The good note is that both SOPA/PIPA have loss a shitload of momentum and now the technology industry is working with politicians to come up with a suitable solution. Of course, the movie/music industry are now throwing tantrums because now instead of making $25 billion, they will make $24.5 billion.

"keep begging the government and big corporations (through our thoughtless and irresponsible behavior) to come in with the equivalent of riot gear on (SOPA)"

It seems to be the other way around. Seems all of our protesting actually slowed those bills drastically. That being said, do i feel remorse for downloading mp3's? There's no point in lying. I don't. And i can say most people you ask about this feel the exact same way.

>>4808

Well, some of your argument is well thought out, other parts of it simply amount to "I don't give a shit that people steal and other people agree so that's ok". There's really nothing more I can say, piracy advocates will go to extreme lengths to justify what they're doing. If you really think I'm suggesting everybody who downloaded an MP3 your clearly responding to your own talking points, not what I actually said. Also, again just because SOPA won't pass doesn't mean piracy doesn't need to be addressed in a responsible way. You also make the argument of subjectivity, comparing stealing to homosexuality, if you really believe these things are are comparable what can I possibly say to rationalize an argument against that. As far as what a hobby is to somebody, that's for them to define, not you. I find it ironic that you think stealing is subjective, the value of a product is decided by YOU and not it's rights holder, YET the definition of hobby is completely black and white.

I'm also aware most people WILL take your side on this but that's expected, it doesn't make it right. Taking an anti-theft stance on the internet (especially sites like this) automatically puts you in the minority. No matter what I say, you WILL find some way of justifying piracy to yourself and people will agree because they don't want to feel bad about stealing shit either, its human nature.

>>4810

"I don't give a shit that people steal and other people agree so that's ok". There's really nothing more I can say, piracy advocates will go to extreme lengths to justify what they're doing."

There's really nothing for me to justify. I know it's wrong, but like most others, don't care. The way i see it, both the music and movie industry make more than enough. So what if they can only have 20 ferrari's instead of 25. If i like the album or movie a lot, i'll buy it. But it is really hypocritical for you to look down on pirates and people who download stuff for free, while admitting to have done the same thing yourself.

"Also, again just because SOPA won't pass doesn't mean piracy doesn't need to be addressed in a responsible way."

This isn't even an issue because it currently is being addressed in a responsible way. Censorship in a country with free speech is certainly not the way to do it. Making sites responsible for what users post is definitely not the way to do it.

"You also make the argument of subjectivity, comparing stealing to homosexuality"

I'm not comparing the two. I know they are completely different subjects with completely different arguments for and against them. I was using homosexuality as an example, to make the point that just because the majority of people feel a certain way about something, doesn't make it right.

"As far as what a hobby is to somebody, that's for them to define, not you."

They can define it any way they want. I'm not here to force people to accept what a hobby is or what isn't But the fact remains, is that furaffinity porn art is not a good way to make a living monetary wise for the vast majority, and the fact that if it's something that goes on the net, it will be pirated, and it will be downloaded. They should know this beforehand. No amount of whining or arguing will stop that. I'm not trying to be a dick here, i'm just being realistic.

"the value of a product is decided by YOU and not it's rights holder"

The monetary value is always decided by the rights holder. But the value of the product and whether or not i think it's good or not, of course it's decided by me. You really would want people to tell you what to like and what not to like? Just like they have the right to overprice their products, i have the right to either buy or download them. And if i get caught? Well, then i must pay the consequences then right?

"YET the definition of hobby is completely black and white. "

It's not really black and white. I'm just saying if you expect to make money off a hobby (in this case we're talking about furaffinity art and video gaming) in the majority of cases it's not sufficient to make a decent living or replace a real job. And they shouldn't expect it to. And when it comes to digital art, you should already expect it to be pirated the minute you set it online, and people will get it for free. This is the nature of both the internet, and people in general.

"I'm also aware most people WILL take your side on this but that's expected, it doesn't make it right."

I never said it was right. Most people will tell you the same thing. But most people also will take my side, and most people will do it if they have little chance of getting caught. But let me address a few points here:

1) It's human nature to do something like this. If we see something free, we're going to get it.

2) It's very hypocritical here for you, because you yourself have said you have downloaded mps3's and other things. You're no better than the rest of us who do it.

I'll bring out the gay marriage and christian example for this one. It's like those christians who claim gay marriage will ruin the "sanctity of marriage", yet they've been divorced before themselves.

"Taking an anti-theft stance on the internet (especially sites like this) automatically puts you in the minority."

Most people in real life will tell you the same thing. They will use their mp3 players and ipads filled with illegal mp3's. Most people simply do not care. And if you ask me, the music and movie industry seem to be doing just fine, they just don't get the same maximum profits they once did. But they sure had enough to spend over $10 million in trying to get our politicians to censor the web.

"No matter what I say, you WILL find some way of justifying piracy to yourself and people will agree because they don't want to feel bad about stealing shit either, its human nature."

None of us need to justify anything. We know it's wrong, but we just don't care. The movie and music industry are still doing really good, and we are getting our free shit. But you're no different from the rest of us because you also do the same thing. And the movie/music industry's have done things just as bad as the rest of us. But then again, nobody's perfect.

>>4817
use normal imageboard citation, goddamit
>CITATION
It changes color on purpose so it could be easier too read.

>>4810
>Also, again just because SOPA won't pass
Sopa won't but PIPA will.

>>4817


Firstly, I'm not condemning anybody or "looking down on them". An admission that I'm not perfect doesn't forfeit my right to explain to people why, upon examination, I feel what I did was wrong and to counter-point the most popular pro-piracy arguments WE'VE ALL used. Not all of us are completely apathetic about everything, including our own actions. I'm simply saying that WE (as in all of us) should think about how our actions affect others. I don't see how that could possibly have anything but a positive outcome. A negative side effect of the internet is that it de-humanizes us, we tend to forget that the person on the other end of that connection is a human being- with a life, maybe a family, probably a job, and bills to pay. I'm simply asking people (including myself) to be a little more reflective in their decision making. That's certainly better than the non-solution of apathy you present. You claim piracy is a non-issue because it's already being addressed in a responsible way. I fail to see how a bunch of people with an "I don't give a shit" attitude equates to a responsible address of a problem.

Again, I'M AGAINST SOPA, EXTREMELY AGAINST IT. Why your rebuttals to my arguments contain so many condemnations of something I was never defending, I have no idea. Again, against SOPA, but yeah, I'm also against completely apathetic attitudes.

Why are you unable to avoid the most EXTREME examples to support your point? You keep bringing up things like not feeling bad that some rich executive has one less car when you know damn well that's not a rebuttal to ANYTHING I was saying. My point is that it makes no sense to me that people feel like a McDonalds value meal is more deserving of their money than somebody who worked hard to create content they like. It's a vicious cycle that goes like this:

1. Don't support independent writer, developer, artist etc. and pirate their work instead.
2. Use money you didn't spend supporting said person to buy something from a giant corporation.
3. Justify pirating the NEXT thing from independent artist, developer, writer etc. by comparing them to a giant, greedy corporation that doesn't need your money.
4. Spend money you saved on something from giant, greedy corporation that doesn't need your money.
5. Repeat

As you can see, when it's broken down that pattern of behavior is bat-shit insane.
You also bring up that anybody putting anything on the internet should know it's going to get pirated and not expect to make money off it. It's ironic that the people who understand digital content so well miss the reason its a game-changer. The reason that digital content is such an important tool is that it allows independent artists, writers, developers, musicians etc. the ability to get their work out there WITHOUT the costs of printing, distribution, production, packaging, and all that other shit that the average joe CAN'T AFFORD. But do you know who CAN afford all those things? GIANT CORPORATIONS!!!
So, by saying that people shouldn't expect to make decent money off of digital content (not just talking about furry porn) you are, in essence, saying that the ONLY people that should expect to make money off of their content are the people who can afford to sell their shit in a physical store (i.e THE COMPANIES THAT ARE ALREADY RICH AS SHIT!!!). So yeah, once again let's all bitch about giant companies while making sure they're the only ones capable of making a buck, really makes sense.

This one just kinda bugged me:
"Just like they have the right to overprice their products, i have the right to either buy or download them."

Um, no. . .you don't. It isn't illegal to do something that's within your "rights"; you're clearly mistaking the word "right" for the word "ability". Just because I'm "able" to run down the block naked doesn't mean I have the "right" to do so.

I'll just end my side of this debate by saying that I'm not trying to judge anybody, my intent is simply a healthy debate so that maybe people will examine some of the most popular arguments in support of piracy (especially piracy of independent works) and judge for themselves whether or not they really hold any water. In my opinion they don't, which is why the end argument on your side always ends up being one of "well, I just don't give a shit and neither does anybody else". Apathy. I can't even really be mad at you because you've fully admitted that you know piracy is wrong but you just don't care. . .I gotta give you points for honesty.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure me and you are the ONLY ones even reading this thread and we're obviously not going to change each other's minds (not to mention I'm pretty sure we've both exhausted all the arguments that can be made on either side). It's been fun, and I appreciate that both of us were able to debate in a relatively civil manner. That's my piece. I'll await your closing arguments if you choose to give them.

>>4820

>Woah i didn't expect anyone else to read these huge blocks of texts, but if there are, i guess i'll use citations then.

>>4822

>I feel what I did was wrong and to counter-point the most popular pro-piracy arguments

You're not countering any of the pro-piracy arguments in regards to SOPA, which is what you originally were talking about. You're talking about piracy itself, which we already both agreed was wrong with one difference. You care, i don't.

>Not all of us are completely apathetic about everything, including our own actions. I'm simply saying that WE (as in all of us) should think about how our actions affect others.

It depends on what we're talking about. If it's about murdering someone, then yeah i will be apathetic. If it's downloading an mp3 or another artists pirated work, i don't care at all, nor do the vast majority of those that download, and most definitely, if it's an already rich music/movie industry. And due to the common user having the same view as me, i think any positive result will come from the technology industry working with the politicians, which they currently are going to do.

>A negative side effect of the internet is that it de-humanizes us, we tend to forget that the person on the other end of that connection is a human being

That's the reality of the internet and being anonymous. I also feel that internet friendships are far more fragile than real-life friendships by a huge milestone. It's way different when you chill with someone irl, talk to them face to face, do things with them, etc. than simply knowing them online. As far as i know, i could be talking to a pedophile who has 10 bodies in his closet. This is why you should not take most aspects of the internet seriously.

>I'm simply asking people (including myself) to be a little more reflective in their decision making.

Because people are not reflective when it comes to piracy does not mean they are not reflective in other aspects, especially when it comes to real life.

>I fail to see how a bunch of people with an "I don't give a shit" attitude equates to a responsible address of a problem.

It's better to leave the higher ups to fix this, because as i stated, the average internet user do not care, and a lot in fact like the fact you can get what you want for free.

>Again, I'M AGAINST SOPA, EXTREMELY AGAINST IT. Why your rebuttals to my arguments contain so many condemnations of something I was never defending, I have no idea.

When did i ever say that you supported SOPA?

>You keep bringing up things like not feeling bad that some rich executive has one less car when you know damn well that's not a rebuttal to ANYTHING I was saying.

The only point you are debating is that piracy is wrong. That's the only point we've been focusing on the entire time. You aren't arguing about why most people are against SOPA, which, you originally opened the thread for. And on that one point, i simply agreed that it was wrong, but also said that i do not care.

>My point is that it makes no sense to me that people feel like a McDonalds value meal is more deserving of their money

Here you go again trying to decide what people should and should not like. That doesn't work in the real world my friend. Some people may prefer a mcdonald happy meal over a more "valuable" dish. I'd take a happy meal over sushi any day, because frankly, i hate sushi.

>You keep bringing up things like not feeling bad that some rich executive has one less car when you know damn well that's not a rebuttal to ANYTHING I was saying.

A rebuttal to what? You make points that piracy is wrong, and i agreed. I don't see a need for a rebuttal if we both agree on that.

>2. Use money you didn't spend supporting said person to buy something from a giant corporation.

I already explained earlier that some things i purchased are from both giant and non-giant corporations. What's your point here?

>3. Justify pirating the NEXT thing from independent artist, developer, writer etc

I already rebutted this by saying i don't need to justify anything because i don't care, and already went into the artist argument of what they should expect to get from digital art. Same could be said of writers.

>As you can see, when it's broken down that pattern of behavior is bat-shit insane.

It's behavior of you trying to put words into my mouth rather than reading what i wrote =)

>The reason that digital content is such an important tool is that it allows independent artists, writers, developers, musicians etc. the ability to get their work out there WITHOUT the costs of printing, distribution, production, packaging, and all that other shit that the average joe CAN'T AFFORD.

I've bought games and music from independent artists who are good.

"Um, no. . .you don't. It isn't illegal to do something that's within your "rights"; you're clearly mistaking the word "right" for the word "ability". Just because I'm "able" to run down the block naked doesn't mean I have the "right" to do so. "

This is a free country. You have the right to download what you want, to walk down the block naked, or even spit in the face of a cop. The difference is you will also suffer the consequences of your actions if caught.

>maybe people will examine some of the most popular arguments in support of piracy

Your thread is titled "SOPA" but you focus on piracy alone. You might want to rename it to "piracy" because you have not addressed the arguments that are used against SOPA, which from reading what you wrote, apparently agree with.

>why the end argument on your side always ends up being one of "well, I just don't give a shit and neither does anybody else". Apathy.

This is not my argument, this is reality. What you are proposing is a perfect disney like world where the handsome prince meets the beautiful princess and live happily ever after. This is far from how the world really works. Again, i'm not trying to be a dick here, i'm just stating the reality of things.

>It's been fun, and I appreciate that both of us were able to debate in a relatively civil manner.

Once in a while it is fun to have a civilize debate, amidst the 90% trolling that occurs on this board. If you're done, then i guess we might see each other again later on. If you want to continue addressing points, i'm down to do that too. Peace

that pisses me off! that crap shut down e621 i get a lot of my good porn from there!

>>4826

Well, I'll just say that I believe SOPA is relevant to piracy in general because it's brought the issue to the forefront of a lot of people's minds for the first time in quite a while, which is the perfect time to have a real discussion about piracy and it's impact. As far as point/counterpoint is concerned though I'm done. I'm not going to use this as cheap shot to get the last word in either (which is why I won't be counter-pointing your last arguments). it was good debating instead of dealing with trolls, I just see no point in continuing this because we're getting nowhere and at this point we are going over the same things over and over again, we could do this forever. A good 60% of our argument seems to be based on a mis-interpretation of what the other person is actually saying and we both fundamentally agree on two things: piracy is wrong and SOPA isn't the answer. However, on the issues of HOW to handle piracy, If it should or needs to be handled, whether or not we CARE that's it's wrong, and if it's a problem that actually has an impact we disagree completely, and that's fine, we don't all need to reach the same conclusions on everything. Maybe we'll meet again in another thread about a controversial topic somewhere (who knows, we may even be on the same side about that subject). Peace.

>>4831
It dose suck about happened to e621.That's why furrys where created

Internet->Internet Threaded->No furry porn->Furry rage->problem fixed.

*threatened*

>>4831

It's time to start killing the u.s. politicians. Let's start with sarah palin

>>4838
she's agents gays not furrs

ohh i think that if she knew this whole sub culture existed she would not be very happy.

Mega Upload News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-16642369

Mike Mozzart was right ~
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJIuYgIvKsc

>>4849

That's so stupid. What about all those legit users of it? The war on piracy is like the war on drugs. It's impossible to win. It's funny how they have no clue that there's a lot of people who still trade the "old" way, sites that do mail trades and sells, mirc, newsgroups, thousands of other trade clients, etc. Take down one site, 20 more pop up. Piracy for life muthafuckas.

>>4849
http://documents.latimes.com/justice-department-indictment-file-sharing-site-megaupload/

Here is the indictment for megaupload.

I don't buy music
I don't buy movies
I don't read
Dose buying old PS 1 games from comic shops and buying games from gog count?

In all seriousness it's nice to see the fawke face guys getting on top of it,If they really can do hackzor wizard magic they claim ill believe that they are fighting for our freedoms and not their dorito luv'n,mountain dew driken interests.

before they never stop sopa in the first place

Good By Dropbox they they got them shut down and I cant get my stuff out again!